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[WrenchNinja]

You couldn't do that on Steam when it launched either, and you don't know that you won't be able to do it on Xbox One after a while. So the question remains, and nobody is able to answer it.

Where is the hope stemming from that they're going to drop prices as much as Steam consistently? It sure hasn't happened with Games on Demand. Prices are not going to drop with Microsoft even in more control over how you buy and having control over what the designated retailers are going be doing the reselling.

 

[haikira]

Why is no one bashing Steam, they are doing the same thing for years.

1. Steam doesn't have a monthly/yearly premium.
2. Microsoft's DRM will effectively allow them to have a monopoly on sales, whereas steam still has plenty of competition in that department.
3. The offline mode for Xbox One has a 24 hour limit, but you can keep steam offline for an indefinite amount of time.
4. There's the always connected Kinect, attached with the 24 hour online checks. Unlike some people though, my paranoia only extends to thinking Microsoft will track data for personal use. But you never know.
5. While no one really knows when Steam could end, many would assume it'll still be around longer than the Xbox One and are probably happier permanently attaching games to it.

 

[RobbieH]

The Guardian have mentioned this in their Press Start: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2013/jun/07/game-links-press-start

 

[Malaussene]

Free games, 1$ for each hour of actual gameplay.

I'd pay more than 500$ for a monster hunter game based on this, lol.

 

[dosh]

Free games, 1$ for each hour of actual gameplay.

Dark Souls would cost me $600

 

[JaggedSac]

That misses the point entirely.

Not really. There is competition. Where there is competition, people can vote with their dollars. If sales are garbage for the XBone, they can change their policies. All of these things are done via software. That can change. They can remove DRM if they plan to stop their servers. They can change the length of time between authentications. Like someone else said, Steam has evolved on this stuff as well. Where they are now, is not where they were to begin with. I personally have no issues with any of this stuff. I've gamed on PC for many years, I am used to buying a disc, installing it, inputting a code, and knowing that my disc no longer has any value. The 24 hour thing doesn't bother me either, I can see how it could to some, but if my internet goes down, I will create a mobile hotspot, do the auth, and then kill the hotspot. My cellular reception has never gone out at my house. Once again, I understand the gnashing of teeth, I just don't see why it is such as a huge backlash a backlash as it is. Especially when the argument for a similar service is mainly based on price and not our inherent rights as consumers.


And on the issue of Kinect spying. The main thing is that the device is on our end. Servers are on their end and we have no visibility of what is happening with that data. The moment that Kinect starts sending phantom data to MS servers, it will become instantly aware to the public because someone will be snooping packets leaving their network. That is the difference, we control the source of information and it will become a media shitstorm if they start doing that. Why risk secretly trying to do such an obviously detectable thing?

 

[OzPinoy]

No amount of money that Microsoft can buy. Silence from to every media that might publish negative news.

 

[Freki]

Yeah, I can guess. Microsoft releases a patch that disables the DRM, allowing games to be played without activation. Just like Valve has said they will do with Steam.

Do you really think they'd effectively brick millions of consoles just because the servers are "no longer cost-effective"?

So we can agree that the "only possible with the help of the cloud" is BS then?

Bullshit. You know as well as I do that there's no reason for them to do that.

SuperHD Remakes?

 

[Elaugaufein]

Also, I don't think anyone should be defending Steam's policies by citing that they have cheaper games. The principle is still the same regardless of price. If you're for the policy then you should be for. If you're against then you're against. You can't straddle the fence just because it's convenient to you.

I don't see why you can't straddle fence based on convenience. Companies , who are apparently the arbiter of morality because profit uber alles, do it all the time. Region locking / Price discrimination is a brilliant example "Globalization for me but not for thee" as someone else put it. They can make stuff cheap because of regional price differences but they have no interest in letting you buy it cheap.

 

[Owzers]

No amount of money that Microsoft can buy. Silence from to every media that might publish negative news.

People will be angry for awhile but six months into the system release, the acceptance phase will kick in and no one will decry outrage. That's what MS is counting on at core gamer expense.

Also six months in I won't be owning the system. PS4 if it doesn't do this, if it does, Wii U if the Mario game looks great or a 3ds if there's a good holiday bundle.

Worst case scenario i finish my backlog until Wii U gets a better library at the end of next year.

 

[TheKayle]

and patcher still think Ms can continue down this road?

 

[Camp Freddie]

RE: JaggedSac

The fact that MS can arbitrarily alter the nature of the agreement at any time is a bad thing not a good one [vader-pray-i-dont-alter-it-further.gif]

We have to pay a lot of money for the Xbone. So we're dependent on MS not screwing us over by adversely changing the deal after we've parted with our cash (I'm sure the EULA will screw us out of any refunds).

Your argument also makes no sense.
"We shouldn't complain about the xbox because MS could make their policies acceptable if everyone complains and boycotts the product"
We're complaining precisely because we want MS to change it's policies and because we'll buy a living-room-PC or PS4 if they continue this bullshit.

It's like telling people that Walmart isn't bad because they could start paying their employees a living wage if we all boycotted it..

 

[VicDaMoan03]

Regarding Steam:

Another difference, you don't need to pay steam to play your games online.

 

[nkarafo]

1. Steam doesn't have a monthly/yearly premium.
2. Microsoft's DRM will effectively allow them to have a monopoly on sales, whereas steam still has plenty of competition in that department.
3. The offline mode for Xbox One has a 24 hour limit, but you can keep steam offline for an indefinite amount of time.
4. There's the always connected Kinect, attached with the 24 hour online checks. Unlike some people though, my paranoia only extends to thinking Microsoft will track data for personal use. But you never know.
5. While no one really knows when Steam could end, many would assume it'll still be around longer than the Xbox One and are probably happier permanently attaching games to it.

And if something happens and you can't log on Steam, even if their servers are bombed or something, you can always use cracks to play the games you have. So your collection can still be alive no matter what. That's the beauty of an open platform like the PC. A service like Steam just works better with it. Xbone is a closed platform, basically a console. You can't control shit unless you mod it or something (if they ever crack it).

 

[ironcreed]

Excellent, good on eurogamer for not playing along with this shit.

Dat first post. All I wanted to say.

 

[mclem]

Valve have promised that in the event that they are going out of business they will unlock any DRM from the games you own.

Actually, I think they only said that in the context of their *own* games. It's been a long time since I saw the original quote, though.

 

[FrankT]

If your going to call out Microsoft for allowing Publishers to make the call on trade-ins ya better do the same for Sony since this what they have said all along.

 

[BigDug13]

1. Steam doesn't have a monthly/yearly premium.
2. Microsoft's DRM will effectively allow them to have a monopoly on sales, whereas steam still has plenty of competition in that department.
3. The offline mode for Xbox One has a 24 hour limit, but you can keep steam offline for an indefinite amount of time.
4. There's the always connected Kinect, attached with the 24 hour online checks. Unlike some people though, my paranoia only extends to thinking Microsoft will track data for personal use. But you never know.
5. While no one really knows when Steam could end, many would assume it'll still be around longer than the Xbox One and are probably happier permanently attaching games to it.

STEAM games accept mods and play better as you upgrade hardware and is infinitely backward compatible.

 

[tatotiburon]

How people already know how much used games will cost on Xbox One?? Butbutbut look games on demand!...jesus you're bashing people because they compare Xbox one with steam and you think that the new market nextgen will be the same as games on demand, give me a break.

Do you know why steam is cheap? You think is because they have a good heart? Nooo is because they have a lot of sales, every game sold on steam is $$ for the publishers, there are no used games sales so they know every single person who plays on steam had pay for the game so the margin profit is bigger so they can trow a lot of promotions.

And don't forget the steam promotions are made by the publisher no from steam "the evil Microsoft will have expensive games look at games on demand" c'mon people how could you be sure that publishers won't trow good promotions on Xbox one ??? If piracy and private second games sales are over?

Another reason for cheap games on steam is because piracy still exists in PC so they make good promotions so people won't fall in the temptation of download the game illegally.

We just have to wait if Microsoft after the launch of Xbox one will charge for old games at full price well screw them but if we can see great deals well screw my fiends now they can buy their own games cheap.

 

[EternalTruth]

I applaud Steam for starting support of Linux, just in case this type of thing ever happens to Windows...

 

[ThisWreckage]

Has anyone pointed out that this is the reason why they canceled their roundtable and the one on one interviews? They knew they were going to be grilled.

 

[Durante]

And don't forget the steam promotions are made by the publisher no from steam "the evil Microsoft will have expensive games look at games on demand" c'mon people how could you be sure that publishers won't trow good promotions on Xbox one ??? If piracy and private second games sales are over?

Another reason for cheap games on steam is because piracy still exists in PC so they make good promotions so people won't fall in the temptation of download the game illegally.

Are you aware of how you are dismantling the point you just built directly in the subsequent paragraph? First, piracy is something that prevents sales, and then it causes them. Make up your mind.

 

[PuppetSlave]

Basically in an simplistic humorist view,
steam lives on an capitalist platform, Xbox one will live on an communistic platform. (kinect is the KGB )

 

[Mael]

How people already know how much used games will cost on Xbox One?? Butbutbut look games on demand!...jesus you're bashing people because they compare Xbox one with steam and you think that the new market nextgen will be the same as games on demand, give me a break.

Do you know why steam is cheap? You think is because they have a good heart? Nooo is because they have a lot of sales, every game sold on steam is $$ for the publishers, there are no used games sales so they know every single person who plays on steam had pay for the game so the margin profit is bigger so they can trow a lot of promotions.

And don't forget the steam promotions are made by the publisher no from steam "the evil Microsoft will have expensive games look at games on demand" c'mon people how could you be sure that publishers won't trow good promotions on Xbox one ??? If piracy and private second games sales are over?

Another reason for cheap games on steam is because piracy still exists in PC so they make good promotions so people won't fall in the temptation of download the game illegally.

We just have to wait if Microsoft after the launch of Xbox one will charge for old games at full price well screw them but if we can see great deals well screw my fiends now they can buy their own games cheap.

You absolutely can't serious.
Are you like Homer Simpsons running behind his bbq and shouting "Still good, still good" till the whole thing is well beyond salvageable?
some of you are way to eager to get buttfucked by MSFT!

 

[travisbickle]

If your going to call out Microsoft for allowing Publishers to make the call on trade-ins ya better do the same for Sony since this what they have said all along.

Stop grasping, and just let it sink in.

We don't know anything about Sony's solution, hopefully we'll find out soon.

 

[JaggedSac]

RE: JaggedSac

The fact that MS can arbitrarily alter the nature of the agreement at any time is a bad thing not a good one [vader-pray-i-dont-alter-it-further.gif]

We have to pay a lot of money for the Xbone. So we're dependent on MS not screwing us over by adversely changing the deal after we've parted with our cash (I'm sure the EULA will screw us out of any refunds).

I don't see a monetary benefit to them in squeezing the rules further, but certainly it could happen, but just as likely as it could be them laxing them. Especially if consumer buying habits resemble the outrage on gaf.

REYour argument also makes no sense.
"We shouldn't complain about the xbox because MS could make their policies acceptable if everyone complains and boycotts the product"
We're complaining precisely because we want MS to change it's policies and because we'll buy a living-room-PC or PS4 if they continue this bullshit.

It's like telling people that Walmart isn't bad because they could start paying their employees a living wage if we all boycotted it..

I'm not telling you not to complain. Complain all you want. I was merely curious as to why there was SO much gnashing, especially when it seems to be about consumer rights, but those same consumer rights being taken are ok as long as the deal is sweetened. Seems like selling out to me.

 

[Drek]

We just have to wait if Microsoft after the launch of Xbox one will charge for old games at full price well screw them but if we can see great deals well screw my fiends now they can buy their own games cheap.

So your argument is that no one should buy the Xbox One for the first few months until we actually really see just how draconian Microsoft is being.

I'd agree with that. But you could have just said that in the first place. "Lets all not buy it for the first six months and see". Great.

Makes way more sense than you claiming a false equivalency between people saying XB1 = Steam and people saying XB1 = Games on Demand/XBLA. After all, Games on Demand and XBLA are both Microsoft services that have similar publisher protections as the XB1. It is far more like XB1 than Steam.

 

[FrankT]

Stop grasping, and just let it sink in.

We don't know anything about Sony's solution, hopefully we'll find out soon.

Righ TravisB the guy that still owes me a permaban bet.

They have said many times leave up to the publishers.

If they change course so be it, but they are on record for the same thing.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Remember in the early days before the Xbox launch, it was like "M$ making a game console? Do not want from that evil corporate machine ..."

But then they killed us with kindness. OG Xbox was thoughtfully designed with hardcore gamers in mind. 360 was similarly a great piece of kit (red ring, aside). The games and messaging were amazing.

But I feel like over the past few years.... They have become M$ again

Well.

They follow the leader. They went with the most profitable approach at the time (Sony's PS2 strategy, which was to get all the games and become the market leader that way), then they wanted to also add casual players, and now they're making their play for the living room.

They just can't remember how they got this far.

 

[oldtimegamer007]

Steam has physical disks? Cool.

You can buyPC physical discs that are cheaper than digital copies in many cases just like Xbox 360 and PS3 today. Once you install your PC game disc based system it becomes digital, Steam codes etc. Just like what MS is doing.

The only difference in the future , right now, is one digital store to buy from on the Xbox One. That's a good case to open the platform up via lawsuit, MS would lose.

The other major difference is the camera/mic listening and recording device that MS will be sharing with the NSA.

People here think its "really different" from Steam, when its not. The real issue is the listening and recording device that MS has been sharing with the NSA on your behalf. Most people don't quite understand what is happening in this country however.

 

[Kai Dracon]

This article makes me wonder...

... which press outlet will eventually take the prize for top suck-up to Microsoft over this, doing its best to convince everyone that all this is the best thing ever and gaming has finally "evolved" or whatnot into its next awesome form.

 

[Shaneus]

This article makes me wonder...

... which press outlet will eventually take the prize for top suck-up to Microsoft over this, doing its best to convince everyone that all this is the best thing ever and gaming has finally "evolved" or whatnot into its next awesome form.

You have to wonder about that? It's pretty obvious that it's Polygon. At least, as long as Kuchera is associated with them. Which is forever, because I think he was one of the founders of it.

 

[Domcorleone]

This article makes me wonder...

... which press outlet will eventually take the prize for top suck-up to Microsoft over this, doing its best to convince everyone that all this is the best thing ever and gaming has finally "evolved" or whatnot into its next awesome form.

Polygon

 

[ShockingAlberto]

You have to wonder about that? It's pretty obvious that it's Polygon. At least, as long as Kuchera is associated with them. Which is forever, because I think he was one of the founders of it.

Kuchera writes for Penny-Arcade Report.

 

[cyberheater]

Why is no one bashing Steam, they are doing the same thing for years.

I really wish folks would think for two seconds before posting this stuff. It's totally different.

 

[ebullientprism]

People will be angry for awhile but six months into the system release, the acceptance phase will kick in and no one will decry outrage. That's what MS is counting on at core gamer expense.

This is almost inevitable. Sales of games like Diablo 3 and Simcity have already shown that gamers will complain long, hard and loud but in the end they will buy the games they want anyway. Or in this case the platform those games are on.

10 years ago, paying for costumes in fighting games, colors on guns etc would have been a laughable idea. But we bitched and moaned and we bought it all anyway. Because we HAVE TO HAVE IT.

The usual parade of fanboys, paid shills and idiots will keep harping on and on about how this is the future (apparently have less rights than before is the way to go) and how this is no different that Steam (while being completely different from Steam) and once people see that exclusive line up of games at E3, they will start buying into it.

The console will sell. Its inevitable.

 

[Kai Dracon]

You have to wonder about that? It's pretty obvious that it's Polygon. At least, as long as Kuchera is associated with them. Which is forever, because I think he was one of the founders of it.

Polygon

Hey, it's an early horse race. Give everyone else time to find their pace.

 

[Blackthorn]

Is there any somewhat reasonable explanation why a disc can't serve as authentication? I mean, a physical object is pretty damn authentic. This works fine on the 360. Such a transparent "Fuck you".

Also, while I know comparisons to Steam aren't entirely valid, saying "But it's cheap!" is a fickle justification. As a PC gamer I get that we traded rights for convenience and price, but those T&Cs we sign are no less restrictive (more so, in some ways) and corporate-interested.

 

[Katzii]

Why is no one bashing Steam, they are doing the same thing for years.

Because at least with Steam, I have a chance of buying games at a halfway decent price.

Why the fuck do people keep bringing up Steam. Console gamers are nothing like PC gamers. So please stop with the Steam bullshit.

They bring it up because they've run out of ways to make their system look good. Therefore the next logical step is to attack other systems to make them look bad.

 

[Mlatador]

I have a great advice for everyone: Don't support Mircrosoft, Don't support EA or any other publisher who's probably the major driving force behind all this shit, and Sony as well, if they go the same route.

Wake up, don't be stupid and do the fucking right thing for once.

 

[ElFly]

Wasn't there an european court ruling that mandated that digital sales should be resaleable without the publishers interfering?

Wonder why Steam ignored that.

 

[demosthenes]

I'm glad for this article. This news needs to spread everywhere.

I don't like the latest crop of juniors with < 150 posts. I keep seeing them making drive by posts like Soviet did in this thread and never returning.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Why is no one bashing Steam, they are doing the same thing for years.

Because there are too many goddamn differences to even count.

Steam is a piece of software on your computer. X1 is a goddamn physical device that can turn into little more than a plastic brick for arbitrary reasons like the internet going out.

I can play my currently downloaded Steam games for a lonnnnnnnnnng time(is there even a limit?) without having access to internet. I had to do just that when I moved into this apartment because internet companies in Japan are fucking inefficient as shit and can take a month to schedule the work to be done.

 

[Cyborg]

Can someone do the Sheldon (big bang theory) smiling gif?

 

[CosmicQueso]

Why is no one bashing Steam, they are doing the same thing for years.

Ahhhhh... Deflection. Classic tactic.

Sorry people don't like your new console, but leave steam out of this. It's not the same thing at all.

 

[Graphics Horse]

It would be an interesting question, whether eurogamer et al would or should just refuse to cover the console. They and kotaku ponder if customers will stand for this... maybe they, as press, could take a stand too.

'Don't like it, don't talk about it?' You don't want that...

Because there are too many goddamn differences to even count.

Steam is a piece of software on your computer. X1 is a goddamn physical device that can turn into little more than a plastic brick for arbitrary reasons like the internet going out.

Hey now, you can still watch a blu ray and live tv on it. That's a lot more than a lego brick can do.

 

[ElFly]

Because there are too many goddamn differences to even count.

Steam is a piece of software on your computer. X1 is a goddamn physical device that can turn into little more than a plastic brick for arbitrary reasons like the internet going out.

I can play my currently downloaded Steam games for a lonnnnnnnnnng time(is there even a limit?) without having access to internet. I had to do just that when I moved into this apartment because internet companies in Japan are fucking inefficient as shit and can take a month to schedule the work to be done.

Can you give one of your steam games to someone else, provided you had them in your friend list for 30 days?

disclaimer: I use steam and don't plan on touching the xbone

 

[Owzers]

This is almost inevitable. Sales of games like Diablo 3 and Simcity have already shown that gamers will complain long, hard and loud but in the end they will buy the games they want anyway. Or in this case the platform those games are on.

10 years ago, paying for costumes in fighting games, colors on guns etc would have been a laughable idea. But we bitched and moaned and we bought it all anyway. Because we HAVE TO HAVE IT.

The usual parade of fanboys, paid shills and idiots will keep harping on and on about how this is the future (apparently have less rights than before is the way to go) and how this is no different that Steam (while being completely different from Steam) and once people see that exclusive line up of games at E3, they will start buying into it.

The console will sell. Its inevitable.

I think the most glaring difference will be that we know about this months ahead of time. When i bought Skyrim on ps3, it wasn't because i didn't care that it had a broken framerate after you get 15 hours into the game, it was because no one talked about it in reviews because they played the 360 version and included PS3 in the review. If there were months of " Simcity is broken" before it's release, i'd like to think it would effect sales to some degree. Right now it seems like this will be awareness + whether or not you care about used games/rentals/drm/not being able to play any game if the servers go down + what argument Sony makes. It's fitting that Sony goes last on Monday, they get the final say in this matter.

 

[JDSN]

The Steam shit reminds me of creationists asking "But why do we still have monkeys? "

 

[captmcblack]

There needs to be a STICKIED THREAD that explains why XB1 is *not* like Steam, and there needs to be an end to derailing threads with that comparison.