Support NeoGAF

[ido]

Wowzers.

Finally somewhat caught up with this thread.

This is some pretty fucking detestable shit that Microsoft is doing here. All of it shits all over the consumer, and overly complicates what was once very simple processes.

It kills collecting entirely, as well. The Xbox One is essentially a disposable console. In ten years it will be rendered unusable.

 

[ascii42]

Anyone remember that Sony is the king of rootkit???

I will be pleasantly shocked if Sony doesn't follow M$ footsteps and amazed that M$ was so brazen to go it alone with the DRM rubbish.

Clue for what to expect is already in EA dropping its online pass and the Wii U.

Sony Music != Sony Computer Entertainment

 

[spock]

The point of this all is this:



1. Take our first steps into gaining consumer acceptance into the eradication of used games.
- Next next-gen they will be gone for good.

2. Games are now completely moving into becoming a service.
- No baby steps here, we are completely moving into this and you own nothing.

3. Aimed to battle piracy also



This box is built for publishers, not for consumers. Period.

This is pretty much it. If you look and the way media consumption is changing on the whole you can understand where MS is coming and going from. The whole TV things isnt really even about TV its about media consumption and distribution. The TV focus is just part of the segway being used.

I'm not a fan of the changes and I honestly thought MS was being stupid but the more they revel and the more dots you connect the clearer the picture becomes. MS is not out to screw the consumer. There is a major shift underway and a blending of media and mediums. MS is not leading the charge consumers are with their actions and behaviors. MS is just jumping ahead and future pacing their business decisions on the direction of the currents.

As has been said, subscription based models are pretty much the direction the industry as a whole wants to head. Initial costs will go down but costs over time will go up for the consumer. But odds are more choices & options will be given to the consumer. Thing is, this is all new ground so the details will evolve over time but fundamentally this is the future being created. In some ways its worse obviously but in some ways it will be better. Its bumpy ride for sure.

 

[Bunta]

I want to believe, but they will probably have an almost identical system in place. If the publishers say we will not release games on your system if it does not include, this, this this, and this they will do it sadly.

Never thought these nightmares would actually be true. Gaming may very well be headed for a major industry crash.

It's not the publishers pushing this shit, and they wouldn't dare miss out on the sales by skipping on a console.

I find that amusing, considering MS was planning on implementing this tech before they even shared it with third parties

 

[ido]

Reading this thread makes me want to go back to collecting.

NES, SNES, PS1, PS2, Dreamcast, Sega Saturn, Sega Genesis, CD-i, Neo Geo, N64, Gamecube...

Imagine a console that you can buy and just put a disc into it and play it.

 

[coopolon]

I want to believe, but they will probably have an almost identical system in place. If the publishers say we will not release games on your system if it does not include, this, this this, and this they will do it sadly.

Never thought these nightmares would actually be true. Gaming may very well be headed for a major industry crash.

Publishers can't make a profit selling games today with the giant install base that exists. It seems awfully dangerous to write off half of the already tiny next gen user base when you are barely getting by. If ps4 sells like wiiu then sure, but if is at least mildly successful I can't see ea/acti/ubi really ignoring it.

 

[3rdman]

For those who say "well what about playing my games 10 year from now?"...I'm sure MS has thought of this. The 24 hour checkin might not apply to the life time of the game only say the first 3 years or something like that. They can patch it out or will disable it. People are not going to lose the game they bought. MS is not that stupid and I'm sure they will tweak adjust things as they watch how the new models unfold.

You realize that your point is made about a company that recently declared that everything you've bought up to now will not be playable on future machines. Talk to me in 10 years when your 360 dies and you can't redownload REZ on another machine because the authentication servers were shut down.

 

[bomblord]

 

[NR1]

For those who say "well what about playing my games 10 year from now?"...I'm sure MS has thought of this. The 24 hour checkin might not apply to the life time of the game only say the first 3 years or something like that. They can patch it out or will disable it. People are not going to lose the game they bought. MS is not that stupid and I'm sure they will tweak adjust things as they watch how the new models unfold.

Tell that to people that own DIVX discs...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX

I used to own a DIVX player that I bought back in 1998 for $500. After DIVX went belly up, I was never able to play my DIVX movies again because the player couldn't connect to the servers to authorize the movie to play.

Xbox One is DIVX.

 

[Jac_Solar]

Why would anyone want to buy this console? I don't get it, and it'll probably cost more than 300$!

 

[disastermouse]

The funniest thing I see is the sense of betrayal that Xbox OG and Xbox 360 owners feel. I personally went Mac in 2001 after terrible experiences with Windows 95, 98, and XP (XP got its shit together eventually, but it was a world of pain for me when it first came out). I still got an Xbox and Xbox 360 because MS was doing the right things, at least at first - but I've always dealt with them in an 'eyes-wide-open' way after my switch to Mac. By 2008, Sony was just a better deal to me and PS+ and their overtures to indie developers have cemented them in my mind as a 'gamer's company'. Here's hoping they don't screw the pooch with PS4.

 

[RepairmanJack]

Why would a single person buy this console? I don't get it.

I don't know about you but I've always wanted a box to hook my DVR into to render my DVR's features useless. Who doesn't want to go back to only watching live tv? Those were good times.

 

[RionaaM]

For those who say "well what about playing my games 10 year from now?"...I'm sure MS has thought of this. The 24 hour checkin might not apply to the life time of the game only say the first 3 years or something like that. They can patch it out or will disable it. People are not going to lose the game they bought. MS is not that stupid and I'm sure they will tweak adjust things as they watch how the new models unfold.

Oh, I feel much relieved now. If that's what you believe, then it'll probably be true.

Guys, turns out Microsoft was doing the right thing all along. Their practices might not be anti-consumer, they can take the always online stuff out.

 

[dreamer3kx]

Why would a single person buy this console? I don't get it.

Well its the folks who owned a 360 only really I think, achievements, xbox live, cod with their friends, Halo, GOW.

For me its easy, ps4 just because exclusive games.

 

[NR1]

Hey here's a now hash tag for people to use:

#XboxOneisDIVX

I can't believe I didn't see the similarities earlier. Dead format in the making people.

 

[notoccupanther]

Microsoft wants a piece of the iTunes pie so goes about creating an iTunes for AAA game titles.

So .. lemme speculate here- if games are now tied to the cloud ... all that's needed is ONE COPY of the game to go from the Publisher to MS .. MS copy it to their server and that's it ...
one license paid and they then go on to make $60+ on every sub after that ..

Whereas in the past, a physical medium had to be manufactured, boxed, shipped and sold ... Microsoft now just gets a Soft Copy from EA, installs it on their servers, modulate it so you'll be charged to open up extra features, and charge the end user $60 for the privilege

So, thinking aloud here, are there even environmental savings to be had here whereby there is a decrease in the manufacturing of the physical media ... no .. the 300 thousand servers being set up to capture us all is a countereffect to this .. so they can't even argue that what they're doing is good for the environment

Any way you look at it ... Microsoft you dun goofed!

 

[eznark]

For those who say "well what about playing my games 10 year from now?"...I'm sure MS has thought of this. The 24 hour checkin might not apply to the life time of the game only say the first 3 years or something like that. They can patch it out or will disable it. People are not going to lose the game they bought. MS is not that stupid and I'm sure they will tweak adjust things as they watch how the new models unfold.

Know what else they could do? Turn the servers off and not do that, forcing people to buy their next console. They've already shown they have less than zero regard for their consumers. How bad do you think it will be in five years?

 

[CharmingCharlie]

For those who say "well what about playing my games 10 year from now?"...I'm sure MS has thought of this. The 24 hour checkin might not apply to the life time of the game only say the first 3 years or something like that. They can patch it out or will disable it. People are not going to lose the game they bought. MS is not that stupid and I'm sure they will tweak adjust things as they watch how the new models unfold.

Their past history does not inspire confidence. Remember they shut down the entire original Xbox service with little more than a "Cheers, but tough luck we are doing bigger and better things now so get with the program dude". Not to mention both MS and Sony seem to have an extremely cavalier attitude towards backwards compatibility and ensuring older games remain functional.

I have no doubt if the xbone takes off you will be looking at the 360 version of Xbox live being closed down a few years from now with little more than a "cheers for the money mugs". These companies have no interest in catering for you keeping your game collection.

 

[jdmonmou]

Why would a single person buy this console? I don't get it, and it'll probably cost more than 300$!

Here's what I'm hoping. Sony will choose not to implement DRM and Sony thrashes Microsoft in hardware sales. Microsoft in an effort to appease gamers will release a firmware update to remove the DRM. If it plays out like that, I would buy a Xbone after they reverted back from their policies.

This fall will be depressing if both consoles take the same approach. Ultimately the only thing that would get a company to change is lack of sales, so I do hope the Xbone suffers in the marketplace. These are hard words to say since I was a staunch advocate for the Xbox 360. Microsoft is going too far and I hope they go right over a cliff for this.

 

[Doran902]

the 24 hour check in bugs me a million times more than no used games

although they are shitting all over consumer rights

if sony has the same used game policy but doesnt have the 24 hour check in ill be a sony boy for this generation

i want to be able to take my console to places with no internet and still play them

 

[AxeMan]

The funniest thing I see is the sense of betrayal that Xbox OG and Xbox 360 owners feel. I personally went Mac in 2001 after terrible experiences with Windows 95, 98, and XP (XP got its shit together eventually, but it was a world of pain for me when it first came out). I still got an Xbox and Xbox 360 because MS was doing the right things, at least at first - but I've always dealt with them in an 'eyes-wide-open' way after my switch to Mac. By 2008, Sony was just a better deal to me and PS+ and their overtures to indie developers have cemented them in my mind as a 'gamer's company'. Here's hoping they don't screw the pooch with PS4.

I'm no MS apologist but Win XP SP2, Win 7, 2008 R2 are good OSs

I don't have an XBOX so I can't comment on that but from what I use and support I can't fault them.

I don't like them like I don't like Google. They are a necessary evil but I don't get involved more than absolutely needed

 

[Cornbread78]

The problem is and will continue to be the common gamer is completely blind to everything going on. You're typical bro-gamer does not know of understand any of it and it will not matter to them, they will see "Only on XBone," CoD and Madden, and will buy it without a second thought. MS is banking on that fact and feels it will prosper regardless....

we'll see, just sad for consumers as a whole....

 

[Ponn]

For those who say "well what about playing my games 10 year from now?"...I'm sure MS has thought of this. The 24 hour checkin might not apply to the life time of the game only say the first 3 years or something like that. They can patch it out or will disable it. People are not going to lose the game they bought. MS is not that stupid and I'm sure they will tweak adjust things as they watch how the new models unfold.

Right, like the people that bought online game passes and those servers were shut down in a year. Because game companies wuv you.

 

[BigWeather]

Who are these people still playing NES games on their original NES?

I have a 17" CRT with an Odyssey2 (mine from the 70s), SNES (mine as well), and Atari 2600 (bought a decade or so ago) all hooked up, playable, and about 50 carts between them (including 30+ for the Odyssey2 from when I was a kid). And I play them from time to time.

 

[ultron87]

Well this is gross. Won't be buying this anytime soon unless they make games significantly cheaper digitally.

 

[2real4tv]

Whats the chances that this is just one big pr stunt?

 

[SmokedMeat]

For those who say "well what about playing my games 10 year from now?"...I'm sure MS has thought of this. The 24 hour checkin might not apply to the life time of the game only say the first 3 years or something like that. They can patch it out or will disable it. People are not going to lose the game they bought. MS is not that stupid and I'm sure they will tweak adjust things as they watch how the new models unfold.

It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out when the 360 is phased out. With no bc, what would happen if I buy a new Slim model (to replace a defective older unit) and want to redownload all of my old 360 XBLA games? Will they still be available and where would I download them if Microsoft is no longer selling the 360? I guess I'm wondering how long will the 360 marketplace exist?

 

[RepairmanJack]

Whats the chances that this is just one big pr stunt?

To what end? Piss people off?

 

[disastermouse]

I'm no MS apologist but Win XP SP2, Win 7, 2008 R2 are good OSs

I don't have an XBOX so I can't comment on that but from what I use and support I can't fault them.

I don't like them like I don't like Google. They are a necessary evil but I don't get involved more than absolutely needed

I got XP before SP2. Win7 is indeed a pretty good OS, I use it on my Boot Camp partition. Steam has also made PC gaming about a jillion times more seamless and pleasant regarding drivers and incompatibility issues and whatnot.

Apple support is thousands of times better than MS support and there's no hot potato regarding competing service departments (MS vs PC or PC component maker) each blaming the other for the problem until you give up in frustration.

 

[Edeuinu]

If I have no way to rent games, seriously might be done with gaming. I used redbox for 80% of my gaming the past year and saved so much time and money by doing so.

 

[notoccupanther]

Ahahahahahah!

Microsoft wants us to wait until August ...

WTF??

http://www.vg247.com/2013/06/07/xbo...-exclusives-at-gamescom-xbox-360-e3-surprise/

 

[ido]

I also love how you have to hook this up to your cable box, as if that's convenient. This is like the goddamn tower of power with the Sega Genesis/32X/Sega CD/XBand. You need like 3 fucking reinforced shelves to set all this shit up on.

Not to mention the overly complicated clusterfuck to be able to do anything that was once simple.

XBOX CAN I LET MY FRIEND PLAY

IF HE HOLDS THE CONTROLLER FOR MORE THAN 35 SECONDS THE RIGHTS WILL TRANSFER TO HIM PERMANENTLY CAN I INTEREST YOU IN SOME DORITOS?

 

[x-Lundz-x]

It's not the publishers pushing this shit, and they wouldn't dare miss out on the sales by skipping on a console.

You quoted someone called John Harker, he some kind of insider here on GAF? Everything I have read so far on GAF points to the big three pubs pushing this shit on us.

Publishers can't make a profit selling games today with the giant install base that exists. It seems awfully dangerous to write off half of the already tiny next gen user base when you are barely getting by. If ps4 sells like wiiu then sure, but if is at least mildly successful I can't see ea/acti/ubi really ignoring it.

Which is why this is boggling my mind they are pushing for this sort of anti-consumer approach to next gen. I just can't imagine the big pubs would let it slide that one console has all these "features" and the other does not.

 

[Knux-Future]

I will say this.

I rent games but can live without it.

I sell games but that has slowed down a lot

I impulse buy a lot of shit or just buy games day 1 a lot.

My internet while spotty is basically always on, like I can't play my PS3 without connection..it just bugs me..OCD.

and yet...this is pretty awful as it takes away the option..for no damn reason. All of this should simply be optional. Wanna install your shit? Deal with this system. Want sell or just lend shit, then you can't install shit. That's a give and take...how it should be.

I was pretty upbeat going into E3 that this would be a non-issue for Sony at the least but now? I am in complete justification mode.. Sony won't require online and if they don't do pay to play shit (which honestly is a bigger deal breaker than everything else for me..fuck that shit), then I'd swallow the DRM shit at this point. but man...E3 is supposed to be about hype..not wondering how hard you are going to take it up the butt. I hope MS (and Sony if they do something as evil) get fucked haaaard for this. I'm talking lawsuits out the ass, server issues and more. I want them to tank at this point..and yet..I don't.

Guys I love games. So I'm not gonna act like I'm gonna boycott a PS4 (can't really call not buying an XBone a boycott since that never really was gonna happen anyway). It will come down to the games for me. I'd adapt because I fucking love games. I can't go PC only because the games I like aren't there. I can't go Nintendo only because they seem to love going intop droughts too much (I will buy a Wii U first if Sony lets me down), and my backlog is ok but there is a reason those games are in the backlog. So yeah this whole thing is a massive fucking bummer.

I miss just being able to enjoy games without having to worry about dumb shit like this.

So heres hoping that Sony does the "right" thing...my confidence is very low right now. But there is some hope I guess.

1. No DRM rumors like MS (the RFID thing was for movies I think)
2. Their vauge comments can be spun positively unlike MS's vauge comments
3. No always online virtually confirmed by insiders
4.Bunch of free to play games...would be kinda dumb if online play was paywall
5. Vita: If Sony was gonna change some stuff this gen...they would have tested it with vita. Online play is still free and it doesn't block used (this is a reach lol)
6. That DRM troll post would look mighty bad if they had overly restrictive DRM
7. The parappa post...
8. Sony seems to give a shit about countries that aren't the US/UK. They are a Japanese company and hopefully that matters for something..Nintendo didn't block (although that might be to other reasons).

I am reaching on all of those of course but I hope they have some truth to them.

meeeeh.

Just telling yall now..I am weak and will succumb to games sorry.

 

[jimi_dini]

Hey here's a now hash tag for people to use:

#XboxOneisDIVX

I can't believe I didn't see the similarities earlier. Dead format in the making people.

Nah
just

#DIVXbone or rather #DIVXbox

Haha, just watching Angry Rant Pt. 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryB-hdtpQRw (it's surely already linked on here). Microsoft can't really believe that they will get through with this.

 

[BigWeather]

For those who say "well what about playing my games 10 year from now?"...I'm sure MS has thought of this. The 24 hour checkin might not apply to the life time of the game only say the first 3 years or something like that. They can patch it out or will disable it. People are not going to lose the game they bought. MS is not that stupid and I'm sure they will tweak adjust things as they watch how the new models unfold.

They may. So may Steam. But there is no guarantee (and no, a quote from Valve saying "I'm sure we would patch it out if we go under..." doesn't count).

So anything I buy that involves a third party for me to be able to play the game is immediately considered a disposeable purchase -- and I won't pay more than $10 - 20 for it.

 

[Curufinwe]

They really need to let people get around the 24 hour online check by having the disc in the drive as the DRM. Then you could play your single player Xbone games offline as much as you like.

 

[Flo_Evans]

From your cable box. Is that connected to the internet for you? The xbox connects to your cable box, so you can watch tv.

Allot of TV is Internet based now. Mine is.

 

[NR1]

Nah
just

#DIVXbone or rather #DIVXBOX

.

Very nice, and much cleaner.

 

[GoddyofAus]

Ahahahahahah!

Microsoft wants us to wait until August ...

WTF??

http://www.vg247.com/2013/06/07/xbo...-exclusives-at-gamescom-xbox-360-e3-surprise/

I don't think 100 exclusives is going to save MS now. Who cares.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

Hope everyone who buys this "gaming" console enjoys it. This thing plays its customers not the other way around, it doesnt sound good, and who gives a shit if its not as bad as we thought. This is like getting a pizza but the sausage is actually made of shit, and you can only eat it when youre permitted.
The industry needs a reset .

 

[Kimawolf]

Yeah.. I'm jumping out. That's too much BS for me. This is PURELY for developers and publishers plain and simple, nothing for the consumer at all. How can they "allow" me to trade a game I paid for.

 

[Mailenstein]

I hope the EU takes care of this anti-consumer BS from Microsoft.

 

[hlhbk]

I'll play my ps4 or vita or pc or arcade machines until the problem is resolved. there's no point wondering about "what ifs" until they happen.

You mean like the PSN outage or the fact that all of the Xbox origional servers were shut down after 8 years? How can you possibly defend this or not care about it. This isn't about politics, its about not letting MS bend us all over.

The Sega Saturn has been out for almost 20 years, and I can still play it. Based on the new setup you can't tell me you're confident you will be able to do the same with Xbox One?

 

[AxeMan]

I got XP before SP2. Win7 is indeed a pretty good OS, I use it on my Boot Camp partition. Steam has also made PC gaming about a jillion times more seamless and pleasant regarding drivers and incompatibility issues and whatnot.

Apple support is thousands of times better than MS support and there's no hot potato regarding competing service departments (MS vs PC or PC component maker) each blaming the other for the problem until you give up in frustration.

This isn't anything to do with this thread so I won't reply to derail needlessly

 

[Hypereides]

From a legel perspective all these restrictions are blurry. I don't feel comfortable about how invasive the console is either.

 

[JonathanPower]

Here's my thinking:

• I HATE Gamestop, and I hate how they rip people off with used games sales, but I think selling a game to another person directly is perfectly fine.
  
• I think there's a massive conglomerate of the game playing world that has either shitty internet, or no internet.
  
• I know Microsoft has to do something because of publisher pressure (not they probably mind doing it), but this is too extreme.
  
• ANYONE who thinks Sony is going to be some savior is out of their god damned minds.

I've said this before, Sony is going to avoid the always online DRM stuff because they want to be able to sell consoles in countries where internet infrastructures are not solid. Now, I don't really think that MS had to implement the DRM because of publisher pressures, I think that this was a MS plan in the first place, which was, obviously, welcomed by the publishers.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

It would be great if PS4 allowed used games without any catches and had no DRM, but I have a strong feeling Sony will follow in Microsoft's footsteps in some way. The PS4 just sounds too good to be true right now. I don' t think Microsoft would give Sony such a significant advantage over their console on a silver platter like that. Surely they are presumably observing their competition. Again, I am not looking forward to next generation at all like so many people because I think it could be the beginning of the end for the industry mostly due to the current industry direction, moronic business decisions and corporate greed.

People keep saying, Wii U can save us. Wii U!!!!! Wii U!!!!!! I am not convinced yet. It allows used games, no DRM etc and I must commend Nintendo for that, but one of primary problems is the Wii U is severely underpowered and they do not attract the same demographics as Microsoft and Sony, so that could definitely overshadow their advantages. Unless you are REALLY into Nintendo first party exclusives and maybe a handful of exclusives, I am still not sure if casual gamers would/should procure a Wii U over a PS3 or X360. I would expect that PS3 and X360 will see new software for at least another couple of years, if not more and everyone is not going to be so quick to leave that colossal userbase behind, especially with next generation being so expensive. Yeah, I think we could be heading for a crash and it will mostly be because of greed, unrealistic expectations and mismanagement of money. *sigh*

 

[Sola Scriptura]

Don't forget to let your thoughts be heard via a comment on Major Nelson's blog.

http://majornelson.com/2013/06/06/details-on-xbox-one-connectivity-licensing-and-privacy-features/

 

[LiK]

I hope the EU takes care of this anti-consumer BS from Microsoft.

i think so too.