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[Kano on the Phone]

We do get some individual racism thrown at us, but we're clear of institutional racism because we run the institutions.

Nailed it. Just like you could probably find an instance where sexism works against men, it's generally considered not something you complain about because the game is still being played on your board.

That's horseshit.

I went to a Karaoke bar once and all the staff just looked at us. We asked how much it was and they said it was $30 an hour with a $60 minimum spend on booze each. We left, caught up with our Chinese friend and told her the story and she called bullshit. We went up there with her and they were willing to let us do it for $10 an hour with no minimum spend.

That sounds awful. Please sing us some of your spirituals.

Seriously though, that sounds more like being taken advantage of for not being local than racism.

 

[PastorOfMuppets]

White people absolutely can experience racism.

White people in America, however, don't typically experience the systemic racism that doesn't just hurt feelings but destroys families and communities. That type of systemic racism has in the past prevented economic self sufficiency and social mobility.

Yeah exactly. Peoplen saying that white people can experience racism never inserts this caveat because they take it for granted and don't even know it exists in a lot of cases (Republicans).

 

[Polari]

In societies that are predominantly white, not really. One of the perks of being the majority.

 

[reelbigtink]

First, that's likely bullshit because while you feel uncomfortable, I doubt you're made to be a foreign invader.

Yut you realize you have to go out of your way and into that predominantly black neighbourhood though right? I wake up, I turn on the TV, hell, I just go on NeoGaf and I see it with my ethnicity all the time.

If you seek it out OF COURSE YOU'LL FIND IT. That's the issue that people of colour face that white people take for granted. We have to go out of our way to avoid this shit. I don't watch a lot Hollywood films that involve my ethnicity because it usually reduces me down to an insulting caricature.

Racism is racism but not all experiences are equal and if white people were intellectually honest on that front, people would take you guys more seriously.

I try to join in on these debates and no one's mind is ever changed. People just get mad. For what it's worth I totally agree with you, so you have at least one person who understands, pal.

 

[Tinkleberry]

This is the most diverse the supreme court has ever been......

 

[Toddler]

It's threads like this that makes me wish a mod would hurry up and approve my Reginald Denny account.

 

[watershed]

They can and do.

 

[PastorOfMuppets]

I try to join in on these debates and no one's mind is ever changed. People just get mad. For what it's worth I totally agree with you, so you have at least one person who understands, pal.

You know it's actually really bad in a lot of nerd communities.

I've heard people go so far as to say that being white nerd in modern America is worse than being a black person.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Anyone can experience racism, that stated I'd rather go through life experiencing it from the perspective of a white person than my current perspective. (Don't confuse that with wanting to be a different race because I don't, I just want your overall privilege...there's this nice apartment complex I'm trying to move into).

How many of you would trade experiencing racism from the perspective of a white person for experiencing racism from the perspective black person?

You know it's actually really bad in a lot of nerd communities.

I've heard people go so far as to say that being white nerd in modern America is worse than being a black person.

try being a black nerd.

 

[Liberty4all]

White people absolutely can experience racism.

White people in America, however, don't typically experience the systemic racism that doesn't just hurt feelings but destroys families and communities. That type of systemic racism has in the past prevented economic self sufficiency and social mobility.

for what its worth I agree with you... I have travelled the us extensively ... Its a different world from what I grew up with in Toronto, a white world ... I wanted to move to the US for awhile growing up because in the US I felt normal.

Systemic racism is something that effects you when it us all pervasive and around you 24/7. In the us I was just another white guy with all the privliges being the majority entails ... Growing up in north Toronto south Markham i was a hated minority in my age group.

Now that I'm "grown up" i live in a diverse area but very wealthy one (cityplace for those of you from Toronto). Its again a different world from what i grew up in. I feel my experiences in my youth made me a stronger person and gave me some appreciation for what black people go through that live in an isolated area filled with white people. At a systemic level (authority) , i haven't experienced it aside from bring passed over on jobs due to employment equity. So my experience is certainly not the same as a black guy living the ghetto ... IR even that of a black guy living in a white town But i still do feel like i experienced racism in my youth.

ny experience was social racism nit systemic... There is a big difference

 

[The Faceless Master]

You know it's actually really bad in a lot of nerd communities.

I've heard people go so far as to say that being white nerd in modern America is worse than being a black person.

tell them drugs are bad.

 

[CLEEK]

Ask someone Irish if they or they relatives/ancestors have ever been on the receiving end of racism.

Actually, don't bother, as they obviously have. Irish were even sold as slaves along side African slaves during the 17th centuries. They were a bargain for slave owners in the Americas, costing as little at 1/10th the price of an African slave.

Using the term 'white people' is stupid, as within the subest of human that are deemed to be white, you have hundreds or different nationalities and ethical backgrounds. Some have a history of being oppressors, some with a long history of being oppressed.

In Western Europe currently, immigration from Eastern Europe to the wealthy countries in the North/West has seen a rise in overt racism against them. Are people from Poland white? Of course they are. Can they suffer from overt racism, Of course they can.

 

[Monsieur]

Ask someone Irish if they or they relatives/ancestors have ever been on the receiving end of racism.

Actually, don't bother, as they obviously have. Irish were even sold as slaves along side African slaves during the 17th centuries. They were a bargain for slave owners in the Americas, costing as little at 1/10th the price of an African slave.

Using the term 'white people' is stupid, as within the subest of human that are deemed to be white, you have hundreds or different nationalities and ethical backgrounds. Some have a history of being oppressors, some with a long history of being oppressed.

In Western Europe currently, immigration from Eastern Europe to the wealthy countries in the North/West has seen a rise in overt racism against them. Are people from Poland white? Of course they are. Can they suffer from overt racism, Of course they can.

That's nationalism not racism.

 

[stupei]

You know it's actually really bad in a lot of nerd communities.

I've heard people go so far as to say that being white nerd in modern America is worse than being a black person.

Upper middle class white guy I was working with on a project for a week -- I'd known him for like a day and a half -- recently told me that a white male is the hardest thing to be in the world.

I laughed, for obvious reasons.

He got offended, because apparently he was deadly serious. (He followed this up with, "And I'm not racist, by the way. I'm married to an asian woman.")

(The existence of whiners like that make shit harder on everyone, including white people who have experienced actual racism, rare though it might be.)

 

[freenudemacusers]

try being a black nerd.

blerds have it the worst, it is true.

 

[PastorOfMuppets]

Upper middle class white guy I was working with on a project for a week -- I'd known him for like a day and a half -- recently told me that a white male is the hardest thing to be in the world.

I laughed, for obvious reasons.

He got offended, because apparently he was deadly serious. (He followed this up with, "And I'm not racist, by the way. I'm married to an asian woman.")

Of course, the best caveat is that they always have an Asian girlfriend, black friend, voted for Obama, gave money to a charity helping African children with AIDS etc.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

blerds have it the worst, it is true.

Yep.

 

[CLEEK]

That's nationalism not racism.

It's the same thing, dude.

All falls under the umbrella of racism. Don't believe me? Ask the UN.

Article 1 of the Convention defines "racial discrimination" as

...any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.[22]

 

[akira28]

any human can experience racism, discrimination and prejudice.

going into semantics about definitions = stupid

white people can face racism.

White people are racist towards other whites just as much as some blacks are racist towards other blacks.

Check the Protestants vs the Catholics in Northern Ireland. Whites hating on other whites.

check Hutu vs Tutsi in Rwanda. Blacks hating on other blacks

diluting the meaning changes it and interferes with solutions and actions.

 

[KPJZKC]

Absolutely yes - look at the treatment of the Irish migrant labourers who travelled to the UK for work in the 70's. Really terrible shit. Still pretty common to come across some ignorant arseholes who'll treat you like a retard if you're Irish too.

Also, white is not a race :/

And for a more up to date and fucking typical example, polish/eastern european workers in Ireland these days. Treated like shit basically.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I'd still rather be white and go through all those countries than be black.

Absolutely yes - look at the treatment of the Irish migrant labourers who travelled to the UK for work in the 70's. Really terrible shit. Still pretty common to come across some ignorant arseholes who'll treat you like a retard if you're Irish too.

Also, white is not a race :/

Neither is black

 

[stufte]

I'd still rather be white and go through all those countries than be black.

Could you help us understand by describing an average day? Because unless you live in the deep south, I'm not sure I understand. Seriously.

 

[KPJZKC]

I'd still rather be white and go through all those countries than be black.



Neither is black

Thank you for that, I assumed it went without saying though.

 

[R10Neymarfan]

Of course, the best caveat is that they always have an Asian girlfriend, black friend, voted for Obama, gave money to a charity helping African children with AIDS etc.

I know right. This is what most tea party peps would say. Lol

 

[ksan]

diluting the meaning changes it and interferes with solutions and actions.

I think narrowing the meaning it to only fit your context and therefore probably look past the reasons why people are racist is probably a worse idea if you want to solve the issues.

 

[Enzom21]

Could you help us understand by describing an average day? Because unless you live in the deep south, I'm not sure I understand. Seriously.

Are you saying racism toward blacks in the US only occurs in the south?

 

[Liberty4all]

Of course, the best caveat is that they always have an Asian girlfriend, black friend, voted for Obama, gave money to a charity helping African children with AIDS etc.

I have a Filipino wife. But everyone I dated was non white. There weren't any white girls to date even if I had wanted to.

with that said I love my wife to death.

 

[Mumei]

Whites can experience personal racism, but Blacks experience personal AND systemic racism on a daily basis.

This is how I feel. I like Beverly Daniel Tatum's explanation:

Of course, people of any racial group can hold hateful attitudes and behave in racially discriminatory and bigoted ways. We can all cite examples of horrible hate crimes which have been perpetrated by people of color as well as Whites. Hateful behavior is hateful behavior no matter who does it.But when I am asked, "Can people of color be racist?" I reply, "The answer depends on your definition of racism." If one defines racism as racial prejudice, the answer is yes. People of color can and do have racial prejudices. However, if one defines racism as a system of advantage based on race, the answer is no. People of color are not racist because they do not systematically benefit from racism. And equally important, there is no systematic cultural and institutional support or sanction for the racial bigotry of people of color. In my view, reserving the term racist only for behaviors committed by Whites in the context of a White-dominated society is a way of acknowledging the ever-present power differential afforded by Whites by the culture and institutions that make up the system of advantage and continue to reinforce notions of White superiority.​

This could alternatively be formulated as you put it, "White people and people of color can experience interpersonal racism, but only racism against people of color is systemic and has institutional and cultural support." It's simply a semantic choice to reserve the word "racism" to describe the institutional, systemic, and culturally-approved and not the "merely" interpersonal; I don't think it is a necessary one but I understand why some people adopt it.

 

[Platy]

Short answer is : Yes, but not enoght for a "White Pride" shirt don't look like the person is being racist

 

[cheststrongwell]

I don't know, but being a white American is a pretty sweet gig.

 

[CLEEK]

This could alternatively be formulated as you put it, "White people and people of color can experience interpersonal racism, but only racism against people of color is systemic and has institutional and cultural support." It's simply a semantic choice to reserve the word "racism" to describe the institutional, systemic, and culturally-approved and not the "merely" interpersonal; I don't think it is a necessary one but I understand why some people adopt it.

In the US, maybe. In Europe, absolutely not.

 

[Mumei]

In the US, maybe. In Europe, absolutely not.

Well, yes. I am only talking about the United States; if we were talking about another country things could be entirely different.

 

[freenudemacusers]

I don't know, but being a white American is a pretty sweet gig.

you should try being a beige-white american. I can go anywhere!

 

[Seanspeed]

Because compared to what most minorities face in america, racism towards whites is minuscule. Racism towards minoriies can effect there entire life while racism towards whites might effect your afternoon or day. And no ones justifying anything Jesus Christ, am not saying I support racism towards whites, I just feel like its a non-issue.

no, im not saying white people are inherently more racist. But the judicial system in America was founded by, and continues to be a majority white run system... That is slowly changing now, but it's very tough to change whats been ingrained in the cultural history of this country.

If blacks were the majority, no things wouldn't be any better. But a leveled system would be, and that will take lots of time.

So when people bring up the issue of racism against whites, they're not helping, in the grand scheme of things... I know this will probably be taken as "look he doesn't care about white people problems" but you'd be missing the point. Look at things from an outer perspective.

This 'level' system will never happen so long as people adopt the view that racism is only an issue if its oppressing somebody or we achieve a perfect population balance.

If you want change, it needs to happen by attacking the core of prejudicial belief itself, not just trying to stamp out individual cases when they are bad enough for you to declare them 'an issue'.

All I hear in every response to mine is that 'blacks have it worse, blah blah blah', shit that I've not once said anything against and completely misses my point.

I'm looking at this not from an 'outer' or 'inner' perspective. I'm looking at this from a perspective of 'prejudice is wrong'. It does no good to try and 'fix' white people's racism and just ignore everybody else's. That's just waiting for the day when racism from non-whites DOES become a more pervasive issue. Seems like a lousy way to tackle the problem, doesn't it?

 

[stufte]

Are you saying racism toward blacks in the US only occurs in the south?

LOL no. I'm saying that the south is (typically) more obvious, out in the open type of racism. I'd like to know more about the subtle types of racism that happen on a day-to-day basis. The occurrences of systematic racism in daily life.

 

[happypup]

This is how I feel. I like Beverly Daniel Tatum's explanation:

Of course, people of any racial group can hold hateful attitudes and behave in racially discriminatory and bigoted ways. We can all cite examples of horrible hate crimes which have been perpetrated by people of color as well as Whites. Hateful behavior is hateful behavior no matter who does it.But when I am asked, "Can people of color be racist?" I reply, "The answer depends on your definition of racism." If one defines racism as racial prejudice, the answer is yes. People of color can and do have racial prejudices. However, if one defines racism as a system of advantage based on race, the answer is no. People of color are not racist because they do not systematically benefit from racism. And equally important, there is no systematic cultural and institutional support or sanction for the racial bigotry of people of color. In my view, reserving the term racist only for behaviors committed by Whites in the context of a White-dominated society is a way of acknowledging the ever-present power differential afforded by Whites by the culture and institutions that make up the system of advantage and continue to reinforce notions of White superiority.​

This could alternatively be formulated as you put it, "White people and people of color can experience interpersonal racism, but only racism against people of color is systemic and has institutional and cultural support." It's simply a semantic choice to reserve the word "racism" to describe the institutional, systemic, and culturally-approved and not the "merely" interpersonal; I don't think it is a necessary one but I understand why some people adopt it.

Words have power. Racism is a strong word, it makes sense to want to have control over the power that word holds. Strictly and objectively defining words reduces the power of that word. It would make sense to not want this because a strict and objective definition of racism can't support the cultural and social reforms that are necessary in the US. However, the problem is that defining racism as only the institutional form excuses some forms of racism from criticism because worse forms of racism exist. It is important to note that interpersonal racism is still abhorrent in the above definition if it is aligned with the systematic racism, even if it is not apart of the systematic racism.

We need to address both interpersonal and institutional racism in the same way; remove the cultural and financial divide (not the differences, I think they should be preserved as much as possible) between the races (at some point possibly even removing the idea of a race).

 

[kittens]

If you believe white people can experience racism in our current socio-political context / reality / dimension, then you don't understand what racism is. I'd recommend reading some of this stuff as a decent primer.

 

[PastorOfMuppets]

I know right. This is what most tea party peps would say. Lol

Another one I love is how some people will rant and rant about how they don't hate black people - just their "culture" and then they will say something like "But don't get me wrong, someone like Martin Luther King is one of the good ones!"

Hey guys, I don't hate all white people just your culture. But I voted for Stephen Harper and had sex with a white girl last week, some of you guys are pretty cool. Tom Brady is one of the good ones!

 

[Opiate]

This is the most diverse the supreme court has ever been......

That's actually a reasonable representation of America, with comparatively small minorities not taken in to consideration (For example, how do you represent Japanese Americans in the supreme court? They represent .4% of the American population. That should mean that 1 out of every 250 justices is of Japanese decent. It would not be unreasonable at all for there to be no Japanese-American justices at all for a century in succession). Women are underrepresented, but blacks are appropriately represented, hispanics ever so slightly underrepresented, with whites overrepresented by 1 justice.

In a group of 9 randomly chosen Americans, 6 of them should be white, 1 Black man or woman, 1-2 hispanic men or women, 0-1 other.

 

[DocTarHeel]

Sounds like a pretty bad professor or an out of context quote.

Well it was quite a few years ago, but it was a response to an editorial in the student newspaper about how affirmative action was racist against whites. The professor went on about a 5-10 rant at the beginning of class on how wrong the editorial was and how it undermined what she had spent her entire career working on. She also stated quite a few times that it was impossible to be racist against whites.

This is the article: http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2009/03/racebased_affirmative_action_is_inherently_racistbr_

 

[CLEEK]

If you believe white people can experience racism in our current socio-political context / reality / dimension, then you don't understand what racism is. I'd recommend reading some of this stuff as a decent primer.

Nonsense, and has already been covered.

Seeing as white is just a skin colour, are you saying that every single individual with pale skin, regardless of ethnic, racial backgrounds is immune to racism? If you believe that, then you don't understand what racism is.

If you're just referring to white skinned Americans of European decent, and your definition of racism is so narrow, you exclude personal racism, casual racism, and overt racism made by people not in positions of power, then sure, you might be right.

 

[Amakusa]

I don't know, but being a white American is a pretty sweet gig.

Louis CK said it better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqbw4nHrHc0

 

[WanderingWind]

If I see that fucking Louis CK bit posted one more time, I'm going to go make an ham sandwich on Wonder Bread with plenty of mayo. Fucking thing is the white version of Chris Rock's "Black People vs Word I Don't Think I Can Say Here Even In Context Because Of My Overwhelming Crackerness" skit.

 

[Tinkleberry]

That's actually a reasonable representation of America, with comparatively small minorities not taken in to consideration (For example, how do you represent Japanese Americans in the supreme court? They represent .4% of the American population. That should mean that 1 out of every 250 justices is of Japanese decent. It would not be unreasonable at all for there to be no Japanese-American justices at all for a century in succession). Women are underrepresented, but blacks are appropriately represented, hispanics ever so slightly underrepresented, with whites overrepresented by 1 justice.

In a group of 9 randomly chosen Americans, 6 of them should be white, 1 Black man or woman, 1-2 hispanic men or women, 0-1 other.

you missed the point

 

[Valhelm]

I believe that anyone can be racist and anyone can be a victim of racism, but saying "I hate white people" is a hell of a lot more benign than saying "I hate Black people".

 

[ksan]

Well it was quite a few years ago, but it was a response to an editorial in the student newspaper about how affirmative action was racist against whites. The professor went on about a 5-10 rant at the beginning of class on how wrong the editorial was and how it undermined what she had spent her entire career working on. She also stated quite a few times that it was impossible to be racist against whites.

This is the article: http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2009/03/racebased_affirmative_action_is_inherently_racistbr_

Yeah...Well, at least I agree on the point that affirmative action isn't racist.

The problem is when you make it ""more fair"" for one group of citizens"" you must make it ""less fair"" for another group. Affirmative action based on race is in fact racist.

:lol

 

[WanderingWind]

I believe that anyone can be racist and anyone can be a victim of racism, but saying "I hate white people" is a hell of a lot more benign than saying "I hate Black people".

Jesus christ. How does this even make any sense in your mind? Explain how this doesn't sound like the silliest shit you've said today?

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Be one of only 3 white kids in an entire school, you will experience racism.

 

[Tonguer]

Anyone can be subject to racism. This is being argued? Are you sure this person is worth arguing with?

Didn't read too far past this - sums it up for me.

 

[Opiate]

you missed the point

Okay, that's possible. What was the point? That positions of power have, historically, hugely overrepresented white people? That is absolutely true. I just don't think the modern supreme court is a very good way to evidence that, given that it's actually pretty balanced.

If it's something else, let me know.