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[Vlodril]

And you actually quoted it.



Phase 4 will use what is most likely the launch client, or at least an entirely different client, the current one won;t be update and won't work when the OB starts.

Thanks for the reply. Reading comprehension I have none.

 

[Khrno]

Isn't that just, slightly mooned themed though? I thought the guys at Square Enix had a rule about ever letting characters go all the way back to the moon again?

It was called Moon by the players, the name of the area is Ro'Maeve, the reason was that it had some gates called Moon Gate, also during full moon you could trade to a fountain some item required to fight the Ark Angels, or something among those lines.

Yeah, the area wasn't officially called moon or related at all to FFIV, but it was still called Moon by the players.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Still can't use charm much anymore which sucks. Jugs are much better now at least.

Yeah, but it's hardly needed anymore because of the buff jugs + better food healing + new JAs. You can mimic a zoo with jug er juggling. Keep the pet alive as long as possible, then let it die/release it and call the other pet, then snarl giving the new pet all enmity you have so it's locked back on the new. Best of both worlds, snarl only works for jug pets as well, so replacing pets is safer with jugs. Also jugs heal up pretty fast with the stay command now too. You shouldn't need to juggle that often.

I almost said charm has gone to rest alongside the likes of Mug, but you can kite beastmen with charm.

I'm imagining FFXIV in it's maturity. It's going to be so good.

 

[erawsd]

We don't disagree that the combat, stats, et al are incredibly important to how a game plays, just to me they should be in the background. That's pretty much the case already with the beta, so I'm happy with it.

In modern day MMOs that level of efficiency, min/maxing, ect doesn't really bubble up to the surface until the end game where the content supports it. You can play a numbers game on the way to level cap, but its generally a waste of time since its rapidly obsolete.

I'm using what I've been using so far in this thread, my anecdotal experience I told you, this isn't an objective debate, it's opinions.

In other words, you're just pulling things out of thin air -- just making sure

The whole schtick about the DPS meter/parser began when the pics were posted a couple pages back with YoshiP's comment about not enabling it for players.

Well, it began with people commenting how they hope the game never has DPS meters, I don't think there was any distinction between in built vs 3rd party until you came along.

 

[WolvenOne]

It was called Moon by the players, the name of the area is Ro'Maeve, the reason was that it had some gates called Moon Gate, also during full moon you could trade to a fountain some item required to fight the Ark Angels, or something among those lines.

Yeah, the area wasn't officially called moon or related at all to FFIV, but it was still called Moon by the players.

Kinda figured.

And yeah, I really would be shocked if they did something with the other moon, considering how heavily Dalamund has featured into the game already. It would be nice if they finally made a game where characters could get back there again though.

Oxygen be D@/\/\/\ed, I want my FF4 homage!

 

[devious.one]

The charmable mob issue could've been fairly easy to fix though by adding a few more mobs here and there that were viable for it.

By the time most folks got to HNM/Sky Camps and doing it on a regular basis, I think the image was pretty much set in stone. I mean, even after BSTs got full XP from their pets, they weren't invited to parties despite those charmable mobs being so damn buff. Besides, as I recall the Wyrms had charmable (aside from Vrtra, I think it was) mobs nearby that you could use to fight them with and BSTs were still not invited so it's not like all of the content was like Sky.

I do agree with you that devs need to take their licks for stupid stuff but things like DPS meters only help to reinforce the problem or can be the source of it. At a system level, that's why i think they shouldn't be implemented. If folks want to use 3rd party tools, sure but I really don't want the devs to put in something themselves. Thankfully, it seems like they aren't either.

Also if I remember correctly, all the shunning BST received happened even before Windower and others like it became as widespread as it did. Which goes to show, even without damage meters and parsers, this sort of thing can and will happen. We just have to hope devs are there to help patch up any concerns before people run with it.

I can agree with you on the system wide implementation stance. While it's a point I wasn't really arguing against, it's a point I find that doesn't really matter much though, with mods getting the green light; anyone who is looking to use dps meters in a wrong way will still be doing it regardless of the way it is implemented.

Still can't use charm much anymore which sucks. Jugs are much better now at least.

Ah... guess you can't win every battle ;(

Edit-- Looking at some of the new BST abilities now, Snarl looks like the stuff dreams are made of.

 

[theSlacker]

Heck the less he try to understand now, the more he'll enjoy and lose himself when the game launches. My first few weeks with FFXI was pretty much magical. I had fun being lost, not being able to find my way back to the city. I thought FFXI's weather effects were something, the people first playing a MMO and starting with FFXIV will have their socks knocked off.

When I play MMOs now I just go straight for the exp and objectives. I don't waste time with the story or anything. Even now, playing GW2 I'm skipping everything because I found a way to bypass having to even explore the map to level up (spaming a new zone they just added which puts you at level cap. Thinking about it, this is the first time a PVE area raised your level to cap I have ever seen. I'm going to abuse this before the next area is brought in and this is retired). Things will never be like those early FFXI days for me anymore.

Jaded. MMOs will never feel like how they did when you first started them.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Jaded. MMOs will never feel like how they did when you first started them.

http://i.imgur.com/vro0ZDw.jpG][/QUOTE]

:( So true. Especially the landmark that wiki says has no valuables inside.

 

[Anteater]

Jaded. MMOs will never feel like how they did when you first started them.

http://i.imgur.com/vro0ZDw.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

ain't nobody got time to explore the lighthouse

 

[jiggle]

sudden random thought
I really wanna see xi's rse in xiv
esp that green pajamas

 

[J-Rod]

Heck the less he try to understand now, the more he'll enjoy and lose himself when the game launches. My first few weeks with FFXI was pretty much magical. I had fun being lost, not being able to find my way back to the city. I thought FFXI's weather effects were something, the people first playing a MMO and starting with FFXIV will have their socks knocked off.

When I play MMOs now I just go straight for the exp and objectives. I don't waste time with the story or anything. Even now, playing GW2 I'm skipping everything because I found a way to bypass having to even explore the map to level up (spaming a new zone they just added which puts you at level cap. Thinking about it, this is the first time a PVE area raised your level to cap I have ever seen. I'm going to abuse this before the next area is brought in and this is retired). Things will never be like those early FFXI days for me anymore.

Even though I had played MMOs before, XI was pretty magical for me too. I remember meeting a couple of strangers then deciding to brave our first boat ride to the dunes together. That first ride just happened to get raided by pirates and we were all wondering wtf was happening. So much excitement everywhere.

I remember someone on ultima online telling me that learning the game is the funnest part, and I think that is still true in general for MMOs.

 

[frequency]

I would agree that learning MMOs is the funnest part.

The problem for me is that MMOs post-WoW have all been so similar to WoW that the learning part is mostly gone. It's basically playing the same game with a different skin and a few minor system differences.

 

[theSlacker]

I would agree that learning MMOs is the funnest part.

The problem for me is that MMOs post-WoW have all been so similar to WoW that the learning part is mostly gone. It's basically playing the same game with a different skin and a few minor system differences.

And they never end up having the same world depth that WoW did so they always end up even more disappointing.

 

[WolvenOne]

Jaded. MMOs will never feel like how they did when you first started them.

I'm going to do all I can to avoid this.

 

[Lé Blade Runner]

I'm going to do all I can to avoid this.

Same here, really. Then again, the world of FFXIV seems so visually pleasing that I probably want to take my time to explore it.

Phase 4, my body is ready.

 

[StunandStab]

I already explored the entire world that was available to explore in beta phase 3. It didn't take very long and there wasn't much there either. I hope that phase 4 / release has a lot more world to explore. It is indeed visually pleasing, but it felt pretty empty to me in phase 3.

 

[Lé Blade Runner]

I already explored the entire world that was available to explore in beta phase 3. It didn't take very long and there wasn't much there either. I hope that phase 4 / release has a lot more world to explore. It is indeed visually pleasing, but it felt pretty empty to me in phase 3.

I hope they remedy this too, though. For what it is worth, the art direction is just about perfect - I really like the character- and world-design. Very Final Fantasy-ish ( in a good sense - meaning that it pays tribute to FFXI and to the old-school Final Fantasies ).

 

[WolvenOne]

Same here, really. Then again, the world of FFXIV seems so visually pleasing that I probably want to take my time to explore it.

Phase 4, my body is ready.

This is true, and I kept finding little things that I missed during my first, second, and sometimes even third passes through an area. Exploration is actually probably more important to me than the battle or grinding, so I hope they keep a decent little stream of new lil things to discover.

 

[Riposte]

The weirdest thing I found while exploring was a named enemy, in the main den (level 50~) of the Serpent Reavers. Didn't do anything special when I killed him.

 

[WolvenOne]

Didn't really find anything weird.

Though, at the end of Phase 2, another guy and I did decide to see how far into the mountainous area of the Black Shroud, we could explore.

Once the enemies got into something like the sixties, the whole thing become one great big terrified blur.

 

[Xavien]

I already explored the entire world that was available to explore in beta phase 3. It didn't take very long and there wasn't much there either. I hope that phase 4 / release has a lot more world to explore. It is indeed visually pleasing, but it felt pretty empty to me in phase 3.

Thats why i stopped after lvl 24 and the end of the main quest, so i levelled up some other classes to pass the time, so i can start all the higher level stuff fresh in phase 4/open beta.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The first month is always the most fun in MMOs. Everyone is playing and having fun together. Then the free month ends and 50-80% of the players instantly vanish. The ones who remain all rushed to the level cap in 1 week and do nothing but run the same dungeons day after day. The whole world empties out except in cities where people sit and spam the dungeon finder the whole day and pore over the AH for their next gear upgrade.

 

[WolvenOne]

The first month is always the most fun in MMOs. Everyone is playing and having fun together. Then the free month ends and 50-80% of the players instantly vanish. The ones who remain all rushed to the level cap in 1 week and do nothing but run the same dungeons day after day. The whole world empties out except in cities where people sit and spam the dungeon finder the whole day and pore over the AH for their next gear upgrade.

That's, kinda depressing. I'd have figured more people would've stuck around for a few months.

 

[Kandinsky]

FFXI is in the golden age. FFXI HD client update come on, come on!

+188 skill, what the fuck?!

 

[LowParry]

That's, kinda depressing. I'd have figured more people would've stuck around for a few months.

In the case of GAF, this is pretty well known to happen. The question will come down to the server population after the first month. It could dwindle a bit but should remain healthy for a good while. If we're promised this 3 - 4 month content update, plenty will stick around. I know I will - only other MMO I have any big of interest in is Everquest Next. Though Wildstar hold a charm I can't ignore. I may try it out come open beta but that's about it.

 

[Khrno]

+188 skill, what the fuck?!

I said the same thing. Isn't that basically something like +188 Att and, dunno, used to be something like 0.9 for Acc at 75, but still +150 Acc in just that stat.

FFXI being in the Golden Age right now? Not a chance, that was 2007-08, this is the "what the fuck?!" age, to quote Kandinsky.

 

[Midou]

Jaded. MMOs will never feel like how they did when you first started them.

Is it weird I like to explore random nooks and crannies knowing there is nothing there? I can see some 'uber hardcore' guilds and stuff get mad if your that type of player, but that's how I roll. I'm sure a lot of people on here are like that too though.

 

[Allard]

I said the same thing. Isn't that basically something like +188 Att and, dunno, used to be something like 0.9 for Acc at 75, but still +150 Acc in just that stat.

FFXI being in the Golden Age right now? Not a chance, that was 2007-08, this is the "what the fuck?!" age, to quote Kandinsky.

The new item level system is basically a replacement for level caps. In a coming patch having the right average level gear will con mobs differently then there is now. As such gear is supposed to compensate for lvl differential (For instance the item lvl 100 gear is getting some additional STR/VIT etc to immitate actually gaining lvl 100 without actually being lvl 100 and opening up the lvl 50 sub job skills). Some of that 'skill' is actually supposed to compensate for the weapon being a certain item level and thus transforms you into that lvl range, furthermore lvl 99+ the skill range goes up dramatically both for players and mobs. Combat skills like on that weapon only increase accuracy/attack and does not actually increase your 'skill' in the combat menu to keep you from cheating and getting a bunch of weaponskills you normally wouldn't have.

 

[Khrno]

Is it weird I like to explore random nooks and crannies knowing there is nothing there? I can see some 'uber hardcore' guilds and stuff get mad if your that type of player, but that's how I roll. I'm sure a lot of people on here are like that too though.

Why would that 'uber hardcore' guild get mad at you for doing that? What's with this perception of an endgame LS/FC being some sort of nazi regime? Why would they care for what you do during your free time?

Now if you are going to explore those random places at the time that the LS was supposed to meet to run a raid, then I'd understand, but are you seriously saying that?

 

[Taruranto]

Oh man those stinkin useless jug pets before they got off their butts and tried to make them worth while (since you couldn't charm stuff in sea, and so many other crappy areas for bst). Bst jug pets are godly now.



Also the crazy gear that's out really helps pets you call shine, while also helping normal charm pets great too.

FFXI is in the golden age. FFXI HD client update come on, come on!

Man, things really went bananas since they raised the level cap.

Does the game even retain some sort of balance, now?

 

[Shouta]

The new item level system is basically a replacement for level caps. In a coming patch having the right average level gear will con mobs differently then there is now. As such gear is supposed to compensate for lvl differential (For instance the item lvl 100 gear is getting some additional STR/VIT etc to immitate actually gaining lvl 100 without actually being lvl 100 and opening up the lvl 50 sub job skills). Some of that 'skill' is actually supposed to compensate for the weapon being a certain item level and thus transforms you into that lvl range, furthermore lvl 99+ the skill range goes up dramatically both for players and mobs. Combat skills like on that weapon only increase accuracy/attack and does not actually increase your 'skill' in the combat menu to keep you from cheating and getting a bunch of weaponskills you normally wouldn't have.

That sounds so much more complicated than it should but I guess that's what they need to do to prevent the SJ system from breaking the game even more, lol. I mean, hitting 99 the first time was kinda wild but now they're really pushing stuff beyond the cap without lifting it.

 

[Khrno]

The new item level system is basically a replacement for level caps. In a coming patch having the right average level gear will con mobs differently then there is now. As such gear is supposed to compensate for lvl differential (For instance the item lvl 100 gear is getting some additional STR/VIT etc to immitate actually gaining lvl 100 without actually being lvl 100 and opening up the lvl 50 sub job skills). Some of that 'skill' is actually supposed to compensate for the weapon being a certain item level and thus transforms you into that lvl range, furthermore lvl 99+ the skill range goes up dramatically both for players and mobs. Combat skills like on that weapon only increase accuracy/attack and does not actually increase your 'skill' in the combat menu to keep you from cheating and getting a bunch of weaponskills you normally wouldn't have.

The "what the fuck?!" age indeed.

I'm so glad I left FFXI when the cap was about to be raised to 80.

 

[Teknoman]

I still have that explorers feel with XIV, more so now than ever.

 

[Kintaro]

Ugh. I'm fiending for this game. I want to run around with my Roes!

 

[Taruranto]

Jaded. MMOs will never feel like how they did when you first started them.

Ah, this image made me think of a particular FFXI review.

of all Final Fantasy XI players, the friendliest and loveliest is the mid to high-level Tarutaru. Don't ask me why. I don't know why. He just is. But the second most pleasant Final Fantasy XI player is the noob. He's the only person you'll see who acts excited to be playing the game, and he's also the only one who demonstrates a willingness to put coherence over precipitancy and enters actual words into the chat channel. But this is only because he has not been broken yet. I imagine observing the progress of a new Final Fantasy XI player is like watching a mellow and shy college freshman metamorphose into a frat guy who addresses you as "bra" and insists he enjoys the taste of Natural Lite. For the first ten levels or so, the Final Fantasy XI noob will freely party up with other new players, run around Vana'diel and fight monsters for the fun of it, and takes dying (and the occasional level down) in good humor. By the time he hits level 25 or 30, he's punching gibberish like "ok gov go voke pug pitch dont ues bio low dps gets hate save 4 heal" into the chat channel and throwing caps lock hissy fits when the party healer isn't able to get to him on time.

So true, ahah.

 

[falastini]

WoW conditioned players to expect easy, consumable endgame content... especially the later expansions. Players burn through content so fast these days devs can't keep up. Even Blizzard, with all their money, had a hard time keeping up with their playerbase's appetite for more content. If a large company like Blizzard has a hard time adding timely content, imagine how hard it is for smaller ones. I don't get why all these companies decided to mimic WoWs endgame when it's obvious they don't have the manpower to make it work similarly.

Content was slower, and more difficult, back in the day. It was expected to take several months before it was completed, which gave them more time to push out new content. Today, it's not surprising to see people clear new content in weeks.

That said, I don't know if making content crazy difficult again is the answer. The current method isn't working though.

Another thing is the internet has taken a lot of discovery out of MMOs. Content gets data-mined before it's released. Players end up knowing the content before they even play it.

Wildstar has an interesting take on endgame with the dynamic raids angle. If that actually pans out, that might be a new way to approach endgame content.

 

[aliencowz7]

WoW conditioned players to expect easy, consumable endgame content... especially the later expansions. Players burn through content so fast these days devs can't keep up. Even Blizzard, with all their money, had a hard time keeping up with their playerbase's appetite for more content. If a large company like Blizzard has a hard time adding timely content, imagine how hard it is for smaller ones. I don't get why all these companies decided to mimic WoWs endgame when it's obvious they don't have the manpower to make it work similarly.

Content was slower, and more difficult, back in the day. It was expected to take several months before it was completed, which gave them more time to push out new content. Today, it's not surprising to see people clear new content in weeks.

That said, I don't know if making content crazy difficult again is the answer. The current method isn't working though.

Another thing is the internet has taken a lot of discovery out of MMOs. Content gets data-mined before it's released. Players end up knowing the content before they even play it.

Wildstar has an interesting take on endgame with the dynamic raids angle. If that actually pans out, that might be a new way to approach endgame content.

I think there's a middle ground that new MMO's should strive for. Somewhere between WoW where Hard Modes of the most recent raid is super challenging and the rest is pretty much a total joke and how games like Everquest used to do it where they would make bosses so difficult literally no one killed them until multiple exspansions later when they could simply out gear the encounter.

Make all of the Raids challenging enough that they take time to progress through but keep them tuned to a point where they are actually legitimately beatable. From what I have read about XIV and Bahamuts Tower I think they are on the right track with adding floors on a regular schedule in order to keep people progressing through new content without having to do nothing but farm stuff they have already overcome.

Just avoid any more Absolute Virtue situations or stuff like Mata Muram from Everquest.

 

[Teknoman]

I've actually never encountered anyone that used crazy abbreviations or slang in XI or XIV.

 

[Xux]

Man, things really went bananas since they raised the level cap.

Does the game even retain some sort of balance, now?

I doubt they'd give something like that to just one Job.

They could fixed so many things about FFXI on a fundamental level that would've helped a ton with balance like how monsters gain TP, dLVL etc.

Thankfully FFXIV seems to have drifted away from that.

 

[Varna]

I like being a Tank so much on this after being a Controller for so long on DCUO.
You can basically almost relax during a fight as a Tank, compared to spamming power every second and having to watch all you party's power bars.

That was my main in DCUO as well. I imagine that term was coined in WoW... streamlining all the support type classes into doing one thing.

Does FFXIV even have such a class? All I see is tank, healer and dps.

 

[Khrno]

That was my main in DCUO as well. I imagine that term was coined in WoW... streamlining all the support type classes into doing one thing.

Does FFXIV even have such a class? All I see is tank, healer and dps.

I have no idea what a Controller is, but you might be asking for support roles, BRD, ACN and maybe SCH or SMN should fit the role. They will still be classified as one of the 3 main roles, but they will support the party through songs, buffs and debuffs.

Is that what the Controller does?

Edit: meant ACN not ARC.

 

[Varna]

I have no idea what a Controller is, but you might be asking for support roles, BRD, ARC and maybe SCH or SMN should fit the role. They will still be classified as one of the 3 main roles, but they will support the party through songs, buffs and debuffs.

Is that what the Controller does?

Mana regen, crowd control and debuffs. Similar to Red Mage in FFXI.

 

[Khrno]

Mana regen, crowd control and debuffs. Similar to Red Mage in FFXI.

BRD learns Mage's Ballad at lv30 which is MP regen.

CC can be done by THM/BLM, CNJ and ARC.

 

[agentofatlas]

Got this link from the beta forums. Some really cool armors and weapons. Don't know if this is legit though.

http://imgur.com/a/apKoX#1

 

[jiggle]

sigh
just makes me sad something like that can't be summoned


so many awesome looking gears to look forward to!

 

[Allard]

That caped judge like armor is badass. Also wth at that horned Coerul. The Allagan gear (which I assume will be part of the Bahamut Dungeon items or at least be mission based) are pretty neat, I'm sure they will have a pretty neat effect when in battle.

 

[LowParry]

Got this link from the beta forums. Some really cool armors and weapons. Don't know if this is legit though.

http://imgur.com/a/apKoX#1

They look legit in a way. Some of those armors are damn cool looking.

 

[Kenai]

I've actually never encountered anyone that used crazy abbreviations or slang in XI or XIV.

My most memorable Bard moment in FFXI involved slang (I hope).

WAR: BARD!

Me:?

WAR: I NEED ENHANCEMENT NOW!

 

[jiggle]

was siren a known primal?

 

[DrDogg]

of all Final Fantasy XI players, the friendliest and loveliest is the mid to high-level Tarutaru. Don't ask me why. I don't know why. He just is. But the second most pleasant Final Fantasy XI player is the noob. He's the only person you'll see who acts excited to be playing the game, and he's also the only one who demonstrates a willingness to put coherence over precipitancy and enters actual words into the chat channel. But this is only because he has not been broken yet. I imagine observing the progress of a new Final Fantasy XI player is like watching a mellow and shy college freshman metamorphose into a frat guy who addresses you as "bra" and insists he enjoys the taste of Natural Lite. For the first ten levels or so, the Final Fantasy XI noob will freely party up with other new players, run around Vana'diel and fight monsters for the fun of it, and takes dying (and the occasional level down) in good humor. By the time he hits level 25 or 30, he's punching gibberish like "ok gov go voke pug pitch dont ues bio low dps gets hate save 4 heal" into the chat channel and throwing caps lock hissy fits when the party healer isn't able to get to him on time.

I blame the Dunes.

The big issue with FFXI was always efficiency and everyone got their rocks off on making x amount of experience every hour. Folks measured this in DPS and basically really screwing a lot of classes. Even after PUP, BST, and SMN got minor buffs to increase their power, it didn't really change anything and the damage was done.

Now, even though all 3 jobs are really f'ing powerful, it's nigh impossible to be able to do content in FFXI on BST or PUP. SMN fared a bit better but still not like it should have. Heck, BST can't even use one of its signature abilities, Charm, in a feasible way anymore because of the way content was designed and how the community basically helped guide it down that path.

Stuff like that is why I'm against things like DPS meters built-in to the game and for content being designed properly. It's going to happen but at least it isn't wholesale encouragement of it. I really don't want a game where half the jobs can't be played because the community isn't willing to let folks play what they enjoy.

With SMN, in my experience, it was about players not using the job efficiently in parties. I had many parties as a SMN in which we got very good xp, but I didn't play like most other SMNs that I came across. I can't say much about BST or PUP because I didn't play them, but I found SMN parties to do well with the right play style and party structure.