Rising_Hei
Member
And i think that what Ms did when they were doing good was the "trojan horse" tactic.
Eurogamer Opinion - Microsoft kills game ownership and expects us to smile
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- Start date
And i think that what Ms did when they were doing good was the "trojan horse" tactic.
Steam was and is a must have for PC. PC would be dead without stuff like Steam, Origin or Battle.net. It would be way to easy to piracy on PC without it and the PC needed a place where a big community can easy play with each other and Publisher can easy Sell there Games.
And Steam is in competition with other Sellers, xblive is not. Can i buy cheap X1 games on greenmangaming or a similar site in the future?
And PC games are backwards compatible for forever, it feels more like i have the game for forever. And i still have all the PC advantages with Modding my Games and use all the PC Programs while playing etc.
And i dont need to pay (xblive Gold) to play Online on Steam. The X1 is an always Online console with a paywall Online playing... thats just crazy.
X1 has only all the disadvantages of Steam without any of the advantages, beside i can start every game without changing a Disc.
And Steam is in competition with other Sellers, xblive is not. Can i buy cheap X1 games on greenmangaming or a similar site in the future?
And PC games are backwards compatible for forever, it feels more like i have the game for forever. And i still have all the PC advantages with Modding my Games and use all the PC Programs while playing etc.
And i dont need to pay (xblive Gold) to play Online on Steam. The X1 is an always Online console with a paywall Online playing... thats just crazy.
X1 has only all the disadvantages of Steam without any of the advantages, beside i can start every game without changing a Disc.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Totally agree... and I have not paid that price... aside from the occasional free or "practically giving it away" pricing.
Unknown One
Member
Console wars batch. A lot of them won't make it.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
I'd wager not.
j0hnny_385
Member
I (personally) don't have any objections to Steam DRM. Trading in digital games is not something I ever expected that I would be able to do. So this "restriction" is in the system intrinsically and expected.
But Xbone's DRM is something else completely - when talking about physical media - since I didn't expect that I would be able to trade XBL titles
Decades of game lending/reselling is now put to a stop and MS introducing disc==download equivalency irks people by default, by right.
I think this generation (especially it's start) is going to be a clusterfuck on many fronts.
I didn't mind paying for Gold because at the time it did present the premiere online experience on consoles. But over the years, with rising competition from PSN and Nintendo's online service, they haven't done anything to make the experience have any added value beyond adding apps you could get for free anywhere else. I'll be sure to cancel my subscription before the auto-renewal this year; I've come to see how lethargic and complacent XBL has become.
So what's the best solution here?
1. A digital store with all the benefits of digital - including cheaper prices (lol, no box+shipping) and steam-like-deals and so on. Locked to your account, no resale.
2. Discs that still work like before - you can only play these games with the disc in drive - full resale etc.
Should consoles have two different types of games, forever divided?
1. A digital store with all the benefits of digital - including cheaper prices (lol, no box+shipping) and steam-like-deals and so on. Locked to your account, no resale.
2. Discs that still work like before - you can only play these games with the disc in drive - full resale etc.
Should consoles have two different types of games, forever divided?
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Aretak
Member
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
I don't see why not. Games quickly go down in price at retail as well. I have around one hundred Xbox 360 retail games, all bought new, and cca. 80% of them bought at $20 or less.
But once we get rid of retail entirely (I believe physical copies of games will become increasingly irrelevant as this generation matures, and completely absent from the next one), there's going to be even more maneuvering space, unprecedented levels of it. We won't get there without making the first painful baby steps, however, and that's where we are at the moment.
We have to know what the options are. By the sounds of it, ms's options are to either engage in the restricted, drm-ed system for used games or block them altogether. If sony's options include the option to do nothing and leave things as they are that would at least be some improvement... It gives customers some power to pressure pubs. MS is covering pubs backs by not giving them the option to actually opt out entirely. What we considered 'bad' before - the restricted trade system - has become the 'good' option for pubs on ms's system, vs the other alternative.
It's disingenuous to say that an opt in system elsewhere must be the exact same as this one. What opting in and opting out actually means can be very different from system to system, as can the method of drm wrapped around it all. I hope so anyway.
DangerMouse
Member
I hope I do, I guess I probably should have waited until after the console launches where things get heated.
Unknown One
Member
Wait until the cards is delt. We'll find out Monday. Well Danger just watch how you post. Don't troll, cause flamewars, and be respectful. Also follow the policies. Avoid memes because there is a lot of banned ones to be on the safe side.
Junior being banned = permaban
Try to make it to being a regular member.
Edit: No scans are allowed as well.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
I don't know why people are comparing Steam to this.
Since the NES/Mastersystem I've been able to rent games for each generation of console up until current gen.
PC has had DRM and cdkeys for a long long time and historically you've never been able to rent or lend PC games that have keys and Steam is just an extension of this.
Since the NES/Mastersystem I've been able to rent games for each generation of console up until current gen.
PC has had DRM and cdkeys for a long long time and historically you've never been able to rent or lend PC games that have keys and Steam is just an extension of this.
We had a thread recently, which concluded that offline mode was forever, after first registration, except for a few bug issues.
Miles Quaritch
Member
It's disingenuous to pretend it's the same. It absolutely isn't.
Steam being on an open platform has led to a number of competitors being created which means better prices for the consumer as they all jostle for the limited funds that are available.
Where's the competition coming from on the One? This is a barefaced and pretty disgusting attempt to monopolise an entire market, it doesn't deserve any kind of support. Regardless of if it doesn't affect you personally, think of the long term issues which will arise from this.
Games becoming unusable after the next generational transition due to servers being closed down, lack of ownership meaning that if a licence issue should arise, your $60 game could be lost forever and many, many other issues that have been outlined numerous times.
Also, as I understand it, Steam allows you back up your games and use them offline without ever having to worry about their licences being revoked, etc. The same is not true of the One. You're at the mercy of MS and should they decide it's time to move on/leave the market/whatever, you've just lost potentially thousands of dollars worth of games.
No daily check in requirement for one, and two the platform was completely open and there ultimately had to be a compromise between full freedom and developer/publisher protection, with Steam being the most reasonable option that actually worked. Microsoft's throwing these restrictions on BOTH physical and digital games because I guess they want to say "well fuck you now pay us."
EDIT: Don't forget we have alternatives to Steam on PC, albeit mainly for indie and older games. A lot of those you can get DRM free.
flipswitch
Member
If I don't use steam for more than 2 weeks I will have to log in again - that's all?.
Good article, I completely agree with the main point, which is my main point against all these flourishing policies: I do not want my ownership of games I buy and my availability to play them in the future to be compromised by corporation policies. So I will not participate into this.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
Remember in the early days before the Xbox launch, it was like "M$ making a game console? Do not want from that evil corporate machine ..."
But then they killed us with kindness. OG Xbox was thoughtfully designed with hardcore gamers in mind. 360 was similarly a great piece of kit (red ring, aside). The games and messaging were amazing.
But I feel like over the past few years.... They have become M$ again
This...
OG XBOX was a cool piece of kit, and the 360 a very welldesigned console (part from RROD).
But over the last years, with Kinect, and the loss of any interest for core game releases on MSs side I think this stance of theirs towards the noncasual crowd has waned.
CecilRousso
Member
People need to stop using Steam as an argument for why XBOX One is ok.
Yes, in some ways they are similiar. But:
*Steam is just one of many different systems for the PC.
*No is one forced to use it to sell games on PC
*No is forced to use any DRM on it. I have over 25 games in my Steam account that is completely DRM free.
*Steam was in many many cases an improvement from other DRM system that plagued the PC before.
*Steam is always getting new free features to compensate for asking the user to run the game through the client.
*Steam was for publisher and developers an answer for a market segment in decline, but the XBOX One follows the XBOX360, which is one the biggest already.
*Steam is working on a market that is always evolving. The number of options are growing all the time. If you buy games from the humble bundle store for example, you get both DRM free copies and steam keys.
*When has PC gamers ever had the same habit of reselling games?
*Game prices
*The offline mode hasn't been perfect, but is has never had any mandatory "every 24h" online checkins by design.
And Steam is 10 years old. When a similiar system launches this year, you expect it to be better, not worse.
Yes, in some ways they are similiar. But:
*Steam is just one of many different systems for the PC.
*No is one forced to use it to sell games on PC
*No is forced to use any DRM on it. I have over 25 games in my Steam account that is completely DRM free.
*Steam was in many many cases an improvement from other DRM system that plagued the PC before.
*Steam is always getting new free features to compensate for asking the user to run the game through the client.
*Steam was for publisher and developers an answer for a market segment in decline, but the XBOX One follows the XBOX360, which is one the biggest already.
*Steam is working on a market that is always evolving. The number of options are growing all the time. If you buy games from the humble bundle store for example, you get both DRM free copies and steam keys.
*When has PC gamers ever had the same habit of reselling games?
*Game prices
*The offline mode hasn't been perfect, but is has never had any mandatory "every 24h" online checkins by design.
And Steam is 10 years old. When a similiar system launches this year, you expect it to be better, not worse.
Shake Appeal
Member
The Steam comparisons are inane for all the reasons mentioned above, but also because Steam doesn't cripple existing functionality. Wholly digital licensing is a relatively new thing. Microsoft are deliberately removing functions and options that have been inherent to physical media since its inception. They're not just putting new rules on a new means of getting at content; they're slapping new rules on the old means.
I wish this whole junior mentality would stop. I don't generally post a lot and also don't know (or care) how you reach member status. I lurk an AWFUL lot and see just as many members saying silly things.
amstradcpc
Member
Exactly. PC has been like that forever. And we shouldn´t eat shit because the others eat shit, right?. What kind of argument is that?.
I think the bottom line is, as long as we're buying physical media we have an expectation of ownership over that physical media. That's how it works with everything else. Publishers need to get their shit together instead of expecting us to shore up their incompetence. They recognize their products aren't as competitive as they used to be, but instead of making a more competitively priced, alluring product, they expect us to subsidize their unwillingness to change.
Like, I'm not really am a guy to get on the publisher hate train but come on guys, you're fucking doing this to yourselves. Stop blaming the second hand market for your own ills. I can understand wanting a cut of the profits, but this is ridiculous.
Like, I'm not really am a guy to get on the publisher hate train but come on guys, you're fucking doing this to yourselves. Stop blaming the second hand market for your own ills. I can understand wanting a cut of the profits, but this is ridiculous.
Having never seen eurogamer take microsoft to task like this I'd say it's pretty significant. I know I was shocked.
Why not? Isn't that how movies work with video discs vs. digital videos? Isn't that how music works with music discs vs. digital music? Why should games be any different and if digital is the future, then why not just let physical discs die naturally as people go all in on digital?
Yeah same here, I joined in September but didn't really post, but I lurk almost everyday. It wasn't until recently I starting posting more.
I don't like the stigma that comes with the whole junior thing, but I do see where members are coming from.
Shake Appeal
Member
You could try reading even a handful of posts in the thread before blurting out your widely discredited opinion.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Remember in the early days before the Xbox launch, it was like "M$ making a game console? Do not want from that evil corporate machine ..."
But then they killed us with kindness. OG Xbox was thoughtfully designed with hardcore gamers in mind. 360 was similarly a great piece of kit (red ring, aside). The games and messaging were amazing.
But I feel like over the past few years.... They have become M$ again
It went to shit when J Allard, Peter Moore left. Okay, went to shit is a bit of an exaggeration, but that's pretty much the point where it all started to go downhill.
Phil Spencer is still there, but you have to wonder just how much influence he really has compared to say, Ballmer or Mattrick. And then there's Phil Harrison. This guy. I just don't know what to say, it's like he's a walking curse...
Harrison just needs to learn to shut his trap. How the fuck he has a job in PR, let alone the CV he has, is beyond me.
You mean it wasnt shit when they released a console with a failure rate that would make N Korea blush?
dragonelite
Member
Also realize Valve doesn't have to answer to anyone.
Are they still privately owned by Gabe?
I trust valve more then i do with the ms, sony and other big publishers.
As far as im concerned i will steer friends away from getting a xbone as long sony isn't making a radical u turn in the direction Microsoft is going.
Supposedly lots of Juniors were not just random posters on the internet, I'm assuming that means many bans will be handed out during and after E3 if bishop's right.
I'm very uncomfortable with the thought that the availability of games rests entirely on the goodwill of some companies. I regularly play games that are more than a decade old. What happens to this generation's XBox games when Microsoft decides keeping up their servers is no longer cost-effective, and pulls the plug? One can only guess.
Your obviously not reading the thread as multiple people have explained why it is NOT the same thing. I suspect you dont care about those facts though because they dont support your ignorant stance.
Seriously, are all these juniors astroturfers or what?
Dreams-Visions
Member
Good read.
Nintendo might be crawling from the WiiU grave thanks to Xbone/PS4.
I know I'm getting one for W101's release, not skipping a Kamiya game!
Night_Trekker
Member
Always remember, GAF: along with contrarians and fanboys, some of these posters defending the Xbox One are probably viral marketers, too.
That's the only explanation I can think of to explain their behavior.
That's the only explanation I can think of to explain their behavior.
I believe it allows you to sign into up to 5 devices and access your content, same thing with the windows store and I assume google play.
Windom Earle
Member
MS can thank Adam Orth that he softened some of the initial backlash. Not nearly enough though.