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New Killzone: Shadow Fall gameplay

Preface: I'm interested in this game. There's a lot I'm excited about, both in terms of tech and design, that we've already seen even from just the little bits shown. There's a lot of potential with the premise in terms of the story and writing. I understand the kind of time crunch developers are under for launch window titles, and I know expectations are hyper-sensitive at the advent of a new hardware generation. So bare in mind, this is just reaction to the state of affairs in the video here, and we're deep in nitpicking territory, but I'm noticing a lot of little stuff. A lot of this isn't about technology, just nuance to priorities and execution for this particular build of this particular game.

At 2:05, we see leaves beautifully cascading down...above the trees. The behavior/appearance of that grapple hook looks to be the same solution I've seen in early Quake 1/2 mods, which is effective for gameplay, but looks a little odd in a modern context. Steady pop-in on ground detail/geometry and shadows in the near distance is pretty noticeable outdoors. At 2:44 we see strange clouds of dust kicked up when the enemy AI is "activated." At 4:52 we see three characters on x-ray react to to a grenade by shouting "Hit the deck!" but none of them do anything more than shuffle slightly, certainly not diving away from the danger. All of the AI "announcements" seem as canned as a game like the original Half-life, where the speech gives the impression something is happening when it often isn't, and it's a little too clear for the player compared to how it should sound coming through the environment. Bullet momentum doesn't seem to transfer info animations as much as previous games (the dead soldier falling uphill, toward the player's fire at 6:10). The AI look simply dumbfounded starting at 6:37, and the two soldiers not being fired at are confused and still searching for the player despite being less than fifteen feet away from gunfire. All the friendlies at the crash site appear to have the same face, which is weird but understandable. The mangled rag-doll made me think one of the dead allies was a survivor until I looked closer. More odd behavior as the AI happily ignores the player and turns to face a wall to expose his back at 8:18.
 
Man listen..before I say the following I have to point out we are heading in a rather ridiculous direction where we are seriously considering all sorts of crazy things in physics etc that really shouldn't be so deeply talked about of a video game.

Have you seen gliders? They are not always really accurate. Depending on the wind, obstructions in the environment etc etc the control-ability will be heavily affected. With a simple zipline creation mechanic those are no longer problems. The user can exactly plan, pin point and land in the location they want. This method is also much faster which is important in taking enemies by surprise.

And yes a glider would make more noise and grab attention than a simple zipline. To carry a man a glider will have to be at least of a certain size either way.

I'm not sure if you can't shoot while ziplining in this game but it really doesn't affect the overall gameplay. The animation takes just a few mere second to complete.


yes ridiculous discussion, but since we are on the topic, I think ziplines make more noise than a glider. But I have used neither in real life.

I think it being a faster mechanic is up for debate.

I do agree it is a simpler design mechanic, in streamlining the user experience of traversal, than a controllable glider would be though.
 
I assume Jetpacks are probably gone. They don't seem like something a shadow marshall would use. But the open environments would be ideal for their use. Also, I hope we have a variety of other tools such as night vision, thermal vision, etc.
 
For some reason I am not feeling this level...its too cartoony (halo-ish) compared to KZ2 and 3. The city level was much more impressive. Also the animations seem to be toned down from KZ2 levels...don't feel the impact that used to be KZ2 or even KZ3. Hope this is just place holder and animations get close to KZ2.

Can't wait to see what the MP looks like. Hopefully they go back to KZ2 MP with new additions.
 
After seeing it so many times, I'm actually disappointed with the graphics in this section of the game. This jungle area doesn't look that good. How about some more grass instead of random patches here and there. And the textures need improved.

The fly-over of the city in the first gameplay vid back in Feb was impressive.

I think it looks good, but this area could look better, I agree.

Some parts are really pretty, others not so much.
 
I'm all for Guerilla trying out new ideas but I'm not too impressed gameplay wise.

Gunplay in KZ2 and KZ3 was tight.

A.I. was also a very strong point in the series.

Art style looks a bit bland. Graphically it looks fine - great lighting, sharp textures.

Also, it seems like the OWL is doing 99% of the work for you. Heh.

Honestly, I prefer 'cinematic linear shooters' over open world games. They just tend to feel boring.
 
The only game to have done the jungle location very well is Crysis 1. Not jsut graphically ( the full foliage is so sexy) but also the layout and how open it is.


Even Far cry 3 isn't that good and has its issues.


I agree the one is KZ:sF isn't that good ( well, from what we have seen, it may play out a lot better)
 
AI in the game looks beyond stupid. I like that the gameplay seems to not be linear and even slightly stealth based, but that AI needs massive improvement.
 
Sad on Sony's part if their own in-house team can't outdo a third party multiplatform game.

What is sad is this comment and the comment you quoted. BF4 was not shown running on any console but on high end AMD cards and second of all neither game is complete and does not represent their final form. This is why devs hate showing early code because of rubbish comments like this.
 
Sad on Sony's part if their own in-house team can't outdo a third party multiplatform game.

not necessarily. I would bet DICE is considerable bigger than GG. BF4 probably also has a bigger budget and resources. And DICE has more experience and has been around longer.

I would be more concerned if their 2nd or 3rd game on PS4 doesnt match up.
 
What is sad is this comment and the comment you quoted. BF4 was not shown running on any console but on high end Nvidia cards and second of all neither game is complete and does not represent their final form. This is why devs hate showing early code because of rubbish comments like this.

Sad on Sony's part if their own in-house team can't outdo a third party multiplatform game.

Easy there.
 
I'll gladly dismiss a complaint about how the zipline doesn't show a spike at the end of it.

Come on.

The zipline dissapears right after you use it. If you shoot it across the map and zipline you are never going to see the end for more than a few frames.
Preorder an extra copy of the game for me then.
 
Yeah, no doubt the AI in KZ2 is some of the better AI in shooters.



I'm not talking about instances of poor AI, every game does have that. I'm talking about the overall quality of the AI and how it stacks up to the competition. IMO to say that the AI in KZ2 is "MUCH" better than these other games is laughable and makes me question whether or not you really played these other games.

But hey, to each their own.



Admittedly I haven't played FEAR in a few years so my memory could be hazy, but what I do remember about HL2 was much more adaptive than what you're describing. I disagree with your opinion over how well the AI flanked you in KZ2 because much of the game is very linear with very little room for flanking. IMO it's good AI in CoD level-type designs, but the levels in HL (especially EP2) and Halo are more open than those found in KZ2. Also, I wonder what difficulty you played Halo on. The higher the difficulty, the better the AI is.

However I really don't want this to become a debate about AI in shooters (especially when exclusives are involved) so I think we should agree to disagree. I'm in a KZ thread, and while I love the franchise, I don't expect my criticism over the franchise to be well received here.

The problem with calling KZ a "corridor shooter" is that there really aren't all that many narrow confining corridors. I'd personally call it more of a room shooter, with the areas being massive that you pass between, often times with elements of verticality as well. The A.I. in that game had many opportunities to flank/ambush etc etc.

I did play Halflife 2, on the orange box, on PS3... so that's probably part of my problem, but I wasn't blown away by the A.I. at all. I'll chalk it up to the horrible port and be done with that lol. I'm not saying all the other A.I out there is bad by any means, I just had serious moments of frustration with cunning A.I. in KZ2 that forced me to recognize it's implementation, which rarely happens for me.
 
Well it's missing because the scope of the level is different. It's more open ended and allows for various ways to achieve the objective and attack enemies. It seems there will be a variety of levels that allow for different gameplay.

As for the gun, I believe I read somewhere you can customize some of the weapons now, so I believe that's the case.

I understand the scope is different, but the cover based gameplay is the core of Killzone. It needs to be available in every environment. That way it opens up more choice for the player, either to attack it like a standard shooter and use the OWL's shield, or use cover to their advantage classic killzone style. Thats what offers gameplay variety, and I just hope the OWL hasn't gone and taken precedence over the importance and satisfaction of using cover. Even the enemy AI would benefit from cover.

Also, do you have a link to where you read about customizable weapons? thats news to me.
 
I understand the scope is different, but the cover based gameplay is the core of Killzone. It needs to be available in every environment. That way it opens up more choice for the player, either to attack it like a standard shooter and use the OWL's shield, or use cover to their advantage classic killzone style. Thats what offers gameplay variety, and I just hope the OWL hasn't gone and taken precedence over the importance and satisfaction of using cover. Even the enemy AI would benefit from cover.

Also, do you have a link to where you read about customizable weapons? thats news to me.
I had forgotten all about the ability to take cover in KZ.

I wonder if they have removed it for this game. I hope not.
 
not necessarily. I would bet DICE is considerable bigger than GG. BF4 probably also has a bigger budget and resources. And DICE has more experience and has been around longer.

I would be more concerned if their 2nd or 3rd game on PS4 doesnt match up.

I absolutely agree with this comment. I think the exclusive developers will have the hardest time jumping to the more common architecture. All the resources need to be built from the ground up, and they've never had to target the PC as a gaming platform. They're massively under experienced in this regard.
 
Has it even been shown on consoles yet? Last I heard it was running on a beefy PC.

Frostbite 3 is quite a good engine and PS4 is quite a powerful system. I don't think it is unreasonable for them to make it quite close to the footage they showed. They said themselves at E3 that graphics is a big focus.
 
I absolutely agree with this comment. I think the exclusive developers will have the hardest time jumping to the more common architecture. All the resources need to be built from the ground up, and they've never had to target the PC as a gaming platform. They're massively under experienced in this regard.
Yes. Devs such as DICE have years of PC (x86) programming experience, unlike Sony's devs..

I do think first party games will eventually blow us away, but not now - these are launch titles after all.
 
Also, do you have a link to where you read about customizable weapons? thats news to me.

I don't have a link, I just vaguely remember reading something like Guerilla hinted at it somewhere or mentioned it somewhere at E3. We'll see though. Gun still looks good to me.
 
Now that is an explanation I can jive with.
What other explanation could it be?

Look at how far ahead first-party devs were on the PS3.

Now the likes of Watch Dogs, NFS Rivals, and BF4 look as good as anything offered by Sony's first party offerings.

I am assuming this is because of the more familiar architecture.
 
not necessarily. I would bet DICE is considerable bigger than GG. BF4 probably also has a bigger budget and resources. And DICE has more experience and has been around longer.

I would be more concerned if their 2nd or 3rd game on PS4 doesnt match up.

I absolutely agree with this comment. I think the exclusive developers will have the hardest time jumping to the more common architecture. All the resources need to be built from the ground up, and they've never had to target the PC as a gaming platform. They're massively under experienced in this regard.

Yes. Devs such as DICE have years of PC (x86) programming experience, unlike Sony's devs..

I do think first party games will eventually blow us away, but not now - these are launch titles after all.


I would expect Sony's own first party studio (especially Guerilla who is know for their graphically impressive PS3 games) to be more adept at programming for their own hardware than a third party developer like dice. If BF4 looks more impressive on PS4 than Killzone Shadowfall I will be surprised.
 
I would expect Sony's own first party studio to be more adept at programming for their own hardware than a third party developer like dice. If BF4 looks more impressive on PS4 than Killzone Shadowfall I will be surprised.
The PS4 is basically an AMD PC. It's hardly Sony's 'own' hardware.
 
I would expect Sony's own first party studio to be more adept at programming for their own hardware than a third party developer like dice. If BF4 looks more impressive on PS4 than Killzone Shadowfall I will be surprised.

Absolutely, and I'm sure they eventually will be if not already, they do after all have access to the world wide studios, and as a whole the Sony programmers are brilliant. But they are in PC territory now, and Dice, Valve, etc etc etc have been here for quite some time.
 
What is sad is this comment and the comment you quoted. BF4 was not shown running on any console but on high end Nvidia cards and second of all neither game is complete and does not represent their final form. This is why devs hate showing early code because of rubbish comments like this.

So true and everyone wonders why we get CG trailers.
 
Went from not interested at the reveal, to very interested thru e3, to this video and I'm uninterested again. This is just like having the Ed-E in Fallout 3/NV except it's smart enough to act with me swipe telling it what to do
 
I would expect Sony's own first party studio (especially Guerilla who is know for their graphically impressive PS3 games) to be more adept at programming for their own hardware than a third party developer like dice. If BF4 looks more impressive on PS4 than Killzone Shadowfall I will be surprised.
You're missing the point
 
Frostbite 3 is quite a good engine and PS4 is quite a powerful system. I don't think it is unreasonable for them to make it quite close to the footage they showed. They said themselves at E3 that graphics is a big focus.

sure,but to say it looks better is premature when it's running on graphics cards that cost more than a PS4.
 
I had forgotten all about the ability to take cover in KZ.

I wonder if they have removed it for this game. I hope not.

lol how did you forget? Its one of the biggest draws of KZ which sets it apart from every other fps. its not removed though, it was seen in the Feb 20 reveal footage.

I don't have a link, I just vaguely remember reading something like Guerilla hinted at it somewhere or mentioned it somewhere at E3. We'll see though. Gun still looks good to me.

gun looks great, I just want the model in Feb 20 reveal more :P
 
The problem with this E3 demo and the videos of it is that there are no any interesting shoot outs,nothing similar for example to the tension of the KZ2 first warehouse shoot out.I was hoping shooting feeling would improve to something similar to what the division showed,but instead it seems worse than last gen,and the animations being so rough doesnt help either.
 
hmmh.. i don't like how much this seems like a current-gen game. clipping through all foliage like there's no physics, same awkward looking melee as in KZ3, same AI, a "forest" with trees only every few meters (WHEN are we going to get consoles that can handle a dense, realistic looking forest?) etc etc... i bet you can't even see your feet if you look down.

i guess some of the fancy effects and sharper textures look pretty good though.

for me it depends on the multiplayer pretty much, if it's fun and there's a decent community, i'll bite. unless i want BF4 instead which is a real possibility.

edit: hmm this post came off a bit harsher than i intended :P the game doesn't look bad IMO, just.. not quite what i wanted from a next-gen KZ.
 
According to the system architect, it was designed for ease of use across all developers, they wanted to create the easiest architecture that's ever existed.

Yes, I'm aware of that. However, getting up and running on a system and getting the most performance out of it as possible are two different things. The ease of use makes the former easier, but the latter still takes deeper understanding of the hardware. Cerny, the system architect, even said the PS4 was designed with this in mind. My argument was that I expect Guerilla to have a leg up over Dice when it comes to an understanding of the hardware and using the PS4's tools to take advantage of it.

I don't see why this is unfair to assume.
 
Yes, I'm aware of that. However, getting up and running on a system and getting the most performance out of it as possible are two different things. The ease of use makes the former easier, but the later still takes deeper understanding of the hardware. Cerny, the system architect, even said the PS4 was designed with this in mind. My argument was that I expect Guerilla to have a leg up over Dice when it comes to an understanding of the hardware and using the PS4's tools to take advantage of it.

I don't see why this is unfair to assume.

Seems logical enough, I would just imagine they don't have those tools just yet. Whereas developers that already program for X86 already have stable, optimized assets. Exclusive developers will almost always have the better looking games, especially in the long run as they don't have to hit a moving target. But it wouldn't shock me if they weren't top dogs right of the gate.
 
After watching that video, what I learned was:

Use slo-mo to win
Use OWL machine gun to win
Use OWL wall hack to win
Use dumb enemy AI to win
Use OWL stun attack to win
Use instakill melee to win
 
hmmh.. i don't like how much this seems like a current-gen game. clipping through all foliage like there's no physics, same awkward looking melee as in KZ3, same AI, a "forest" with trees only every few meters (WHEN are we going to get consoles that can handle a dense, realistic looking forest?) etc etc... i bet you can't even see your feet if you look down.

i guess some of the fancy effects and sharper textures look pretty good though.

for me it depends on the multiplayer pretty much, if it's fun and there's a decent community, i'll bite. unless i want BF4 instead which is a real possibility.

edit: hmm this post came off a bit harsher than i intended :P the game doesn't look bad IMO, just.. not quite what i wanted from a next-gen KZ.
Far Cry 3 in my PS3 had very dense foliage.The KZ3 jungle level however was a corridor and rushed.I hope they get it better this time and this demo has a lot of place holders: foliage,AI,animations...and please underpower the OWL.
 
After watching that video, what I learned was:

Use slo-mo to win
Use OWL machine gun to win
Use OWL wall hack to win
Use dumb enemy AI to win
Use OWL stun attack to win
Use instakill melee to win

*gameplay video of random FPS*

After watching the video, what I learned was:

Kill enemies to win

Come on, you can't break down a game like that dude.
 
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