White people can't experience racism?

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Opiate said:
Okay, that's possible. What was the point? That positions of power have, historically, hugely overrepresented white people? That is absolutely true. I just don't think the modern supreme court is a very good way to evidence that.

If it's something else, let me know.
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yea, this. I'm not saying it's a bad representation ethnically, just that at it's most diverse, it's still a white male driven society at this point. Like I said in the previous page, it's changing, but it'll take many more years.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
It's more justifiable considering the many fucked up things white people have done.
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No. No it is fucking not. This is unacceptable. Fucking period. "I hate X people" is never an acceptable phrase to utter and it's especially abhorrent when people who profess to be about equality and hold an education about a 4th grade level nod at the "wisdom" of it all.
 
Of course it can exist, people are just thinking about NA/EU, go to an african, middle eastern, or asian country and I'm sure racism against white people will exist there.

Its completely fucked up that people are indifferent to this just because of the privelaged whites mentality.
 
WanderingWind said:
No. No it is fucking not. This is unacceptable. Fucking period. "I hate X people" is never an acceptable phrase to utter and it's especially abhorrent when people who profess to be about equality and hold an education about a 4th grade level nod at the "wisdom" of it all.
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If you don't understand how people of color can more justifiably have a negative opinion of white people because white people have hated them and pulled bullshit on them for no good reason, then we're not able to have the same conversation.

Erasing the context of what causes "white racism" is pretty shitty. You have to respect the history of oppressed people.
 
Tinkleberry said:
yea, this. I'm not saying it's a bad representation ethnically, just that at it's most diverse, it's still a white male driven society at this point. Like I said in the previous page, it's changing, but it'll take many more years.
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I definitely agree that white men enjoy enormous privilege and always have since the foundation of the US, no question about that. I'm just not sure I'd pick a picture of the current supreme court to prove it! It's basically one more hispanic woman away from being a very accurate representation of the US.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
If you don't understand how people of color can more justifiably have a negative opinion of white people because white people have hated them and pulled bullshit on them for no good reason, then we're not able to have the same conversation.

Erasing the context of what causes "white racism" is pretty shitty. You have to respect the history of oppressed people.
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I don't have to respect any mentality that is okay with hatred toward an entire people. And I don't have to respect anybody who thinks that's okay or somehow justified. People have been justifying their hatred for all kinds of shitty reasons that make sense to them. No thanks. Spread that bullshit elsewhere.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
If you don't understand how people of color can more justifiably have a negative opinion of white people because white people have hated them and pulled bullshit on them for no good reason, then we're not able to have the same conversation.
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If you can justify people of color hating white people for shit their grandparents did, then I think I know who the racist is.

Unless the white person in question is actively being racist/prejudice/etc. then there is no reason to have a negative opinion of anyone based on the color of their skin.
 
"I didn't personally do anything" and "that's just as hateful" as responses to having to hear people say "man white people have really done some fucked up things to my people" are frustrating and miss the point. If that's the worst you have to deal with, consider yourself lucky and let it go.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
"I didn't personally do anything" and "that's just as hateful" as responses to having to hear people say "man white people have really done some fucked up things to my people" are frustrating and miss the point. If that's the worst you have to deal with, consider yourself lucky and let it go.
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So I deserve to be hated because of my skin color? Hate my grandfather, not me.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
If you don't understand how people of color can more justifiably have a negative opinion of white people because white people have hated them and pulled bullshit on them for no good reason, then we're not able to have the same conversation.

Erasing the context of what causes "white racism" is pretty shitty. You have to respect the history of oppressed people.
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What you are doing is rationalizing hate for an entire group of people because of the color of their skin. This is by definition rationalizing racism. I understand why people do this, but it is not justified.
 
Spend some time incarcerated. Doesn't matter what color your skin is, you WILL experience racism. Everything from assumptions of your culinary tastes, to constantly being ascribed a racial name, to almost forcibly being grouped with others of your pigmentation.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
"I didn't personally do anything" and "that's just as hateful" as responses to having to hear people say "man white people have really done some fucked up things to my people" are frustrating and miss the point. If that's the worst you have to deal with, consider yourself lucky and let it go.
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Yeah, that's not what was said. Nice try. Pretty simple chain of events. You think it's justifiable to say "I hate X people." That's nowhere near the fucking same as "I hate what some people have done to black people." Not even in the same universe.

You're not an idiot, but you got over zealous. Just fucking stop.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
If you don't understand how people of color can more justifiably have a negative opinion of white people because white people have hated them and pulled bullshit on them for no good reason, then we're not able to have the same conversation.

Erasing the context of what causes "white racism" is pretty shitty. You have to respect the history of oppressed people.
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So because whites were racists in the past that means people are allowed to hate all whites regardless of whether or not an individual white has ever done such a thing? Your attempt to show why irrational hate against a group of people is acceptable is proving what OP was asking about.
 
happypup said:
What you are doing is rationalizing hate for an entire group of people because of the color of their skin. This is by definition rationalizing racism. I understand why people do this, but it is not justified.
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It's not completely justified, but I can understand the context of why a person would say that.

stutte said:
So I deserve to be hated because of my skin color? Hate my grandfather, not me.
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Do you seriously think slavery and segregation are the only things white people have done to black people?
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Erasing the context of what causes "white racism" is pretty shitty. You have to respect the history of oppressed people.
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History of oppressed people, like Irish and Jews? All 'white' based on US classification.

Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
"I didn't personally do anything" and "that's just as hateful" as responses to having to hear people say "man white people have really done some fucked up things to my people" are frustrating and miss the point. If that's the worst you have to deal with, consider yourself lucky and let it go.
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Yeah, I fucking hate Jews for the way the British enslaved Africans and imported them to the America. As for the Russians, those guys are right cunts for the way there is institutionalised racism in America. As for the Turkish, man, I hate them for what some completely unrelated dude did to Trayvon Martin.

You sir, are a Grade A idiot.
 
stutte said "blame my grandfather, not me," which could be seen as "racism existed a long time ago," which is why Liu Kang responded with a question about slavery and segregation. he wasn't refuting the point that someone shouldn't be blamed for the actions of others.

Someone can tacitly support racism without outwardly perpetuating it or wanting to do so.

Something being "understandable," does not mean it is acceptable. Saying something is understandable is not the same as saying it'd okay.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Do you seriously think slavery and segregation are the only things white people have done to black people?
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So, maybe I'm misunderstanding you but is your position more or less that because of the experience of racism, it is understandable that an individual black person might feel resentful towards or even hateful towards white people, even you wouldn't necessarily condone those hateful feelings?
 
Ta-nehisi Coates is really good at accessible race discussion, and his comments section is usually top-notch too: http://www.theatlantic.com/ta-nehisi-coates/

WanderingWind said:
What tactic is he going to try next, folks?

I can't believe people like you exist in 2013. You need to go on some serious fucking soul searching.
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You're not even willing to have the beginning of a conversation about this. You won't even let people get out "hey, some real fucked up shit has happened, and it's skewed me in bad ways" before you're ready to tell them they're wrong.

Mumei said:
So, maybe I'm misunderstanding you but is your position more or less that because of the experience of racism, it is understandable that an individual black person might feel resentful towards or even hateful towards white people, even you wouldn't necessarily condone those hateful feelings?
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Yep. It doesn't make the feelings or expressions right, but they have a context that is more understandable than white people disliking other races just because.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
You're not even willing to have the beginning of a conversation about this. You won't even let people get out "hey, some real fucked up shit has happened, and it's skewed me in bad ways" before you're ready to tell them they're wrong.
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I said no such thing. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point. I'm not willing to entertain extremely racist notions from anybody. Mumei gave you an out. Take it.
 
White people cannot experience racism, that is correct.

Some (dumb) commentators even invoke the term 'cracker'--as if that term is even SLIGHTLY comparable to the n-word. Not fuckin close.

Whites can feel out of place, sure. Everyone can in the right context.

But I already can tell that this thread had plenty of retarded comments in it, with white people playing the victim card, trying to turn a blind eye to the institution of racism that still very much exists.
 
WanderingWind said:
I said no such thing. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point. I'm not willing to entertain extremely racist notions from anybody. Mumei gave you an out. Take it.
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I'm not sure I gave him an out; I actually thought that was his position and that because of the way the conversation was going he hadn't really explained it clearly.

But really, everyone could stand trying having a discussion where you at least give the other person a chance instead of assuming moral turpitude and bad faith from limited information.
 
perryfarrell said:
White people cannot experience racism, that is correct.

Some (dumb) commentators even invoke the term 'cracker'--as if that term is even SLIGHTLY comparable to the n-word. Not fuckin close.

Whites can feel out of place, sure. Everyone can in the right context.

But I already can tell that this thread had plenty of retarded comments in it, with white people playing the victim card, trying to turn a blind eye to the institution of racism that still very much exists.
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1. Are you condoning racist behavior saying that people can have hate crimes against a white and it won't be racism because "racism against whites doesn't exist"

2. Are you only taking into account US and Europe, because it sounds incredibly naive to say it doesn't exist in some parts of the world.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
You won't even let people get out "hey, some real fucked up shit has happened, and it's skewed me in bad ways" before you're ready to tell them they're wrong.
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Because this is an exact viewpoint used to justify racism.

People can look at how black culture is entwined with criminal culture, and use that to justify their racist views against all blacks. Seeing blacks do fucked up things in the news and real life skews them into hold racist views. Would you tell these folks they're wrong?
 
Opiate said:
I definitely agree that white men enjoy enormous privilege and always have since the foundation of the US, no question about that. I'm just not sure I'd pick a picture of the current supreme court to prove it! It's basically one more hispanic woman away from being a very accurate representation of the US.
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I think it's a perfect way of illustrating the privilege white citizens enjoy if you look at it from a different perspective. Even with the Supreme Court justices closely representing the racial breakdown in the United States, it's apparent just how many more individuals there are in this country that better serve the white population. That is the best case scenario! I can't imagine such a breakdown would easily be replicated if we start dissecting every position of power in the country. You can argue that it is logical that such division of power should work that way under democratic terms, but is it right that someone is automatically blocked from entitlements and opportunities just because they had the misfortune of being born a minority? I'd suspect many would say of course not, yet that picture captures the uphill battle minorities in this country have to face if they hope to get themselves a seat with the powers that be. And even if they get there, they have to hope the white majority can sympathize with their efforts to help the minority population in the country.
 
Mumei said:
I'm not sure I gave him an out; I actually thought that was his position and that because of the way the conversation was going he hadn't really explained it clearly.

But really, everyone could stand trying having a discussion where you at least give the other person a chance instead of assuming moral turpitude and bad faith from limited information.
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There is no other discussion to be had when somebody says they're okay with hatred toward an entire people and then they try to further justify that with the precise same "logic" people have used for centuries to justify why their hatred is "correct." It's disgusting from any angle and that's based on actual words being said, not some nebulous "assumption."
 
SPE said:
Because this is an exact viewpoint used to justify racism.

People can look at how black culture is entwined with criminal culture, and use that to justify their racist views against all blacks. Seeing blacks do fucked up things in the news and real life skews them into hold racist views. Would you tell these folks they're wrong?
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Yep, because they're not understanding historical context. Slavery turned into poverty and segregation which turned into criminality just to get by and feel acceptance/success of any sort.

It's frustrating seeing people want to reduce violent racial situations by getting rid of guns or censoring our media when the real problem starts at giving oppressed people an opportunity. It wouldn't solve any problems in our lifetime, but we have to start somewhere.

"I hate white people" is a wrong thing for anyone to say. But if my family has been living in poverty because of things white people did to them generations ago, and if we can't get out of poverty because of things white people are doing now, I can understand how they would get to that poisoned place. I can't understand how any white person in America could hate any other race, though. The distinction is institutionalized, normalized racism vs personal discrimination, which many have rightly pointed out throughout the thread.
 
Thorakai said:
But in light of the decision made in the Trayvon Martin case and the complete removal of race from the equation by the jurors in power
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Explain. Would you prefer Zimmerman be considered in a harsher light because Trayvon was black? Is physical and eyewitness evidence precluded by the presence of multiple races? I fail to grasp the point here. Shouldn't justice be colorblind?
 
Thorakai said:
I think it's a perfect way of illustrating the privilege white citizens enjoy if you look at it from a different perspective. Even with the Supreme Court justices closely representing the racial breakdown in the United States, it's apparent just how many more individuals there are in this country that better serve the white population. That is the best case scenario! I can't imagine such a breakdown would easily be replicated if we start dissecting every position of power in the country. You can argue that it is logical that such division of power should work that way under democratic terms, but is it right that someone is automatically blocked from entitlements and opportunities just because they had the misfortune of being born a minority? I'd suspect many would say of course not, yet that picture captures the uphill battle minorities in this country have to face if they hope to get themselves a seat with the powers that be. And even if they get there, they have to hope the white majority can sympathize with their efforts to help the minority population in the country.
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This is assuming that people of a particular skin color only care about the needs of people of the same skin color. It is reasonable to expect this demography of the supreme court because it closely, though not perfectly reflects the demographics of the country. Believing that the only way to eliminate white favoritism is by having a non white majority in power is bucking the odds.

I am not saying that the first assumption has not, or will not hold, only that it doesn't have to hold.
 
Angelus Errare said:
How many of you would trade experiencing racism from the perspective of a white person for experiencing racism from the perspective black person?
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I wouldn't want to go through life on "easy mode", knowing that I leave many still disadvantaged. I would much prefer everyone have a better lot in this world.
 
Devolution said:
Think LBKP's point is that kind of racism will go away with the other.
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You don't fight hate and ignorance with more hate and ignorance. It's over though, he's backed off that bullshit. I got pissed. I'm mostly over it.

But y'all need to understand that there are many white folks who fight that bullshit on the daily and being told that we're all under the same umbrella is infuriating. We have to fight this shit together and it starts on not allowing racism to be casually accepted in any context.

My two cents. I'm calming down now.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
"I hate white people" is a wrong thing for anyone to say. But if my family has been living in poverty because of things white people did to them generations ago, and if we can't get out of poverty because of things white people are doing now, I can understand how they would get to that poisoned place. I can't understand how any white person in America could hate any other race, though.
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You're justifying why it's OK for your race to hate all white people due of various historical and social reasons. But you can't fathom how white people could ever hold negative views about your race, or another other race? Even if they point to their own historical and social reasons for their hatred? Is that right?

You're just saying it's OK to be racist if you're black, but inconceivable and wrong if you're not black.
 
WanderingWind said:
You don't fight hate and ignorance with more hate and ignorance. It's over though, he's backed off that bullshit. I got pissed. I'm mostly over it.

But y'all need to understand that there are many white folks who fight that bullshit on the daily and being told that we're all under the same umbrella is infuriating. We have to fight this shit together and it starts on not allowing racism to be casually accepted in any context.

My two cents. I'm calming down now.
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I'm not saying you do. I'm saying if one kind of racism is people treated like shit and another kind of racism is because people are treated like shit. The latter goes away with the former.
 
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