Support NeoGAF

[Pristine_Condition]

Bramwell's piece is great, but his comparison to iTunes is a little lacking.

On iTunes, I can play a game I bought years ago on my 3G on my iPhone 5. I don't even have to uninstall it on the old device. In fact, I can put that game on any and all iOS devices I own, and they could be played on all those devices simultaneously. There is no "home" or "main" iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad associated with my iTunes account. Every device I would own is treated the same way, with the same permissions. And those games don't go away if the Internet does.

iTunes is actually a shit-ton less of a hassle than this new MS scheme.

 

[The Librarian]

It's a good article. Sums up pretty much why I don't like the Xbox One.

I do, however, expect the PS4 to have much of the same policies as the Xbox One. The videogame industry doesn't have much competition when it comes to console manufacturers. Where else are gamers going to go? What choice do they have? Nowhere and none.

 

[gofreak]

Pretty much.

You're paying for permission to play a game for up to 24 hours, with the indefinite promise of refreshed permission at each interval. Your resell rights are either gone or restricted.

Between those two things, the concept of ownership is gone.

 

[DigitalRicket]

From what I'm reading off of news.xbox.com , there's absolutely no difference. The actual delivery mechanism is different (disc vs. download), everything else is the same (licensing, DRM, ...).

That's my point. Why aren't people getting upset that you can't resell that download code after activating the game on your system? Same rules set. Actually, even that's more restrictive than what Xbox One does.

Also, I don't think anyone should be defending Steam's policies by citing that they have cheaper games. The principle is still the same regardless of price. If you're for the policy then you should be for. If you're against then you're against. You can't straddle the fence just because it's convenient to you.

Not to mention that not everyone buy's all their Steam games from $5 sales. I know tons of folks who buy them brand new at the full price. Are they giving up their consumer rights then? Just curious how the mentality for this works.

I'm not for or against Xbox. Right now I'm biding my time on which system to get. I play the majority of my games on Steam, but I remember loving my time with the 360 when I had one (playing w/ friends and enjoying their exclusives). I'm not too huge on Sony's IPs which I why I'm not on the Playstation bandwagon even though they might end up doing something similar.

 

[Hasney]

Not only that, but you only need to connect to steam to download the title.

After that you can play offline for the rest of your natural born life.

Offline mode only seems to work for 2 weeks. Which is still 14 times better than MS.

http://forums.steamgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3129570
http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/828937979095845728/
http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/828937979328746762/

 

[Coolwhip]

The US? The country with the freest and fairest press in the world? With a long standing journalistic tradition of taking absolutely everyone to task?

I highly doubt it....

The problem with game 'journalism' is that gaming websites have a conflict of interest.

 

[j0hnny_385]

well to be fair this is a Euro site, ill be interested to see if any of the US sites are willing to take MS to task on this. I doubt it.


I have always been curious about the possible ties to patriotism that seems fairly prevelent in US games "journalism".

I'm sure Ben Kuchera is writing something similar to this... oh wait.

Spoiler

hehe, I had to...

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

When I can buy blockbuster games from XBL for $5-10 after a certain amount of time, I'll get back to you on that.

You couldn't do that on Steam when it launched either, and you don't know that you won't be able to do it on Xbox One after a while. So the question remains, and nobody is able to answer it.

Steam has physical disks? Cool.

Yup, pretty cool. It's called "Steamworks".

 

[Ce-Lin]

lol at those comparing the Xbox One with Steam... Steam is free, you know the rules if you want to play the (cheap) games there, on the other hand the Xbox One is one hell of an expensive piece of... whatever, I'm done, I'm playing some FFXII.

 

[DangerMouse]

Good on Eurogamer.

 

[Lynd7]

I really want all the major press to bash M$ hard for this stuff.. Good article from Eurogamer, it's a start.

 

[Alex]

I'm extremely OK with Steam, I want a digital future, I just want a good one. Microsoft's goal is to make sure they have every benefit of both digital and physical, with NONE of the boons to the consumer.

I want Valve's focus and ideals, and I want things run like they run it. I want a fleshed out, community driven games service, and Xbox doesn't really seem like they're about that. Every improvement seemed to go towards media, and that's cool, but it seems to have cannibalized the games portion.

Then, I want good treatment and pricing, and this is where Valve shines most. Steamworks, which is highly maintained itself and decentralized in a manner that allows publishers the option of completely cutting Valve out of the equation just to breed competition and better serve the customers. This is why you had dudes like Tony from Amazon running around, cutting deals with the pubs with no middle man.

With all this scuffle over high console prices, I'll still be leaning back while Steam, GMG, GG, Amazon, etc, etc, all try to bash each others brains in to deliver me deals year round. There's a reason it feels like there's some big sale or bargain going on perpetually on PC games: there is. Even on day one titles, for the past year, you've been able to easily pull them down at 50-60%+ off the past year or so ever since all this cutthroat business started taking place.

And of course, the final kicker, when I buy a PC game, there will always be some way to run it on my box. This is one of my most major reasons for being more comfortable with digital on the PC platform over consoles.

 

[Arksy]

The problem with game 'journalism' is that gaming websites have a conflict of interest.

Agree that games journos are terrible but this is pretty big news and will be covered by the mainstream press as well...

Not only that, some of the biased and bought press sites will still take Xbox to task. It's going to look really, really bad if they gloss over it.

 

[Ubersnug]

... and the decision to run Xbox games off a Virtual Machine 'game OS' within Xbox One, which could easily be included in new hardware derived from the same architectural roadmap.

Wait, did I miss something where Microsoft said the Xbox One would play older Xbox, or possibly Xbox 360 games?

 

[Unreal Champ]

Why is no one bashing Steam, they are doing the same thing for years.

Why the fuck do people keep bringing up Steam. Console gamers are nothing like PC gamers. So please stop with the Steam bullshit.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Just curious. But what is the difference between a disc and buying a digital download card from a retailer? Aren't they both simply a mechanism to deliver the content that is licensed to you?

Yes, since you have purchased them, digital games should of course also be able to be resold.

 

[Hasney]

You couldn't do that on Steam when it launched either, and you don't know that you won't be able to do it on Xbox One after a while. So the question remains, and nobody is able to answer it.

True, but without competition, it's unlikely. If they do it though, I will warm to buying an XBone. But not before.

 

[Madness]

Great article... Good thing they're not going along with the half-truths MS keeps feeding us.

 

[King_Moc]

Good on Eurogamer for this.

And can people stop bringing up Steam? It's not the same and only makes you look like you've never used it.

 

[Coolwhip]

It's a good article. Sums up pretty much why I don't like the Xbox One.

I do, however, expect the PS4 to have much of the same policies as the Xbox One. The videogame doesn't have much competition when it comes to console manufacturers. Where else are gamers going to go? What choice to they have? Nowhere and none.

They could play 1 dollar mobile games. Or buy 1 game a year. Both would bankrupt 90% of the publishers in a year. So lets hope Sony will save us (and them, since publishers are too stupid to realise you cant punish consumers and expect them to like it).

 

[DigitalRicket]

Yes, since you have purchased them, digital games should of course also be able to be resold.

But at purchase you are buying the license to play them on your machine... not to own them. This is how it's always worked with digital content on consoles.

 

[Valnen]

I don't know why people are comparing it to Steam.

We're NOT OK with Steam.

You'd be in a great minority on the internet for such an opinion.

 

[RobbieH]

Re: Steam.

It's the price you pay for PC gaming and Steam in general. Yes, we can't lend or sell our digital games - which they're transparent about and even then a lot of people aren't happy with it - but in return there's huge competition with Amazon, GMG and GOG, prices are incredibly low, you can play offline indefinitely, PCs are entirely customisable, mods, free online, infinite backwards compatibility, huge selection of indie games (Amazon just opened an indie store), etc. Xbone is applying the disadvantages of such an infrastructure without offering any advantages. Not a single one. And people have to be mindful of the precedent of Microsoft shutting down legacy servers. Will Xbone games be playable in 2025? Probably not.

 

[Swifty]

I think people are cool with Steam because the PC is a stable platform. It's not going anywhere. Your PC may become out of date, but once you upgrade it or replace it, all your games will still be compatible.

Consoles don't have that guarantee. When moving to a new generation, architectures change, brand new software libraries are written, entirely new GPUs are made with entirely foreign ISAs from the last one. It shouldn't be any wonder why adopting digital on consoles is a totally different animal and makes gamers cagey about this.

 

[Scherzo]

I'd say some kind of DRM on itself wouldn't be too bad, but the Internet connectivity thing makes it fucking atrocious.

Kotaku did a similar article. I kinda disagree on a point though; there's no magical non-consumerist past; game manufacturers have always tried to ring money out of gamers through cheap-knockoffs of popular genres. I wouldn't say DLC or whatever is an inherent good, but for all the rip-off shit out there, there are genuinely cool expansions too. I don't think the world is as black and white as it seems, but I do know nothing beneficial can come from this cockamamie scheme MS has drawn up.

 

[Arksy]

You'd be in a great minority on the internet for such an opinion.

I'm pretty sure the the majority of GAF supported the idea of being able to on-sell steam games when the discussions were rife a few months ago.

 

[Neo C.]

Remember in the early days before the Xbox launch, it was like "M$ making a game console? Do not want from that evil corporate machine ..."

But then they killed us with kindness. OG Xbox was thoughtfully designed with hardcore gamers in mind. 360 was similarly a great piece of kit (red ring, aside). The games and messaging were amazing.

But I feel like over the past few years.... They have become M$ again

Years ago when I still wasn't a gaffer, I warned people in other forums that MS isn't in this industry for the games. I'm still surprised they go that far with the Xbone though.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

the 'give a game to your friend if he's been on your friends list for 30 days or more'

is the most bold move out of the lot. Fuck them.

 

[The Librarian]

They could play 1 dollar mobile games. Or buy 1 game a year. Both would bankrupt 90% of the publishers in a year. So lets hope Sony will save us (and them, since publishers are too stupid to realise you cant punish consumers and expect them to like it).

That's not going to happen in sufficient numbers to affect either Sony or Microsoft dramatically. The general public is expecting a game console much like they've always bought. Not a lot of people are dedicated enough to know all of these policies beforehand. Consumers, by and large, don't bother researching too deeply the products they're buying. It's a problem with free-market capitalism. Nobody's an expert in everything.

 

[j0hnny_385]

That's my point. Why aren't people getting upset that you can't resell that download code after activating the game on your system? Same rules set. Actually, even that's more restrictive than what Xbox One does.

I started to type then I saw Alex wrote my words for me:

.

You couldn't do that on Steam when it launched either, and you don't know that you won't be able to do it on Xbox One after a while. So the question remains, and nobody is able to answer it.

See above.
I hope MS will have something similar in place down the road. The best thing about Steam is convenience and really, REALLY, cheap games. That fact alone nullifies all DRM and other issues, IMHO.

 

[Acidote]

Bravo Eurogamer.

 

[Scherzo]

I think we do need to recognize that physical media is on the way out; however MS could've handled it waaaaaay more gracefully. I think that a lot of it comes from MS pissing in our ear and telling us its raining; claiming that these changes somehow benefit us as consumers.

 

[DJwest]

Why is no one bashing Steam, they are doing the same thing for years.

why are you defending this shit ?

 

[Coolwhip]

Years ago when I still wasn't a gaffer, I warned people in other forums that MS isn't in this industry for the games. I'm still surprised they go that far with the Xbone though.

Since Xbox had been a huge moneysink for MS so far Im not surprised. Too bad for them they will likely kill off the brand completely.

 

[ReaperXL7]

The US? The country with the freest and fairest press in the world? With a long standing journalistic tradition of taking absolutely everyone to task?

I highly doubt it....

I hope your being sarcastic , we have some great real journalists in the US who try to do the best they can to bring real news to people. The problem is None of them choose gaming as their primary target, instead we get people who willingly accept bribes at press conference aired on national television, and then turn around to tell us that WE are in the wrong for speaking out against said company trying to reduce our consumer rights to nothing.

Fuck games "Journalism".

 

[davepoobond]

hey guys i found the solution to our problems

just trade your consoles around and you dont have to worry about it!

a game on your machine can be used by anyone, and you can play your games on any console.

so you can play a game on your "friend's" console which is now yours but then you can still use your games that you bought on your account.


its such a perfect way to cheese the system.


GameFly will start sending Xbox One consoles around. it will be so convenient because every xbox one they send out will have every game ever on it and you just rent it from them or something

 

[Valnen]

See above.
I hope MS will have something similar in place down the road. The best thing about Steam is convenience and really, REALLY, cheap games. That fact alone nullifies all DRM and other issues, IMHO.

When your objections can be nullified with cheap games I'm not sure they were strong objections to begin with.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

True, but without competition, it's unlikely. If they do it though, I will warm to buying an XBone. But not before.

What are other consoles, Steam and other services (and even mobile app marketplaces) but competition?

 

[rockx4]

Kudos to Eurogamer. Microsoft's Xbox One policy is so fucken shitty.

 

[BobTheFork]

It's not even that they are doing this that I hate the most. It's how badly they, and so many other people want us to stop overreacting and smile and pisses me off.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

A fairly bleak piece from Eurogamer about the digital future.



http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-07-microsoft-kills-game-ownership-and-expects-us-to-smile

Took them long enough, where was this outrage when they first 'accidentally' revealed their plans?

Too late now though, they've laid out their plans and I don't believe they'll be changing them any time soon or at least until the market has made it clear that it won't support such anti consumer practices, but I fear that might not happen as the wider public rarely pay attention to stuff like this...

 

[DJwest]

Kudos to Eurogamer. Microsoft's Xbox One policy is so fucken shitty.

now hoping that Sony doesn't follow suit...

 

[Rising_Hei]

Steam = can always play offline games being offline, can install it as many times as you want anywhere so...

 

[Night_Trekker]

Great article.

If the Xbox One, with all its anti-consumer changes, becomes popular, the industry deserves to crash.

 

[rockx4]

now hoping that Sony doesn't follow suit...

Sony themselves might not, but if they're giving third party publishers the option then it'll be just as bad. However, Sony jumped on the online pass this gen.. so I have no faith in them.

 

[Sorc3r3r]

Xbone must die in a fire as quickly as possible.

It will be soooo damaging in our hobby, but people will close their eyes and dream that all is right with this abomination, everything will be fine.
Keep dreaming, keep defending, morning will come.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Remember in the early days before the Xbox launch, it was like "M$ making a game console? Do not want from that evil corporate machine ..."

But then they killed us with kindness. OG Xbox was thoughtfully designed with hardcore gamers in mind. 360 was similarly a great piece of kit (red ring, aside). The games and messaging were amazing.

But I feel like over the past few years.... They have become M$ again

Unless you consider the subscription fee for playing online.
I have never paid for Xbox Live on my 360. Anyone who has must realise they were part of the problem.

 

[MirageDwarf]

Last time they shipped a console that didn't work by accident. Here's one that doesn't work on purpose.

They don't mince words.


Also, latest junior batch is completely shit.

 

[Acorn]

You see those dangling things between Tom's legs? They are balls games media. Get some.

 

[rockx4]

Unless you consider the subscription fee for playing online.
I have never paid for Xbox Live on my 360. Anyone who has must realise they were part of the problem.

Xbox live gold was probably one of the starting points for this. Millions of gamers willingly paid monthly\annually for a service already provided free on competing platforms.