Microsoft: Xbox One DRM has a "lot of advantages"

Amir0x

Banned
You need to get out more.


At the end of the day, this is nothing more that an annoyance.

Not that I need to justify how I spend my time, but I'm a prolific summarizer... it's an incredibly soothing practice for me. I do it reflexively whenever I think there is a good point to be made, I start collecting evidence for it. It takes no time if I do it as I browse neoGAF naturally.

It's also how I choose to spend my time now, because I spent the year quitting my hardcore drug addiction and I've had to lose some bad friends in order to stay away, so I have more free time recently. I hope this suits the time police :p
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
I'm not gonna defend MS but I think the reason Xbox users like myself are indifferent to this is because:

- I buy my games new (not at $60 mind you, if your willing to wait a few weeks there is usually a pretty substantial discount. Only pay $60 for games I really want day one.)

-I'm connected to the internet 95-98% of the year.

-(Personal reason) I hate gamestop and I feel the used game market at gamestop, best buy, etc. is a scam. They give you like 10 bucks for your game and then resell it for $55

Thing is it does not affect those places. It affects private selling, borrowing and renting of games. As I said before it is ironic how people who call gamestop evil/hate them are fine with solution is handing them a used game monopoly.

It will affect you eventually this only makes the price of gaming go way up. It pushes people out of the hobby and in time will shrink the market to the point where it crashes.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Not that I need to justify how I spend my time, but I'm a prolific summarizer... it's an incredibly soothing practice for me. I do it reflexively whenever I think there is a good point to be made, I start collecting evidence for it. It takes no time if I do it as I browse neoGAF naturally.

It's also how I choose to spend my time now, because I spent the year quitting my hardcore drug addiction and I've had to lose some bad friends in order to stay away, so I have more free time recently. I hope this suits the time police :p

We'll let you off with a warning this time, but the next time you build a giant masterful summary like the one earlier, you're in the slammer until next E3. :p
 
I'm not gonna defend MS but I think the reason Xbox users like myself are indifferent to this is because:

- I buy my games new (not at $60 mind you, if your willing to wait a few weeks there is usually a pretty substantial discount. Only pay $60 for games I really want day one.)

-I'm connected to the internet 95-98% of the year.

-(Personal reason) I hate gamestop and I feel the used game market at gamestop, best buy, etc. is a scam. They give you like 10 bucks for your game and then resell it for $55


You are like me: no used games, keeping them... so i really can`t understand why you want to support a company with online drm that makes sure you can`t play your games collection 8 to 10 years later.

It won`t matter that you are always connected with your best ever connection that exists when MS shuts down their online certification servers. When they do, the fun is over.
 

Relativ9

Member
Jesus, Microsoft's PR department must either be asleep on the job or made up of bafoons. Any idiot can see that mentioning or even hinteing at DRM with acutally putting gamers fears to rest with solid info is only going to make things worse. Case and point; here we are talking about MS screwing consumers over all again, even though we don't have any new info since the last time we were up in arms.
 
You are like me: no used games, keeping them... so i really can`t understand why you want to support a company with online drm that makes sure you can`t play your games collection 8 to 10 years later.

It won`t matter that you are always connected with your best ever connection that exists when MS shuts down their online certification servers. When they do, the fun is over.
This so much. I've been a firm voice against digital distribution and it's finally good to see other people get annoyed by it. Although I do wonder how many helped make this happen by supporting it in the past through other services and media.
 

Eusis

Member
I'm not gonna defend MS but I think the reason Xbox users like myself are indifferent to this is because:

- I buy my games new (not at $60 mind you, if your willing to wait a few weeks there is usually a pretty substantial discount. Only pay $60 for games I really want day one.)

-I'm connected to the internet 95-98% of the year.

-(Personal reason) I hate gamestop and I feel the used game market at gamestop, best buy, etc. is a scam. They give you like 10 bucks for your game and then resell it for $55
Most of us are online most of the time too, but we still saw what happened with Diablo 3 and SimCity, and those were from companies with a lot of online experience (all Blizzard games from the late 90s onwards were mainly renown for online multiplayer, and they run the biggest MMO in the world) or were at least very big companies, and so the idea of a whole console operating similarly is repugnant. Nevermind that I think unless you're counting smartphone usage being offline 2-5% of the time means we aren't yet an acceptable level of internet connectivity, nevermind supplying the internet is innately more delicate than supplying water or electricity. It's kind of like the reliability of hardware versus the reliability of software, where hardware just works once it's set up properly but software can still glitch out or whatever.

And I feel GameStop's at worst a necessary evil to tolerate for the sake of allowing us to not be dependent on their services running. Nevermind I'm not even sure how often your outlined situation happens, most of the games they're still selling for $55 they'll take for about $30 or at least $20, and $10's usually for games that are going down to $40 anyway. It's still a bum deal compared to selling for yourself and quite often it's simply not worth bothering with GameStop for trading in after a certain point, but it's not so bad on hot new games you don't feel like going through the trouble of selling, and personally I find the more useful for digging up older games used anyway, getting newer games used is kind of bullshit I think, and usually not a good enough deal anyway.
 

Nikodemos

Member
It won`t matter that you are always connected with your best ever connection that exists when MS shuts down their online certification servers. When they do, the fun is over.
And unlike, say, Valve, who might very well patch Steam out of their games if/when servers go down (they even said something to the extent), you just know MS is going to do no such thing, given their recent history (which could be summarised as "Don't care, had sex").
 

tekumseh

a mass of phermones, hormones and adrenaline just waiting to explode
I guess Phil Spencer is right; the Xbone DRM is full of advantages. Chief among them at this point seems to be the incredible savings I get from not buying one...
 
Thing is it does not affect those places. It affects private selling, borrowing and renting of games. As I said before it is ironic how people who call gamestop evil/hate them are fine with solution is handing them a used game monopoly.

It will affect you eventually this only makes the price of gaming go way up. It pushes people out of the hobby and in time will shrink the market to the point where it crashes.

How so? Microsoft isn't the only game in town. Competition from Nintendo and Sony will keep prices down and there is now a big chunk of the population who play games on ios who don't see any reason to pay 50/60 for a game. Year over year i've seen prices drop for brand new games at a faster rate. It's literally at the point where if your just willing to wait 2 weeks there will be a "bomba" sale somewhere for the new game.
 
And unlike, say, Valve, who might very well patch Steam out of their games if/when servers go down (they even said something to the extent), you just know MS is going to do no such thing, given their recent history (which could be summarised as "Don't care, had sex").

Valve's statement only applies to Valve's games, not all the games that they sell. That said, on a PC, you'll be able to crack all your games if push comes to shove in the worst case scenario. That's why I don't worry about it as much on the PC.
 

televator

Member
Xbone is 40X more powerful with cloud, and DRM has advantages..... We're gonna need a shovel -- no scratch that -- a bulldozer for all this BS.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
xbox_one_phil_spencer.0_cinema_640.0.jpg


'Hey Phil, should we give Last of Us only a 7.5?'

Lolygon and the crew of sycophants it hosts can't get more blatant.
 
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Hey guys have we worked out what we're doing yet?
 

Heretic

Member
Not that I need to justify how I spend my time, but I'm a prolific summarizer... it's an incredibly soothing practice for me. I do it reflexively whenever I think there is a good point to be made, I start collecting evidence for it. It takes no time if I do it as I browse neoGAF naturally.

It's also how I choose to spend my time now, because I spent the year quitting my hardcore drug addiction and I've had to lose some bad friends in order to stay away, so I have more free time recently. I hope this suits the time police :p

Very well. I apologize for that comment.
 

Tazo

Member
I used to work for EB Games and we all know how they make a large percentage of their profits from used games (and none of that profit goes to developers or publishers). Am I the only one here who is glad Microsoft is pushing always online DRM to kill the retailer's grip on the profits from the used game market?

On another note, if Sony doesn't follow suit I feel like they will suffer in the long term, and will be helping gaming retail to scam developers and publishers out of the money they deserve. I actually think the #PS4noDRM crowd is going to damage the industry if they succeed in persuading Sony to keep things as they've been.
 

MASB

Member
I used to work for EB Games and we all know how they make a large percentage of their profits from used games (and none of that profit goes to developers or publishers). Am I the only one here who is glad Microsoft is pushing always online DRM to kill the retailer's grip on the profits from the used game market?

On another note, if Sony doesn't follow suit I feel like they will suffer in the long term, and will be helping gaming retail to scam developers and publishers out of the money they deserve. I actually think the #PS4noDRM crowd is going to damage the industry if they succeed in persuading Sony to keep things as they've been.

Why don't you and people like you get some fucking perspective? OMG GameStop! Oh no! Oh no! You're so damned short-sighted. This is not all about the here and now. This is about history, rights, preservation and choice. If you think MS and other videogame companies give a damn about you either way, you're a loon.

This isn't just about the short-term profits of today (and it is yet to be proven that such DRM will help the industry. It is just as likely that the industry will stagnate and become more consolidated as people become more cautious in their purchases). This is also about 5 years, 10 years and more from now and your rights to continue to enjoy your games. To buy any game you want and to not worry about certification servers being shutoff. *gasp* I bought a SNES/PS2/Xbox 1 game off of eBay. How did Nintendo/Sony/MS profit from that? OMG eBay! Oh no! Oh no!

But I hate GameStop! I hate used games! Are you such a corporate sycophant that you hate yourself too? If so, okay. But why you and others expect the rest of us that don't loath ourselves and bootlick those who don't really have our interests at heart, to get on that train with you is beyond me and shows the worst kind of critical thinking (or lack thereof).

This obsession with getting money from used games is the basest nonsense! If the industry wants money from used games, why don't they setup an online store and sell them competitively themselves? What's stopping them? Buy used games and resell them themselves? That GameStop, eBay and every other Tom, Dick and Harry does. But that would require effort. Can't have that in the games industry!

Most of the automakers have certified used cars, from which they make additional money when they are sold. The automakers make money off those used cars, because they have added value to the deal beyond the original manufacture of the vehicle. The currently proposed DRM setup adds no value of any kind beyond taking away rights and then giving some of them back to you for a price. Compare the two! Automakers: Sell new car. Make money. Get used car, expend additional effort, make even more money! MS and current DRM proposal: Sell new game. Make money. Do jack squat with used games, do nothing to add value to said used games. Make even more money! Can you see the difference between the two methods? I can!

The fact that people like you praise these methods with a straight face, policies that hurt you at least partly as well, whether you acknowledge it or not, is just astounding to me. That you and others of the same bent seem puzzled that others don't think like yourself, it almost seems like a posture.

If I've offended anyone, I'm sorry. But I keep seeing these 'GameStop! Oh no! Oh no!" -like comments from people and their reasoning makes almost zero sense, even if you take things wholly from their perspective and use no others. If it doesn't hold up even to their own internal logic, what chance does it have to hold up to others who don't agree with them?

GameStop is not the fucking evil empire. If you don't want to do business with them, then don't. But cutting them off, cuts off everyone else whom you don't hate (unless you hate that people can sell their games on eBay, in which case, good luck to you). This desire to hurt yourself and others, just as long as GameStop is hurt, is kind of sad.
 

Joni

Member
Am I the only one here who is glad Microsoft is pushing always online DRM to kill the retailer's grip on the profits from the used game market?
The current solution as proposed has Microsoft working together with select retailers to organize used game sales. This means giving companies like GameStop complete control over the used game market. It will impact their profit in return for giving them a complete monopoly where they can give peanuts to consumers and raise prices as high as they want. I might be mistaken, but the retailer don't seem to be the victim.
 
You are like me: no used games, keeping them... so i really can`t understand why you want to support a company with online drm that makes sure you can`t play your games collection 8 to 10 years later.

It won`t matter that you are always connected with your best ever connection that exists when MS shuts down their online certification servers. When they do, the fun is over.

That's maybe true for the XB1 console itself.
But the games will probably still be connected to your account, which MS wants you to keep as long as possible (forever). So on a future platform (or service) that offers BC to XB1 games, you can play them w/o buying them again.
edit: actually, considering that future consoles might not even have disc drives anymore, it's the only way to do BC unless you pray that your decades old console will still work (plus being able to play on any kind of mobile device etc.)

At least that's how it should work.

If this DRM&PSN were available during PS1, all the games I bought back then would be connected to my PSN account. When they made the download/PSP versions of these old ROMs available, you would then just have to download the games you once already bought.
 

schuey7

Member
I think in the long term most people will just accept it.I mean Pc games have a lot of similar systems right now and the younger generation who are growing up with ios games that are non transferable will probably be more accepting of the system.

Personally except for the 24 hour online checks I don't have a problem with it . I just hope that we have workarounds for situations where we have to authenticate the disc on the
first install and the servers are down because these sort of situations can really piss me off.

I will wait till all the policies are cleared up before making my buying decision but if a new Crackdown is shown and its any good ,I will be there day one because at the end of the day it is the games that matter most.
 

Acheteedo

Member
Well, I fully expect new games to be cheaper then. Solid advantage, bravo Microsoft, you had an ace up your sleeve the entire time.

Totally going to happen.

No question.

Yup.
 

M3d10n

Member
It's absolutely hilarious that GamesTop haters completely fail to see that the XBone DRM is designed to grant GameStop a monopoly on used games, not kill them. It actually kills eBay, private selling, lending, giving, collecting and preserving, but not GameStop.
 

Geniuzz

Member
So, they say it has a lot of advantages and then neglect to name even one of those advantages. Gotta give it to MS... They know their PR spin! This is one of the most head scratching statements that said absolutely nothing! lmao

They might want to take heed of the words spoken in the Mystery of Chessboxing (Wu-tang): "The game of Chess is like a swordfight, you must think first, before you move!"
 

Feorax

Member
It's absolutely hilarious that GamesTop haters completely fail to see that the XBone DRM is designed to grant GameStop a monopoly on used games, not kill them. It actually kills eBay, private selling, lending, giving, collecting and preserving, but not GameStop.

Remember when we all thought the big battle this gen would be Digital v Retail (i.e Publishers v Gamestop)?

When exactly did the consumer become public enemy number 1?
 

LukeTim

Member
Hey, you know what! Private selling isn't even gone! You can still sell the worthless case, manual, and disc itself. That belongs to you. The "data" on the disc isn't yours though. So when you sell it, you just don't sell the part that isn't legally yours. Feel free to sell your case though, and the manual, and the box art, and even the disc art, they just don't get the game "data" itself. Private selling is still technically there. :)

So, when I buy it from a store, they don't have any possession of the data either, and therefore don't have a right to sell it to me?

When you privately sell a copy of a game, you are selling on whatever you bought in the first place... whether that's the disc + data, or the disc + the right to use the data... it doesn't fucking matter. You have a right to resell whatever you have already purchased and own. You own the license to play the game? You have the right to sell that license on to another person...
 

Coxy

Member
If this DRM&PSN were available during PS1, all the games I bought back then would be connected to my PSN account. When they made the download/PSP versions of these old ROMs available, you would then just have to download the games you once already bought.

and if this DRM was available on Atari 2600 and Commodore 64 I'd own absolutely nothing
 

SeanR1221

Member
Meh, I'm over bitching about it. In reality, to me, it's all not a big deal. I'm sure people will tell me I'm wrong and it's bad for consumers and question why I don't care, but as long as I get enjoyment out of it, it's fine with me. I mean, gaming is a side hobby anyway, I don't take it too seriously and don't want to get tied up in the politics of it.

If the Xbox one launches with Battlefield 4 and Assassins Creed IV and CoD Ghosts turn out good, I'll be there day 1.
 
It's absolutely hilarious that GamesTop haters completely fail to see that the XBone DRM is designed to grant GameStop a monopoly on used games, not kill them. It actually kills eBay, private selling, lending, giving, collecting and preserving, but not GameStop.

I don't even see how they are going to get this through the EU Courts?

MS: "The buyer can sell the game...but only to us..."

EU: "So you control the price at first sale of the product? you also control its sale on the secondhand market? and you control the price at which people can sell it back to you? and only you? plus you also control the amount that are available for sale?
 
This so much. I've been a firm voice against digital distribution and it's finally good to see other people get annoyed by it. Although I do wonder how many helped make this happen by supporting it in the past through other services and media.

Digital Distribution isn't inherently the problem, it's Microsoft's use of it. DD can exist aside physical copies.
 

3rdman

Member
Buy/make a decent PC people.

That is all.

This x1000.

However, I'd be Ok with this if this meant that my purchases would also be guaranteed across platforms and persistent. The complete and utter disregard to what we've already purchased (no BC) should ring a lot of bells with everyone here...Sony is not off the hook here either.
 

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
The "average gamer" I've seen has also roundly rejected the Xbox One, the second they're told about even a single piece of their anti-consumer news. The only problem is that Microsoft cleverly did not mention any of that during the hour and dropped those bombs in the immediate aftermath of the conference, so the most casual of gamers simply haven't become acquainted with the issue yet. But they will. They will. And it just so happens issues like these massively impact the casuals more than the hardcore, since hardcore are MORE likely to do things like buy games at full price and not buy used or borrow or lend.
Bravo. You nailed it once again.
 

kick51

Banned
Major Nelson must still be inquiring about answers as well. Damn that red tape at the own company he works at.
 

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
You need to get out more.


At the end of the day, this is nothing more that an annoyance.
An annoyance to you is a deal-breaker to another. Especially when that annoyance goes against consumers' rights.

And your first sentence was uncalled for.

I used to work for EB Games and we all know how they make a large percentage of their profits from used games (and none of that profit goes to developers or publishers). Am I the only one here who is glad Microsoft is pushing always online DRM to kill the retailer's grip on the profits from the used game market?

On another note, if Sony doesn't follow suit I feel like they will suffer in the long term, and will be helping gaming retail to scam developers and publishers out of the money they deserve. I actually think the #PS4noDRM crowd is going to damage the industry if they succeed in persuading Sony to keep things as they've been.
Yes, you are. I don't see the problem with the profits from a used copy going to the person or retailer that is selling them. The publisher already got their cut with the first sale of that copy, back when it was new.

Also, I believe you aren't aware that this will actually benefit Gamestop and other used games retailers. They are the only ones who will be able to sell them, by paying MS a certain fee, something individuals won't be able to do themselves. So MS won't be closing the seconhand market, it will in fact be turning it into an oligopoly of a few brick and mortar shops, the ones you so heavily despise. Forget about garage sales, or lending your games. Want to sell them or buy them used? Your only options are Gamestop, EB Games or similar stores.

I love how selling secondhand products is considered a scam now. And if the industry can't run a business without having to resort to screwing up customers' rights, then I hope it crashes and burns as soon as possible. That's not a healthy industry.
 

Binabik15

Member
I don't even see how they are going to get this through the EU Courts?

MS: "The buyer can sell the game...but only to us..."

EU: "So you control the price at first sale of the product? you also control its sale on the secondhand market? and you control the price at which people can sell it back to you? and only you? plus you also control the amount that are available for sale?

What if MS is actually an Illuminati ploy to funnel more money into Europe via lost lawsuits?

Milhousethroughthelookingglass.jpg
 
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