joeygreco1985
Member
To be fair they're just doing their jobs. They managed to do it much better than the prosecution
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Verdict reached in George Zimmerman case - Not Guilty
- Thread starter Zep
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To be fair they're just doing their jobs. They managed to do it much better than the prosecution
I think that's why you saw most legal experts when he was first charged with 2nd degree murder thought they were over charging. I think if you go back to the gaf thread where he was charged there was a lot of surprise. I think most people thought they must have something they aren't showing the public. Turns out they didn't.
paperboywriter
Member
Omg
Besides the racial makeup I think 2 had jobs in medical fields and 2 others came from families with lawyers.
gutter_trash
Banned
Florida is fucked up anyway,
my 65 year old mother in law is a Snowbird who goes to Florida in the winter.
She loves flowers so she walks around smiling looking at gardens and flowers.
Then a neighborhood watch guy comes up to her and asks what she is doing?
She looks at him stunned and says ''I'm looking at the flowers, their are beautiful''
Then he tells her that she shouldn't do that
You Floridians are sooooooooo fucked up! seriously
my 65 year old mother in law is a Snowbird who goes to Florida in the winter.
She loves flowers so she walks around smiling looking at gardens and flowers.
Then a neighborhood watch guy comes up to her and asks what she is doing?
She looks at him stunned and says ''I'm looking at the flowers, their are beautiful''
Then he tells her that she shouldn't do that
You Floridians are sooooooooo fucked up! seriously
Epsilon-delta
Banned
It is a clusterfuck which sets a bad precedent that you can carry a concealed weapons permit, follow someone to the point of provoking an altercation, shoot them dead and then claim self-defense.
This case indirectly tells you it's better to kill someone in a physical confrontation so as to have no witnesses, then to beat their ass and letting them live giving them a chance to counter your self-defense claim with their own.
I don't know how people in this forum can be ok with that and spouting justice was served, even though the moral compass of society took a nose dive in the same process.
The laws in the state of Florida are ridiculous.
AppleSmack
Banned
This seemed like a clear manslaughter case to me. I knew he would not get murder and he doesn't deserve to get murder (sorry but this simply wasn't an intentional killing), but I expected manslaughter because at the end of the day Zimmerman caused the altercation by following Martin. If he did not follow him, none of this would have happened.
Not suggesting, saying outright. I dont see why you would have the default position of assuming everyone is racist, that makes no sense. Perhaps if there were history of it for an individual, but that's not the case here. Again in fact ample evidence to the contrary, which should not be necessary but it happens to exist in this case.
theignoramus
Member
I remember pretty vividly the anger and hatred directed at Mike Vick when the dog fighting charges dropped. Vick's apologists were few in number, he was almost universally condemned.
Feels like a substantial part of the public has more empathy and compassion for a dog's life than the life of a young black male, stalked and gunned down by an instigating wannabe cop.
Feels like a substantial part of the public has more empathy and compassion for a dog's life than the life of a young black male, stalked and gunned down by an instigating wannabe cop.
vas_a_morir
Banned
They did the best job you could do in this situation. I was actually fairly impressed by the great case they put forth. I think this diminishes the expert job the defense did.
BTW, what does Robert Zimmerman Jr. do? He sounds fairly educated.
It is, depending on where you are coming from here. Murder is the name of a crime. Killing in itself is not murder unless deemed illegal, I believe.
HOWEVER, if you are instead arguing the semantics of 'innocent' vs. 'not guilty' disregard my previous statements.
paperboywriter
Member
The whole thing is just so irresponsible. And all of this just 2 weeks after the Supreme Courts ruling of the voters right act. It just confirms americas immense racial inequality and its inability to cope with racism.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Race was injected the second GZ profiled TM. Even his defense used it in the case because they argued there were robberies committed by young black males recently in the neighborhood, so GZ profiling was warranted.
All of those things were raised multiple times by the prosecution during the trial. The issue with the holster was even mentioned several times during the closing argument.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
There is evidence that Zimmerman was completely unbiased in his surveillance and call ins? May I see it?
As posted above, his defense revolved around justifying his racial profiling. Racial profiling is inherently racist.
entremet
Member
I'm not talking about the legal charges. I'm talking about the poster that mentioned that he didn't kill anyone. Legal charges are a different discussion.
vas_a_morir
Banned
He claims he has called the police on hispanics and whites in the Hannity interview. Of course, he could be lying.
It's quite sad, isn't it?
The basic premise of the situation and GZ's responsibility in creating it seems to have been lost amidst all the legal jargon and debates going on throughout the country.
The focus shifted to TM and essentially finding him guilty of...something.
So, I'm not as informed as I would like to be. Is there any concrete indication that race may have something to do with this?
I was just on Facebook, looking at statuses. 9/10 are about this case. And I came across this:
It had 14 likes, and I took a look at the people who liked it, and it was all white people that I knew.
I don't know if that means anything, I just thought it was interesting.
I was just on Facebook, looking at statuses. 9/10 are about this case. And I came across this:
It had 14 likes, and I took a look at the people who liked it, and it was all white people that I knew.
I don't know if that means anything, I just thought it was interesting.
gutter_trash
Banned
AppleSmack
Banned
I highly doubt he is completely lying. Even if you are inclined to be racist you aren't going to not call the cops because you see a white guy committing a crime and not a hispanic guy. He may have called on more hispanics, but I'm sure there are whites in there.
I keep hearing this in regard to Florida's laws. What is unique about them in this case?
Again your default position is racial and you're looking for me to disprove it. His defense revolved around the contention that Martin was on top of him beating him up and he had to defend himself.
Roger Danish
Member
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TruckDriver
Neo Member
On my facebook, I have yet to see one Black friend take this 'oh well, what are you gonna do? it's not about race!' stance on the zimmerman trial. Many of my white friends are, and their liked statuses are, surprise!, white.
It shocks me that some of my friends can't have any empathy for a dead, unarmed teenager.
All I know is that many of Black, Latino, & Minority in general friends feel less safe today.
vas_a_morir
Banned
His words, not mine. Also, the question dispatchers commonly ask is "white, black, or Hispanic."
I was just wondering the same thing. He is very well spoken, and they picked the right guy to go out there and speak for the family.
I haven't mentioned anything, but since I did post a bit in the thread on the trial I'll say this here. As I have mentioned since day one, multiple times, I predicted this would be the verdict and after viewing the trial I feel that this was absolutely the only correct verdict that could be issued given the evidence provided. I understand the frustrations that are out there, but I really hope things calm down before too long and things do not get taken to other levels as happened in Oakland for a period of time last night. I believe that any further charges brought against him will be futile attempts and will lead to a quite similar conclusion as we saw last night, and that in turn will only make things worse in terms of tensions and that sort of thing. I'm not saying that they shouldn't try to pursue other charges, just that I feel that the outcome will be the same in the end.
In the end it was a tragedy, everyone can admit and agree to that.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Pretty much they take people's word in the case of self defense. It was up to the prosecution to prove he was lying, not the defense to prove it was self defense.
There was also no appropriate charge because there is nothing that was illegal about Zimmerman following Trayvon.
In the end, the only thing the jury could look at was the confrontation, not the events leading to it. Zimmerman was not legally in the wrong by following Trayvon. Whether or not Zimmerman had reasonable fear for his life, not the context leading up to it.
Yeah, that's the thing. I have seen a lot of my white friends say that it has nothing to do with race, and yet I have no seen a single thing from a black friend say it isn't. I don't know what to believe, but that implication isn't good.
Can Crusher
Banned
Switch the color of the skin and their background, and get a different verdict.
Everybody knows that.
Everybody knows that.
It was a one-sided tragedy. One family lost their son and the other raised $350k for legal defense fees to 'win' the trial.
Talk about insult to injury.
And what state do you think that's different in? I believe this was discussed in the trial thread, and self defense needs to be excluded beyond a reasonable doubt by the prosecution almost everywhere once the defense offers any evidence in support of it. It's also unlikely that Zimmerman simply following Trayvon would be illegal anywhere.
TruckDriver
Neo Member
I don't know if the incident and trial was about race. What I do know is that people have fallen on racial lines. It's 2013, and for some reason, we still in America can't move beyond the colored line to be empathetic with our fellow Americans. Why this continues, and why people can't see an unarmed teenager and a bully who tracked him down, but rather a black teen and a white man, I don't know.
Terareflection
Member
I am getting a lot people mindlessly backing our Justice system on FB. Like there is nothing wrong with it in it's current form.
TruckDriver
Neo Member
Because this comes from people who have (probably) never had issues with our Justice system, and assume "Well, if I had an issue, the police would treat ME right because x, y, z..."
I was watching the legal experts on CNN and many of them questioned why the prosecution charged Zimmerman with second degree murder instead of with manslaughter which was the more appropriate charge. If they had done that it is a strong possibility that Zimmerman would be facing 10 to 30 years right now without the possibility of parole. The prosecution didn't even explain to the jury why Zimmerman could be found guilty of manslaughter. They just doubled-down on second degree murder which was pretty much an impossible case to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
A lot of people wonder if the prosecution just threw the case. Mark Geragos (the man who got Michael Jackson acquitted) repeatedly said on CNN that the prosecution was taking a dive because they were missing so many opportunities. Also, did you see Angela Corey (Florida State Attorney) give that press conference after they lost the trial? Why was she smiling so much? I think there is a strong possibility that the prosecution put up a dog and pony show to appear that they wanted justice for Trayvon, all the while wanting Zimmerman to not be convicted. It wouldn't look good for Angela Corey's re-election prospects in a conservative red state if she successfully convicted George Zimmerman.
Bingo.
Had the verdict been guilty, people's opinions of the justice system would largely be flipped. Mine would still be the same - incredibly flawed, sometimes gets it right, sometimes gets it wrong.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
About 5 years ago, one of my coworkers maced the shit out of a guy in a Walmart parking lot because he followed her to her car. Nothing legally happened to her and in fact, the creep was arrested. This was in Florida of all places.
According to this case, if the creep had a concealed weapons permit and pulled out a gun after getting maced and shot my coworker dead, he was in the right for self-defense.
Shit makes no sense.
How would the case be presented differently if the prosecution were to "explain to the jury why Zimmerman could be found guilty of manslaughter"? Manslaughter is a lesser included charge with murder in the second degree and the jury absolutely could have charged him that way if they felt it was justified. This conspiracy theory is nonsense.
No, that's not what this case should lead anyone to believe.
I think there are more people mindlessly attacking it. It's incredibly frustrating.
This was the right result, based on the evidence. The absolute core principle of our justice system is that it's better to let a guilty person go free, than to convict an innocent one. This is why we require the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard. People are/were emotionally invested in this case and it's taken on significant meaning for quite a few, which I understand, but the system operated exactly as its meant to.
littlebirdtoldme
Banned
you are telling me latinos are better of than blacks in america?
No, they attacked the inconsistencies. Did you watch the closing arguments? The prosecution poked a hole in every part of Zimmerman's story.
What the prosecution didn't do for the entire trial leading up to that point was take those inconsistencies and tie them together into a counter-narrative for the jury. There was never a point where the prosecution said "What Zimmerman claims to have happened isn't the truth. THIS is what happened."
In comparison, the defense had a narrative. It was bullshit. It had more holes than a block of swiss cheese, but they hammered it in at every opportunity.
Still none of this explains how he didn't even get Manslaughter. The prosecution, as incompetent as they were, had done at LEAST enough for that charge to stick.
If the jury could not convict him for murder 2 because the prosecution never disproved self defense, how could they convict for manslaughter? Self defense excuses that charge as well. If the prosecution were able to show Zimmerman did not act in self defense, or did not reasonably fear for his life, murder 2 is exactly the right charge.
Kite
Member
erm both sides are raising a ton of money off supporters, the Martin family have 2 trademarks on slogans regarding their son's name.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
Exactly correct.
To convict based on the evidence presented would have been a travesty. My only surprise in the trial was that it took a day for the jury to reach the conclusion. I thought it would take 20 minutes.
Plasticine
Member
Vick ran a criminal enterprise based on the systematic torture and destruction of animals. He wasn't simply having them fight, and then shooting them. He would string them up, drown them, electrocute them and bash their heads in. If Zimmerman did the same thing to young black men, you'd find universal condemnation for him and his actions. He would be declared a monster and one of history's worst serial killers. No rational human being would defend him. Zimmerman would be executed, instead of walking out of jail after a short prison sentence. The two cases have absolutely nothing to do with each other. There are no similarities, or grounds for comparison.
I agree with that.
I think that's the outrage though.
Lets pull the obvious racial bullshit out to the side right now... ----> Racial Bullshit
The Media was pushing for the race conflict angle since Day 1...
At the crux of the case we have a guy who decided to claim "self defense" after using a gun to end a conflict he escalated himself with an underage minor
That is what's pissing people off regarding his case. He took a bitch ass way out and the law protected him for it.
When you add the stupid racial bullshit back in...
1. How the case looks now, Its totally fucked up
2. The likelihood of this happening had Trayvon been a white child that night would have been close to 0% and the Media would definitely be playing up Zim's Hispanic origins a lot more...
3. Had Zimmerman been black, and Trayvon any color, Zim would have been charged and arrested that same night rather than people fighting to get this case on trial.
4. Zim would have been found guilty had this been a 17 year old girl that night.
Those 4 things are 4 angles that change this case severely in American courts. The mindset is made up amongst the people how a case goes so how is it possible for fair justice when the same people running the courts carry preconceived notions. Its only human to do that, but we don't have a fair system then... We should stop acting like it..
This case has reestablished certain things to me:
- The media is full of bullshit trying to ward the public's mind to fit the agenda. Stay away from any opinionated programming and "talk shows" Get the baseline facts people!! Make up your own mind!!
- There is a stigma amongst being black in America. You must be aware regarding certain behaviors and situations that may arise. You should always act cordial and stay 1 step ahead of the game
- The American Justice system has a fatal flaw in procedure regarding how they are based off the evidence game. If you want to beat any charge... All you have to do is destroy any possible evidence linking your involvement.
Hearts & Prayers to the Martin Family. End all be all the child is still dead, and a family has open wounds.
Pretty sure that was so people didn't make money off of TM. People were selling shirts with his face and name.
YouEnjoyMySelf
Banned
The way the US media and the kids family have tried to steer the story their way is truly disgusting. Can't wait for my #Treyvon hoodie.
Good to see he's not getting locked up.
Good to see he's not getting locked up.
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