That could also be seen as attempted murder. The actual time is harsh though, regardless I don't agree with the verdict so quit portraying me as a KKK member.
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Verdict reached in George Zimmerman case - Not Guilty
- Thread starter Zep
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That could also be seen as attempted murder. The actual time is harsh though, regardless I don't agree with the verdict so quit portraying me as a KKK member.
Again, he didn't say that Martin being there was suspicious, he said that Martin was acting suspicious. Also, none of what you said would explain why he thought that Martin was on drugs.
So again, in Zimmermans eyes, what do you think makes martins action of walking suspicious and look like he's on drugs.
If it's easy to tell based on movement, Zimmerman must have based his opinion on something else but movement, seeing as Martin wasn't on drugs.
Clockwork5
Member
conflicting testimony alone could justify a not guilty verdict.
You get followed by a strange ununiformed man at night in an unmarked vehicle. Suddenly he gets out of his car and starts chasing you. He doesn't tell you who he is or what his authority he has, you just know that you are being chased and cornered by a stranger in the dark. At some point he reaches for his pocket for what may be a gun or maybe he already has a gun drawn on you. Not knowing who this man is and fearing for your life what are your options? In this situation it was a vigilante neighborhood watchman, but it could have been a serial killer. Do you not have a right to fight for your life? How do you win in this situation?
Devolution
Member
God learn to read people's minds.
Metallix87
Member
Seeing as I'm not 100% sure what Trayvon was doing or how he was walking, it's difficult to say for sure. All I'm saying is branding him a racist without evidence is bizarre.
Jest Chillin
Member
Not when neither witness saw the point of contention, which is the moment the shot was fired. Add to that the evidence of Zimmerman's various accounts of that night having major inconsistencies and it should be more than enough for Manslaughter.
CrushDance
Banned
Why does it matter? It's just internet stuff.
Kind of like when there was a website dedicated to pointing out racist garbage on the net and it got shut down within a day. So no, it doesn't matter who that person is and where they're from.
Unless threatening and attacking white people is a problem, whereas the immense amount of racism towards blacks on the internet is not. Because it seems that GAF and everywhere on the net is quick to talk about freedom of speech and "it's just racist people, calm down" until it's turned on white people.
That's what I'm trying to say. It's a demonstration of inefficient and poor quality judiciary system. It's not a case of racial prejudices that people have been pointing out.
FreedomFighter
Member
The mental gymnastics you're displaying are enough to make Gabby Douglas jealous. I think you're being deliberately obtuse, just refusing to even allow the possibility that this was racially motivated, despite all the evidence suggesting so.
Racial prejudice is rampant in the criminal justice system as a whole, not just the judiciary. This fact is indisputable.
Portugeezer
Member
His profile says baltimore http://twitter.com/Khatholitics/status/355339071092031489
99% of these tweets are all bullshit, but people get arrested for what they say online these days.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Can't believe the guy didn't even get manslaughter. Some fucked up laws you guys have. Thats what happens when you let people like this carry around a deadly weapon and encourage them to use them in "self defense" The idea that you can legally end a fist fight by shooting someone dead is all kinds of fucked up.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Yet juries did not believe beyond a reasonable doubt. As i said before i dont think they ruled gz was innocent they ruled that there was reasonable doubt whether it was manslaughter or not
Except in this case it was already established that Zimnerman engaged Trayvon, after Trayvon made attempts to flee. After losing handle of the situation he created he admits shooting Trayvon point blank.
Florida law allows you to claim self defense in this scenario if you respond by saying you have reasonable fear for your life.
Is this the case everywhere, in all law?
Martin was walking like kids his age normally walk.
He probably was walking slowly due to being on his phone (on a headset) and because it was raining and their had been break ins GZ perceived this as strange. Also he kind of was on drugs technically if you class weed as a drug.
My personal opinion based on watching the trial and wild speculation. GZ genuinely thought dude was up to no good got out his car to look for him, TM jumped out on him to beat him up probably because that vile girl told him he was a rapist GZ got beat down and shot him in defence.
eBay Huckster
Member
given what i've seen of the american criminal justice system - especially courts south of the mason-dixon - i'm not sure why you're differentiating here
He isn't a racist - at least not in your definition. He was just racially profiling. Which is fucked up, sure, but its more common than people ever seem to want to admit.
Still has the whole scare the shit out of people thing going for him though.
Metallix87
Member
Implying a lot, aren't you?
1.) We don't know for sure that Zimmerman cornered him.
2.) We don't know for sure that he reached for his pocket or had a gun drawn prior to the physical altercation.
See that's the problem with people, they don't even bother to learn to read a mind.
Jest Chillin
Member
That's because the case wasn't about whether or not he intended to kill.
Devolution
Member
why is there so much talk about Trayvon? who pushed a cop and had a RO filed against him?
Clockwork5
Member
But the prosecution was not proving that zimmerman shot trayvon. They were required to prove that zimmerman had no fear of great bodily harm. A witness testifying that he saw zimmerman on the ground getting punched supported by the physical injuries present on zimmermans face and head in addition to the lead detective testifying that trayvons father originally stated it was not his son calling for help in the 911 call and the lack of evidence presented by the prosecution that zimmerman did not fear for his life is more than enough to provide a reasonable doubt. The jury had no other choice.
We're trying to figure out what Trayvon could've done differently.
This is partly his fault after all.
But Trayvon is black. I think that's original sin or something.
The jury never heard about any of this, right? I'd be curious to hear their thoughts about the case once they're made aware.
I said maybe he had his gun drawn, and from Zimmerman's own words we know that he reached for his pocket.
And aren't you assuming a lot by what you've said about Trayvon's actions? Everything I've said is completely plausible if not the most likely scenario and yet even in this situation you think it would be somehow partially Trayvon's fault. Jesus.
FreedomFighter
Member
It's pretty obvious that Trayvon Martin's life was considered less valuable to society at large because he was black.
If this had been a white kid with the same evidence, Zimmerman would be going to jail for murder 2. All those conservative gun nuts would be screaming for Zimmerman's head because they picture their own kids getting killed by some wanna-be vigilante.
Then again, if Martin had been white, Zimmerman wouldn't have started chasing him in the first place.
If this had been a white kid with the same evidence, Zimmerman would be going to jail for murder 2. All those conservative gun nuts would be screaming for Zimmerman's head because they picture their own kids getting killed by some wanna-be vigilante.
Then again, if Martin had been white, Zimmerman wouldn't have started chasing him in the first place.
Dude, if this had been a white kid, they would've tried to actually identify the body.
CrushDance
Banned
Metallix87
Member
Not necessarily. Stating that I would've tried to talk it out when asked by Zimmerman what I was doing out there doesn't seem to be assuming much.
I must be wasting my time, though. Everyone has made up their minds, and it's pointless for me to keep arguing the point. I suppose speculating about what could've happened is basically meaningless anyway, since what happened happened, and there's no taking it back. Trayvon's dead, the prosecutor botched the case, and Zimmerman is free.
You would have tried to talk it out even if the guy pulled a gun on you and looked like he was about to shoot? That may not be how it happened, but you weren't there. How can you say with such certainty it was partially his fault. You are assuming--you are just blind to it or in denial.
Jest Chillin
Member
If you're going to play it from the logic standpoint then conflicting witness statements cancel each other out. Then you have to take into account that in the interrogation video, Zimmerman himself said the voice didn't sound like him. There's a lack of evidence, sure.. but that's what happens when one of the two best witnesses is dead.
At the end of the day, neither side presented great evidence. The defense simply didn't have to deal with the burden. It is, without a doubt in my mind, a flawed system where Self Defense is concerned.
FreedomFighter
Member
Not only that, but it wouldn't have taken 44 days and national outrage before Zimmerman was actually arrested.
Metallix87
Member
The same holds true for you. How do you know he had a gun pulled? How do you know Zimmerman didn't just ask what he was doing out there before getting attacked? You are assuming, you are just blind to it or in denial.
No one knows for sure what happened, the prosecution did a lousy job and made poor choices, and Zimmerman got away with manslaughter.
There was no evidence that he was on drugs at the time of the altercation. It was trace amounts of marijuana that were found from the autopsy.
Tim the Wiz
Banned
Exactly. The scary thing is knowing that in Martin's shoes, I'd have done exactly the same thing, and gotten killed too.
I didn't say he had a gun pulled, I said maybe he had a gun pulled. Can you not see the difference? And regardless, even if I were being hypocritical, it wouldn't absolve you of the point I was making. You weren't there, so it's wrong for you to say with certainty that Trayvon was partially at fault for his death. You can't know that.
It doesn't matter what pretensions you have about the legality of following someone in your neighborhood. The truth of the matter is that it's not illegal. This isn't debateable.
Trayvon saw an undersized, 5'7 Zimmerman, and thought he could attack him to within an inch of his life. Nobody would give the benefit of the doubt to an attacker that he may not pummel you to death. Zimmerman had to protect his life the best he could. This was the only outcome in this situation.
Solid verdict.
Trayvon saw an undersized, 5'7 Zimmerman, and thought he could attack him to within an inch of his life. Nobody would give the benefit of the doubt to an attacker that he may not pummel you to death. Zimmerman had to protect his life the best he could. This was the only outcome in this situation.
Solid verdict.
CrushDance
Banned
We all pay for our actions one day or another. America has failed time and time again to do the right thing when it's been afforded the chance to do so. And I'm not even talking about this case. Whether Zimmerman is guilty or not, I honestly don't care. It's over. This case is not even a milestone in any way at all.
It is merely a symptom of the diseases of supremacy that infects American and through extension of it's political and social projection, the entire world. This kid was dangerous because he was black. That is why this case is about race. Who cares what Zimmerman is? Even other blacks find it easy to kill fellow blacks. Why? Because the life of a black person is worth far less then that of a white. You're uglier, dumber, lazier, etc. There is nothing positive or good about being black that society portrays.
If that wasn't the case, the entire nation wouldn't have been so quick to label him a thug or go through his entire history for any blemishes(That most teenagers have) to try and say "Well, just look how bad he was". *nudge, nudge*, *wink, wink*.
Hate only feeds further hate though. So who knows where this will all end up? You have white people getting lite aflame and hacked to death in South Africa. Why? Did they do anything? Nope. But the echo's of history haven't been lost. It's a damned shame how terrible human beings are capable of being.
I'd say I sympathize. That I understand revenge. And so I will. I do. It's a never-ending cycle that makes complete sense if you stop to think about it. Hurt innocents and others will rise to be "hero's" of vengeance.
And to think, this could all stop if people were honest. If people actually viewed one another as human beings.
It is merely a symptom of the diseases of supremacy that infects American and through extension of it's political and social projection, the entire world. This kid was dangerous because he was black. That is why this case is about race. Who cares what Zimmerman is? Even other blacks find it easy to kill fellow blacks. Why? Because the life of a black person is worth far less then that of a white. You're uglier, dumber, lazier, etc. There is nothing positive or good about being black that society portrays.
If that wasn't the case, the entire nation wouldn't have been so quick to label him a thug or go through his entire history for any blemishes(That most teenagers have) to try and say "Well, just look how bad he was". *nudge, nudge*, *wink, wink*.
Hate only feeds further hate though. So who knows where this will all end up? You have white people getting lite aflame and hacked to death in South Africa. Why? Did they do anything? Nope. But the echo's of history haven't been lost. It's a damned shame how terrible human beings are capable of being.
I'd say I sympathize. That I understand revenge. And so I will. I do. It's a never-ending cycle that makes complete sense if you stop to think about it. Hurt innocents and others will rise to be "hero's" of vengeance.
And to think, this could all stop if people were honest. If people actually viewed one another as human beings.
dat bloodlust
You're still looking at the event with hindsight, in the situation of you being followed in the dark by someone you don't know, in an unmarked car and then on foot you would be silly to try and talk to them. In that situation, you wouldn't know Zimmerman was a vigilante thug who could maybe be reasoned with. What you know is that he's following you, has been for a while, you're alone and there's no help or witnesses nearby. Realistically you're going to be scared and run or defend yourself when he comes shouting at you.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Anybody tryin to act like the Florida law isn't ridiculously flawed and failed the Martin family today is kidding themselves. And I say this a proud native. Everything from the statutes to the shitty prosecution itself.
The premise that you can have a case where a possible homicide needs to be determined and have it end on such rediculous technicality is a colossal failure of citizens rights. A case where there is more evidence that says the killer instigated the altercation and was more aggressive was swayed in his favor and basically thrown out with absolutely no liability to the killer. Why? Because the only other eye witness was gunned down. If the shot didn't kill TM, and he shows up in court with an entirely different story, one that is just a unprovable/unrefutable as GZ, then what? This is what the Zimmerman apologists need to understand. Not that they care.
Regardless of the absolute truth of this case, a insanely dangerous legal precedent was set today. You can not just get away with murder if you eliminate the other lone witness, you can walk completely Scott free.
The premise that you can have a case where a possible homicide needs to be determined and have it end on such rediculous technicality is a colossal failure of citizens rights. A case where there is more evidence that says the killer instigated the altercation and was more aggressive was swayed in his favor and basically thrown out with absolutely no liability to the killer. Why? Because the only other eye witness was gunned down. If the shot didn't kill TM, and he shows up in court with an entirely different story, one that is just a unprovable/unrefutable as GZ, then what? This is what the Zimmerman apologists need to understand. Not that they care.
Regardless of the absolute truth of this case, a insanely dangerous legal precedent was set today. You can not just get away with murder if you eliminate the other lone witness, you can walk completely Scott free.
I don't know where you crazy ass people are drawing this crazy ass conclusion from but the verdict does t represent any if what your saying. GZ was never proven innocent, he just remained innocent because he couldn't be proved guilty.
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