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[Last Hearth]

Two things:

From the POV of the characters, that requires you to believe Joffrey is illegitimate. Of course we know he is, but they have to assess the wortiness of the claim without having studied Mendel in High School or having seen Ned's/Jon's evidence.

From the POV of us readers, we know that power lies where men believe it lies. Robert usurped the throne, so who's to say Stannis is legitimately the heir? If you figure all bets are off, go with whomever you like. I mean, by modern sensibilities, succession and rule by right of kings and lineage is a load of crap anyway. Robb at least had people declare him king (although he was only in a position to be declared by his own birth in the first place).

But that's my point, modern rules of succession is not different, it's exactly the same.

If the president dies the vice president succeeds him. The only thing different with modernity is that the change of regime is different, we have elections rather than right of conquest. But rules of succession within a regime is still expected to be followed.

The Targaryens won a right of conquest 300 years ago, that's like saying Bush was the election in 2000 and 2004. But Obama won in 2008 and 2012, that's like saying the Baratheons took over by right of conquest. Once you lose by right of conquest you're done. You have no claim. Dany has no claim. Her only claim will be through another conquest (even she knows this, which is why she's building an army).

Stannis's claim is no different than Biden's would if the president dies, and his level of annoyance at the people who won't recognize this is every bit as deserved as Biden's would be if people acted to deny him the presidency.

When Robert died, given that he has no legitimate children, Stannis is the heir.

 

[Anton668]

She let Drogo kill his brother, who protected her for years, that's unacceptable. She is no queen of mine.

http://youtu.be/WtNHuqHWefU

 

[Jayof9s]

I miss that guy. He and Joffrey would have gone along well

I can just imagine them having an epic slap-fight over the Throne at least.

 

[EatChildren]

Uh oh...

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/ustv/s1...es-is-nearly-halfway-over-say-show-execs.html

Well, he's right, simply based on the adapted material. Seven books (two unwritten), currently adapting the third. Season four will finish that, putting them smack dab in the fourth book, which sits on and cross the halfway point of The Song of Fire and Ice odyssey.

He also notes:

"How long exactly that's going to take and what form it's going to take is obviously something that needs to be determined as we go."

Which is true. They could do it in seven, as he says. Or maybe it will be eight. Or maybe more. Will depend on how the story is being told, and how the ratings are going. If they hit season seven and the ratings are still as strong (or stronger) than always producers will happily greenlight the necessary series to finish the story.

Game of Thrones actually has the benefit of adapting a source material not created by the show runners. It ends how GRRM plans to, with his amount of story, not anybody else. So they cant go on forever even if they want.

 

[Cyan]

Team Stannis! Saw this list on another forum and well, facts are facts. It was a no spoilers thread and didn't see any book spoilers so here's a copy paste.

Top Reasons to be on Team Stannis:

Also, he gave this speech:

"Hey everyone, the Lannisters are inbred shitheads who conspire to murder everyone. Joffrey's head should be on a pike. My brother was killed, so the throne is by all accounts mine. So I'm going to take my gigantic fucking army and hot fire witch and sail directly to King's Landing and fuck all their shit. Come with me, or get fucked."

 

[Haly]

Stannis has a giant stick up his bum.

 

[Creamium]

btw, have you guys gone back and watched the s3 trailer? 'death is coming for everyone and everything' => cat & robb are shown. 'there's a beast in every man, and it stirs when you put a sword in his hand' => jaime. The hints were always there

 

[Liquidsnake]

So I guess no one will pay for what happened to Robb and his mom right?
Just like no one paid for Ned. What a joke, where is my redemption?

 

[mm04]

Well, he's right, simply based on the adapted material. Seven books (two unwritten), currently adapting the third. Season four will finish that, putting them smack dab in the fourth book, which sits on and cross the halfway point of The Song of Fire and Ice odyssey.

He also notes:



Which is true. They could do it in seven, as he says. Or maybe it will be eight. Or maybe more. Will depend on how the story is being told, and how the ratings are going. If they hit season seven and the ratings are still as strong (or stronger) than always producers will happily greenlight the necessary series to finish the story.

Game of Thrones actually has the benefit of adapting a source material not created by the show runners. It ends how GRRM plans to, with his amount of story, not anybody else. So they cant go on forever even if they want.

Just don't die, GRRM, before you complete the series!

 

[Vagabundo]

Stannis has a giant stick up his bum.

The red witch probably put some love beads up there.

She's a kinky one.

 

[iNvid02]

Just don't die, GRRM, before you complete the series!

he was looking well on conan, and he said he has a general idea of how it all ends. no idea if thats been communicated to the showrunners though

 

[jaxword]

So I guess no one will pay for what happened to Robb and his mom right?
Just like no one paid for Ned. What a joke, where is my redemption?

Just like in the real world, there is no redemption. Revenge only perpetuates a cycle of revenge.

 

[Zeliard]

he was looking well on conan, and he said he has a general idea of how it all ends. no idea if thats been communicated to the showrunners though

I think they've mentioned they know how it all ends, at least roughly.

 

[Moff]

he was looking well on conan, and he said he has a general idea of how it all ends. no idea if thats been communicated to the showrunners though

they know

and some of the actors, too
at lesat alfie allen said so in an interview, he just asked, and GRRM answered

 

[marrec]

People are shit with spoilers even when they think they're being vague. "OH MAN THAT TERRIBLE THING HAPPENED TO THE STARKS THAT EPISODE I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT. NO SPOILS THO." Well, shit, wonder what that could be? Facebook wouldn't shut up. Twitter wouldn't shut up. TV wouldn't shut up.

Never again.

Starks had to deal with Robb's raging morphine addiction, that's all.

 

[Cyan]

I think they've mentioned they know how it all ends, at least roughly.

They really ought to. Much easier to know what can be glossed over and what needs to be kept, easier to foreshadow and drop hints, etc.

 

[Ingeniero]

The one who abused her, molested her, and said the above GIF quote? He got what he deserved as well.

http://youtu.be/WtNHuqHWefU

Come on, he was a bad person ok, he mistreated Daenerys some times but he also protected her for years while she was a baby. Big brothers are like that, a bit though but loving too.

Team Stannis is the best for sure.

 

[Liquidsnake]

Just like in the real world, there is no redemption. Revenge only perpetuates a cycle of revenge.

No one can allow it to go unpunished. Or is that where we are.

 

[iNvid02]

I think they've mentioned they know how it all ends, at least roughly.

they know

and some of the actors, too
at lesat alfie allen said so in an interview, he just asked, and GRRM answered

ah well thats good to know then. still, to be on the safe side we need a backup of grrm's consciousness.

 

[Massa]

I think they've mentioned they know how it all ends, at least roughly.

D&D and another writer met with him before they started working on season 4 and they asked a whole bunch of questions. It was after that when we started hearing about 7 seasons, so I assume they have the entire show planned out already, regardless of the books.

 

[HyruleGuardian]

At this point I feel like I'm going to basically be saying this every other page...

JUST BECAUSE ROBB IS DEAD DOES NOT MEAN THE STARKS ARE FINISHED.

You guys realize that at this point in the story (in terms of the books) we're about 1/3rd of the way through?

You really think that with 2/3rds of the story left to tell that the Stark children are not going to make their mark?

It's amazing how much I vehemently disagree with the consensus.

---

Maybe it's because I've read the first 2 books that I feel differently from people who have not read any of the books though. The Stark children were always going to be the heart of the story.

Even Benioff and Weiss made a comment in the Season 1 DVD about the Stark children being the heart of the story going forward.

 

[Funky Papa]

JUST BECAUSE ROBB IS DEAD DOES NOT MEAN THE STARKS ARE FINISHED.

I'm sure Rickon will raise a new Northern army, mount Shaggydog and ride it into battle against Tywin.

 

[Liquidsnake]

I'm sure Rickon will raise a new Northern army, mount Shaggydog and ride it into battle against Tywin.

Tywin would be dead from old age by then

 

[Funky Papa]

Tywin would be dead from old age by then

That's totes happening in S4, tho.

 

[HyruleGuardian]

I'm sure Rickon will raise a new Northern army, mount Shaggydog and ride it into battle against Tywin.

I think the children are all going to go in different directions plot wise. (as if they haven't been already)

I don't see any "Stark army" happening anytime soon, but that doesn't mean the children are not still absolutely essential characters to what is going to be happening with the story going forward.

 

[Liquidsnake]

I think the children are all going to go in different directions plot wise.

I don't see any "Stark army" happening anytime soon, but that doesn't mean the children are not still absolutely essential characters to what is going to be happening with the story going forward.

So house Stark is essentially finished as a viable family. I can not accept this.

 

[Last Hearth]

So house Stark is essentially finished as a viable family. I can not accept this.

House Targaryen is still viable even though they have just one teenage girl who is in exile. The Starks still have 4 kids and 1 bastard.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

6-7 seasons is about right. We can't have Bran rolling around with a goatee and a Barry white voice. By that time they should be all well wrapping things up.

I'm guessing we get 8 seasons. They're already taking steps this season to condense material.

yep, it doesn't need to be any longer than that.

 

[HyruleGuardian]

So house Stark is essentially finished as a viable family. I can not accept this.

What does a "viable" family mean?

Right now it's a broken family. But I see the children finding their own way in the world and being absolutely essential to what will happen in the story going forward. And I do believe there's a very good chance of the Stark children finding some measure of justice and redemption and that House Stark will live on for thousands of years more.

 

[Berto]

House Targaryen is still viable even though they have just one teenage girl who is in exile. The Starks still have 4 kids and 1 bastard.

Don't they have Ned's brother? Or did he died in the first season? Don't remember.

 

[RedShift]

Not to mention that Umber guy seemed pretty neat, I can't see him siding with Bolton over the surviving Starks. Especially with Rickon headed that way. I read somewhere the actor who plays umber got his ear bitten off or something? I hope he makes a return next season.

 

[HyruleGuardian]

House Targaryen is still viable even though they have just one teenage girl who is in exile. The Starks still have 4 kids and 1 bastard.

Exactly.

Imagine the show had began when the Mad King still ruled Westoros.

Then her father was killed by the Usurper.

Then we had to sit through seasons of her on the run with Viserys.

Only to have her sold off to a savage like a slave.

Would you be counting the House Targaryen out of the picture? Based on the way you sound now, absolutely.

And yet we have FIVE Stark children to follow.

And as important a character as Dany is, the Stark children are the true heart of the story.

 

[Liquidsnake]

What does "viable" family mean?

Right now it's a broken family. But I see the children finding their own way in the world and being absolutely essentially to what will happen in the story going forward. And I do believe there's a very good chance of the Stark children finding some measure of justice and redemption and that House Stark will live on for thousands of years more.

Ok, this made me feel better. Thank you. You have given me what R.R. Martin could not.

Thank you.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Come on, he was a bad person ok, he mistreated Daenerys some times but he also protected her for years while she was a baby. Big brothers are like that, a bit though but loving too.

Team Stannis is the best for sure.

Really? I'm skeptical.

 

[kellycandthedragons]

lol @ Mance Rayder

Biggest casting disappointment so far.

Why cast such a brilliant actor in a 'nothing' role?

He's been in like, two episodes this season and done sod all.

Where's this so-called "biggest fire the north has ever seen"?

Patience: have you heard of it? If he just showed up with no characterization it'd be even worse. It's a nothing role RIGHT NOW. Who knows how that stuff with the invasion will go? Oh right, the writers of the show.

all of this, EVERYTHING is Sansa's fault.
never should have lied for that little shit.

Um I fail to see how it's Sansa's fault that Ned confronted Cersei with his knowledge. I don't understand how it's Sansa's fault that Bran caught them fucking. I don't see how it's Sansa's fault that Theon betrayed Robb and invaded Winterfell. I don't see how it's Sansa's fault the wildlings are attacking. I could go on.

The Starks were kings of the north before the Targaryen's came along.



Deserting the Wall is always punishable by death. No exceptions.

Not true. The commander even told Jon that if they beheaded everyone who ran away in the night, they'd have nobody left. And he knew Jon left with the intention of never coming back. Which is desertion. Yet he didn't kill him because he came back. How would it then make sense to kill him for leaving with the intention to come back, and then coming back? Besides, I imagine there will be a power grab among the few people who are left at the nights watch. The ones who can fight and take power will be the ones in power. Jon is probably the best fighter they have left, so it could come down to "obey me or get a sword through the gut." Plus he has more experience than most of the people there; they're criminals mostly. So it'll be either Jon, Sam, or the blind Targaryen man who becomes commander, I'd guess. And Jon is the most likely of those three.

 

[HyruleGuardian]

Don't they have Ned's brother? Or did he died in the first season? Don't remember.

Benjen Stark's whereabouts are unknown.

Could be simply dead, could be a zombie, or could be very much alive.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

She let Drogo kill his brother, who protected abused the living shit out of her her for years

FTFY

I do miss Harry Loyd, though. He was great in the role of that little shit.

And the horses too!

 

[Ferrio]

Come on, he was a bad person ok, he mistreated Daenerys some times but he also protected her for years while she was a baby. Big brothers are like that, a bit though but loving too.

He didn't protect her out of love, he protected her because she was his only asset.

 

[Amey]

Not to mention that Umber guy seemed pretty neat, I can't see him siding with Bolton over the surviving Starks. Especially with Rickon headed that way. I read somewhere the actor who plays umber got his ear bitten off or something? I hope he makes a return next season.

Isn't he the one who 1st came up with 'King in the North' chant.

 

[Zeliard]

And the horses too!

Heh, I need to watch Season 1 again.

 

[Liquidsnake]

FTFY

I do miss Harry Loyd, though. He was great in the role of that little shit.



And the horses too!

Lol.

 

[Amey]

He didn't protect her out of love, he protected her because she was his only asset.

And future wife.. but wedding her to Drogo was more profitable.

 

[big ander]

Come on, he was a bad person ok, he mistreated Daenerys some times but he also protected her for years while she was a baby. Big brothers are like that, a bit though but loving too.

right, loving

 

[Snake]

Stannis has a giant stick up his bum.

That stick is his by right.

 

[Lothar]

6-7 seasons is about right. We can't have Bran rolling around with a goatee and a Barry white voice. By that time they should be all well wrapping things up.

You realize that seasons 3 and 4 are both one book, right? And there are going to be 7 books. If there are only 7 seasons, then the final book won't get a season.

 

[HyruleGuardian]

You realize that seasons 3 and 4 are both one book, right? And there are going to be 7 books. If there are only 7 seasons, then the final book won't get a season.

From what I understand Season 4 is likely to start incorporating events both from Books 4 and 5 (which take place simultaneously for the most part).

 

[Ogni-XR21]

You realize that seasons 3 and 4 are both one book, right? And there are going to be 7 books. If there are only 7 seasons, then the final book won't get a season.

But legend has it that later books might be better adapted in less than one season. Only heresay on my part though.

 

[Balgosa]

For all you Game of Thrones fans, I give you "Game of Thrones Ultimate Birthday Rap Battle!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEhByk4Icg

WARNING: If you're not caught up with the show, don't watch it!

 

[Gila]

Season 1 question:

What does "Baelor" mean? I know it's the name of the episode, but why does Ned shout it at Yoren? Was it like a code word that they set up in a situation like this that he would protect Arya in case Ned was coming to his death?

 

[DrForester]

Season 1 question:

What does "Baelor" mean? I know it's the name of the episode, but why does Ned shout it at Yoren? Was it like a code word that they set up in a situation like this that he would protect Arya in case Ned was coming to his death?

The Great Sept of Baelor is the place where Ned was killed. Arya was perched at the base of his statue.