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[Madrin]

I don't know why this post is getting quoted so many times; it revolves entirely around a faulty assumption, namely that justice is perfectly served under the law, and that questioning the application of the law is itself irrational. I shouldn't have to explain why this is wrong.

People are not angry that Zimmerman did something illegal and got away with it. People are angry that Zimmerman did something that should by any reasonable standard be illegal and got away with it. If due to the absurdities of Florida state criminal law, a weak prosecution, and an unfortunate lack of evidence from one party involved, Zimmerman was declared not guilty despite his undisputed and entirely negligent role in creating the circumstances that led to the shooting of an unarmed person, that just proves that the self-defense laws in Florida are severely flawed and the justice system broken. Of course, this is by no means the first or only case that proves that, but it is the latest and one of the most tragic.

The justice system has not revealed some infallible and unimpeachable truth about objective reality here. It would be idiotic to say that the verdict actually vindicates or absolves Zimmerman in any but a strict legal, formal sense. It's only revealed that six people who don't bother to pay attention to the news were sufficiently swayed by a high-powered legal team and a horribly deficient prosecution not to convict someone under a precisely worded statute. Is this a victory for following the absolute letter of the law? Probably. Is this is a victory for anyone considering the ethics of what happened and what it means for our broader society? Absolutely not.

I was just about to quote that post and write the same response. Well said. The justice system is supposed to be a formal representation of our collective sense of fairness. The verdict of this case only served "justice" in the legal sense that it abode by the rules of the American justice system. "Justice" as an extension of the human sense of fairness was not served. It's not fair that Zimmerman created a bad situation and ended it in the worst way possible and was not punished for it.

The lack of punishment for Zimmerman is a symptom of a flawed justice system, not proof that justice prevails over vengeance. This verdict demonstrates that, as long as there is a lack of witnesses and you make a case for "self-defense" when the trial comes, you can get away with killing someone. That's a chilling thought that demands a re-assessment of the system.

 

[googleplex]

As a black male, what's fair is fair. Trayvon wasn't an angel, if someone has authority over you.. no need to feel like you are above them and escalate a situation.

What the fuck??

WHAT THE FUCK??? What god damned authority did Zimmerman have over Travon??

Was Travon supposed to fall to his knees with his hands behind his head,when Mast'a George was stalking him like a run away slave?

How fucking dare Travon now bow his head in submission to his white betters.

 

[maniac-kun]

Nice "justice" system you got there.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Not even sure why someone has to be a complete angel to be spared death. Victim blaming stuff makes my head spin.

Hey Devo, if you're walking in a public area not completely covered head to toe, have your face covered, and not accompanied by a man, it's your own damned fault. Who the hell do you think you are?

I mean seriously...

 

[Angry Fork]

i hope the kitties on your beard don't go flying

... I never noticed there were kittens there until now. Just assumed it was a white beard without looking too much at the image.

 

[Derwind]

i hope the kitties on your beard don't go flying

I honestly didn't know they were cats.... the fuck, that changes everything.

/mindblown

 

[Devolution]

... I never noticed there were kittens there until now. Just assumed it was a white beard without looking too much at the image.

I honestly didn't know they were cats.... the fuck, that changes everything.

/mindblown

People still learnin'.

 

[Souldriver]

I haven't followed this murder/trail closely, but that outcome is....well, rather unexpected.

I really truly hope the verdict is well thought and based on evidence, because my gut says otherwise.


And to end my comment with some flamebait. The concept of a neighborhood watch (with fire arms no less) is preposterous, and should not exist.

 

[Professor Beef]

... I never noticed there were kittens there until now. Just assumed it was a white beard without looking too much at the image.

I honestly didn't know they were cats.... the fuck, that changes everything.

/mindblown

And to end my comment with some flamebait. The concept of a neighborhood watch (with fire arms no less) is preposterous, and should not exist.

I don't really think that's flamebait, especially the bolded.

 

[DY_nasty]

I haven't followed this murder/trail closely, but that outcome is....well, rather unexpected.

I really truly hope the verdict is well thought and based on evidence, because my gut says otherwise.


And to end my comment with some flamebait. The concept of a neighborhood watch (with fire arms no less) is preposterous, and should not exist.

He wasn't a member of the neighborhood watch at all.

At least not a part of the official one.

 

[Metaphoreus]

Well see the extenuating circumstances here is that she's black and a woman.

You should give the below interview a listen for some additional details about that case:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgXQLBkKA8w

A poster earlier talked about men in a bar cheering at the verdict. For people who erupt into cheers at the thought of Zimmerman being free, what does this case mean to them? A guilty ruling would have been a victory for civil rights for alot people.
But on the opposite side, what does the innocent ruling mean? I mean i can understand being ok with the verdict but to cheer is interesting. Not hating or anything, just wondering what kind of landmark case this is for the other side.

I think that a large portion of those who were actually cheering Zimmerman on, and contributing to his defense fund, were people who viewed the prosecution as an attack on gun rights or the right to self-defense. Importantly, it isn't as though those people (or most of them, hopefully) were opposed to civil rights, and that that's why they favored Zimmerman. It was more like two groups talking past each other--one group said the case was about civil rights; the other said it was about gun rights.

 

[Soler]

I haven't followed this murder/trail closely, but that outcome is....well, rather unexpected.

I really truly hope the verdict is well thought and based on evidence, because my gut says otherwise.


And to end my comment with some flamebait. The concept of a neighborhood watch (with fire arms no less) is preposterous, and should not exist.

The verdict was not unexpected lol
And why can't someone be part f the neighborhood watch and excercise the 2nd amendment ?

Well see the extenuating circumstances here is that she's black and a woman.

So ignorant

 

[Derwind]

I haven't followed this murder/trail closely, but that outcome is....well, rather unexpected.

I really truly hope the verdict is well thought and based on evidence, because my gut says otherwise.


And to end my comment with some flamebait. The concept of a neighborhood watch (with fire arms no less) is preposterous, and should not exist.

Tamest and probably most rational flame bait I've ever seen. Well done.

 

[Souldriver]

He wasn't a member of the neighborhood watch at all.

At least not a part of the official one.

Then what the .... I don't even want to know the details of this case anymore, I'm afraid it would make me rage.

 

[Metaphoreus]

He wasn't a member of the neighborhood watch at all.

At least not a part of the official one.

Look up Wendy Dorival's testimony. She talks in detail about Zimmerman's role in the neighborhood watch program being established in that neighborhood.

 

[DY_nasty]

The verdict was not unexpected lol
And why can't someone be part f the neighborhood watch and excercise the 2nd amendment ?

Every neighborhood should have its own unorganized militia.

So ignorant

20 years

Look up Wendy Dorival's testimony. She talks in detail about Zimmerman's role in the neighborhood watch program being established in that neighborhood.

Which goes against his initial claims of involvement with the neighborhood watch when he was questioned prior charges being made. .

Dude was in contact with the police regularly, acting 'like' neighborhood watch or performing similar functions at times - but he definitely was not what general neighborhood watch groups are about.

 

[siddhu33]

I'm suprised this guy even got a trial to be honest. Florida's silly laws might have just kept him out of that. But to deny that he was guilty of something? Come on.

Just wondering what would happen if the races were switched. A black guy shooting a white teenager. Probably 25-life straight away. That dave chapelle law and order skit comes to mind.

 

[RiccochetJ]

I haven't followed this murder/trail closely, but that outcome is....well, rather unexpected.

I really truly hope the verdict is well thought and based on evidence, because my gut says otherwise.


And to end my comment with some flamebait. The concept of a neighborhood watch (with fire arms no less) is preposterous, and should not exist.

I don't think that Zimmerman intended to kill the kid which is what he was being charged for. I do think he is a racist asshole and his actions ultimately caused Trayvon Martin's death and I hope he gets sued to high heaven for it. Fucker should have stayed in his car like the authorities told him to do.

 

[Jak140]

The verdict was not unexpected lol
And why can't someone be part f the neighborhood watch and excercise their 2nd amendment ?

It's called neighborhood watch, not neighborhood chase. If you have a gun, don't bring it with you on neighborhood watch, or at the very least don't pursue someone, especially if you are carrying a loaded gun. That's not being neighborhood watch, that's being a fucking vigilante.

 

[Soler]

Every neighborhood should have its own unorganized militia.


20 years

Everyone has the right to bear arms lol I'm not sure what you're even trying to get at

Yea attempted murder will give you that
And she was offered a 3 year plea deal but she refused because she said she did nothing wrong lol
Warning shots my ass

It's called neighborhood watch, not neighborhood chase. If you have a gun, don't bring it with you on neighborhood watch, or at the very least don't pursue someone, especially if you are carrying a loaded gun. That's not being neighborhood watch, that's being a fucking vigilante.

I'm not aware of Floridas gun laws but I'm going to assume they're allowed to openly carry firearms so they're allowed to do so. Really not a hard concept to grasp lol

 

[Ploid 3.0]

omg hahaha

 

[Metaphoreus]

Which goes against his initial claims of involvement with the neighborhood watch when he was questioned prior charges being made. .

I'm not familiar with the claims you're referring to. Care to elaborate?

EDIT:

Dude was in contact with the police regularly, acting 'like' neighborhood watch or performing similar functions at times - but he definitely was not what general neighborhood watch groups are about

Is that what he claimed initially? And are you saying that Dorival was wrong when she described Zimmerman's role in the neighborhood watch program?

 

[Derwind]

And why can't someone be part f the neighborhood watch and excercise their 2nd amendment ?

Goes against Neighborhood watch protocol. You can exercise your second amendment right but you're being negligent if you start representing the Neighborhood watch as a gun toting vigilante.

 

[SRTtoZ]

I haven't followed this murder/trail closely, but that outcome is....well, rather unexpected.

I really truly hope the verdict is well thought and based on evidence, because my gut says otherwise.


And to end my comment with some flamebait. The concept of a neighborhood watch (with fire arms no less) is preposterous, and should not exist.

What? It was completely expected. There was never enough evidence to put him away for murder.

 

[Soler]

Goes against Neighborhood watch protocol. You can exercise your second amendment right but you're being negligent if you start representing the Neighborhood watch as a gun toting vigilante.

I don't recall him toting it at all

 

[crozier]

From my facebook feed

Yep, saving that one. I have a lot of conservative friends so I'm debating whether to post it. I can already tell where discussions would lead...

 

[DY_nasty]

Everyone has the right to bear arms lol I'm not sure what you're even trying to get at

Yea attempted murder will give you that
And she was offered a 3 year plea deal but she refused because she said she did nothing wrong lol
Warning shots my ass

I'm not aware of Floridas gun laws but I'm going to assume they're allowed to openly carry firearms so they're allowed to do so. Really not a hard concept to grasp lol

Neighborhood watch carrying guns is giving anyone with a concealed carry the idea that they can be their own and everyone else's police officer.

Fuck that. Its not allowed for a reason. Liability for one. Lack of training for another. Ridiculousness is easy to see here.

Edit: Regarding that woman - yeah, exactly what I said before. She didn't get free money for a legal team, her defense was dumb, she was overconfident in her idea of self-defense, and she was hit with 20 years for it. That is fucking hilarious to me.

 

[Derwind]

I don't recall him toting it at all

So he wasn't carrying a fully loaded weapon around which he then discharged?

Maybe your definition of to tote something and mine are different.

 

[kurbaan]

Well see the extenuating circumstances here is that she's black and a woman.

WOW that article. Its clear its because she is black. Or would the judge have preferred she killed her husband so that she can get off on the self defense law?

Whoever that judge was they need to be dragged out of court.

 

[Shabutaro]

I think that a large portion of those who were actually cheering Zimmerman on, and contributing to his defense fund, were people who viewed the prosecution as an attack on gun rights or the right to self-defense. Importantly, it isn't as though those people (or most of them, hopefully) were opposed to civil rights, and that that's why they favored Zimmerman. It was more like two groups talking past each other--one group said the case was about civil rights; the other said it was about gun rights.

That makes sense I suppose. And well said. I didnt think the other group was anti civil rights per say, although I did get alot of vibes of almost fatigue of race conversations.
I wonder if this is truly a victory for gun rights though. I don't know the national sentiment, but I would guess that this whole case left a bitter taste in most of Americas mouth.
Thats just speculation though, of course it could be the other way around, and the case does establish some form of legal precedent....

 

[Soler]

Neighborhood watch carrying guns is giving anyone with a concealed carry the idea that they can be their own and everyone else's police officer.

Fuck that. Its not allowed for a reason. Liability for one. Lack of training for another. Ridiculousness is easy to see here.

I'm not seeing that

If he can get the license I'm sure he knows how to use it, he unfortunately used it on trayvon.

So he wasn't carrying a fully loaded weapon around which he then discharged?

Maybe your definition of to tote something and mine are different.

I see toting as just showing it off
If you think him having a concealed firearms a problem you need to take that up with the constitution

 

[DY_nasty]

I'm not seeing that

If he can get the license I'm sure he knows how to use it, he unfortunately used it on trayvon.

Dude. I literally qualify people to use semi-automatic rifles and handguns as part of my job.

Just because you can shoot at a set target does NOT mean you're fit to fill in for a trained police officer. A kid is literally dead because of someone thinking that they could do a cop's job. This is like one of the worst spots to try and make that argument lol

 

[Jak140]

Everyone has the right

I'm not aware of Floridas gun laws but I'm going to assume they're allowed to openly carry firearms so they're allowed to do so. Really not a hard concept to grasp lol

In Florida you are allowed to concealed carry not open carry. Just because you are legally allowed to do something, does not mean you are not creating a dangerous situation by doing so, that is why it's against neighborhood watch policy to carry a gun during rounds, because it allows trigger happy vigilantes like Zimmerman to play wannabe cop without proper training. If Zimmerman had just stayed in his car like neighborhood watch policy dictates none of this would have happened. If he just left his gun in the car or if he had just properly identified himself as neighborhood watch, it's likely no one would have died that night.

 

[Soler]

Edit: Regarding that woman - yeah, exactly what I said before. She didn't get free money for a legal team, her defense was dumb, she was overconfident in her idea of self-defense, and she was hit with 20 years for it. That is fucking hilarious to me.

Lol she tried to kill her husband
We went mental and shot at her husband, if you have issues with your spouse you get a divorce you don't shoot them

 

[siddhu33]

I'm not seeing that

If he can get the license I'm sure he knows how to use it, he unfortunately used it on trayvon.

I see toting as just showing it off
If you think him having a concealed firearms a problem you need to take that up with the constitution

Nowadays you can get a gun easier than almost anything else. I don't think you actually need experience and training to buy and use a gun.

Heck, police go through lots of training, and they still make the wrong call, due to fear, anxiety, or whatever. Neighbourhood watch should see a problem, and call the cops. That's it. No pursuing, no chasing, nothing. See a problem, call the police, and hide. It's neighbourhood watch, not neighbourhood chase.

 

[DY_nasty]

Lol she tried to kill her husband
We went mental and shot at her husband, if you have issues with your spouse you get a divorce you don't shoot them

After he started the whole thing, yeah.

 

[Soler]

Dude. I literally qualify people to use semi-automatic rifles and handguns as part of my job.

Just because you can shoot at a set target does NOT mean you're fit to fill in for a trained police officer. A kid is literally dead because of someone thinking that they could do a cop's job. This is like one of the worst spots to try and make that argument lol

Congrats?
He acted rashly and there was a confrontation that shouldn't have happened, but he felt his life was in danger in the end and he used the firearm
He prob should've shot him somewhere else but it happens when you're in a tense situation

After he started the whole thing, yeah.

I'm going to stop you right there because its clear you have no clue what happened or you're just really reaching hard for this race thing where it didn't play a part

 

[Jackpot]

I would certainly be predisposed to rioting if I lived in Florida today.

 

[Derwind]

I see toting as just showing it off
If you think him having a concealed firearms a problem you need to take that up with the constitution

Toting is to carry an object/load/burden around. Carrying something fully loaded to is another burden.

I don't give a fuck about concealed firearms, I'm saying its negligent to conduct Neighborhood watch duties with a loaded gun.

 

[Devolution]

God it's just like when the shit first hit the news. People thinking GZ had authority, that people have to submit themselves to a fucking Neighborhood Watch as if they're some kind of security. Newsflash, GZ was just a fucking person with no fucking authority. He gave it to himself and people seem fine with that. Really makes me scared that people genuinely defend this kind of nonsense. There's a reason cops are called and have training, it's called procedure to limit this kind of bullshit.

 

[Soler]

Toting is to carry an object/load/burden around. Carrying something fully loaded to is another burden.

I don't give a fuck about concealed firearms, I'm saying its negligent to conduct Neighborhood watch duties with a loaded gun.

I don't think your opinions hold any weight in a legal sense

 

[Soler]

God it's just like when the shit first hit the news. People thinking GZ had authority, that people have to submit themselves to a fucking Neighborhood Watch as if they're some kind of security. Newsflash, GZ was just a fucking person with no fucking authority. He gave it to himself and people seem fine with that. Really makes me scared that people genuinely defend this kind of nonsense. There's a reason cops are called and have training, it's called procedure to limit this kind of bullshit.

Well there is something called a citizens arrest but yea Zimmerman had no reason to even go after the kid
Just bad judgement led to a terrible incident

 

[Jak140]

I don't think your opinions hold any weight in a legal sense

Legality and morality are different things. Ideally, in a perfect world they would line up, but in this case they didn't, hence the justifiable outrage.

 

[RiccochetJ]

You should give the below interview a listen for some additional details about that case:

I really should have.

So ignorant

Apparently.

Edit: Obviously.

 

[Devolution]

I don't think your opinions hold any weight in a legal sense

Community members only serve as the extra “eyes and ears” of law enforcement. They should report their observations of suspicious activities to law enforcement; however, citizens should never try to take action on those observations. Trained law enforcement should be the only ones ever to take action based on observations of suspicious activities.

http://www.usaonwatch.org/assets/publications/0_NW_Manual_1210.pdf

 

[Novoitus]

kind of just realized how insanely liberal neogaf is.

 

[Skelter]

Well see the extenuating circumstances here is that she's black and a woman.

There's more.

 

[IrishNinja]

Lol she tried to kill her husband
We went mental and shot at her husband, if you have issues with your spouse you get a divorce you don't shoot them

lol "it was to escape a brutal beating by her husband, against whom she had already taken out a protective order" lol

I don't think your opinions hold any weight in a legal sense

she's 100% correct legally tho

kind of just realized how insanely liberal neogaf is.

i love lamp is almost always a better non-sequitor

 

[DY_nasty]

Congrats?
He acted rashly and there was a confrontation that shouldn't have happened, but he felt his life was in danger in the end and he used the firearm
He prob should've shot him somewhere else but it happens when you're in a tense situation

His life wouldn't have been in danger if he wasn't trying to pretend to be a cop and listened to the actual ones on the other end of the 911 line. It'd be different if he was patrolling the many acres of his farmland by himself in the middle of the night but that was not the case at all.

DUH

I'm going to stop you right there because its clear you have no clue what happened or you're just really reaching hard for this race thing where it didn't play a part

Honestly, there's no point in arguing over her case either way. I'm not going to pretend that I'm gonna re-read the articles on that tonight. I will say that this remains true though - that woman was exceedingly confident in her idea of self-defense/displayed a lack of knowledge regarding the laws in play, she did not get free money for a legal team, and getting a sentence that is excessive to say the least is textbook institutional racism at work.

 

[T'Zariah]

Cases like this and the people defending this shit is reasons why I sometimes think humanity needs a goddamn reset button. The Cognitive dissonance and willful ignoring of institutionalized racism as mere "whining" is just...ugh.