TRUTHFACT: MS having eSRAM yield problems on Xbox One

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how you perceive gaf's supposed biases is one of those things that says more about you than it does about gaf. always has been that way going back many wars.
 
To be fair, Brad doesn't pretend he doesn't prefer Xbox. Which is a lot better than pretending to be neutral and trolling one first party, which is far too common.
 
I think people feel strongly about games. When people think your focus isn't on games, there will be a negative reaction. When you combine that with unprecedented DRM on physical copies of games, that makes it worse.

People are going to be really angry if Sony announces DRM too. The hate has been earned for Xbox One.

I don't want to hate on Brad either. I love his work on Giant Bomb, but his comments were kind of ridiculous.
 
DBT85 said:
I think estimates were around 420mm². based on the image we saw of the internals.

Best of luck CBoaT.
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....
edit: I mixed up the die sized, hd 7970 has a 360mm^2 die size, a 32nm i3 ivy bridge cpu takes up 81.
With the tiny tiny jaguar cpu they could have fit a much more powerful gpu on there if they didn't have need for the esram.

What is microsoft doing?

They went for an apu and with such a humongous die they end up with a hd 7750 and some shitty jaguar cpu instead? All for what to compensate for that 8GB ddr3 they just HAD to have?

KidBeta said:
32MB of SRAM is not exactly small. To put it into perspective the standard cache on a CPU is probably slightly (or maybe 10,20% larger, I dunno) then the eSRAM and it takes up nearly a third of a i7 die at 8MB.

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/nehalem/review/Nehalem_Die_callout.jpg
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yes I was referring to the esram when I said compensate for the 8GB ddr they had to have.
 
RaijinFY said:
Yes i know that, but still doesnt change it's going to be horrific to manufacture in the first months. I also doubt the XB1 is going to be cheap at retail.
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Oh yes, the chip is *really* big and the outcome will be quite low in the beginning. But concluding a price for XB1 given on this is too much, I think. I doubt MS was surprised that developing the chip (of course also with other partners) the chip in the beginning is easy to make. This happens to users here but not to people who are actually designing, developing and building the hardware.
 
I've always thought that while GAF is quite balanced on all counts (there is no strong majority of Nintendo/MS/Sony fans), there are a bit more Sony fans. Of course, PS4 appearing so much better than the Xbone skews the result more at this moment, but I've seen this earlier as well.

GAF is really balanced though. "full of frothing Sony fans" is just false.
 
benny_a said:
This is what Brad Shoemaker from Giant Bomb had to say about a majority of GAF after this topic came up.

"GAF has such a hard-on to see the Xbox One fail, I'd reserve judgement. Place is full of frothing Sony fans."

Link here
Click to expand...

I don't think this is true. Yes there are some people with agendas but that's a really small minority.
 
joshcryer said:
No one is on to him becuz he tepys leki a fuerkng reatad aen no oedn kneows weho eh is.

Really. He's obfuscated the shit out of his posts. Not sure if machine obfuscation or human, even. There's no pattern. Whoever he is, he's covered his tracks. mturk / Amazon has a "writer confirmation" ongoing solution. CBOAT would never be discovered. I suspect he writes what he wants and runs it through some kind of random obfuscation software.

This is NeoGAF, 99.9% of users who write like that get banned on discovery. He's used his reputation to allow him to obfuscate the fuck about what he posts, and his track record is impeccable. The mods allow it because it's fuckin' awesome.

CBOAT has nothing to fear. Release the details CBOAT. It'll be epic.
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Not entirely true. They might not be able to figure him out through speech/text recognition, but they could figure him out through the pieces of information that he gives or does not give.

Who is in a position to know the facts that he knows? I hope that he's mixing in pieces of information that he knows from his personal experience with pieces of information from multiple different sources.
 
Leezard said:
I've always thought that while GAF is quite balanced on all counts (there is no strong majority of Nintendo/MS/Sony fans), there are a bit more Sony fans. Of course, PS4 appearing so much better than the Xbone skews the result more at this moment, but I've seen this earlier as well.

GAF is really balanced though. "full of frothing Sony fans" is just false.
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GAF changes with the times. When I first joined Sony was constantly taking a beating here, while Microsoft was praised. Right now it's reversed.
 
Leezard said:
I've always thought that while GAF is quite balanced on all counts (there is no strong majority of Nintendo/MS/Sony fans), there are a bit more Sony fans. Of course, PS4 appearing so much better than the Xbone skews the result more at this moment, but I've seen this earlier as well.

GAF is really balanced though. "full of frothing Sony fans" is just false.
Click to expand...

It's a pendulum. It just happens to swing in Sony's direction right now. Now if/when they do something stupid it will swing away from them.
 
Crakatak187 said:
GAF changes with the times. When I first joined Sony was constantly taking a beating here, while Microsoft was praised. Right now it's reversed.
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Gorillaz said:
It's a pendulum. It just happens to swing in Sony's direction right now. Now if/when they do something stupid it will swing away from them.
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Yeah, you're right. It's mostly the last couple of years that I've noticed this. GAF is probably one of if not the most balanced game forum, even if it might skew a bit to a single direction during a relatively short time frame.
 
MarkusRJR said:
Yeah this was basically what I meant when I referred to him as a shill. It's probably not the best descriptor, but whatever. He is the director of programming (and does community stuff on the side), not a pr rep. The fact that he does PR under the guise of providing an inside look at development kind of grosses me out.
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Pristine_Condition said:
He's a shill. Just not a shill by the old definition. Call him a neo-shill if it makes you feel better.

It's the very idea that you brought up, that Major Nelson is doing PR "on the side" -- this "unofficial" shtick that he has crafted over the years that defines him as a shill.

He's a PR mouthpiece, straight-up. But the fact that he tries to make it seem like he's just a guy doing this "on the side" is what makes him a shill, because it's an obfuscation of his real role. He's the most public and well-known community mouthpiece in gaming now.

It's a brilliantly-crafted persona. In the beginning it was effective because it made Xbox fans feel like they had an "inside" connection with the team.

But now it's something else. Simply look at how Xbox fans treat one of his tweets:





​

There's many, many more examples in the other thread. This clearly isn't a guy doing PR "on the side" anymore. The fact that he still claims that, and you and other Xbox fans still propagate the myth that he's "just a guy doing this on the side" while he's clearly not, is what makes him a shill. A shill is simply anyone who hides the true nature of their agency. And clearly, the Major matches that definition.
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I know that the tribalism between fanboys is reaching a fever pitch, especially after Microsoft's successful attempts at self destruction has left Xbox fans grasping at strawmen. But the second part of the post of mine that you quoted adequately demonstrates that I'm far from a fanboy; especially a Xbox fanboy.

I mean if you want more validation and if you're really quite bored you could always look through my post history and you would find that I haven't spent all my time in every Xbox One threads trying to downplay the issues or out right turn negative points into boons like SenjutsuSage, Hix or Dave Meltzer or other fanboys have been doing.

-----------


Hryb has also been a prominent member of some Halo PR events and often does podcasts and videos, so twitter posts aren't the extent of his PR activities. But he originally joined Microsoft as a programmer. And considering that he probably wouldn't want a severe salary reduction, it's still his primary role within Microsoft. The fact that he fell into the PR role is really more that unlike most middle management of Microsoft he was pretty accessible and would respond to the community directly about some issues.

That being said, PR heads attempting to ingratiate themselves into the community is pretty standard behavior. And Hryb has never tried to hide the fact that he has morphed into a part time PR spokesman. Every time he gives and interview, if asked, he openly talks about what does and doesn't work with making positive connections with current and potential Xbox consumers. What he's doing is nothing more than what other PR representatives do every day. A good PR representative always tries to integrate themselves with their target audience. Why do you think Game Reviewers get special packages with the free advance copy of the game? Consumers wanted Hryb to give them the 'behind the scenes' walkthroughs at Microsoft's office. So he did. They want him to respond to their emails and tweets. He does, now the response might not be an actual answer, but it is a better pill for them than typical corporate silence.

Nothing he does is 'shilling' or 'neo-shilling' as you want to call it. Its all just a more personally packaged version of PR. This has been going on since the beginning of time. The only difference is that in past times, due to costs, only important clients would rate such personal packaging. With the advent of email, the internet, and twitter; companies can afford to tailor their responses to less individually important clients.

------------

We're dealing with a widely available consumer device that is sold on the appeal of simplicity. Add to that the strength and weakness of the internet is that everyone can now participate in the discussion. Voices of reason have to compete with the lonely souls who need fill their empty lives by vicariously associating themselves with the members of a corporation or random celebrity; for that matter. The fact that some small minority feels personally connected to a corporation is reflective of their own faults, not some machination of the corporation.


DocSeuss said:
I'm more mad about him getting my hopes up than anything else. He had the pub date wrong iirc. Was also wrong about the lack of horror in DR3, and, iirc, mentioned that Sony was doing Remember me.
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Buttocks claimed that Dead Space 3 was a straight up Co-op shooter. Except for the first hour or so in the beginning, DS3 was a generic third person shooter. Anyone who played DS3 could tell you that this was the case. There was no horror outside of maybe a meta commentary on how far the series had changed from it's initial goals. Also, publish dates get moved around constantly due to other games, developmental, or legal issues. Ask Wii owners waiting for Rayman: Legends or anyone waiting for a release of a less popular title during the release timeframe of massive franchises such as WoW, GTA, or CoD.

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Remember Me was a Sony funded exclusive when leaked by Buttocks. Later down the line Sony wasn't happy with the quality and cancelled the title. It was then picked up by Capcom and switched to a PC/360/PS3 release. You can ask the developers if you want, they'll tell you the same thing.


Crazy hasn't been wrong about any announcement when they were made.


SmokeMaxX said:
Not entirely true. They might not be able to figure him out through speech/text recognition, but they could figure him out through the pieces of information that he gives or does not give.

Who is in a position to know the facts that he knows? I hope that he's mixing in pieces of information that he knows from his personal experience with pieces of information from multiple different sources.
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If Buttock's is smart, its a cherry picking operation and not total information dump.




benny_a said:
This is what Brad Shoemaker from Giant Bomb had to say about a majority of GAF after this topic came up.

"GAF has such a hard-on to see the Xbox One fail, I'd reserve judgement. Place is full of frothing Sony fans."

Link here
Click to expand...

Awww that is cute. I'm sure in his little world a gaming forum with thousands of members is just a hivemind and only him and is friends at GB and the other sites like Polygon have the authority to decide what is and isn't a real issue. Maybe he should come here instead of posting on outside forums and try that second grade logic. I'm sure he could really defend his argument against a critique.

Better yet, he should bring Ryan Davis and Jeff Gerstmann. Then all three of them could post their opinions without the protection of a one way medium like a podcast. I never get tired of hearing how their friends in the games industry think anti-consumer policies are great because "I HAVE A FAMILY TO FEED" and that strawman somehow makes the erosion of consumer rights acceptable.
 
"GAF has such a hard-on to see the Xbox One fail, I'd reserve judgement. Place is full of frothing Sony fans."
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What?
I don't know if he was around at the time of the previous reveals?
Sony got slaughtered on this site.
Also check multiplat threads, they tend to scew to 360 and in controller discussions 360 wins hands down every time.
If GAF is biased, and I say if, than it's always been more pro 360 than ps3.
Also look at the vitas reception here... One positive thread amongst hostile territory.

The negativity around the Xbone is purely MS's fault. They are vague, the leaks are predominantly negative and up till now they all true. If Sony fucked up to the same degree again, we would see as many (or maybe even more) anti-sony threads.

But to people who don't like the content of the rumours becaus eof their own agenda, Gaf is just a wretched hive of scum and villainy.
 
Bias is just the wrong word. Favoring one thing over another isn't a bias, it's a preference. A bias would be if MS announced the XBO is reversing all this stuff, getting a big spec bump, and is going to cost less than PS4, and GAF still hates MS, and that would not happen.
 
Anti-consumer measures taken by microsoft is already enough reasons to not support them. Its nothing about favouring which company. If Sony did the same or at least as much as ms, people would obviously turn against them too which we can already see from 2005- 2009.
 
Animation-Imp said:
What?
I don't know if he was around at the time of the previous reveals?
Sony got slaughtered on this site.
Also check multiplat threads, they tend to scew to 360 and in controller discussions 360 wins hands down every time.
If GAF is biased, and I say if, than it's always been more pro 360 than ps3.
Also look at the vitas reception here... One positive thread amongst hostile territory.

The negativity around the Xbone is purely MS's fault. They are vague, the leaks are predominantly negative and up till now they all true. If Sony fucked up to the same degree again, we would see as many (or maybe even more) anti-sony threads.

But to people who don't like the content of the rumours becaus eof their own agenda, Gaf is just a wretched hive of scum and villainy.
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Please read the post you quoted. GAF is balanced, I did not claim a strong majority bias. I said that in my experience there are just a bit more Sony fans on this site. There does not need to be a Sony bias for this to be true. My own views might not be complete since I mostly read Sony/Nintendo threads. I don't see people preferring the 360 controller or 360 multiplats as any signs of bias since the controller part is personal preference and the multiplats are typically better on the 360.
I've been a member since 2007, and I've lurked before that.
 
Remember that this would have been a lot worse if Gaff and other online communities hadn't been so vocal in expressing their discontent.
 
benny_a said:
This is what Brad Shoemaker from Giant Bomb had to say about a majority of GAF after this topic came up.

"GAF has such a hard-on to see the Xbox One fail, I'd reserve judgement. Place is full of frothing Sony fans."

Link here
Click to expand...

Watching media sites/journalists committing "internet suicide" over the next week will be interesting.
 
SneakyStephan said:
....
420 mm^2 , that is as much die space as a geforce titan and an ivy bridge i3 take up combined.

What is microsoft doing?

They went for an apu and with such a humongous die they end up with a hd 7750 and some shitty jaguar cpu instead? All for what to compensate for that 8GB ddr3 they just HAD to have?


yes I was referring to the esram when I said compensate for the 8GB ddr they had to have.
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Completely off.

Besides, my personal estimate from that Xbone image is ~350mm2.
 
benny_a said:
This is what Brad Shoemaker from Giant Bomb had to say about a majority of GAF after this topic came up.

"GAF has such a hard-on to see the Xbox One fail, I'd reserve judgement. Place is full of frothing Sony fans."

Link here
Click to expand...

So, a poster who leaked correct stuff about the 360 now says that there is a yeild problem with the One. So he is somewhat credible.

If you like the One you should also be concerned with this. I would be. How is this so personal? Can he explain here or over twitter?
 
artist said:
Completely off.

Besides, my personal estimate from that Xbone image is ~350mm2.
Click to expand...

I mixed up the 7970 die size with the titan's, the 7970 is 360mm^2 , I thought the titan was
I thought it sounded weird, my mistake.

Still , they could fit a 7970 and an i3 on that amount of die space, but they ended up with a piddly 7750 instead.

I'll edit my last post
 
haha the last thing I could be called is a frothing Sony fan.

What the hell is wrong with most of the media?

It's one thing to try and take a level headed objective approach and another to bury that head up your arse.
 
Crakatak187 said:
The Neogaf community is relentless. They will turn on a dime and lash out at companies if they do anything wrong.
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This... Don't dare for a second think Sony has a get out of jail free card. They can still be shunned if they pull the same crap.

Always on
Required Eye toy
Anti-used games, problems using games on your other systems, rentals

If they do this crap. I'll turn on them just as quickly. Just like I turned on steam before they fixed some issues.
 
Neogaf isn't really turning on a dime though. Each console has its share of fanboys. When there's bad news for one console, other fanboys attack while that console's fanboys either defend or stay quiet. Then another console has some bad news and the roles are reversed. Most people's minds here are pretty set though haha.
 
Can someone tell me when a console has launched, since the first CD based machines, or even the N64, where there hasn't been any yield, manufacturing, or supply constraint issues.

Even the dreamcast launched with less stock than sega originally planned in Japan.

It's par for the course... Not really sure why everyone is focusing on this... Didn't we have reports from Chinese manufacturers saying Sony was going to struggle to meet planned ps4 shipments because the orders weren't in a few weeks back.... No one seems to be focusing on that.

Like kotaku said, it is normal for consoles to 'come in hot' during the launch window.
 
benny_a said:
This is what Brad Shoemaker from Giant Bomb had to say about a majority of GAF after this topic came up.

"GAF has such a hard-on to see the Xbox One fail, I'd reserve judgement. Place is full of frothing Sony fans."

Link here
Click to expand...
I don't necessarily disagree.**
- People want to see MS get slapped on the wrist for designing the xbone as anti-consumerist as it is.*
- People are getting more excited about the prospects of the PS4 based on what we know so far, and how messy the xbone reveal has been so far.*

Now, had he claimed that GAF is "cesspool of MS-hating, Nintendo-bashing sonyponies, and always has been" then we'd have a problem. But he picked his words more carefully.

But generally speaking, that's how mindshare (at least among hard-core gamers who're on top of gaming news and frequent forums) gets snatched up in one direction or the other at the beginning of a generation. I don't see anything out of the ordinary. A quick look back at the PS3 launch and how every stupid move Sony made added to the toxicity of the forum-goers' perception towards them stands witness to that.

* Jury is still out on the PS4, final judgement pending.
** Whether Brad is known for being partial to MS or not is completely beyond me.
 
Ninja Moomin said:
Sony was going to struggle to meet planned ps4 shipments because the orders weren't in a few weeks back.... No one seems to be focusing on that.
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It help's with promotion, everyone want's something they cannot get then you have all these TV station's/websites saying it's sold out which creates more buzz even if it's fabricated.
 
benny_a said:
This is what Brad Shoemaker from Giant Bomb had to say about a majority of GAF after this topic came up.

"GAF has such a hard-on to see the Xbox One fail, I'd reserve judgement. Place is full of frothing Sony fans."

Link here
Click to expand...
What he says doesn't make sense to me.

If anything, Sony fans should be worried about XBone getting downgrades because it's dragging down the specs of the next-gen console that already was going to be the lowest common denominator for third party publishers. The DRM is another can of worms MS has opened that might put pressure on Sony.

I'd rather see another (this time full) HD twins generation with hardware parity. The alternative is a PS2 - Xbox generation where the difference only manifests itself by the PS4 getting multiplatform games that look slightly better than current gen but with higher IQ and only a couple of exclusive first party games untapping all that extra power you paid for.


Gorillaz said:
It's a pendulum. It just happens to swing in Sony's direction right now. Now if/when they do something stupid it will swing away from them.
Click to expand...
(Sony, MS, PC, Nintendo) -> It's a 3D pendulum! :P
 
Leezard said:
Please read the post you quoted. GAF is balanced, I did not claim a strong majority bias. I said that in my experience there are just a bit more Sony fans on this site. There does not need to be a Sony bias for this to be true. My own views might not be complete since I mostly read Sony/Nintendo threads. I don't see people preferring the 360 controller or 360 multiplats as any signs of bias since the controller part is personal preference and the multiplats are typically better on the 360.
I've been a member since 2007, and I've lurked before that.
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Sorry dude, I was too quick on the reply,
I've altered the post since.
My sincere apologies.
 
Ninja Moomin said:
Can someone tell me when a console has launched, since the first CD based machines, or even the N64, where there hasn't been any yield, manufacturing, or supply constraint issues.

Even the dreamcast launched with less stock than sega originally planned in Japan.

It's par for the course... Not really sure why everyone is focusing on this... Didn't we have reports from Chinese manufacturers saying Sony was going to struggle to meet planned ps4 shipments because the orders weren't in a few weeks back.... No one seems to be focusing on that.

Like kotaku said, it is normal for consoles to 'come in hot' during the launch window.
Click to expand...

Did you miss the numerous discussions about whether Sony should shaft Europe or Japan so they can get enough units for two markets? Which mostly stopped a) after Sony seemed to confirm EU 2013 launch (UK at least) and b) the current stream of Xbone negativity washed away the threads belitteling Wii U, Vita bashing, Sony speculation, etc. MS dropped a hype implosion device and their PR statements, dev comments, insiders and rumours add fuel to the fire neraly every day since the reveal. Yeah, I wonder why old news about PS4 production, that were discussed long and wide, are not as focussed on as the Nelson vs Cboat throwdown.
 
Ninja Moomin said:
Can someone tell me when a console has launched, since the first CD based machines, or even the N64, where there hasn't been any yield, manufacturing, or supply constraint issues.

Even the dreamcast launched with less stock than sega originally planned in Japan.

It's par for the course... Not really sure why everyone is focusing on this... Didn't we have reports from Chinese manufacturers saying Sony was going to struggle to meet planned ps4 shipments because the orders weren't in a few weeks back.... No one seems to be focusing on that.

Like kotaku said, it is normal for consoles to 'come in hot' during the launch window.
Click to expand...

We had big threads on that. How Sony might have to delay the EU launch and how much that would be dumb/suicidal. But they confirmed it being 2013 for EU so it seemed okay.

Here we have a credible insider saying there are issues, while PRNelson says its fine. Ill go with GAF on this but ofc Ill wait.
 
crazy buttocks on a train said:
tryiun tyo flushme frmo the weeds, sory friend in duckhunt im the gun nott.he ducks

ducks

GAMEFRIENDS::: 1more truthfactbefore 10am conf. MONDAY if i gegt the aditional sosurceocnfimaltion. on it.

otherwise godbye fora ibit.
Click to expand...

cboatisthegunenxex.gif


Sorry I was LTTP! Quicky and dirty. Source of Contra/duckhunt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16U394NZSTk
 
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