Jimquisition: Why PC Gaming Gets Away With It
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
Ingueferroque
Banned
I LOVE YOU JIM
lordciansworth
Neo Member
I've always wondered that myself. Appears like massive double standards on face value.
There is possibly a steam trading system in the works. All speculation but still maybe Valve is up to something.
BibiMaghoo
Member
I'm not really into watching people talk about games on Youtube or anything else.
But I have been watching these regularly. He is a clever dude.
But I have been watching these regularly. He is a clever dude.
alexandros
Banned
Good video.
SolarPowered
Member
Another excellent Jimquisition. He pretty much hits all the points regarding the pluses of digital gaming on the PC. If I'm given the choice between an open platform and a closed one for digital gaming I'll always take the open one. Competition keeps everyone from Steam to Origin in check.
JerryThePredator
Banned
I've thought the same.
I am happy with digital game sales when there is competition. The Xbox One wouldn't have had that.
Watching every even only vaguely DRM and pre-180 Xbone related thread fill up with the steam defense was infuriating. Thank you, Jim.
It is a sad state of affairs indeed when we gamers are so easily divided on such basic issues. This should have been crystal clear from the beginning.
It is a sad state of affairs indeed when we gamers are so easily divided on such basic issues. This should have been crystal clear from the beginning.
Delusibeta
Banned
No, and that's a fairly major omission. Used games was dead on PC well before Steam got into gear.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Great points. I really appreciate that you addressed this issue Jim, so i don´t have to hear that bullshit comparison anymore.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
This is why Microsoft found itself in such a predicament. They needed to please retailers while wanting to go fully digital. For the consumer who is stuck in the middle they see less incentives. If Microsoft (or Sony for that matter) were able to come out and say digital copies were even $10 cheaper that would have made a big difference. They didn't and history has shown console digital game sales can't compete with the PC. Then you have services like Playstation + that actually charge you to get better discounts and those discounts still can't compete.
Steam and GOG also have much better relationships with their customers. They also allow user content more, so again there are closer ties from the developer to the gamer. Sony is now hiding behind a pay-wall to play multi-player, just like Xbox Live always had.
Backwards compatibility is another huge issue, it's no wonder we want physical discs still.
Jim once again nails it.
Steam and GOG also have much better relationships with their customers. They also allow user content more, so again there are closer ties from the developer to the gamer. Sony is now hiding behind a pay-wall to play multi-player, just like Xbox Live always had.
Backwards compatibility is another huge issue, it's no wonder we want physical discs still.
Jim once again nails it.
What allowed DD to flourish on PC was the death of PC retail in the US. There was no entrenched interest group fighting DD in the 2nd largest PC market. I think PC retail died in certain parts of Europe too, though I don't know.
razgriz417
Member
Great vid, pretty much common sense to me, don't understand why so many have trouble wrapping their head around this with Steam vs Xbone always online arguments
Uno Venova
Banned
I'd be great if everyone had the common sense that his videos have had recently. There would be a lot less headaches.
Is this really an issue? I have seriously not seen many people bring up PC/Steam during the digital/Xbone debate, and when they do they get shot down instantly.
Uno Venova
Banned
Now that I think about it, it was just mostly junior astroturfers, but man it derailed so many threads.
Phire Phox
Banned
I still see retail PC games sold at Walmart and Best Buy. I would have thought Steam/GMG/Origin would have wiped them out. I wonder if retail PC gaming is still financially beneficial to retailers.
Frank Jaeger
Member
razgriz417
Member
Yup this was a key point from all the astroturfing juniors during the past month
And the reason the prices get so cheap is competition. Sure, Steam is the big one (and pretty much runs PC retail now with so many discs registering on it) but it's not the only retailer like Microsoft would be on the Xbox One.
Steam doesn't have its sales out of the good of Valve's heart, it's to stay competitive. Originally with retail, now with Origin, UPlay, GreenManGaming, Gamersgate, etc etc. If a console were to do something similar, it would only work well by allowing third party download stores on their system.
John Rabbit
Banned
it's not the only reason. it's a major motivating factor, but as the OP video explains, price is one of many good reasons.
soul creator
Member
I always assumed the "it's similar to Steam" point was just to show that all of the DRM/banning used games/etc. talk was an economic issue, and not a "moral" one, as some may have framed it.
I've always agreed with that. A console would obviously have an uphill battle when it comes to justifying DRM compared to a PC, but I was never opposed to console DRM in principle as some sort of anti-consumer rights thing. I would just be opposed to it due to it being a way worse value.
I've always agreed with that. A console would obviously have an uphill battle when it comes to justifying DRM compared to a PC, but I was never opposed to console DRM in principle as some sort of anti-consumer rights thing. I would just be opposed to it due to it being a way worse value.
there are also drm free solutions out there. there are options with drm that have come and gone. competition within the platform for both price and services and backwards compatibility (particularly with gog) are what make it acceptable.
Visualante2
Member
Surprised Jim brushed over GMG's capsule trade ins. Still core point that competition drives innovation and value is the main thing nay sayers don't get.
That said I have shared account on a couple of non Steam products before with friends. And that's nice from time to time. Wouldn't risk it with my Steam account.
That said I have shared account on a couple of non Steam products before with friends. And that's nice from time to time. Wouldn't risk it with my Steam account.
The Dutch Slayer
Member
While we know Valve encourages sales to publishers, they can only offer sales on their own products. Publishers themselves determine the sales price on Steam and other PC storefronts. These same publishers do not offer sales on consoles at near the frequency or discount.
So ask yourself why publishers like Square are willing to discount so much on PC but not other platforms. It isn't because there is online store competition.
It boils down to trading away rights for benefits. We accept Steam/DRM because we get a lot out of it like community features, mod databases, automatic updating, massive sales, and... well that's basically what the video in the OP is all about. Microsoft was taking a lot away and giving almost nothing in return, and smart people recognized that and criticized that.
I think I've said this before but the Xbone was taking in the both the problems of the PC platform and console platform with half the benefits.
I think I've said this before but the Xbone was taking in the both the problems of the PC platform and console platform with half the benefits.
I wouldn't take this as a sign of anything that's definitely going to happen without an official Valve announcement.
Good video although I feel differently about the DRM situation on PC as for me convenience and cheaper prices aren't a big enough advantage to make DRM acceptable. But that's just me. I understand why many accept or even like Steam & Co and why it's not the same as the Xbone DRM how it was planned.
And at least in my country you could even rent PC games from stores.
I enjoyed PC gaming as I grew up. Many great PC exclusive games and lots of multiplatform games. I don't really see how PC gaming was shitty a few years ago.
Before this whole DRM trend started there was nothing stopping you from selling used games because the CD keys were only checked offline and you could easily sell and buy used games on for example ebay.
And at least in my country you could even rent PC games from stores.
dgrdsv
Member
Most of them are activated on Steam / Origin / Uplay anyway. When you buy a DVD copy you just don't have to download all the data from the system, but essentially you're buying the same thing. It's basically made for those who don't have a good enough Internet connection to download ~10 GBs of files.
Well, in the same way it was supposed to be on Xbone.
The Cowboy
Member
I didn't, it kinda takes away from the point and without it, it would have been an almost perfect video. I rolled my eyes when he did that because it simply wasn't needed at all (he does this often, ruins very good videos with little bits that aren't needed).
Apart from the above mentioned issue, vey good video but it should have highlighted that the used game PC market was pretty much gone before Steam came along.
Great video but I have one point to raise.
Many digital storefronts like GMG, Amazon, etc. largely function as Steam key sellers.
Steam does have a pseudo monopoly on PC gaming. Some people don't mind since Steam offers many useful services. Others are reticent of tying all their games to one service.
There are non-Steam options (Jim mentioned GOG), but the competition among many retailers revolves mostly around selling keys for one client/site/platform
Many digital storefronts like GMG, Amazon, etc. largely function as Steam key sellers.
Steam does have a pseudo monopoly on PC gaming. Some people don't mind since Steam offers many useful services. Others are reticent of tying all their games to one service.
There are non-Steam options (Jim mentioned GOG), but the competition among many retailers revolves mostly around selling keys for one client/site/platform