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[amnesiac]

Goodnight.

 

[Aquamarine]

Everyone is ignoring the fact that Martin had pics of underage girls nude on his phone, he's a pedo.

1) That was never 100% confirmed

2) It's highly irrelevant to the murder or "aggressive behavior."



However, I will concede that Trayvon Martin wasn't a saint, based on the irrelevant cell-phone photos that the defense released:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/trayvon-martin-cell-phone-photos-show-weed-guns-and-horsebac

There are times when I definitely do think Trayvon's character is portrayed too innocently. But that definitely doesn't absolve Zimmerman of a manslaughter charge.

 

[Emerson]

IMO there is absolutely nothing surprising about this verdict. It was the only verdict the jury could deliver. The prosecution did not make a case that proved Zimmerman was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That case was frankly impossible to make with the evidence available.

I don't particularly believe Zimmerman is an innocent man, but not guilty was the correct verdict in this case in my view. We hold these cases to a higher standard for a reason.

 

[royalan]

According to the law, following someone isn't starting a conflict.

Yeah, but accosting someone and triggering a confrontation should remove a claim of self-defense, especially when you make no attempt to defend yourself prior to shooting.

 

[NinjaKixx]

No, he said a killer being called a killer was more sickening than the death of the person being killed.

What I said was wanting to crucify a man without evidence is more sad than one person dying. If we start throwing people in prison w/out evidence, none of us are safe.

 

[lazorexplosion]

Martin tried getting away from Zimmerman. Zimmerman then continued to follow him on food, after being told not to by the police dispatcher. Oh except according to the defense "he was just trying to find out the address and street name, because as a neighborhood watch man in an area with THREE, I repeat...THREE streets in it, he had no idea where he was. He called the cops just because he was suspicious. Fine. Sit in your damn vehicle and meet the police there. Don't go around and follow a suspected "criminal who looked like he was on drugs". He knew he would be putting himself in danger if all this were true. Instead he chose to get out and follow Trayvon, but then lost sight of him. And then all of a sudden as poor Mr. zimmerman was walking back to his vehicle, he was just savagely attaked out of the blue by this 17 year old kid who manages to beat him so bad to cause bleeding on his face and back of the head, and was covering his mouth to provent him screaming as well. But yet somehow Trayvon Martin had NO dna from Zimmerman anywhere on his hands. And Zimmerman being so scared just must have forgetten all about his MMA training and decided that a firearm and a shot to the heart was the only possible way for him to defend himself. Right, that whole story sounds just so plausible. Give me a break.

Now not in reference to the quoted post, but several I've seen around here and elsewhere. as for the whole race issue, I'm not saying that race didn't play a role, BUT everyone who is making comments about how racist America still is and white men, can get away with crimes against black people, just because of those issues. You're kinda grouping at least the majority of white Americans into one group, which is no better.

Full disclosure, just to explain my view point of the matter, I am a white male, and I have followed this entire trial and watched nearly every minute of the trial that had been telivised. And I have been continuously on the side of believing that at the very least Zimmerman deserved the manslaughter. I would probably have called it second degree murder, IF the prosecution hadn't made so many mistakes along the way. I just really don't think the prosecution was able to prove that much, as discouraging as it is, that they are a part of the reason why the verdict came back the way it did. Let's face it, the majority of us in this thread (the one's at least with level heads who can post maturely and with some substance to back up their opinions regardless of if they believe this was the right verdict or not) would all agree that this just further proves the need for reform in several areas of this country. The laws (ex: stand your ground, tighter restrictions on self-defense "shield" that can be hidden behind), the criminal justice system as a whole, the racial devides that sadly DO exist still in this day and age, etc. Unfortunately, even with the protests going on, all the resentment, those actually working on new ideas, I really doubt that any of those will change, simply because of this tragedy. It's attrocious, and a real wake up call to many, but sadly, any reforms would need the governments involvement, and let's face it, our current legislators are definitely not up for doing anything to help change any of those areas that they have control over. Regardless of the fact that it's what the MAJORITY of American citizens likely want, and we elect them to make the changes with OUR interests in mind. Let's just pray, that everyone stays safe and that these tragedies don't have to keep occuring time and time again before those officials finally manage to wake up and take charge and do something about these issues. Sadly, if the insane murder rates (particularry in certain cities), the Aurora shooting, the Newtown shooting, etc. have yet to do anything to improve the state of things given all of these tragedies and thensome, i just don't think that this will really make any difference for these polticians to FINALLY take charge. Hopefully one day soon enough though...I have no children yet, and I would definitely hold off on it even if I was ready for one in every other aspect of my life. I just can't imagine having a child and trying to explain to them how situations like this are completely acceptible.

Sorry that this post got so long, and a bit ranty and probably hard to follow. Just have a LOT of strong opinions about various aspects of this entire situation, and more and more of them just kept spilling out.

When you started writing an account of the case, did you make it a completely one sided summary instead of neutral presentation of the agreed facts and disputed issues because you are ignorant of the defense's case, or did you decide to ignore it because it wasn't convenient?

 

[Soler]

1) That was never 100% confirmed

2) It's highly irrelevant to the murder or "aggressive behavior."

However, I will concede that Trayvon Martin wasn't a saint, based on the irrelevant cell-phone photos that the defense released:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/trayvon-martin-cell-phone-photos-show-weed-guns-and-horsebac

There are times when I definitely do think Trayvon's character is portrayed too innocently. But that definitely doesn't absolve Zimmerman of a manslaughter charge.

I think he's being sarcastic

 

[Biker19]

Look, you fucking dummy, somebody's child was taken from them for the most unnecessary reason imaginable. This guy gets to walk. He gets to go back to... being alive, and being with his family, even if he's going to have to live it looking over his shoulder. At least he gets that. The jury judged in his favor. At least he gets his justice.

Trayvon doesn't get any justice. His family doesn't get any justice. Their son's killer said he fucking did it, and anybody that's been following the case since last year knows that he should have listened to the damn cops when they said for Zimmerman not to follow Trayvon. I've heard the recordings. If you have a functioning brain, you can manage to grab those facts for yourself too, and you can also manage to put two and two together.

You're so caught up in the law being the law that you can't open your eyes wide enough to see why anybody could possibly want to shove their foot into Zimmerman and co's urethras out of anger and frustration. This was all so unnecessary. Trayvon didn't have to fucking die.

My mind is severely boggled by your sheer incompetence. I'm astonished that you, with your minimal brain power, managed to even compile those words to form those sentences. Your IQ has to suffer strongly in some capacity for you to make the leap that anything about this is worse than the inarguable fact that SEVENTEEN YEAR OLD TRAYVON MARTIN IS DEAD.

You're stupid. So fucking stupid. Like, it makes me sad to know that your fingers allow you to espouse such tripe. I am devastated by this.

ill take my punishment now

Amen. IMO, NinjaKixx should've been banned instead of you.

 

[hey_monkey]

Honestly, I think there's near complete solidarity with Trayvon Martin and his family regardless of race. I don't honestly believe anyone with common sense genuinely believes Zimmerman didn't murder that kid. It highlights how black people are treated as second class citizens, but I think the people, as a whole, genuinely condemn this this.

Okay, I lied. Engaging enough to agree here. Yes. Yes. But I am so saddened and enraged that I just cannot be articulate.

 

[Kettch]

What I said was wanting to crucify a man without evidence is more sad than one person dying. If we start throwing people in prison w/out evidence, none of us are safe.

Yeah, none of us child killers are safe.

 

[Lysander518]

IMO there is absolutely nothing surprising about this verdict. It was the only verdict the jury could deliver. The prosecution did not make a case that proved Zimmerman was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That case was frankly impossible to make with the evidence available.

I don't particularly believe Zimmerman is an innocent man, but not guilty was the correct verdict in this case in my view. We hold these cases to a higher standard for a reason.

This. Every ineternet witness that acts like they know so much about the case because of some personal agenda needs to STFU.

 

[Madness]

Amen, bro. IMO, NinjaKixx should've been banned instead of you.

Satch is a girl...

 

[Sayter]

Not surprised. And I agree with the verdict.

 

[Aquamarine]

I think he's being sarcastic

It's really, really fucking hard to detect sarcasm on the internet sometimes. :-(

 

[NinjaKixx]

Amen, bro. IMO, NinjaKixx should've been banned instead of you.

Why should I be banned?

 

[Soler]

It's really, really fucking hard to detect sarcasm on the internet sometimes. :-(

Tbh
I fell for it and then I thought more about it

 

[FamousLastX]

I really don't think a lot of gaffers have children. I have a son, and I'm terrified at the thought that he might get killed because some random asshole thinks he's a criminal that needs to be questioned because he fits a profile.

I taught my son to fight off strangers if he can't get away from them. Now what am I supposed to tell him? If they're white men he needs to obey their every command because he's a minority?

Like I said in an earlier post, situations like this are a pretty major reason why I don't want to have a child anytime soon. I can't imagine how hard it's going to be for any parent to explain how despite what they've heard in school through history or politics classes about equality and justice, DESPITE that in reality, things in this country continue to degrade and even though not all cases get this much media attention, I guarentee that cases where justice is NOT truly served occur at least on a near daily basis.

I wish you the best of luck with helping your child make sense of all this, it's just a hard place to even begin to explain how anything like this can happen, especially when many parents make sure to place an emphasis on morality as one of the key things they try and teach their children. Situations like this are incomprehensible to many of us still, even if we've seen these injustices occur time and time again. To a young child though, this is sure to make them at a young age have trouble understanding HOW these situations are okay, even though one would think that based on the facts there was at least what one would think would be a clear case for manslaughter, nope. He gets to walk free and clear, and even get his firearm back and go on his merry way, while another human life was ended far too soon by another human who has shown no remorse, but has not even the slighest punishment handed to him.

My heart goes out to EVERY parent who has to try and explain to a child, how things like this can possibly happen in a country that they likely pledge allegience to every single day they are in school.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

This. Every ineternet witness that acts like they know so much about the case because of some personal agenda needs to STFU.

Ask 100 lawyers what the verdict would be and 99 would say what it turned out to be.

 

[Zeus Molecules]

When you start name-calling, I'm going to assume you are a child.

Or hear me out cause i wont respond to you again after this because I doubt it will lead to anything positive.


Maybe you chose to represent your opinion on an emotionally charged issues in a specific way in order to illcit an emotionally charged response? Then again maybe you didn't? Who really cares why or even more pertinent what you think on this issue?

 

[Jest Chillin]

Gotta say, "look back and smile" was a horrible choice of words. Also, racism ain't going anywhere until the entire human race is a nice shade of mocha. Then we'll find some other petty shit to discriminate and kill each other over.

Obligatory mention.

 

[NinjaKixx]

Yeah, none of us child killers are safe.

Are you incapable of realizing that it would set a precedence in all criminal trials that evidence is not necessary to convict?

 

[Wynnebeck]

Satch had the realest response in this entire thread.

Preach.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I don't feel very safe

So...man kills kid, he gets off.

Woman fires warning shots at abusive husband, she gets 20 years.

...what?

SMH

 

[Krappadizzle]

Why should I be banned?

You shouldn't. Emotions are running high, that's all.

 

[Soler]

This. Every ineternet witness that acts like they know so much about the case because of some personal agenda needs to STFU.

Exactly
Only thing people should be upset about is the prosecution

 

[IrishNinja]

^yup, my man zeus called it

Satch is a girl...

she's still a BRO, bro

Satch had the realest response in this entire thread.

+1

 

[hey_monkey]

Him going free certainly doesn't seem fair but would you want to be him???

I would never be him.

 

[FamousLastX]

When you started writing an account of the case, did you make it a completely one sided summary instead of neutral presentation of the agreed facts and disputed issues because you are ignorant of the defense's case, or did you decide to ignore it because it wasn't convenient?

What exactly in what I wrote is in dispute?

 

[Casimir]

Satch had the realest response in this entire thread.

And as we all know. You should never keep it real.

 

[Kettch]

Are you incapable of realizing that it would set a precedence in all criminal trials that evidence is not necessary to convict?

I want self defense to be required to be proven. So yes, I want that to set a precedence.

 

[Biker19]

Satch is a girl...

Thanks; I just edited my post on that.

Why should I be banned?

Because you're doing nothing but shouting gibberish & causing trouble.

 

[Daingurse]

Obligatory mention.

Thank you for making me smile.

 

[Metaphoreus]

Law GAF : can they even file a civil suit?

I know in my state if you are found to be justified in killing a person in self defense you CAN NOT BE SUED in a civil court for wrongful death.

You may be right about the law in your state, but that's a very odd rule, if so. The jury's verdict in this case merely means that the state hasn't proved Zimmerman's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. It doesn't mean that Zimmerman proved his justification by a preponderance of the evidence, which would be the standard in a civil case. So I don't see any reason that the verdict in this case should preclude a civil action by the family.

Now, my understanding is that in Ohio (and only Ohio), a criminal defendant must prove self-defense by a preponderance of the evidence. So, in Ohio, it would make sense for a finding of self-defense in a criminal case to preclude the issue being relitigated in a later civil case--the defendant already proved self-defense using the same standard that would apply in the civil case. I don't know if that's the law there, though.

 

[captmcblack]

Another day, another reminder that I am still just a lowly colored man in America. Good to always be ensured of knowing where we stand.

 

[MThanded]

Satch had the realest response in this entire thread.

It was too real.

 

[lazorexplosion]

What exactly in what I wrote is in dispute?

So if those are the undisputed facts, did you ever stop to wonder why a jury returned a not guilty verdict? Hint: it's because they aren't.

 

[Madness]

Another day, another reminder that I am still just a lowly colored man in America. Good to always be ensured of knowing where we stand.

Saw this pic on a forum today. Someone wrote: started from the bottom, still on the bottom. Powerful image.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I would never be him.

My point is his life is compromised, it's not back to normal nor ever will be.

That doesn't compare to someone that no longer has any life but I wouldn't want to be him with all the uproar/having to live with the fact that you ended someone's life.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

to be honest? satch said what a lot of people were thinking; the post you made that she was responding was really dumb, and really offensive. she kinda took one for the team since no one else wants to catch a ban over that struggle.

but empathy is some ol' emotional shit for people that aint read orwell, or something

Yea, she said what a lot of us were/are thinking. She actually put it really mildly.

 

[pigeon]

Are you incapable of realizing that it would set a precedence in all criminal trials that evidence is not necessary to convict?

Are you suggesting that nobody has ever been found guilty of something because of incomplete or circumstantial evidence in the history of the American legal system?

 

[MThanded]

Are you incapable of realizing that it would set a precedence in all criminal trials that evidence is not necessary to convict?

That's how self defense works in most states. You were probably too busy reading Orwell to know this.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Another day, another reminder that I am still just a lowly colored man in America. Good to always be ensured of knowing where we stand.

Hush. You should be thankful to have the opportunity to be stalked and profiled right here in America, the land of the free and home of the brave.

That's how self defense works in most states. You were probably too busy reading Orwell to know this.

Ether.

 

[Krappadizzle]

And as we all know. You should never keep it real.

All that happened was a bunch of name-calling.

 

[Casimir]

Another day, another reminder that I am still just a lowly colored man in America. Good to always be ensured of knowing where we stand.

It's ideologies like this that keep all the races irrationally suspicious of each other.

 

[thecouncil]

i think we need to figure out how this POS murderer beat a lie detector test:

George Zimmerman “told substantially the complete truth” when asked about the fatal shooting of Martin, according to the conclusion of a Voice Stress Analysis test conducted after the shooting. Zimmerman, who is facing a second-degree murder charge for killing Martin, was asked several questions. They include, “Did you confront the guy you shot?” Zimmerman answered “no.” He was also asked, “Where you in fear for your life, when you shot this guy?” Zimmerman answered, “yes.”

 

[wsoxfan1214]

do you think she's in hell?

Are you fucking serious, dude?

 

[pigeon]

It's ideologies like this that keep all the races irrationally suspicious of each other.

No, it's mostly the lynchings.

 

[toadsworth]

There is no justice whatsoever in america today.

Our founding fathers would be so proud.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Are you incapable of realizing that it would set a precedence in all criminal trials that evidence is not necessary to convict?

Laws can easily be made to represent that when someone maintains that they are innocent of commiting a crime, that they are innocent until proven guilty but when they admit that they've killed in Self Defense, that the burden of proof is on them.

Killing is a crime. Self Defense is a claim that excuses that crime. That's what you're failing to recognize.

 

[Lysander518]

I want self defense to be required to be proven. So yes, I want that to set a precedence.

You do realize that this idea is absolutely fucking insane right? People would hesitate to protect themselves because they would need to hire expensive lawyers in order to prove their innocence and risk going to jail. Criminals would know this and commit more crimes. More innocent people would get killed. For the one in a million case where someone may have gotten away with murder/manslaughter. That is not worth it.

You need to think with your head and not your personal feelings about what you believed happened.