Man-is-Obsolete
Member
So then it's murder and not self defense because of how he came into possession of the gun?
Law hurts my head.
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Verdict reached in George Zimmerman case - Not Guilty
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So then it's murder and not self defense because of how he came into possession of the gun?
Law hurts my head.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Not surprised with the case the prosecution trotted out. Glad that it was at least brought to trial, the attention the case received will hopefully prevent further tragedies like this in the future. Still maintain that it was ridiculous how the case was handled by the police from the start, had they been more diligent the prosecution may have been more coherent. And it's absurd that so many people rallied behind vilifying Treyvon, as if he went out of his way seeking to be murdered.
Honestly too exhausted by this to be upset at this point.
Honestly too exhausted by this to be upset at this point.
Yep, expected this a week ago. Prosecution definitely sucked, but it's hard to disprove that self defense claim. GZ was ultimately guilty of confronting and getting overpowered by a 17-year-old kid, he's a wretched pathetic excuse of a person and if there is truly any justice in this world, he will get what's coming to him in time.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I like him more and more every day
Those are probably some of the more precise and truthful responses I've heard.
The media made this into a spectacle.
breakfuss
Member
Don't be daft.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
There is no justice in this world. Bad things happen to good people everyday.
like who?
if you're gonna make claims back it up.
I don't like this false equivalency bs
That's their job. :/
Also to polarize people into left/right, liberal/conservative, Dem/Repub camps whenever they can.
sadly, realistically, you're totally right. Really feel for his parents/family right now.
Can Crusher
Banned
Zimmerman does racial profile, stalks and then approaches in what surely must have been an aggressive way. He does opposite of what he's told to do, and is carrying a handgun.
Kid clocks him in self defense, brakes his nose and head hits the canvas. Guy draws not as legitimate self defense, but self defense based on the premature conclusion that the kid was in the wrong from the very beginning. Shoots a kid, kills him.
Obviously, it's a complex situation. It's not like George is guilty of premeditated murder or anything. However he's guilty of racial profiling and starting a violent situation in which he ends up killing a kid.
Is it self defense? Stretching the limits there, even according to stand your ground laws. Stand your ground laws implies you are the one approached, and not the culprit in creating a violent situation.
Neighbor says the dude walked up calm. Basically that means that at the time, George actually thought he had caught a kid who was in the wrong. This guy lit the match, threw it at gasoline and now people say he ain't guilty of starting a fire.
It's bananas. Absolutely ridiculous. Should be doing anywhere between 15 to 20, for being the sole responsible for loss of life. Unfortunately it seems, the judicial system in the United States keeps having the habit of choosing white over black.
Kid clocks him in self defense, brakes his nose and head hits the canvas. Guy draws not as legitimate self defense, but self defense based on the premature conclusion that the kid was in the wrong from the very beginning. Shoots a kid, kills him.
Obviously, it's a complex situation. It's not like George is guilty of premeditated murder or anything. However he's guilty of racial profiling and starting a violent situation in which he ends up killing a kid.
Is it self defense? Stretching the limits there, even according to stand your ground laws. Stand your ground laws implies you are the one approached, and not the culprit in creating a violent situation.
Neighbor says the dude walked up calm. Basically that means that at the time, George actually thought he had caught a kid who was in the wrong. This guy lit the match, threw it at gasoline and now people say he ain't guilty of starting a fire.
It's bananas. Absolutely ridiculous. Should be doing anywhere between 15 to 20, for being the sole responsible for loss of life. Unfortunately it seems, the judicial system in the United States keeps having the habit of choosing white over black.
This time is more a profit making opportunity then anything else.
What? A cop in-his-own-head was carrying a gun and following a kid who had gone to the store to get candy and an ice tea. That kid is dead.
The message it sends to me is if you are carrying a gun you can play cop and if everything turns to shit because you are a fucking idiot you can use that gun to get yourself out of trouble. This is why we need gun control in this country. George Zimmerman is a self described softie with a cop fetish and our laws allow him to walk around acting the part and feeling totally safe in doing it because he knows he is packing.
Stripping away all the race issues and the questions of self defense the message is pretty clear: carry a gun, do things you would never feel empowered to do without one, get in over your head, use gun, no consequences.
There are 49 states that aren't Florida. Ergo, stand your ground does not apply in most states. Also, carry a loaded gun in most large cities and you'll send yourself to jail.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
What was Zimmerman planning on doing if he caught Trayvon?
I thought this trial was based on standard self-defense not stand your ground at all.
GravityMan
Member
This. The media knew from the beginning that stirring the pot, misinforming the public, playing on their emotions and creating an outcry would lead to their ratings shooting through the roof. They saw $$$ and pounced. That is the main reason why they devoted so much coverage to this whole thing.
The media accomplished exactly what they wanted. Screw them.
Stand your ground was not used in the defense of this case, this was a case of self defense.
And sure, Plaxico Burress gets 2 years for shooting his own leg because NYC has laws that make sense. Most of the country doesn't have these laws and the NRA and gun-groups are pushing to strip away as much regulation that stands between you and taking your gun wherever you want to go, including the DC and Chicago gun control laws.. and now we have laws saying these one-bullet-barneys can carry in schools to protect kids.
Hopefully they'll ruin him financially in the civil suit.
There is no such thing as standard self-defense, each state determines where they want to set boundaries. So obviously not.
Hmm? Oh, I thought that was the thing you were worried about.
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You really think gun laws are going to fix the issues that Chicago has?
Massive amounts of people will still be poor and yet live close to those that are not.
I'm not trying to bait anything here. I understand emotions are high and I am genuinely trying to understand the point of contention here.
Is it the fact that people think it's okay to pre-emptively attack someone that they believe is follow them? Do people not believe that Trayvon preemptively attacked Zimmerman?
Or is it the fact that people don't believe lethal force should have been used based on Zimmerman's injuries? Do you not not believe that Zimmerman truly feared for his life based on his injuries?
Again - I'm just asking to better understand that side of the story. I want to have a better picture of this for my own sake.
Is it the fact that people think it's okay to pre-emptively attack someone that they believe is follow them? Do people not believe that Trayvon preemptively attacked Zimmerman?
Or is it the fact that people don't believe lethal force should have been used based on Zimmerman's injuries? Do you not not believe that Zimmerman truly feared for his life based on his injuries?
Again - I'm just asking to better understand that side of the story. I want to have a better picture of this for my own sake.
plantedunicorn
Member
Aside from Trayvon losing his life for no reason, the worst thing to come out of this is how he was portrayed and made to look like a criminal. He was just a 17 year old kid and he was dragged through the mud in order to justify Zimmerman killing him. It just came off as it's okay to randomly shoot someone as long as they had some shady past.
The shitty thing about this is Zimmerman wasn't even a saint to begin with. It's just weird that narrative that is being perpetuated is that Zimmerman was defending himself. Didn't Trayvon also have the right to defend himself from someone that was following for no damn reason. It's too bad they couldn't accurately figure out who was screaming for help on the recording.
The shitty thing about this is Zimmerman wasn't even a saint to begin with. It's just weird that narrative that is being perpetuated is that Zimmerman was defending himself. Didn't Trayvon also have the right to defend himself from someone that was following for no damn reason. It's too bad they couldn't accurately figure out who was screaming for help on the recording.
Hopefully the Feds will go after him on civil rights charges for the profiling and subsequent death.
They did it in the 60s and with Rodney King. I see no reason they shouldn't pursue it now.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
I think the outrage comes from taking it further back than just the actual physical confrontation. Did Martin strike first? Possibly, but given the circumstances most believe it to be a reasonable response to being followed/pursued relentlessly. Much like the jury seems to agree that Zimmerman had a right to defend himself, others believe Trayvon had a right to do more than just keep running. Looking back, however, is where the bad precedent is set. Zimmerman was going above and beyond his responsibilities as a watchman and, being armed, seemed clearly emboldened to do so.
We can't be sure, but I'm guessing GZ had delusions of grandeur as he escorted TM into a police station.
Did GZ have handcuffs or any way of detaining TM? If not, then what could he have hoped by getting out of the car and confronting TM?
It's obvious that GZ acted like an stupidly and aggressively. The responsibility for what happened lies purely with him.
How many kids in America have DUIs, MIPs, other misdemeanors, and tons of pictures of themselves flicking off the camera, pretending to grab their friends' crotches, or other immature, silly things?
Nobody calls them thugs. But the smear campaign against TM to rationalize what GZ did (following, confronting, shooting...all for nothing) was probably the most disgusting thing in this whole affair.
gutter_trash
Banned
screw vacationing in Florida or in the South for that matter,
I'm gonna take my business elsewhere,
some parts of the US still live by 19th Century values where anyone can abort someone's life because the right of the self defense with a firearm trumps common sense, justice, honor and morality.
HOW CAN YOU CLAIM SELF DEFENSE WHEN YOU WERE THE INSTIGATOR? THE FIRE STARTER? THE TROUBLE MAKER? THE SICK STALKER IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT WITHOUT A BADGE?
I'm gonna take my business elsewhere,
some parts of the US still live by 19th Century values where anyone can abort someone's life because the right of the self defense with a firearm trumps common sense, justice, honor and morality.
HOW CAN YOU CLAIM SELF DEFENSE WHEN YOU WERE THE INSTIGATOR? THE FIRE STARTER? THE TROUBLE MAKER? THE SICK STALKER IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT WITHOUT A BADGE?
I think it's more the fact that a kid who had every right to be where he was and had gone to the store to get candy and an iced tea is dead because some asshole decided to play 80s action star in his neighborhood and do the cops job for them.
If George Zimmerman weren't a human piece of shit who couldn't mind his own business Trayvon Martin would have gone home, eaten a bag of skittles and kept talking to his friend on the phone. He would have woken up the next day, graduated high school, maybe go to college, get a job, get married, have kids. Had a fucking life.
Instead he is dead.
We will never know what actually happened that night. We will never know more than 1 side of the story because the other side is dead.
The one thing we do know is that if George Zimmerman had just gotten in his truck and gone to Target instead of playing cop none of this would have happened.
What I'm saying is, each outlet has its own agenda. CNN & MSNBC lean left, while Fox leans right. And even then many organizations are careless in their reporting, in the past the DrudgeReport has ran numerous stories about how much Obama spends on his trips across the globe. Turns out many are an exaggerated number. One notable incident w/ the BBC is during a report on the United Nations Security Counsel (UNSC) they threw up the logo for Halo's UNSC. It is just a fluke but it shows a disturbing lack of fact checking. Or w/ the reporting on the Boston Bomber, CNN lied claiming they arrested a "dark male". Or recently w/ the medias reporting over that plane crash in cali, the media, espcially fox in this case went orgasmic over two people being killed, ignoring that fact that Chicago has an average murder rate of 15.65 per 100,000. Why the hell isn't that news? That rate is higher then US death toll in Afghan.
All speculation. Maybe try to detain him but just as likely to ask him who he was and what he's doing there. Speaking as a former 17 year old I've had that happen to me more than once, got chased too, although I was usually up to no good so it was justified in my case.
Raptor2155
Member
I understand your point, but those humanistic ideals were just as perverted when they were written ( slavery, manifest destiny, women's rights)
bengraven
Member
Around the same time Trayvon was killed, a man was arrested for killing a black man on his property. When they asked him why, he was dumbfounded. He couldn't believe he was being arrested.
"He was just a nigger!" the man said. This was in Florida, mind you.
I thought you were talking about a national standard. I got you mixed up with stooge. Sorry.
Guess I'm more tired than I thought.
The same reason they spent weeks televising a simple trial at all hours of the day. A spectacle that can increase viewership. I expect the reports to reflect the trial coverage. Nationally, people tune into coverage of freak accidents like plane crashes or terrorist/race related events. Those can either affect them or are unique spectacles that present well to video playback. Chicago's murder rate is Chicago's problem and a constant occurrence that doesn't lend itself to video well.
CNN do not lean left. MSNBC do not hire bigots. Careless yes, hiring bigots to say hateful things on air, no. So it's false equivalency.
.la1n
Member
Agreed. I'd hate to think what would happen to me in court if they simply dragged everything I did as a teenager into it. A life was lost here and it didn't have to be. It's pathetic.
it doesn't matter what we think. all that matters is that GZ feared for his life
You can't prove it either way. So without proof how do you put a guy away?
It took a few weeks before GZ was arrested, though, if I recall correctly. I don't know the details for the delay regarding the investigation of the shooting incident, though.
vas_a_morir
Banned
People on Twitter are claiming Obama filed Federal charges against Zimmerman. What the fuck are they talking about?
What people won't realize is that this is apparently par for the course in self-defense/SYG cases in Florida. Probable cause and all that shit. Don't know if it is true or not, but there was a guy on CNN who is a prosecutor in FL who said there was a case where a black guy killed 3 white guys and claimed SYG, and he wasn't arrested for MONTHS.
What people won't realize is that this is apparently par for the course in self-defense/SYG cases in Florida. Probable cause and all that shit. Don't know if it is true or not, but there was a guy on CNN who is a prosecutor in FL who said there was a case where a black guy killed 3 white guys and claimed SYG, and he wasn't arrested for MONTHS.
psrock
Member
In a fight he could have walked away from. His actions doesn't seem like someone who was scared at anytime.
breakfuss
Member
Feared for his life after he followed Trayvon? Doesn't make sense, but that's to be expected when we're ignoring the blatantly obvious fact that all Black men are presumed to be up to noooooo gud. If this wasn't such a somber moment, I'd be laughing my ass off.
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