That's basically what Smash Balls do though, except in that some transformations also make the character invulnerable.
Sakurai confirms Smash trailer at E3 direct!
- Thread starter KojiKnight
- Start date
That's basically what Smash Balls do though, except in that some transformations also make the character invulnerable.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Yep, very safe choices for stages. I really hope that we will get those stages.
Especially VENUS LIGHTHOUSE!
Lol people think smash balls are fun. I haven't played a single torunament where they are not disabled.
If Smash Balls were enabled, characters with ranged attacks (Ness) or excellent air moves would dominate the picks because people wouldn't take picks that had a tougher time getting smash balls. The floating ball design is just bad for the game.
I would like a Smash meter type of thing. Tough to say how it would be implemented. If they put better combos in, you could fill the meter for comboing.
If Smash Balls were enabled, characters with ranged attacks (Ness) or excellent air moves would dominate the picks because people wouldn't take picks that had a tougher time getting smash balls. The floating ball design is just bad for the game.
I would like a Smash meter type of thing. Tough to say how it would be implemented. If they put better combos in, you could fill the meter for comboing.
Solid SOAP
Member
I hope that this Smash finally gives us "Mushroom Kingdom 3" as a stage. Smash Bros. 64 got SMB1's 1-1, Melee got SMB2's Subcon, but Brawl got shit. I wanna see a Mario 3 inspired level.
Solid SOAP
Member
I don't see the problem with Smash balls. Don't like 'em? Turn 'em off. I love playing with items, the spontaneity of the items are what make Smash fun for me.
I just hope that any kind of Final Smash mechanic is more balanced. I found the usefulness of the finals to be extremely variable and kind of thoughtless. Like, being able to pop a tank as Fox doesn't really do anything for him; it doesn't fit into his gameplan. You just become a tank and try to wreck shit or whatever. It doesn't up any interesting new possibilities.
Choppasmith
Member
Well, in all fairness, we got Mario Bros and 75m, so I wouldn't say Brawl got nothing. I do agree, a new retro stage actually from an SMB would be nice.
I will be very disappointed if Shulk, Reyn and Zael are not playable characters in SSB4.
And where did you get this? What whiteboard is this suppose to represent?Marth ain't going anywhere. Never mind that he's the original hero and the series' most well known character;
he at the very least isn't going anywhere based on this:
I can't imagine that anyone on here isn't safe from being cut.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
It was from Sakurai's twitter. He came into work one day (a few months ago) to see that the staff had drawn that on a whiteboard for fun. It's probably not indicative of anything other than the previous Smash Bros. games.
Spring-Loaded
Member
What about if you like the idea of super moves, but don't like that 1) they are only available through an item 2) faster characters with projectiles are more likely to get them 3) they're in no way tied to overall performance?
How can you say it's as simple as turning off smash balls. Seriously, how.
Don't forget the amount of damage it takes to break them is random! So heavier chars don't have any adv. at all.
Solid SOAP
Member
It's as simple as balancing the game better than they balanced Brawl, which they said was a major project for this game above all.
I really, truly don't care about the stuff you mentioned though. I don't play Smash competitively, nor do most people. The way I see it, those who play competitively would rather not have the Smash ball, so I think that for those who like the spontaneous ridiculous of Smash can keep the Smash ball on, making their matches more about luck and chance than skill, and those who would rather have their game be played more skill-fully can turn it off. I think that's a rather simple fix.
Tournament Players - turning everything into Street Fighter since 1992.
Megalosaro
Banned
Because tournament rules are based on "fun", right? Last I checked, they were based on balance. Fun doesn't have to be balanced.
As a long-time Melee player, I'm holding out hope that the involvement of the various Namco teams is a sign that they're respecting the competitive side of the game more this time around than they did with Brawl. Even if we see gameplay at E3, though, I don't think it will be possible to tell if that's holding up or not.
On the casual end of the spectrum, one thing I'm really hoping to see for the new SSB (that probably won't be visible in this trailer) is a wider variety of alternate costumes. I liked that they had both the Warioware and Warioland versions of Wario in Brawl, but that was just one character and I hope they do more of those this time around. Some more complicated costumes like an alt that turns Peach into Rosalina would be great too.
On the casual end of the spectrum, one thing I'm really hoping to see for the new SSB (that probably won't be visible in this trailer) is a wider variety of alternate costumes. I liked that they had both the Warioware and Warioland versions of Wario in Brawl, but that was just one character and I hope they do more of those this time around. Some more complicated costumes like an alt that turns Peach into Rosalina would be great too.
It's not about it being competitive. It's about making the game better. Turning them off does not fix Smash Balls.
Why make the sequel if you want nothing fixed? Or changed? Smash Balls are part of the game as much as any other part and deserve to be looked at. Whether it's merely turning them into a glorified more traditional fighting game mechanic or altering them to make them better. Leaving them untouched just because players can turn them off is a poor choice.
Yes, because every game that has a meter ever is Street Fighter.
All those characters are probably in the game.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
That's interesting, since Fox, Falco, and Wolf's final smashes all have different appearances, attack powers, and lengths of duration. Why did they go through all that trouble if they were lazy enough to only code Fox's?
I like the sounds of that Awakening system. I'd be fine with a meter too.
Professor Beef
Banned
No it isn't.
No idea really. I'm not sure where Falco's differences are stored, it might be within the same file as Fox's but is only used when Falco calls to the file, possibly. I guess it's not really lazy so much as it is just keeping it "kind of clean" in the sense that they don't have two files of basically the same thing. At least Wolf's is a separate file because it uses a different model.
I feel like I remember hearing before that there's a comeback mechanic involved with smash balls where players who are losing don't have to hit them as much. I don't remember where I saw that, though, so it could've been a joke. I don't think it's random, though.
Troubled Bat
Member
Well when a player is losing, in last place. They tend to spawn with the Final Smash ready for them to use.
*shrugs* Guess I never really played with them long enough to really *know* how many hits are always needed.
In any case, there's problems with the system they introduced and they should either adjust accordingly or do something else. I don't much personally care for items but they should be fun and work as intended and Smash Balls, as well as to an extension Final Smashes, did not work as intended. Risk/reward is all out of whack, lots of the cast don't get the same "reward" for using their Final Smash compared to others, and ... some were just completely avoidable and thus useless (Kirby sticks out like a sore thumb in this case).
And don't get me started how regular items were a thousand times better than any single character's Final Smash, lmao.
Spring-Loaded
Member
This isn't binary; there aren't only people who play in tourneys and people who play with all items and don't care who wins. There are people that fall between both categories. The "I don't care, why should you?" argument about anything that only affects the person who would be saying the statement should be thrown out forever
The only way to "balance" the Smash Ball as it is to change the amount of hits it takes a slower character to open it and have the ball gravitate toward them. That's still uncontrollably random and if people who and I know this will sound crazy, but bear with me have fun playing without a lot of random variables who also want to have super moves, they have to introduce this item that has a mind of its own.
Or they can have a meter tied to it. Have a toggle to turn it on or off for each player. Have a handicap-like option for each player that decides how the meter is filled (for playing well, for taking more damage, over time, Etc.). Those people mentioned above get to enjoy using super moves without having to allow more randomness than they enjoy.
Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who only played Melee with items on. It was when I started playing Brawl that I turned them off because they were only worthless or overpowered. I like mayhem that must be maneuvered/dealt with, but I don't like absolutely random, unbalanced mayhem. There are ways to appease everyone to high degrees; saying "oh well, I don't mind" is not good enough
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
I agree, but I don't think that that's what that picture means.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Right, it's just great artwork. I think Sakurai deleted it like couple of hours later in fear of people assuming that they are 100% in the game awhile one of them probably not.
NeonZ
Member
Well, it seemed to be some homage to Sakurai himself. It isn't an official indicator of anything, but I doubt they'd go out of their way to include there characters that they aren't working on.
Speaking of Rosalina, I hope she is a playable fighter in the game.
The Galaxy games were both critical and financial successes and SMG1&2 left their mark on last gen. So I have a feeling that she will be in the game.
Also, what's great is that since we don't see much of her they can do pretty much whatever they want with her fighting style wise. I mean shes like a sorceress so their is magic but she could also have a Luma with her and some of her moves could involve the Luma helping her either defensively or offensively.
I think she's be a great addition and one of the few characters that could pull me away from Samus.
edit:
changing gears,
Now that I've thought about it, I think doing a Meter style final smash set up would be better then smash balls. Like the other guy mentioned a page back, doing something like SF4s Ultras would be cool. I'm ok with this.
The Galaxy games were both critical and financial successes and SMG1&2 left their mark on last gen. So I have a feeling that she will be in the game.
Also, what's great is that since we don't see much of her they can do pretty much whatever they want with her fighting style wise. I mean shes like a sorceress so their is magic but she could also have a Luma with her and some of her moves could involve the Luma helping her either defensively or offensively.
I think she's be a great addition and one of the few characters that could pull me away from Samus.
edit:
changing gears,
Now that I've thought about it, I think doing a Meter style final smash set up would be better then smash balls. Like the other guy mentioned a page back, doing something like SF4s Ultras would be cool. I'm ok with this.
He damn well better not be going anywhere. Easily my favorite character to play in both Melee and Brawl.
Also there better not be anymore of that bloody tripping business.
Professor Beef
Banned
There's a Brawl mod that lets anyone do their Final Smash after they've dealt 200% worth of damage. I thought that was a nice touch.
Read a book? I dunno.
She has god space powers
Throw stars
comets at you
manipulate gravity
stuff like that.
That's not a bad way to do it. Gives you something to work towards but still has the chaotic randomiser element of the Smash Balls. If you can toggle the Smash balls on and off, too...
Shoot star bits.
Professor Beef
Banned
I think the mod had them disabled by default, it's been a while. A friend needed help testing it since it came with a bunch of balance changes, and of course a lot of the Final Smashes themselves had to be modified so that they'd be more useful.
Marth's was still too good, though.
I just want something more cartoony than Brawl.
I also want a Cel Link that's actually cel-shaded. Not gonna happen though.
Ya, exactly, she's like a god/sorceress. I was thinking magic that involves stars/space. The field is wide open, they could mold her into any existing archetype or create a new one.
2D artworks on 3D backgrounds.