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[methane47]

Witness is great lol

 

[BSsBrolly]

My big issue with all of this, is what the police did. This case would be very different if they did their jobs right the first time.

Is there any proof of the injuries that Zimmerman is saying he received? I imagine if his head was slammed on the ground multiple times there would be a lot of damage.

Me too, those cuts on the back of his head looked like nothing to me. Wouldn't he have a concussion if his head was slammed repeatedly on cement?

 

[Zoe]

My big issue with all of this, is what the police did. This case would be very different if they did their jobs right the first time.

Is there any proof of the injuries that Zimmerman is saying he received? I imagine if his head was slammed on the ground multiple times there would be a lot of damage.

Police pictures of his broken nose and scuffed up scalp.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Me too, those cuts on the back of his head looked like nothing to me. Wouldn't he have a concussion if his head was slammed repeatedly on cement?

Concussions are pretty easy to come by, tbh.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Let's summarize a few things that are true, no matter what the verdict is:


George Zimmerman shot an innocent teen to death AFTER provoking an altercation with him, AFTER being advised to back off by police.

Then, to save his skin, he effected a massive smear campaign, wrecking this dead child's reputation and using race and prejudice as energy for his defense.


He stalked and killed an innocent person and then slandered their reputation to stay out of jail.

And these aren't even disputable. So we'll go back and forth on Florida law, and arguments about self-defense AFTER Zimmerman instigated a fight, but the above happened, even by Zimmerman's own account.

There are some disputed points in this post. However, everyone knows what they are, so there is no point in discussing it for the 1000th time.

 

[RoninChaos]

Did he have a concussion? I mean, if this raging criminal weed smoking thug slammed his head against the ground repeatedly I think there might be more than a scuff.

And didn't I read that this altercation happened in the grass? How did zimmerman's head get slammed into concrete if they were fight in the grass?

What kind of gun did Zimmerman have?

 

[Stinkles]

There are some disputed points in this post.

Go ahead. You can dispute my encapsulation of them, or semantics, and definitely tone, but the underlying facts are facts.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Concussion happened in this, first spot of the video, when the white guy gets hit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuYCsax1mFc

Yep, wrasslin, but it was a legit concussion and was not to make him so legit shook.

 

[BSsBrolly]

Concussions are pretty easy to come by, tbh.

Wouldn't he have one then?

 

[methane47]

Did he have a concussion? I mean, if this raging criminal weed smoking thug slammed his head against the ground repeatedly I think there might be more than a scuff.

And didn't I read that this altercation happened in the grass? How did zimmerman's head get slammed into concrete if they were fight in the grass?

What kind of gun did Zimmerman have?

Fight went onto the concrete walk-way

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Wouldn't he have one then?

Dunno. Did they check for one? Is he supposed to have one? I'm not following this terribly closely.

 

[Big Baybee]

Fight went onto the concrete walk-way

Haven't all the witnesses stated that the fight they saw was on grass? Martin's body was found well onto the grass. And no blood was found on the walkway. Wasn't it very light rain? I doubt it was washed away.

 

[PotatoeMasher]

My big issue with all of this, is what the police did. This case would be very different if they did their jobs right the first time.

Is there any proof of the injuries that Zimmerman is saying he received? I imagine if his head was slammed on the ground multiple times there would be a lot of damage.

These look to have been taken in the police cruiser:

I think I remember people thinking his injuries were fake or something though. That's where this case started getting a little 9/11 truth to me and I had to bow out of following it however many months ago.

 

[Stinkles]

Wouldn't he have one then?

they are unpredictable.

 

[methane47]

Haven't all the witnesses stated that the fight they saw was on grass? Martin's body was found well onto the grass. And no blood was found on the walkway. Wasn't it very light rain? I doubt it was washed away.

Current witness said the fight started on the grass then moved to the concrete walk-way.
But indeed if you were getting your head smashed in on concrete i would indeed expect blood to be there.

 

[AFollowerNotALeader]

What kind of gun did Zimmerman have?

It's my understanding that it was a 9mm Kel-Tec PF-9.

Edit - This one: http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/pf-9/

 

[vas_a_morir]

Current witness said the fight started on the grass then moved to the concrete walk-way.
But indeed if you were getting your head smashed in on concrete i would indeed expect blood to be there.

Wonder how his head got cut up? I suppose if there were rocks in the grass, it could happen.

Current witness claims screaming came from the guy on the bottom.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Me too, those cuts on the back of his head looked like nothing to me. Wouldn't he have a concussion if his head was slammed repeatedly on cement?

Not necessarily but at the very least he should have gone to the hospital if the trauma was as severe as fearing for your life.

 

[DigitalOp]

Poor Zimmerman, That concrete was so brutal. He did what he had to do....

 

[Particle Physicist]

Fight went onto the concrete walk-way

There is no proof of that. He could have just as easily scraped his head on a rock in the grass.

Edit:

Didn't see the current witness statement

 

[Dude Abides]

Did he have a concussion? I mean, if this raging criminal weed smoking thug slammed his head against the ground repeatedly I think there might be more than a scuff.

No concussion, if I remember the medical examiner's report correctly.

Current witness said the fight started on the grass then moved to the concrete walk-way.
But indeed if you were getting your head smashed in on concrete i would indeed expect blood to be there.

You might also expect a concussion if it was as bad as Zimmerman claims.

 

[Zep]

Poor Zimmerman, That concrete was so brutal. He did what he has to do....

Looks like he could have been scratched on the back of the head with nails. Makes sense only if trayvon was on the bottom.

Just speculation, nothing beyond that.

 

[PotatoeMasher]

If the current witness is credible it seems to corroborate Zimmerman's story. Is this a prosecution witness?

 

[AFollowerNotALeader]

If the current witness is credible it seems to corroborate Zimmerman's story. Is this a prosecution witness?

Yes. He's a prosecution witness.

I can't imagine why they called him.

 

[Dude Abides]

I missed this witness's direct - what did he say as to when he saw them with respect to when the gunshot happened?

 

[vas_a_morir]

If the current witness is credible it seems to corroborate Zimmerman's story. Is this a prosecution witness?

That's what I'm asking.... the Defense mentioned this guy by name in the opening statement. And seeing how the Defense is leading him, it's gotta be a prosecution witness.

So, he claims:

1. Guy on top beating guy on the bottom in an MMA style.
2. Guy on bottom wearing red.
3. Screaming was coming from the guy on the bottom.
4. Guy on top was 'unrelenting.'
5. Close enough that he actually spoke to them.

 

[Ohnonono]

Yes. He's a prosecution witness.

I can't imagine why they called him.

Wonder if they are just calling all of the eye-witnesses. Man he seems to dislike the defense lawyer.

 

[Stinkles]

He did not like the witness's answer about the color of the clothing for some reason. Looks like he's trying to get a more or less definitive answer.

George Zimmerman is probably drawing Dickbutt. What notes could he possibly be making?

 

[vas_a_morir]

Wonder if they are just calling all of the eye-witnesses. Man he seems to dislike the defense lawyer.

The defense is questioning him in a way that will probe if he's lying. This guy seems confident in what he saw, and he is a bit defensive about the possibility his statement could be construed as untrue.

Seeing how he is saying EXACTLY what the defense dreams an eye witness would say, I think they are just trying to hammer home that this guy is telling the truth.

Either way, witnesses are always a bit combative during cross.

 

[Particle Physicist]

If the current witness is credible it seems to corroborate Zimmerman's story. Is this a prosecution witness?

I didnt see his entire statement but what I saw he stated that he did not witness the gun shot and he was not sure who called out for help. Not sure how that corroborates the story. What else did he say?

 

[ViperVisor]

I can see how it was easy to get cut up on concrete with cropped hair. But the appearance of blood isn't a tell-tale.

The real worry would be the supposed slamming. I would expect swelling if that was the case.

My guess is the ' repeatedly slamming his head into the concrete' is an exaggeration he has come up with consciously or subconsciously to justify shooting him.

 

[methane47]

the prosecution is doing such a terrible job. I have no idea why they are getting entrenched in this Fight nonsense.

They should only call testimony that adds to the fact that
a) TM didn't commit any crime
b) He was being followed for a mile in the dark and rain by an unknown man

They should show, that THIS more than anything lead to the altercation, not who threw the first punch.

Must be a setup, prosecution has to be throwing this case.

 

[akira28]

Looks like he could have been scratched on the back of the head with nails. Makes sense only if trayvon was on the bottom.

Just speculation, nothing beyond that.

Looks like he has 4 scratches on the back of his head.

I don't see bruising or bashing or the sort of random abrasions that would come from bashing a head against concrete. They didn't even do a major examination to see if there was an imprint.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

That's what I'm asking.... the Defense mentioned this guy by name in the opening statement. And seeing how the Defense is leading him, it's gotta be a prosecution witness.

So, he claims:

1. Guy on top beating guy on the bottom in an MMA style.
2. Guy on bottom wearing red.
3. Screaming was coming from the guy on the bottom.
4. Guy on top was 'unrelenting.'
5. Close enough that he actually spoke to them.

Did they actually say "MMA style" because that's pretty bad to hear. MMA fights are STOPPED with a ref due to what they can do to people, and wouldn't go well for the prosecution.

 

[Particle Physicist]

That's what I'm asking.... the Defense mentioned this guy by name in the opening statement. And seeing how the Defense is leading him, it's gotta be a prosecution witness.

So, he claims:

1. Guy on top beating guy on the bottom in an MMA style.
2. Guy on bottom wearing red.
3. Screaming was coming from the guy on the bottom.
4. Guy on top was 'unrelenting.'
5. Close enough that he actually spoke to them.

Did they ask him if he saw where the gun was at that time?

 

[AFollowerNotALeader]

I didnt see his entire statement but what I saw he stated that he did not witness the gun shot and he was not sure who called out for help. Not sure how that corroborates the story. What else did he say?

I sure can't see why the defense would be happy to have a witness state that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, straddling him and hitting him.

Oh. Wait.

Did they actually say "MMA style" because that's pretty bad to hear. MMA fights are STOPPED with a ref due to what they can do to people, and wouldn't go well for the prosecution.

They said that a lot for obvious reasons.

 

[Dude Abides]

This guy is saying it did move to the sidewalk, with Martin still on top.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

the prosecution is doing such a terrible job. I have no idea why they are getting entrenched in this Fight nonsense.

They should only call testimony that adds to the fact that
a) TM didn't commit any crime
b) He was being followed for a mile in the dark and rain by an unknown man

They should show, that THIS more than anything lead to the altercation, not who threw the first punch.

Must be a setup, prosecution has to be throwing this case.

I know thats what we want to know, for investigative and popular purposes, but as far as the case entails, Zimmerman has to prove that his life was in danger. Thats what the prosecution is pushing towards. If it was not in danger, theres no legal grounds to use a firearm.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Did they ask him if he saw where the gun was at that time?

He claims he did not see a gun when the fight was going on and the dude was screaming.

The witness confirms a 'ground and pound' tactic. As I hate MMA and think boxing is superior, I don't know what that means. But apparently it is an MMA move.

I guess "Get them to the GROUND, and POUND them." right?

 

[Particle Physicist]

I sure can't see why the defense would be happy to have a witness state that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, straddling him and hitting him.

Oh. Wait.

Thanks for the condescending tone. If you read my post I said I didn't see the entire statement and I asked what else he said. Oh wait.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

He claims he did not see a gun when the fight was going on and the dude was screaming.

The witness confirms a 'ground and pound' tactic. As I hate MMA and think boxing is superior, I don't know what that means. But apparently it is an MMA move.

basically hold someone down from a dominant position and pound the shit out of em. It's not a particular move, just a style. You take someone down to the ground and hit them with strikes that they can't defend well against.

 

[Mr. Patch]

Did they actually say "MMA style" because that's pretty bad to hear. MMA fights are STOPPED with a ref due to what they can do to people, and wouldn't go well for the prosecution.

Here's the thing about that MMA stuff...

Zimmerman's worked out at an MMA gym. Partially for the purpose of learning self defense.

 

[Dude Abides]

Thanks for the condescending tone. If you read my post I said I didn't see the entire statement and I asked what else he said. Oh wait.

Can't you watch?

Here is the stream:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...l-live-video-chat-20130612,0,7210676.htmlpage

 

[AFollowerNotALeader]

Thanks for the condescending tone. If you read my post I said I didn't see the entire statement and I asked what else he said. Oh wait.

Fair point, sorry.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Eye-witness claims fight started in the grass, moved to the sidewalk.

Here's the thing about that MMA stuff...

Zimmerman's worked out at an MMA gym.

Is it done from below the other guy? Witness claims the guy in the red jacket was on the bottom of this struggle.

 

[rooflapimp]

Looks like he has 4 scratches on the back of his head.

I don't see bruising or bashing or the sort of random abrasions that would come from bashing a head against concrete. They didn't even do a major examination to see if there was an imprint.

is his obviously broken nose also due to some light scratching? zeems like martino was bashing his face in to me

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Here's the thing about that MMA stuff...

Zimmerman's worked out at an MMA gym.

Just worked out? Or trained for MMA? Also even if he did train that doesn't mean he was worth a damn from the guard position, which it sounds like he wasn't even in.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Can't you watch?

Here is the stream:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...l-live-video-chat-20130612,0,7210676.htmlpage

Not right now. No.

 

[Downhome]

the prosecution is doing such a terrible job. I have no idea why they are getting entrenched in this Fight nonsense.

They should only call testimony that adds to the fact that
a) TM didn't commit any crime
b) He was being followed for a mile in the dark and rain by an unknown man

They should show, that THIS more than anything lead to the altercation, not who threw the first punch.

Must be a setup, prosecution has to be throwing this case.

I don't get your point.

a) TM didn't commit any crime

Before the altercation, that's all fine and good. That isn't what the case is about though.

b) He was being followed for a mile in the dark and rain by an unknown man

That also doesn't matter. Nothing illegal there by Zimmerman. Of the two Zimmerman had more of a right to be walking around in the community than TM, no matter if he was following someone or not.

The entire case hinges on who, physically, started the altercation. If it was TM, if he made first contact, then Zimmerman walks.

 

[Dude Abides]

I don't get your point.



Before the altercation, that's all fine and good. That isn't what the case is about though.



That also doesn't matter. Nothing illegal there by Zimmerman. Of the two Zimmerman had more of a right to be walking around in the community than TM, no matter if he was following someone or not.

The entire case hinges on who, physically, started the altercation. If it was TM, if he made first contact, then Zimmerman walks.

I agree that who started the altercation is crucial, but they both had equal right to be walking around the community. None of this would have happened if Zimmerman hadn't decided to play Batman.