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[IntelliHeath]

Late to the question giving here and this thread sort of exploded while I was at work so apologies if these have already been asked:

1. Have there been any 2nd/3rd party collaborations with any previous Smash game that have fallen through before? Such as Rare and/or Silicon Knights content possibly being in Melee or a scrapped 3rd party rep for Brawl? (I.e. was Banjo/Joanna Dark/Eternal Darkness characters planned for Melee or something like Mega Man for Brawl?)

I heard that Banjo was supposed to be in Melee but it didn't happened because of terrible communication between Rare ltd and Nintendo/Hal Lab. Again, it is just a rumor.

2. Has every cut character that was planned for SSB64/Melee made it into the series by now (I.e. Bowser/Mewtwo/Dedede were planned for 64, supposedly Wario at one point for Melee, etc.)?

3. Why was Wario Land/World completely snubbed in Brawl?

4. Can Ganondorf have a proper moveset and have his old one given to someone like Black Shadow now?

2. I recalled that there are speculation that Wolf, Bowser, Mewtwo and Dedede were left out due to time for 64 and two of them made into Melee and rest of them in Brawl. Pit have been rumored ever since 64 but he finally got in Brawl.

However this time we have solid evidence which is character codes in Brawl's disc.

Edited: I have seen many new faces in this thread so it will be my last time trying to get more contestants in this thread. I noticed that people like to speculating who would shown up in SSB4. It's perfect for some people here. If you want to win some kind of prize by predicting the roster in SSB4, then click here - SSB4 Roster Prediction Contest

 

[Rewrite]

Fuck yes!!

 

[PorygonVandal]

lol our coach really became a worlwide meme xD

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I heard that Banjo was supposed to be in Melee but it didn't happened because of terrible communication between Rare ltd and Nintendo/Hal Lab. Again, it is just a rumor.

I know there was definitely a significant amount of Rare-related content cut from Melee since Loveday said as much during a now lost Scribes (Rare's old letters section on their website) response to someone asking about what Rare's involvement with the first two Smash games was. He didn't get into anymore detail than there being ton of Rare trophies he wrote the descriptions for and being weirded out when they weren't in the final product, but I attributed it to the deadly combo of Melee being a very rushed dev-cycle than anything bad between Rare/HAL at the time. The in-house MK team was able to get the CGI model of the DKC DK from Rare for Mario Kart 64 back in the mid-90's for instance.

I brought up SK since while Nintendo owns ED Sakurai's shown previous times he'll usually try and contact the relevant people to a franchise before he does too much with them, unless it's an unavoidable situation like Diddy Kong in Brawl (who's remarkably similar to his DKC incarnation despite Rare being long out of the picture IMO). It's why nobody AC-related is playable in Brawl (director of that franchise asked Sakurai to leave them out) and how they were able to use Sheik's scrapped TP-design.

2. I recalled that there are speculation that Wolf, Bowser, Mewtwo and Dedede were left out due to time for 64 and two of them made into Melee and rest of them in Brawl. Pit have been rumored ever since 64 but he finally got in Brawl.

However this time we have solid evidence which is character codes in Brawl's disc.

Edited: I have seen many new faces in this thread so it will be my last time trying to get more contestants in this thread. I noticed that people like to speculating who would shown up in SSB4. It's perfect for some people here. If you want to win some kind of prize by predicting the roster in SSB4, then click here - SSB4 Roster Prediction Contest

Yeah, I think it may have been Snakey who was theorising that? I know Bowser/Dedede/Mewtwo are definitely brought up on either the original or Melee's Dojo as being planned for the first game and on Melee's Dojo when discussing the clones Sakurai said it either came down to six clones or one original character and used Dedede and Wario as examples.

also dang that's some snazzy Zelda art for a prize

 

[EmCeeGramr]

progoma;

I see.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

YOU DIDN'T SEE SHIT

Spoiler

I have no clue how a typo of 'original' came across as progoma

 

[MCN]

Super Smash Bros Multi.

Highlights the multi-format nature of the game, plus the focus on multiplayer. Also, multiple characters from multiple franchises fighting in multiple stages.

 

[Mr. Fix]

The real megaton is when the 5th character jumps into the fray.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

If the single-player doesn't consist of Nintendo inspired levels, enemies, bosses and music, I'll be pissed.

Subspace Emissary was fucking creepy and ugly.

 

[superpickleman]

Damn you E3, getting me excited about a tuesday of all days.

I'M READY!!!

Spoiler

I'm not ready!

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I see.

progoma

pro-gohma

oh my god

Wii U Tech Demo link confirmed for Smash

 

[DICKS AHOY]

If the single-player doesn't consist of Nintendo inspired levels, enemies, bosses and music, I'll be pissed.

Subspace Emissary was fucking creepy and ugly.

I really hope Sakurai's blog post awhile ago about wanting more control over his stories leads to the inevitable SSE2 being more like Uprising's campaign (which he personally wrote) and less like the original SSE, which was largely outsourced.

progoma

pro-gohma

oh my god

Wii U Tech Demo link confirmed for Smash

clearly I was hinting at this instead

Thinking about it Gohma probably would've made the most sense as a Zelda-boss in 1-player mode. Isn't he/she one of the most common bosses in the series?

 

[Sheroking]

I completely forgot about subspace emissary. Wow.

 

[KojiKnight]

Ohhh shit.... I just realized that E3 is on the tuesday that my cable company is coming out to upgrade our service... T_T Hope they get in and out fast or that 90mbps won't mean shit!

 

[skull kid]

Dude it's not just rust, Brawl is slooooooooow. :lol

first thing I thought of when I read that, lol

 

[Hot Coldman]

I really hope Sakurai's blog post awhile ago about wanting more control over his stories leads to the inevitable SSE2 being more like Uprising's campaign (which he personally wrote) and less like the original SSE, which was largely outsourced.

Everyone has support characters who talk NON-STOP constantly

except Samus

 

[Zonic]

If the single-player doesn't consist of Nintendo inspired levels, enemies, bosses and music, I'll be pissed.

Subspace Emissary was fucking creepy and ugly.

Yes, hoping they go back to the Adventure Mode from Melee, traveling from different Nintendo worlds. Now if they can take that & flesh out the story, I think there's some potential for some single player content.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The problem with SSE is that those mechanics aren't fun to use in a level-based campaign.

I mean, what can you really do with it besides move forward and beat things up?

 

[Azure J]

Dude it's not just rust, Brawl is slooooooooow. :lol

I was messing around with it recently after about 2 years of playing Marvel and talking with a net friend getting into Melee. I can't believe I ever thought the game was fast. It's weird.

 

[ffdgh]

Melee based adventure mode is all I need. Expanded of course.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Well SSE fucks around too much with the character's regular stats and removes the ability to grab regular enemies and other core-Smash skills (don't think Kirby's suck/Yoshi's tongue works on drones in SSE either) for it to be conclusive as to whether Smash as a regular platformer/brawler hybrid would work or not.

Seriously, not being able to grab primids or whatever their names was often meant I couldn't effectively crowd control them and hence would pretty quickly get mobbed by a dozen or so if I wasn't playing multiplayer.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I want more bosses. I'd be happy if Adventure Mode was a glorified boss rush.

Fighting Rayquaza was the best part of the SSE. More of that, please. And no original bosses if you can't design something as simple as Master Hand any more.

 

[Village]

What sells a fighting game after the fighting is its content

4
needs

NEEEDS a story mode.

It gets people interested in characters in and things, and crossover fighting games are all about character interaction,

 

[Morts]

I hope they don't go nuts with 3rd party characters. Ideally they'd keep Snake and Sonic and only add one or two more.

Also a Metroid Prime 3 Skytown level please.

 

[Cameron122]

Story mode should be structured like a jrpg. Over world, text everywhere, bonus bosses, soul devouring mini games. Gear are alternate costumes. Random battles are mooks from respective Nintendo IP.

 

[Justzisguyukno]

The real megaton is when the 5th character jumps into the fray.

I'm counting on this happening. Or some sort of "God Mode" for the tablet holder.

 

[IntelliHeath]

The real megaton is when the 5th character jumps into the fray.

That would be Mega Man.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

I want more bosses. I'd be happy if Adventure Mode was a glorified boss rush.

Fighting Rayquaza was the best part of the SSE. More of that, please. And no original bosses if you can't design something as simple as Master Hand any more.

Ghetsis with Kyurem would make for an amazing boss so long as they got Jamieson Price to voice him.

Other potentially amazing bosses:

Cacletta (Mario & Luigi)
Grima (Fire Emblem)
Aparoid Pigma (Star Fox)
Nightmare (Metroid)
Rhombulan Mothership (Elite Beat Agents)
King Boo (Luigi's Mansion 2)
Fusion Dragon (Golden Sun)
Shake King (Wario Land)

Hades is not on the list because he will be a playable character.

 

[Kjellson]

Melee based adventure mode is all I need. Expanded of course.

No thanks. Trying to get all the Adventure Mode trophies was the most boring shit ever.

 

[Hot Coldman]

crossover fighting games are all about character interaction,

This has never been true. Unless trading blows counts as character interaction.

It took Capcom until the sixth game in the Vs. series to have the characters actually call their team-mates/opponents by name.

 

[Nocturnowl]

To this day i'm still not sure what compelled me to beat SSE on Intense but I did it.
At least in doing this I actually got to make use of the whole sticker mechanics as well as throw together a team of my choosing for any stage, so as you can see i'm scraping the bottle of the barrel for good things that came from doing this, let me tell you the bosses in intense boss rush are actually easier than intense difficulty ones in the main mode.

I think they should take the same basic idea but shorten it in length, actually theme it with Nintendo worlds, a simple plot instead of the strangely serious and kind of unclear plot they went with in Brawl, throw in some sort of EX version of the mode in case anyone wants more from it and there we go.

I want more bosses. I'd be happy if Adventure Mode was a glorified boss rush.

Fighting Rayquaza was the best part of the SSE. More of that, please. And no original bosses if you can't design something as simple as Master Hand any more.

It still kind of bugs me that Rayquaza popped out of a lake of all places, next game will have Groudon falling out the sky and Kyogre bursting out of the earth.

 

[ffdgh]

They could do the same thing they did for brawl and just make trophies only require classic and all star.

 

[Darth_Caedus]

It still kind of bugs me that Rayquaza popped out of a lake of all places, next game will have Groudon falling out the sky and Kyogre bursting out of the earth.

LOL. Great post! One of the best post I have seen on here.

 

[qq more]

What sells a fighting game after the fighting is its content

4
needs

NEEEDS a story mode.

It gets people interested in characters in and things, and crossover fighting games are all about character interaction,

No thanks. They did that with SSE and it was a waste of development time. Smash Bros doesn't "need" a story mode. People want X beat up Y. That's what we all play Smash Bros for.

 

[skull kid]

No thanks. Trying to get all the Adventure Mode trophies was the most boring shit ever.

I enjoyed it, all of the trophy hunting. Took me long enough to get diskun.

 

[vareon]

Ghetsis with Kyurem would make for an amazing boss so long as they got Jamieson Price to voice him.

Other potentially amazing bosses:

Cacletta (Mario & Luigi)
Grima (Fire Emblem)
Aparoid Pigma (Star Fox)
Nightmare (Metroid)
Rhombulan Mothership (Elite Beat Agents)
King Boo (Luigi's Mansion 2)
Fusion Dragon (Golden Sun)
Shake King (Wario Land)

Hades is not on the list because he will be a playable character.

No way, we need him at the credits screen, where he laughs and rips the credits screen.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I really hope Pandoras Tower gets a rep or at least a stage. The final battle arena would be a cool stage along with this song for sure.

http://youtu.be/mJD3XIQaIg4

Also while I'm here playing any brawl match to "calling to the night is godly"
http://youtu.be/uBvOK2ebPBo

It's just so different from the norm that it comes full circle into being awesome for a match. Me and my buds used to play it on custom stages.

 

[NeonZ]

The problem with SSE is that those mechanics aren't fun to use in a level-based campaign.

I mean, what can you really do with it besides move forward and beat things up?

Well, the Great Labyrinth area showed that it didn't need to be linear, and it even had some puzzles (the forest area mimicked Zelda's Dark/Light world mechanics with the way you needed to destroy parts of one area to progress through its mirror version). They could always expand on that.

If there were a way to swap characters during a stage, they could also have included some character specific challenges, like the ones in the old Break the Targets/board the platforms. It also could help if the items had been actually part of the level design, rather than random drops. That way, they could design part of the stages after using certain items in specific ways, rather than just randomly dropping them all over the world with little point.

Overall though, I really think there should have been a few smaller adventures, rather than a single big one, kind of like Kirby Super Star. At the very least, the Great Labyrinth should have been a separate mode, rather than tacked on right before the final battle.

 

[Zonic]

You Will Know Our Names from Xenoblade NEEDS to be selectable music. Heck, I just wanna see Xenoblade represented in some way.

Think there'll be some bonus for owning both versions, like some kind of Wii U/3DS connectivity?

 

[ScraftyDevil]

No way, we need him at the credits screen, where he laughs and rips the credits screen.

That'll be how he's unlocked.

You think you've beaten the game, when all of a sudden you hear the deliciously hammy voice of Scott Bullock cry out "Not so fast! Challenger approachiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing~!"

Then Hades tears through the screen and you fight him on top of the scrolling credits while his epic theme plays. Losing means you need to play the final stage again, but victory unlocks him as playable.

 

[Jawmuncher]

You Will Know Our Names from Xenoblade NEEDS to be selectable music. Heck, I just wanna see Xenoblade represented in some way.

Think there'll be some bonus for owning both versions, like some kind of Wii U/3DS connectivity?

Personally all of operation rainfall games should be represented personally. Also I'm hoping for connectivity as well.

 

[Platy]

3. Why was Wario Land/World completely snubbed in Brawl? In a series that has no qualms acknowledging tons of stuff from Rare's DK games (and even their non-DK games in the history part of Brawl's vault) it comes across as a bit bizarre to ignore the existence of such a large part of a character.

I like to think that Brown and Green is a reference to the GB green color

 

[IntelliHeath]

 

[Village]

No thanks. They did that with SSE and it was a waste of development time. Smash Bros doesn't "need" a story mode. People want X beat up Y. That's what we all play Smash Bros for.

Cross over games are about character interaction.

Story mode helps with that.

Fighting games need extra content. With out it the experience is boring.

Story mode facilitates both of those things.

So yes.

Yes it does NEED a story mode.


The fun thing about marvel 3 and injustice is that the character actually interact with one another.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[RawkHawk2010]

You Will Know Our Names from Xenoblade NEEDS to be selectable music. Heck, I just wanna see Xenoblade represented in some way.

Think there'll be some bonus for owning both versions, like some kind of Wii U/3DS connectivity?

yes yes yes yes yes.

The music warrants an Xenoblade stage alone.

 

[Currygan]

so, I was wondering how much the 3DS version is going to sell; you guys think it could become a Pokemon-sized phenomenon?

 

[qq more]

Cross over games are about character interaction.

Story mode helps with that.

Fighting games need extra content. With out it the experience is boring.

Story mode facilitates both of those things.

So yes.

Yes it does NEED a story mode.

It doesn't "need" it. How many people are going to care so much about story mode when most of the playtime is spent on multiplayer matches?

Brawl already did the story mode and look at how that turned out.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Have we talked about if characters should be unlocked from the get go?

Part of me wants it. Just recently wanted to play brawl with buds but the Wii we had, had no save. So we were limited until a buddy threw a save onto a SD card.
I've been thinking if anything have characters unlocked but if they do include alternate outfits, have those unlockable instead.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I like to think that Brown and Green is a reference to the GB green color

That seems really reaching though when that's his default costume in almost everything, even outside his own games :V

I mean he barely even has his shoulder barge (vastly prefer how it works in Project M), the rest of his moveset aren't really taken from any of his games and trophy/sticker/music-wise nothing from Land or World is acknowledged at all. It's not like they're my favorite games or anything, but it just strikes me as weird they'd pretend Wario only started existing when Wario Ware was made and it was all the weirder since by the time Brawl came out that sub-series' popularity was already starting to dwindle.

I can't think of any other character they effectively snubbed half their history over for seemingly no reason. They even reference Mother/Earthbound Zero despite Mother 2/Earthbound effectively replacing it quite a bit!

 

[Galang]

That'll be how he's unlocked.

You think you've beaten the game, when all of a sudden you hear the deliciously hammy voice of Scott Bullock cry out "Not so fast! Challenger approachiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing~!"

Then Hades tears through the screen and you fight him on top of the scrolling credits while his epic theme plays. Losing means you need to play the final stage again, but victory unlocks him as playable.

This needs to happen. I will actually be surprised if this doesn't happen because its just that awesome. A big missed opportunity if it isn't. Need to go play uprising again