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[mernst23]

Then why did the defense attorneys mention race in their post verdict interviews and why did they attempt to justify profiling on the stand.

People keep saying this and the lawyers themselves have been using justifiable profiling and a defense.

I can't wait until we find out the one holdout for manslaughter is the non white juror. You know its going to happen

 

[Imm0rt4l]

It's ideologies like this that keep all the races irrationally suspicious of each other.

Nah, as a black man it's not really irrational to believe you're trying to ice skate uphill. A lot of documented reasons to understand this is more true than just some ideology.

 

[botty]

I enjoy the discussion and have no hard feelings towards anyone in here. Everyone except the one dude have simply been stating their opinions and have not been making personal attacks.

Just how much are you enjoying it?

 

[Zeus Molecules]

I'm not even sure what the people suggesting that the ruling should have been the opposite are getting at.

Aren't you guys AGAINST the use of piss poor evidence to convict black people of crimes they probably did or didn't commit? If so, why are you FOR it when it's a white person?

You should take from this that gut feeling verdicts are not a good thing, white or black. Fight for GOOD consistency, not bad consistency so you could keep your false sense of justice.

First zimmerman wasn't white at best he would be considered biracial.... this isnt a white/black issue.

Secondly piss poor evidence is used EVERYDAY to convict black people of crimes.

Lastly I have to ask again why do people here have the gall to question why people would be pissed about this issue when the whole nation had to make a stink to even have the trial because a combination of ineptitude/nepotism/ and corruption conspired to not even have Zimmerman tried?

There is a clear lack
of empathy to the feelings of fellow gaffers in this thread that is honestly is disgusting.

 

[pigeon]

Really. Lynching. Come on.

lol, lets mention crimes that have been actively prosecuted for decades and even carry additional punishment to the point that they're now a historical artifact instead of present reality.

A lynching is a murder which goes unpunished due to a prevailing sentiment among the populace that the victim deserved it and that illegally punishing them was justice, often because of their race, a perception that people like them are corrosive to society, or both.

If you don't see the common thread, running through not merely this case but through the treatment of African-American males by the official and unofficial law throughout America's history and present, I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

[MThanded]

http://www.examiner.com/article/cla...assaulted-on-stage-at-blues-festival?cid=rss”

Please tell me this isn't a reputable source.

Pleas.e

It's true. Check out his Facebook page.

 

[DominoKid]

im not



Look, you fucking dummy, somebody's child was taken from them for the most unnecessary reason imaginable. This guy gets to walk. He gets to go back to... being alive, and being with his family, even if he's going to have to live it looking over his shoulder. At least he gets that. The jury judged in his favor. At least he gets his justice.

Trayvon doesn't get any justice. His family doesn't get any justice. Their son's killer said he fucking did it, and anybody that's been following the case since last year knows that he should have listened to the damn cops when they said for Zimmerman not to follow Trayvon. I've heard the recordings. If you have a functioning brain, you can manage to grab those facts for yourself too, and you can also manage to put two and two together.

You're so caught up in the law being the law that you can't open your eyes wide enough to see why anybody could possibly want to shove their foot into Zimmerman and co's urethras out of anger and frustration. This was all so unnecessary. Trayvon didn't have to fucking die.

My mind is severely boggled by your sheer incompetence. I'm astonished that you, with your minimal brain power, managed to even compile those words to form those sentences. Your IQ has to suffer strongly in some capacity for you to make the leap that anything about this is worse than the inarguable fact that SEVENTEEN YEAR OLD TRAYVON MARTIN IS DEAD.

You're stupid. So fucking stupid. Like, it makes me sad to know that your fingers allow you to espouse such tripe. I am devastated by this.



ill take my punishment now

damn.

 

[polyh3dron]

The doubt wasn't reasonable IMO.

That is all.

 

[speedline]

Just speaking as a first-termer here, but....

He was found not guilty of the charges, not the fact that he reasonably acted in self-defense. Key difference (IMO, lol)

This is the meat of the verdict, no one is saying GZ was innocent- it's just that the evidence did not show him to be guilty. It was also not the defenses burden of proof to show self defense, it was the prosecutions burden to prove murder and they did not have the evidence to support it.

 

[Aquamarine]

From what I am reading there is a separate hearing in Florida where you can claim self defense as immunity from civil and criminal prosecution. Apparently they waived this hearing and went with a jury trial as the burden is on the state to prove guilt instal of on him to prove self defense. So since he did this he can still be sued civilly.

Interesting.

Naturally, Zimmerman's lawyers are currently in the process of seeking civil suit immunity in response to this.

As a result, there must be various loopholes to combat civil suits...I'm not sure of the specifics, though.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

All that happened was a bunch of name-calling.

the two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[NinjaKixx]

Laws can easily be made to represent that when someone maintains that they are innocent of commiting a crime, that they are innocent until proven guilty but when they admit that they've killed in Self Defense, that the burden of proof is on them.

Killing is a crime. Self Defense is a claim that excuses that crime. That's what you're failing to recognize.

I dont fail to realize that. I know that I sat there and heard the biggest name in forensic Pathology testify that TM was on top of GZ. Couple that w/ the eye-witness testimony that TM was on top of GZ beating him. The stains on TM's knees and on GZ's back, and the damage to GZ's face and head and I believe that Self Defense was proven.

 

[speedline]

The doubt wasn't reasonable IMO.

That is all.

I'm curious as to what piece of evidence lead you to this conclusion?

 

[Wynnebeck]

Including your own. Like you know why Zimmerman followed TM.

When did I ever say I knew why Zimmerman (who already had testified he had followed and killed TM anyway) followed TM? You don't need to be a genius to understand TM got profiled and Zimmerman decided to take action.

 

[IrishNinja]

That's how self defense works in most states. You were probably too busy reading Orwell to know this.

Ether.

this was a timely & well-done post/reply

Lie detector tests are about as reliable as dowsing rods.

this also cannot be stressed enough...if you read up on them, it's the only logical conclusion
side note: shit fucks you up when reading daredevil though

I get this feeling that this thread is going to become a graveyard.

i'd say that's already begun...most hot political topics are, which is usually my cue to dip

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I knew the case was over for the prosecution when O'Mara put up the chart with what is reasonable doubt.

Very unlikely that it is self-defense= Not Guilty

 

[Lysander518]

Nope. What would happen is that people would be forced to think before using Lethal Force. The fact that Trials have become a competition of which lawyer can bend Laws best in favor of their argument rather than an actual investigation of Truth over Fiction shows how perverted the system has become.

It should not be about who can get the better lawyer but about what the actual truth is.

If a criminal was commiting a crime against me, the first thing that I would want to do is have to deliberate if I wanted to protect myself, my family, and/or property or not because I would have to put up with legal fees. Are you people actually insane enough to believe that this is a good idea?

 

[MrToughPants]

Including your own. Like you know why Zimmerman followed TM.

Racial profiling and playing police when he could have just reported it and went home. Or AT WORST stay in his vehicle and monitor the individual until the police showed up. But he wanted to be Rambo and killed a teen.

How this guy got off scott free should be infuriating. BUT you can only go by his word and what little evidence there is and who is going to tell the truth and put themselves in jail for 20 years? This isn't Denzel Washington in Flight.

Too many should haves and could haves with shit laws in a shit state with shit prosecutors.

 

[NinjaKixx]

Just how much are you enjoying it?

I dont know what your getting at. I cant reverse time and stop GZ from shooting the kid. If I could, I would. All we can do now is talk about it. I think it's and interesting topic.

 

[Velcro Fly]

Racial profiling and playing police when he could have just reported it and went home. Or AT WORST stay in his vehicle and monitor the individual until the police showed up. But he wanted to be Rambo and killed a teen.

How this guy got off scott free should be infuriating. BUT you can only go by his word and what little evidence there is and who is going to lie and put themselves in jail for 20 years? This isn't Denzel Washington in Flight.

thanks for the spoilers

 

[wildfire]

Didn't expect to see this at EVO. Great timing.

 

[Yoritomo]

Can I use lethal force to defend myself if my head is being slammed against concrete?

 

[thecouncil]

So...man kills kid, he gets off.

Woman fires warning shots at abusive husband, she gets 20 years.

...what?

On Aug. 1, 2010, Alexander was working for a payroll software company. She was estranged from her husband, Rico Gray, and had a restraining order against him, even though they'd had a baby together just nine days before. Thinking he was gone, she went to their former home to retrieve the rest of her clothes, family members said.

An argument ensued, and Alexander said she feared for her life when she went out to her vehicle and retrieved the gun she legally owned. She came back inside and ended up firing a shot into the wall, which ricocheted into the ceiling.

well, that probably didnt help her.

Can I use lethal force to defend myself if my head is being slammed against concrete?

no.

 

[Gr1mLock]

Please. Please dont kill me if you see me walking to work. I had nothing to do with this. Just saying.

 

[Lysander518]

Please stop being obtuse. You know exactly what race meant to this trial.

Firstly, verdict. Secondly, no, please explain it to me. Are you trying to say that a biracial man walked because Martin was black?

 

[Kacho]

Saw some footage of peaceful protesting on HLN just now.

Doing it right, folks.

 

[Steelrain]

It's not that hard to beat a lie detector test.

If you're infantry or Special Forces of ANY military in the world, you're taught how to beat one as are other high-profile/high-risk of death jobs.

No you're not.

Stop talking about shit you know nothing about.

 

[Kettch]

I dont fail to realize that. I know that I sat there and heard the biggest name in forensic Pathology testify that TM was on top of GZ. Couple that w/ the eye-witness testimony that TM was on top of GZ beating him. The stains on TM's knees and on GZ's back, and the damage to GZ's face and head and I believe that Self Defense was proven.

That evidence shows that Martin won the fight. It does not show that he started the fight.

Even if self defense had been proven here (which it wasn't), it didn't need to be. Which is a huge problem.

 

[MThanded]

I dont fail to realize that. I know that I sat there and heard the biggest name in forensic Pathology testify that TM was on top of GZ. Couple that w/ the eye-witness testimony that TM was on top of GZ beating him. The stains on TM's knees and on GZ's back, and the damage to GZ's face and head and I believe that Self Defense was proven.

There are a lot of factually incorrect sentences in this post. I'm on mobile right now but no witness saw the actual fight. The pathologist said it was most likely TM on top when he got shot and no assumptions about the rest of the scuffle. The damage on the head and face was relatively minor when compared to a claim of being bashed against concrete 25 times.

You are just connecting the dots in your head though. In here talking about evidence and you are making shit up.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Racial profiling and playing police when he could have just reported it and went home.

Preface: Don't condone Zimmerman following him at all.

But that would be pointless in his mind to do because he aired how frustrated he was that they always got away.

It was the wrong decision but I assume he didn't do what you said because by the time the cops got there, the dude would have been gone.

 

[DyTonic]

Free Satch, emotions are high

 

[Mr. Patch]

It's true. Check out his Facebook page.

Sad.

Also, ironic as hell.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I dont fail to realize that. I know that I sat there and heard the biggest name in forensic Pathology testify that TM was on top of GZ. Couple that w/ the eye-witness testimony that TM was on top of GZ beating him. The stains on TM's knees and on GZ's back, and the damage to GZ's face and head and I believe that Self Defense was proven.

What you said has absolutely no relevance to what I posted. None whatsoever. How about you respond to what I said rather than avoiding it by discussing which opinions were given in testimony that you agreed with. Because the City's Medical Examiner disagreed with the Defense's paid Pathology witness and another eye-witness (btw non of the so called eye-witnesses actually saw what happened at the time of the shot) said the opposite of the one you're citing.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

First zimmerman wasn't white at best he would be considered biracial.... this isnt a white/black issue.

Secondly piss poor evidence is used EVERYDAY to convict black people of crimes.

Lastly I have to ask again why do people here have the gall to question why people would be pissed about this issue when the whole nation had to make a stink to even have the trial because a combination of ineptitude/nepotism/ and corruption conspired to not even have Zimmerman tried?

There is a clear lack
of empathy to the feelings of fellow gaffers in this thread that is honestly is disgusting.

Thanks for the correction.

As for your second point, that -is- my point. Piss poor evidence is used to convict black people of crimes. What I'm seeing in this thread is the call to prosecute Zimmerman using piss poor evidence. Does that mean people in this thread are FOR the prosecution of people using piss poor evidence? I would have expected better. Two wrongs don't make a right.

As for your last point, that wasn't my intention. I understand why people are angry, I am disappointed myself things turned out the way they did. However, you can't convict people over emotional reasons or gut reasons, those are the same reasons that are used to convict black people of so many crimes that they did not commit. There is a disgusting lack of consistency here. People are playing a dangerous "eye for an eye" game when really their efforts should be concentrated on making the law more fair, by IMPROVING IT, not by making it equally bad for everyone.

 

[chronos4590]

im not



Look, you fucking dummy, somebody's child was taken from them for the most unnecessary reason imaginable. This guy gets to walk. He gets to go back to... being alive, and being with his family, even if he's going to have to live it looking over his shoulder. At least he gets that. The jury judged in his favor. At least he gets his justice.

Trayvon doesn't get any justice. His family doesn't get any justice. Their son's killer said he fucking did it, and anybody that's been following the case since last year knows that he should have listened to the damn cops when they said for Zimmerman not to follow Trayvon. I've heard the recordings. If you have a functioning brain, you can manage to grab those facts for yourself too, and you can also manage to put two and two together.

You're so caught up in the law being the law that you can't open your eyes wide enough to see why anybody could possibly want to shove their foot into Zimmerman and co's urethras out of anger and frustration. This was all so unnecessary. Trayvon didn't have to fucking die.

My mind is severely boggled by your sheer incompetence. I'm astonished that you, with your minimal brain power, managed to even compile those words to form those sentences. Your IQ has to suffer strongly in some capacity for you to make the leap that anything about this is worse than the inarguable fact that SEVENTEEN YEAR OLD TRAYVON MARTIN IS DEAD.

You're stupid. So fucking stupid. Like, it makes me sad to know that your fingers allow you to espouse such tripe. I am devastated by this.



ill take my punishment now

Bless you Snatch for keeping it real. Went out with honor

 

[United]

Oh dear lord, some of the people in here victimizing themselves because of the color of their skins is ridiculous. Grow a sense of pride please. That is why, to some degree, racism exists in the United States.

''I am just a lowly nigger." Please GTFO with that sentiment.

 

[TruckDriver]

Preface: Don't condone Zimmerman following him at all.

But that would be pointless in his mind to do because he aired how frustrated he was that they always got away.

It was the wrong decision but I assume he didn't do what you said because by the time the cops got there, the dude would have been gone.

And what was that dude doing exactly? The kid was tracked for being a young black kid.

 

[Liferebooted]

I'm just glad that the jurors were smart enough to see past that innocent school boy walking home eating skittles bs.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Question: If GZ intended to kill Martin in coldblooded murder, why was there a fight at all? He had a gun on him, he could have shot the kid while walking behind him, or even if Trayvon made an aggressive move toward GZ.

 

[MThanded]

Preface: Don't condone Zimmerman following him at all.

But that would be pointless in his mind to do because he aired how frustrated he was that they always got away.

It was the wrong decision but I assume he didn't do what you said because by the time the cops got there, the dude would have been gone.

Gone from what. If his assumption was true wouldn't the guy have broken into the house or something. That's not justification and that justification seems to imply ill will as specified by the murder 2 jury instruction.

 

[Sub_Level]

Satch is a girl...

She still constitutes as a bro under the official bro criteria booklet and i would buy her a beer.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Because the City's Medical Examiner

Dude was a disaster.

 

[The Faceless Master]

well, that probably didnt help her.

iirc, the vehicle was in the garage with the driveway closed and only the door from the kitchen to the garage was open and there was no way for her to open the garage door and drive out.

 

[Lysander518]

I want people to hesitate killing others. The neutral state of killing someone should not be legal.

If you are acting in self defense, there should be evidence you were acting in self defense. You can present that at your trial.

How exactly does someone present evidence that they were acting in self defense beyond a reasonable doubt? If I shot a mugger in a back alley, I would only have my own word. The reason that the law is how it is, is because cases in which people try to frame self defense are exceedingly rare and generally easy to see through.

 

[Casimir]

Then why did the defense attorneys mention race in their post verdict interviews and why did they attempt to justify profiling on the stand.

People keep saying this and the lawyers themselves have been using justifiable profiling and a defense.

Profiling is not inherently evil or wrong. In security situations, its the most efficient way to locate and minimize preventable crime. It's just that due to history, it is often only associated (and has exclusively been used) with racial/ethnic profiling. Which is wrong.

For example: If your a security guard at the boarding gate for an airport and you profile to locate someone in the line who is nervously darting his eyes around and sweating profusely. Picking him out for further questioning due to that is not wrong. Because that persons behavior is not normative to the situation that they are supposed to be facing. And most likely, they are one of three things:

1. Afraid of flying/First time flying and appropriately nervous
2. They're ill and displaying common symptoms of sickness.
3. They're nervous Because they're committing or about to commit a crime.
a. This might be smuggling banned creatures too or from a country
b. The rare, genuine Terrorist.
c. Criminal fleeing prosecution/jail.

Now on the other hand, singling out people, just due to the fact that most terrorists are middle eastern, and they just happen to fall into the same ethnic/racial category is wrong.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Can I use lethal force to defend myself if my head is being slammed against concrete?

Not if you are a racist.

 

[Golgi_Apparati]

Here's my opinion:

If you believe in religion, GZ will go to hell for what happened. However, based on the laws, he should be a free man.

 

[royalan]

If a criminal was commiting a crime against me, the first thing that I would want to do is have to deliberate if I wanted to protect myself, my family, and/or property or not because I would have to put up with legal fees. Are you people actually insane enough to believe that this is a good idea?

So you think changing the law so that people would have to be held accountable for using deadly force would lead to problems?

How about the fact that "justifiable homicides" nearly tripled in Florida since "Stand Your Ground" was enacted?

 

[MThanded]

Question: If GZ intended to kill Martin in coldblooded murder, why was there a fight at all? He had a gun on him, he could have shot the kid while walking behind him, or even if Trayvon made an aggressive move toward GZ.

He didn't that's why he wasn't up for murder 1 charge. He was negligent in the death though and that's why murder 2 and manslaughter ended up on the jury documents.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

And what was that dude doing exactly? The kid was tracked for being a young black kid.

Thinking what Zimmerman's mindset was, not thinking like him myself.