Indeed. Pop in is one of the things I thought would be addressed this gen but so far only faced disappointment. Personally, I have wondered on whether developers could only implement an amount of geometry that would neither result in noticeable pop in for a given draw distance nor overwhelm the GPU and ally that with tessellation. Perhaps as the generation matures developers will come up with more unique solutions because higher fidelity only acts as an amplifier of existing issues.
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New Killzone: Shadow Fall gameplay
- Thread starter Canis lupus
- Start date
Indeed. Pop in is one of the things I thought would be addressed this gen but so far only faced disappointment. Personally, I have wondered on whether developers could only implement an amount of geometry that would neither result in noticeable pop in for a given draw distance nor overwhelm the GPU and ally that with tessellation. Perhaps as the generation matures developers will come up with more unique solutions because higher fidelity only acts as an amplifier of existing issues.
I'm hoping that the pop in will be addressed in the final build. So far all of the games we've seen with pop in are nonlinear games that are still running on the pre-8GB GDDR5 devkits.
Left over glitch from reusing the KZ3 animation.
While I hope that it turns out to be true, at this point, I would rather take a comparatively more barren scene that allows for less pop in instead of having the screen fill with geometry that frequently and noticeably undergoes LoD and object pop in.
Plus, I wonder whether this issue is related to RAM at all. It may be more of a GPU dependent issue. I wish Durante were here.
Skinny Pete
Banned
I want to like this game as I am getting a PS4 at launch but I am not that impressed. Hopefully the next build looks better?
Same exact dev kits. I really think that the Feb demo was much more polished. All of Sony's E3 demos, outside of inFamous, were kind of lackluster compared to the reveals. I'm hoping that they're just focusing on the games instead of spending the time on trade show demos but I'm getting a bit nervous. I hope we see some better footage at Gamescom since they should have final hardware by then.
Pop-in is usually most connected with RAM and asset streaming. It could be something else but I think it's more likely a RAM issue.
No that one ran on a high end PC and this one ran on actual PS4.
It's a 30fps game. 60fps trailer is like current gen's bullshot.
Nope. It's the same dev kit for both of them. They outlined the specs in detail in one of their power points and Evolution and Quantic Dream made statements about various details of the dev kits that points that it's the same kit as in February.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
Game still has time to iron out the graphics issues.
I was just playing on some people's consensus that if it looks good then it's on PC and if it doesn't then it's on PS4.
The video is direct feed but obviously not native. It's compressed.
But whatever, all aboard the irrational hate train.
I was just playing on some people's consensus that if it looks good then it's on PC and if it doesn't then it's on PS4.
D'oh. Sarcasm meter was malfunctioning. Still, I want to clear it up for anyone else who may have believed you. There's a lot of evidence that this demo was thrown together last minute, I heard players weren't even allowed to go certain places by the attendants because of performance issues, but I just want some proof of it. Seeing the high quality models in a lighting test viewer and not in game don't instill much confidence. I'm looking forward to the game a lot, I just thought that the E3 demo would be more impressive graphically given the goals they've outlined. I'm pretty hyped for this game since I love what they're doing gameplay wise, I was just hoping it would be a real visual stunner for launch.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Yeah, couldn't agree more with that. Although, I've noticed that when I play games, I don't notice it as much as when I watch videos. I think to eliminate pop-in completely, it requires some insane GPU resources, just look at the witcher 2 no-grass-popin patch, and that game IMO looks simple by 'next gen' standards.
I think the best we can hope for is gradual fade-in, like most better engines now do, instead of just pop-in.
As far as this game in particular, I think the youtube video makes the problem appear worse than it really is, as some of the 'pop-in' is just due to garbage compression becoming less-garbage at times, so things that looked blurry a second ago become a bit more clear. It is really telling that despite all these '1080p' videos of this game, I still can't find a solid enough still from them that would tell me without doubt whether the game is using any AF or not. Every single paused frame is full of macro-blocking and compression smearing.
I'm lucky that pop-in is something that I don't notice much at all while playing games.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Yeah, I'm the same way actually. I guess your focus is not the same when you play as when you watch videos.
I think almost all of us are far less susceptible to pop in while playing the game rather than watching it because the latter provides ample time & opportunity to scrutinize every detail as the videos can replayed as many times as we want unlike while actually playing the game where moments rarely repeat and it keeps us preoccupied with more than just visuals.
I love the art style but I'm just a bit underwhelmed on a technical level. Not to say the game looks bad at all, far from it. I've watched/read GG's goals for the game and am skeptical that they can make them by launch if this demo is truly representative of what the game looks like. If I didn't know what they were aiming for I'd be much more impressed visually.
That said, I love the gameplay direction and have wanted FPS to go back to the Goldeneye/PD style for years. All of the gadgets, powers, and traversal are right up my alley.
If it's a CPU issue then it'll likely be solved before launch. They're still running audio and particles on the CPU on these devkits but they'll be on the dedicated audio chip and GPU in the final build. They also may have access to another CPU core.
SniperHunter
Banned
There is more pop up in this video than KZ2 and KZ3 combined (well I didn't notice much pop up in those games to begin with
)I think it will be ironed out by realese
Now we're just making shit up? Fun.
There is more pop up in this video than KZ2 and KZ3 combined (well I didn't notice much pop up in those games to begin with
I think it will be ironed out by realese
I think the prime reason for that is that GG launched KZ2 in 2009 and not at the launch of PS3. As such they had ample time with both prototype and finished hardware unlike the current situation.
I hope you're right.
Look at post #365
SniperHunter
Banned
neah, all this should be easy to fix, especially since PS4 is easy to program for. Graphical issues will be fixed by launch IMO
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Yeah, something about drawcalls. However, consoles have for whatever reason so far always been incredibly good at drawcalls compared to a comparable PC. I remember someone analyzing Wind Waker on Gamecube and not believing how many drawcalls the game was making for grass etc, without ever dropping a frame.
And the DOF effect, unbelievably, which looks kind of crappy because of that.
Your talking rubbish. They relesased a pdf of the Feb demo which went in great detail of how the PS4 was being used and how much memory it was running off.
Go and eat some crow.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
I wouldn't be surprised that in the final game (either the entire game or higher difficulties) the OWL could be destroyed. That would certainly make it more of a choice and consequence sort of game since you would have to plan better on when/where/how to use it if you wanted to keep it around for the duration.
What I want to see from next KZ (given I've abandoned all hope of devs doing something paradigm shifting) is an icon like this:
And what an absolutely astounding soundtrack it featured (one of my all time boss battle favourites).
Surprisingly it was in Mercenary where I found a unique character:
And what an absolutely astounding soundtrack it featured (one of my all time boss battle favourites).
Surprisingly it was in Mercenary where I found a unique character:
Ok, so tell me what's exactly new based on this video, which is what I can judge. Feel free to disagree.
FlutterPuffs
Member
It will take some time for them. Unlike DICE most of Sony's first party developers haven't worked with the advanced next gen graphics like DICE have and experience really helps. Even Guerilla lamented this in one of their Killzone 4 presentations.
I have faith that they'll leapfrog third party developers after a year or so though.
velociraptor
Junior Member
I concur. I would evern go as far as suggesting Radec to be the most badass protagonist of this generation. Anyone disagree?What I want to see from next KZ (given I've abandoned all hope of devs doing something paradigm shifting) is an icon like this:
And what an absolutely astounding soundtrack it featured (one of my all time boss battle favourites).
Surprisingly it was in Mercenary where I found a unique character:
I concur. I would evern go as far as suggesting Radec to be the most badass protagonist of this generation. Anyone disagree?
You mean antagonist.
I have always thought of him and his relationship with Visari to be parallel with Darth Vader and his relationship with Palpatine. In many ways, we see so little of Radec and yet his presence was iconic in the moments he did appear.
Less can be more and simpler can be more if moments reflected during that time can made proportionally impactful.
As such, going by GG's design decision, I feel like we may have lost it forever. What remains salvageable will be contingent on how much of and in what way is Echo portrayed in SF.
Mixed feelings. On the one hand, I appreciate GG willingness to explore a different visual tone, but on the other, I miss the unique grittiness of KZ2 color palette. I hope we'll get to see some darker evironments later one.
Gameplay wise, the Owl inclusion seems neat.
Can't really comment on the graphics as the video quality on YT is shitty...
Excitement level on this one : Average.
Gameplay wise, the Owl inclusion seems neat.
Can't really comment on the graphics as the video quality on YT is shitty...
Excitement level on this one : Average.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
People get so caught up in the single player, but honestly that's just the icing on top of the cake.
Killzone's single player has traditionally been pretty good, certainly better than the CoD's and BF's of the world, but sure, it's not "The Last of Us", and does anyone expect or care about that? It's a fun roller coaster ride, like Gears of War.
The real driver of this title's success will be multiplayer. If they can rekindle and polish the feeling that Killzone 2 delivered -- team work, gunplay, strategy -- and remove the garbage that made KZ2's multiplayer (rocket spamming, poor player counts for certain maps, and in KZ3's case ridiculously stupid and unbalanced mechs) they will have something very special.
KZ2 MP was the best on PS3, imho. I am really looking forward to great things for KZ:SF in this department. I hope it isn't an afterthought.
Killzone's single player has traditionally been pretty good, certainly better than the CoD's and BF's of the world, but sure, it's not "The Last of Us", and does anyone expect or care about that? It's a fun roller coaster ride, like Gears of War.
The real driver of this title's success will be multiplayer. If they can rekindle and polish the feeling that Killzone 2 delivered -- team work, gunplay, strategy -- and remove the garbage that made KZ2's multiplayer (rocket spamming, poor player counts for certain maps, and in KZ3's case ridiculously stupid and unbalanced mechs) they will have something very special.
KZ2 MP was the best on PS3, imho. I am really looking forward to great things for KZ:SF in this department. I hope it isn't an afterthought.
Yup, the additional colors are welcome, but at the same time I also enjoyed the wasteland look of KZ2.
I'm actually really excited for this though. It's my #2 launch game right behind BF4.
kutthoat5150
Member
weird that they went from a moving dynamic hud in the reveal to a static one at e3, this has my plasma worried
I like that the two Killzone games coming out at year's end will have different tones. One is darker and grittier, more like Killzone 2 and 3 (Mercenary) and one is more open and colorful (Shadow Fall). I wouldn't have wanted them to look the exact same, since I want them both.
I'm going to use this post as an excuse to post this video of Mercenary multiplayer footage. It's glorious and what some may be wanting that are disappointed in the look and tone of Shadow Fall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mVYR6b4Lqghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mVYR6b4Lqg
I'm going to use this post as an excuse to post this video of Mercenary multiplayer footage. It's glorious and what some may be wanting that are disappointed in the look and tone of Shadow Fall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mVYR6b4Lqghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mVYR6b4Lqg
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
I'm a single player only gamer. If the "main game" (meaning the single player game) isn't what I expect, then I've wasted my money.
Right now I've got it preordered but I'm waiting closer to launch to see whether I should cancel it or not. I'm not sure what they can do to fix this up enough before launch to assuage everyones concerns. Personally, I hope they let it release a lit bit after launch but before christmas to give the team some breathing room to tweak what little they can.
BTW, I'm with you guys on the use of color. In fact, I think the level they demoed with the terrorist bombing could have used a bit more of it. Something I've discussed often with my brother is artstyles causing enemies to blend into the backgrounds too much. In some games you can pretend that is an intentional camo effect but often it a stubbornness to not diversify the artyle enough that the gamer actually gets confused in combat. The dark gritty games often do this even though they could achieve that gritty feel without everything blending in together.
I am by no means an FPS guy, so unless the title provides a unique atmosphere (Bioshock, Dishonored, even KZ2 to a certain extent), I don't feel the urge to try -let alone- buy one. Too many of them on the market. That, and I feel motion sickeness after a 20 minutes session!
