NFL player Aaron Hernandez connected to murder [Charged with murder + other charges]

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Dunedain_Ranger said:
I can only hope your right , but if Big Ben can get away with what he did or ray ray get away with it there's nothing saying he can't neither. I have seen better cases still lose.
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If it was Tom Brady, he might get off.

Hernandez will spend the rest of his football age life in jail.
 
Quidam said:
You realise any evidence other than direct DNA evidence and a video of the murderer committing the crime is circumstantial? Circumstantial evidence is more than enough to prove guilty beyond reasonable doubt when it's as overwhelmingly conclusive as this evidence is.

EDIT: See ostrichKing's post below. People have this weird misconception that 'circumstantial evidence' is somehow not enough.
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Circumstantial evidence is enough but it is not as strong as direct evidence. This happens to be very compelling circumstantial evidence but it's not bulletproof. They can't put the murder weapon in Hernandez's hand, which is a potential weakness.
 
Quidam said:
EDIT: See ostrichKing's post below. People have this weird misconception that 'circumstantial evidence' is somehow not enough.
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People also seem to have the misconception that a defense attorney should admit that "yeah, I think the prosecution has a great case, my client is screwed"..
 
Cat Party said:
Circumstantial evidence is enough but it is not as strong as direct evidence. This happens to be very compelling circumstantial evidence but it's not bulletproof. They can't put the murder weapon in Hernandez's hand, which is a potential weakness.
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Exactly.

Either Hernandez or his people are going to cut a deal. If Hernandez was actually the one to shoot Lloyd, he needs to make a deal ASAP because testimony to that effect from someone there and it's game/life over. If he didn't do the killing, make a deal and take a lesser charge and roll on the one who killed Lloyd. Still get jail time but not life.
 
If he killed those people in 2012, and played football afterwards, I dunno, just makes me sick. A murderer on the field while kids wear his jersey and cheer him on.
 
OSHAN said:
If he killed those people in 2012, and played football afterwards, I dunno, just makes me sick. A murderer on the field while kids wear his jersey and cheer him on.
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Not like it hasn't happened before..
ray-lewis.jpg
 
Dunedain_Ranger said:
I can only hope your right , but if Big Ben can get away with what he did or ray ray get away with it there's nothing saying he can't neither. I have seen better cases still lose.
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This is nothing like those cases... at all.

This was pre-meditated murder.

Ray was a fight out of control and Big Ben was he-said/she-said.
 
OSHAN said:
If he killed those people in 2012, and played football afterwards, I dunno, just makes me sick. A murderer on the field while kids wear his jersey and cheer him on.
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I feel the same way. It's amazing (in a bad way) that people can be so two-faced. Hernandez would not be special in that regard if the link is proven.
 
Cat Party said:
Circumstantial evidence is enough but it is not as strong as direct evidence. This happens to be very compelling circumstantial evidence but it's not bulletproof. They can't put the murder weapon in Hernandez's hand, which is a potential weakness.
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Of course direct can be much stronger...but under law a jury is instructed and allowed to give "equal weight" to direct and circumstantial evidence...especially when all the circumstantial evidence can prove something beyond a "reasonable" doubt...

EDIT: People have been convicted with much less circumstantial evidence than it seems they have here...

Edit #2: If they have surveillance video, as has been reported, then they do have footage of him with the murder weapon in hand...just not when he is pulling the trigger...
 
ostrichKing said:
Of course direct can be much stronger...but under law a jury is instructed and allowed to give "equal weight" to direct and circumstantial evidence...especially when all the circumstantial evidence can prove something beyond a "reasonable" doubt...

EDIT: People have been convicted with much less circumstantial evidence than it seems they have here...

Edit #2: If they have surveillance video, as has been reported, then they do have footage of him with the murder weapon in hand...just not when he is pulling the trigger...
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Alleged murder weapon, which is important here, wouldn't be able to prove that without ballistic tests.
 
ostrichKing said:
Of course direct can be much stronger...but under law a jury is instructed and allowed to give "equal weight" to direct and circumstantial evidence...especially when all the circumstantial evidence can prove something beyond a "reasonable" doubt...

EDIT: People have been convicted with much less circumstantial evidence than it seems they have here...

Edit #2: If they have surveillance video, as has been reported, then they do have footage of him with the murder weapon in hand...just not when he is pulling the trigger...
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I'm not arguing with you. Just saying you can't oversell it as a slam dunk. Hernandez can, for example, say he didn't want to kill Lloyd but one of his buddies did it anyway. Worse stories have been believed.
 
Shalashaska said:
Alleged murder weapon, which is important here, wouldn't be able to prove that without ballistic tests.
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It shouldn't actually matter all that much...the fact he is seen with a gun minutes after the guy is shot, combined with ALL of the other circumstantial evidence they've already revealed is pretty damning circumstantial evidence.

Remember, they do not have to prove beyond ALL doubt, just reasonable doubt.

Of course you can always end up having an OJ jury who had mountains of evidence of all kinds, and still didn't come up with a conviction...
 
Cat Party said:
I'm not arguing with you. Just saying you can't oversell it as a slam dunk. Hernandez can, for example, say he didn't want to kill Lloyd but one of his buddies did it anyway. Worse stories have been believed.
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Oh, I know...I just think that the circumstantial evidence in this case (and what they are reporting is there is a lot more that has not been revealed) is way way more than would be required to convict beyond a reasonable doubt...I'm not saying 100% he's guilty, just saying the evidence seems pretty damning...and get's worse with each report...
 
ostrichKing said:
It shouldn't actually matter all that much...the fact he is seen with a gun minutes after the guy is shot, combined with ALL of the other circumstantial evidence they've already revealed is pretty damning circumstantial evidence.

Remember, they do not have to prove beyond ALL doubt, just reasonable doubt.

Of course you can always end up having an OJ jury who had mountains of evidence of all kinds, and still didn't come up with a conviction...
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Oh for sure, doesn't look good at all for him.
 
Shalashaska said:
People also seem to have the misconception that a defense attorney should admit that "yeah, I think the prosecution has a great case, my client is screwed"..
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I chuckled every time someone brought that up. What the hell do you expect the guy defending him to say?
 
Dunedain_Ranger said:
Fact still remains stronger cases have still lost nothing is 100% percent and anything can happen.
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Yeah, I guess? Sort of? Not really though.. there's 2 other people who were there at the time that will be arrested shortly I'm sure.

All 3 will be looking at 1st Degree Murder charges and life in prison.. someone will crack.. and it's over.
 
NervousXtian said:
Yeah, I guess? Sort of? Not really though.. there's 2 other people who were there at the time that will be arrested shortly I'm sure.

All 3 will be looking at 1st Degree Murder charges and life in prison.. someone will crack.. and it's over.
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One other person has been arrested (this morning), I think the third is cooperating with law enforcement (My opinion). The amount of detail the DA put out there about conversations and such make me think they have someone cooperating
 
The defense's lawyer is from an alternate dimension where Pee-Wee Herman didn't get his bike back and went to law school.
 
This guy is going away for the rest of his life. Judge didn't even want to hear about any type of bail just based on the idea that he may have killed someone in cold blood simply because he was "disrespected." Plus, possibly tied to another double murder?

Dude also has an extremely punchable face.
 
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