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Fighting Games Weekly | June 24-30 | Twitch, pay your paaAAAaartners for god's sake!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
I'd be shocked if a lower venue fee lead to a sufficiently dramatic increase in attendance to make up for the 50% loss in revenue being proposed. The less a TO ends up in the hole after an event, the more likely they'll continue to hold events in the future.
Has this been confirmed? I know for a while there was a model people thought was the equivalent but actually wasn't lag-free. Not to mention this is listed as an eIPS panel ... and while it's not impossible, IPS tends to not be lag-free.
Shouta
Member
That, lol.
Jaxel would count too, shitty business decisions and the situations where he wasn't expecting to get paid aside. As I recall, Jaxel was streaming WB7 off his own 4G and paid for it himself when he was doing the event for Big-E. I'm pretty sure that was the case because I recall sp00ky saying he was doing it off 4G then too but my memory is a little fuzzy about that. If he doesn't normally get paid by Big-E for events and they're using 4G, who's paying for it? Probably Jaxel. Hence why there was a donation jar at the event.
Seasoned Badger
Member
my vh236h is too bright already and I have it at 40% brightness, I can't imagine one being brighter.
Yeah, I have mine set to 0% brightness (to reduce eye strain).
riskVSreward
Member
If only my 360 had hdmi...
Not enough to offset the cost.
For most folks in the FGC going to a major is similar to anime fans going to an anime con, or comic fans to a comic con. They're really cons.
This is why I think UFGT has the right approach.
Did Jaxel get paid for EVO 2012? No matter how much folks dislike Jaxel- the VF comm is always going to like him for the work he did there. EVO 2012 made VF viable enough for Sega Cup to happen. It wouldn't have happened if it wasn't streamed.
scytheavatar
Member
Did anyone refuse to pay Jaxel what they promised to pay? I though Jaxel made it clear that Big E never offered to pay him anything. And I don't see why he can't do that, it's not like Big E is forcing Jaxel to work for free. Big E simply doesn't see it as a necessity of have Jaxel streaming in his events, and as a TO he's entitled to make that decision. Jaxel should be making Big E desperate to retain his service at any cost, and his arrogance is obviously preventing Big E from doing that. No one is pointing a gun at his head forcing him to stream events for free, and neither do I see why he has the right to point guns at TOs head forcing them to pay for his services if they don't want his services.
ian to the max
Member
Currently being uploaded to Tough Cookie TV, but they're only up to top sixteen in AE 2012 at the moment.
BillyBones
Neo Member
No, you HOPE more people would sign up if the venue fees were lower, but you have no way of actually knowing this until you try it and the numbers would have to DRASTICALLY increase for you to make the same amount.
So now your plan has changed from 500 people at $40 venue fee (really $35 after you take out the fees) to 1000 people at $20 venue fee (really $15 after you take out the fees.) Because the fees haven't really changed you're now bringing in less revenue. So ok, let's say 1500 people at $20 venue fee ($15 after fees.)
Hey look, your revenue has gone up by 28%! Sounds like a great idea right? Well, your costs are going to jump dramatically. You now need two to three times the space, two to three times the number of setups, power, etc.
Additionally, your costs are going to go up because your choices are now more limited. You are too big for a lot of venues. So where as before, there were three or four places you were shopping at to hold your event, now there are two, one of which is booked the whole month you want your event. Now you're at the whim of one hotel which probably knows it has you over a barrel and is isn't going to be very willing to negotiate on room blocks, etc.
Also, they're probably going to try to hold you up for more money at some point down the line because you're just a bunch of loud kids who probably don't know any better. After you hire a lawyer and have them write a few scary letters they'll probably back down but now that's another thing you have to pay for.
This is IF everything works out and all those people show up. If only the same 500 show up you now have lost 60% of your original revenue AND at least doubled your costs not to mention the rooms you're on the hook for as you didn't fill your block.
$40 is dirt cheap for a multiday event fee. Powerlifting meets are at least that if they're just a one day event (and are $35 entry per event typically.) You want to enter a multiday event like nationals? That number doubles. Not to mention you have to pay a yearly membership fee to enter any of them.
Ever enter a marathon? At the big ones, from the first wave starting to the expo closing is 12 hours at the absolute most. They cost hundreds of dollars to enter despite the fact that they have 30,000 people signed up and a sponsorship list the size of a children's novel.
EarlyEarly
Member
People shouldn't be citing Devastation in these arguments.
Get a good IPS panel and you'll never want to go back. The main thing for me is the difference in color reproduction. The colors are so much richer on an IPS panel. Now may not be a good time to buy a monitor since any minute now there will be refreshes of what's on the market.
Ragingnight
Member
Parallax Scroll
Banned
This is something that JamesMK has talked about a lot on OBS. He says too many majors aren't worth attending for less experienced players because there's nothing to do after you go 0-2. He wants tournaments to be more like a convention, so everyone, even the pot monsters, have a great experience the whole weekend.
Which makes it so much weirder to hear him shit talk UFGT.
I'm still laughing about it.
Shouta
Member
If a TO does not see the necessity for a streamer to work at the event, then he can simply turn down the offer of service. It's as simple as that. If he accepts the streamer accepts to work for free then he has the right refuse to pay him for service should he ask for it later. However, that does not make it right for the TO to have the streamer foot the bill. They're working for free, not paying to work. That's real scumbag shit. I don't know if it was true or not but this was supposedly the case for Jaxel at WB7.
Shouta
Member
As much as that makes sense, it unfortunately doesn't work like that. If they charge a lower venue fee, that means they have to make concessions elsewhere to run the event. One is to use cheaper venue but then it comes back to bite them because then folks complain about the venue being not as nice as it should be. So you gotta pay more for a nice venue or pay less and get something that works.
Shouta
Member
Did you read the rest of my posts? Even if he's not expecting to get paid, making him foot the bill to stream is ridiculous.
AnkiRendan
Member
Man. Playing Project X Zone makes me want to use a Frank/Hsien-Ko team. Would probably bring in Tron as the "Solo" unit. I love this game, even if it lacks Sengoku Basara and Yakuza characters...
Then that's on him to say "if you want me to stream, cover X." It's seriously that simple. You can't hold against E something Jaxel knowingly and willingly did many times over the course of years.
But don't do it anyway and then bitch about it later.
Silver_key
Neo Member
I was wondering last night what would happen if regionals and nationals were not streamed (or blacked-out like football until attendance made it profitable). I honestly don't know if it would kill the scene or push people into being interested in local events. Anyone know how well Japanese pay-per-view tournaments were received?
I honestly think this is the most handy app out there for Android in terms of fighting game news. You can even set up a widget on your home screen that displays quick previews of articles. This is how I have it set on my home screen (currently set to pitchfork since I'm more of a music guy than fighting game guy but you get the idea)
What I really want the TOs to do is to tell us the cost of running a tournament and how much money they actually make from it. Perhaps they can tell us how much sponsors actually finance the tournament. This transparency could end all this talk about whether or not TOs actually make $30k.
It's trendy to shit talk Keits in the FGC. Even if it is undeserved IMO.
I just wish UFGT was on a better weekend and not in Chicago- those are two strikes against it.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
SweetJohnnyCage gives a breakdown of his costs for ECT in the Jaxel thread.
Sweet Johnny Cage already posted about this in the Jaxel-gaf thread. Essentially, after the major expense of running the tournament, whatever they do make is split up among the organizers of ECT. However, he also noted that money gets reinvested into the tournament. I would highly recommend checking that thread out, specifically his posts which are in more recent pages.
Shouta
Member
No, it's not that simple.
Not paying him for his time working the stream is OK as he said he's fine with it. But making him pay for the stream data itself? That's wholly unreasonable, bordering on outright insane.
Everyone thinks that companies like the ones that do the Cutco Kinves (Vector, as I recall?) are scum while still acknowledging that folks that fall for it are stupid. So why does Big-E gets a pass in this even though we've established Jaxel's stupidity? It should not be a free pass for scummy conduct, if what was said is true.
Yeah, as everyone said there's a breakdown by SJC in the main Jaxel thread. It still doesn't really answer how much they come out in the black but one can extrapolate that information. But generally, it's nowhere near 30k. A good showing might net you a couple of k if you're lucky.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I think learning taokaka in BB has permanently damaged my thumb. Fuck...
Not sure where you're trying to take this with the Cutco reference, but to paint it as Jaxel being tricked or not getting what he was promised is disingenuous.
Anyway, this conversation is feeling pretty pointless.
I stopped using the D-Pad years ago.
RZA's favourite fighting game at 5:28. Just before that he describes his love for the Silver Surfer and Galactus. Silver Surfer for MvC4.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I can't play stick because of the muscles in my upper arm that control finger movement upwards no longer work in my right hand.
And by damaged my thumb I mean strained the muscles in it. Which is a bit shocking as I normally play fighting games for hours nonstop....
But yeah Taokaka... oh well it will be worth it in the end lol
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
IF YOU LET ME PLAY AS THE RZA IN THE NEXT TEKKEN I WILL BUY YOUR STUPID GAME
Armada, the widely considered best player of SSBM, is having a last minute player fund to get him and his younger brother, Android, to EVO. I know this was already talked about briefly in this thread (probably) but there's been some updates.
With 4 days left until EVO registration closes, it seems some people of the Smash Community have spoken to Armada about generating some incentives or what have you; where what you buy will go towards Armada's fund (the goal being $2600 for both him and his brother).
The reason he's doing this is because he wants his younger brother Android to experience this tournament; but he knew that no one would want to fund a rather unknown player (in terms of skill). So him going as well ensures there's some interest in donating.
He also said that if he takes first place, he will pay back everybody who donated with the winnings. If he gets second, he'll pay back 50% of his winnings. And obviously if he doesn't get either of those places, he won't be able to pay people back.
Anyway, the main reason I'm posting this is because of this swag as heck shirt that if it reaches its goal of 160 reserves, the funds will go to Armada and Android and anything excess will either be put towards the SSBM EVO pot (if the EVO staff allow it) or another player if the money will be enough to help them to go.
Check it out: http://teespring.com/armada
Decal: http://brokenshard.storenvy.com/products/1775336-armada-vinyl-decal-evo-fundraising
Player funds aren't entirely uncommon for the Smash scene and having Armada there would really put on the best show possible; having both the OLD best player (Ken) and the NEW (Armada) would be quite the spectacle (on top of other old players coming back like Shiz and Jman there). But if Armada doesn't make it, it's not a complete loss.
Just FYI Armada is also an international player so that's why the goal is pretty steep.
Personally, I wish he had made this decision sooner, I really doubt the goal will be reached in time. Currently he has received $250 in donations over the past 2 days.
With 4 days left until EVO registration closes, it seems some people of the Smash Community have spoken to Armada about generating some incentives or what have you; where what you buy will go towards Armada's fund (the goal being $2600 for both him and his brother).
The reason he's doing this is because he wants his younger brother Android to experience this tournament; but he knew that no one would want to fund a rather unknown player (in terms of skill). So him going as well ensures there's some interest in donating.
He also said that if he takes first place, he will pay back everybody who donated with the winnings. If he gets second, he'll pay back 50% of his winnings. And obviously if he doesn't get either of those places, he won't be able to pay people back.
Anyway, the main reason I'm posting this is because of this swag as heck shirt that if it reaches its goal of 160 reserves, the funds will go to Armada and Android and anything excess will either be put towards the SSBM EVO pot (if the EVO staff allow it) or another player if the money will be enough to help them to go.
Check it out: http://teespring.com/armada
Decal: http://brokenshard.storenvy.com/products/1775336-armada-vinyl-decal-evo-fundraising
Player funds aren't entirely uncommon for the Smash scene and having Armada there would really put on the best show possible; having both the OLD best player (Ken) and the NEW (Armada) would be quite the spectacle (on top of other old players coming back like Shiz and Jman there). But if Armada doesn't make it, it's not a complete loss.
Just FYI Armada is also an international player so that's why the goal is pretty steep.
Personally, I wish he had made this decision sooner, I really doubt the goal will be reached in time. Currently he has received $250 in donations over the past 2 days.
Professor Beef
Banned
Not surprising, RZA and the rest of the WTC are very successful.
Shouta
Member
You're basically paying to work there. Most people think it's scummy to do that.
The Cutco reference is the first one that came to mind but it applies to any situation.
You're right, It wasn't promised by Big E, as far as we know, that we could cover the costs to stream. That's my bad for not putting more time into my response. I should get my work done before posting. But still, it doesn't make it any less OK for Big-E to do it.
I should have framed my point more clearly. The reason I think folks have problems with TOs is not because they earn money on these events but because they believe TOs aren't executing these events with transparency and that folks involved aren't getting what they deserve. The Revelations folks is one example, Jaxel is another example because even if he doesn't have the right to get pay for his work there, he doesn't deserve to be paying the event to do it, regardless of if allowed it to occur or if he ended up doing it anyway.
Just an FYI, but conversations being pointless but still talking about it is one of those GAF specialties. =P Even if nothing changes out there, at the last a few folks will have a better understanding of the situation and view of what's going on. Maybe it'll lead to a proper resolution eventually but it's better than just leaving it by the way side.
"not executing with transparency" is looking more to me like they were never transparent because nobody asked and it was understood they weren't making a ton of money.
On one hand, it might be useful to know how much running a tourney costs, just from a practical perspective. On the other, it's nobody's business yet until something justifies it. Like cases of cut and run tourneys like Devastation.
On one hand, it might be useful to know how much running a tourney costs, just from a practical perspective. On the other, it's nobody's business yet until something justifies it. Like cases of cut and run tourneys like Devastation.
Duxxy3
Member
The VH238H is the replacement for the VH236H. The only difference is the LED backlight.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236117
Shouta
Member
Right. No one's really been interested in it until recently. So there's been no reason up until this point to make it known. Now folks want to know so there's a bit of resistance to the idea because it's nothing they had to do before. Understandable.
As of right now, TOs making a lot on these events is one of those things that really needs to be squashed by going through what it costs to do everything. Showing the full sheets may not be what TOs want to do and they're justified in not doing so. But at least do what SJC has done, describe it in a general sense and not the hard numbers.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Playing through the Megaman X series using three face buttons to the extent that I did several years ago has left my right thumb's base joint permanently injured. It's what got me using stick full-time, even for more than fighting games. It doesn't really hurt anymore, but it still feels kinda off and will start hurting again if I try to play a game that needs me to do more than just hit 1-2 face buttons at a time.
Rice-Eater
Member
That's exactly what I'm using right now, and I love it. No noticeable(or any) lag when playing SF4 and I love how bright it is.
Some new a-cho Guilty Gear videos I got around to watching recently.
The casuals for the GG ranbat that Tizoc posted in his batch. Strong play from Blue's Axl from the start. Those Rensen Geki frcs are so sick. His matches with that Anji were pretty tight. Defure's Faust shows up around 25m in. Ruu's Bridget also plays during the tail end of the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvZDRPhBFPw (1h)
Yet another 11 game exhibition featuring Rozu's Ky and Ruu's Bridget. This match up has been my favourite to watch of all the exhibitions they've done at a-cho. The way Ruu negates the use of Ky's 6P is so effective. I think Rozu only got like one 6P antiair in several matches. The one he did get though was pretty sweet. The end of the set is typical Ruu fashion (ie. Timer Scam!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuOtLIoC8Yw (32m)
The casuals for the GG ranbat that Tizoc posted in his batch. Strong play from Blue's Axl from the start. Those Rensen Geki frcs are so sick. His matches with that Anji were pretty tight. Defure's Faust shows up around 25m in. Ruu's Bridget also plays during the tail end of the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvZDRPhBFPw (1h)
Yet another 11 game exhibition featuring Rozu's Ky and Ruu's Bridget. This match up has been my favourite to watch of all the exhibitions they've done at a-cho. The way Ruu negates the use of Ky's 6P is so effective. I think Rozu only got like one 6P antiair in several matches. The one he did get though was pretty sweet. The end of the set is typical Ruu fashion (ie. Timer Scam!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuOtLIoC8Yw (32m)