dragonbane
Member
Probably because Sony realized they aren't the best OS designer out there and they better allocate some more RAM, so that the inevitable bloated launch OS doesn't suck. Eventually they will optimize it.
FRIDAYTON MK II: 5.5 million bears and salmon create unholy allliance to sack SONY HQ
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Andronicus
Banned
The only thing i find odd is this "flex RAM" shit
That is an incredibly inefficient usage of RAM. No one in their right mind would design a DVR like that especially on a closed system where RAM is at a premium.
ALBOFIGHTER
Member
yea I guess. One of the reasons I was excited when ps4 was announced is that we actually got 8 gb and what that meant for huge games like FF. All those fields, different designs you can fit, no compromise.... Considering Agin's philosiphy only used 2gb of ram maybe I shouldn't be worried, but 6-7gb sounded future proof to me for the next decade. Hopefully if they need to, they can shrink the OS and alter ram usage.
I am here to point out you are spreading misinformation and have zero evidence to provide what you are saying is true.
Publicly, it was never disclosed, as far as I know, to I, or any of the other GAF insiders; how much RAM would be allocated in the old PS4 setup. Cute fact: the original PS4 leaked documents had zero mention of how much RAM the OS was going to use.
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
Anyone wished the XMB was back ?
So simple, so functional, so light, so inclusive and it only did everything.
So simple, so functional, so light, so inclusive and it only did everything.
February: PS4 has 8gb of GDDR5, the Xbone has 8gb of DDR3. Sony wins.
May: Xbone only has 5gb of the ram for games. The PS4 is assumed to have 7gb (kinda a dumb assumption when you think about it!) Sony wins.
Now: The PS4 has 5.5gb of ram dedicated to games. Xbone still 5gb. Sony loses, cancel your preorder etc.
NOPE. Fuck all lists.Anyone wished the XMB was back ?
So simple, so functional, so light, so inclusive and it only did everything.
NullPointer
Member
I'm encouraging nothing, just saying that is a normal process that happens again and again on this and other forums across the interwebs. Its called people reacting to preconceptions, and those reactions take all shapes and sizes and then you get meta commentary on top of that that jokes about it, trolls about, or adds fuel to the fire, which only leads to more meta commentary on how crazy and insane a thread is and look how big the thread is and carnival of stupid and the thread keeps going and the same posts get recycled reigniting the same argument in circles, yadda yadda ad nausuem.
Basically, chill, especially if you're just freaking out because you think others are freaking out.
Everything... is under... control.
*breathe*
*aummmmmm*
When they allocate an extra GB for potential features, it doesn't exactly give me confidence that the 1.5 number is going down.
dcx4610
Member
That's like having 8 shelves but 4 are full of stuff. You still have 8 shelves but 4 are occupied.
The OS has to run off of something and that's RAM. The Xbone is doing the exactly same thing. Windows does the same thing. Hard drives do the same thing. etc, etc.
dragonbane
Member
The PS4 is not a DVR and I'm pretty sure Sony knows what they are doing. Not going to make a bet, but I have a hunch they are recording to RAM and it will make perfect sense. Same for Microsoft.
I'd love to know where this general assumption came from. Because this was also my initial assumption as well and I don't really recall why . . .
PrivateWHudson
Member
That's fine, I don't care if launch games only use 2gb's of ram. My concern is future proofing future games, not the OS. Sure they may someday open up the partition for games, but they may not. MS could do the same. As I said, I'm not mad, but MS has shown me what that reserve is for, and I don't care for it. Why would I all of a sudden be glad that Sony it's doing the same, but maybe at a lesser quality since the xbox was built from the ground up with this shit in mind? If devs feel that 5gbs give or take is good enough, then I might as well go with the halo box. I thought with the PS4 I was getting a gamers box.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Come on man. Whether the final numbers mean anything in the wide scheme of things is one debate, but please don't try and tell me more of something of the same quality isn't better than less.
and yes 60fps>30fps. without question.
Am i the only one that knew that they wont do any drm? hell they stated that before ps reveal or somewhere around that. was the only one to read that it seems
Hydrargyrus
Member
I'm not upset about the amount of RAM available for games.
I'm upset for what they are selling when they have been saying "made for gamers" and after that they reserve 3'5GB of GDDR5 for a console OS.
When Microsoft reserved 3GB for the OS, it looks to me excessive, but I don't know that is MS thinking with his machine.
But Sony has been saying all the time all the "for games/gamers..." stuff, but finally they reserve even more RAM for the OS (or have even less RAM available for games!)
Who needs a 3'5GB OS in a console?? for what?, for upload videos in facebook?
C'mon, this is not for gamers
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
No, I thought it would be more than 4.5GB though.
It's just not as much as most people assumed would be dedicated for gaming, and Sony did nothing to correct peoples assumptions. With this known, #8GBGDDR5 doesn't stand out as much as it did two days ago.
DC1
Member
Hip Hop Gamer.
Works a a little to hard to 'keep it real'. That's his thing.. I don't begrudge him for it.
He does have sources/connections and is on from time to time. Take it as you will.
I'm waiting on Sony as well.
If that is true the implications are terrible. It will probably record at a low bitrate to make it all fit in RAM and PQ will suffer.
Edit: A good quality 720p stream with mpeg-4 compression is around 5Mbps. For 15 minutes of footage that would require over 500MB of RAM to be reserved for recording.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Aye.
So the PS4 has:
- Cross game chat
- Background/play as you go downloading
- 15 minute video footage recorded at all times
Hardly seems Earth shattering. I don't see why this necessitates such a large usage of RAM.
Not sure if I am being over optimistic here, but a part of me is still hoping that the max RAM allocated to the PS4 will be eventually 1.5-2GB down the line.
You're right. It's 5.5gb. ;p
(Of all the information I hate. It's the "flexible" ram part. Now we're going to have this verbal tug-of-war urgh)
FlyingTeacup
Member
i was thinking this, fellow flying. maybe they added more functions since the 8GB ram that eats more ram.
In terms of resource usage, the 'games machine beast' PS4 is pretty much on par with multimedia box the One without any of its features. That's the problem. I'm a Sony fan, but it's funny how it was all about how much RAM ps4 had for the games, and how Microsoft was shafting gamers using up all of those resources for media functionality, but now all of a sudden, the narrative is 4GB is enough. If it was enough, no one would have ever raised a peep about the One... The problem is that PS4 is blocking off just as much, if not potentially more RAM with nothing to show for it and I fail to see how that goes along with the 'all about the games' script Sony was spouting off.
Developers may not be able to use all of that RAM now, but they will down the line when games become more complex and something we may see is that they will start designing their games around the lower base standards now instead of designing games to exploit that additional resource. If 4 GB is enough RAM, Sony should have just stuck with 4 GB and used the money saved on that GDDR5 and put it into a more powerful GPU or processor. Microsoft actually has dedicated features using those system resources. Sony doesn't, and yet is blocking off more. People are just curious as to how is that possible.
Developers may not be able to use all of that RAM now, but they will down the line when games become more complex and something we may see is that they will start designing their games around the lower base standards now instead of designing games to exploit that additional resource. If 4 GB is enough RAM, Sony should have just stuck with 4 GB and used the money saved on that GDDR5 and put it into a more powerful GPU or processor. Microsoft actually has dedicated features using those system resources. Sony doesn't, and yet is blocking off more. People are just curious as to how is that possible.
PlanetSmasher
Banned
XMB is a hell of a lot better than any cluttered, Metro-esque tile bullshit either Sony or Microsoft could come up with. The less work I need to do to get to where I need to be in my system, the better.
And XMB means less potential for ads. Which means XMB is inherently superior.
The os footprint is already 1.5 with the gig reserved for future features so having a final 1.5 to 2 is not out of reality
I will implore you to think about this:
This generation Sony was caught with their pants down. No cross game chat, no in-game XMB during movie playback / PS2 or PS1 emulation / or during video chat.
Why? Because they didn't plan or think ahead. Sony will aggressively study the Xbox One when it launches, and I suspect Microsoft will do the same. Both machines are offering enough RAM to developers to cultivate their visions while saving a reserve just in case for any extraneous changes.
Disco Batman
Banned
dragonbane
Member
When the devs start complaining, it will. Trust me on that. Sony bend themselves backwards to get the PS3 footprint down, because devs kept complaining. They will do the same for the PS4. Especially since they have 1GB reserved for future-proofing. You know, some sunny day they don't need to worry about future-proofing anymore and they can give the rest of the reserve to the devs as well.
All of our insiders said the same thing. 4.5 GB at launch. 5.5 GB immediately if multiple devs are needing it. Even more once Sony optimizes the OS and when the "future" is here.
JonathanPower
Member
You are assuming that in a game you have to constantly load 176/GB sec. of different data every single frame. However, this is not the case. I would be surprised if there is a game that does that. There is data you must keep constantly in memory. So if you have 7GB of RAM, you can just load 5.89GB of data on one frame, then load another 1GB on the next frame, and you can take advantage of all the available RAM. The more RAM you have, the more data you can cache on it.
From what Shinobi said with his source, the OS is 1.5gb of RAM. Sony is reserving an additional 1gb for potential OS growth.
The PS3 has 0.5 GB and look at the leaps made from games like Resistance to games like GOW 3, Uncharted 2 and The Last of Us. We are talking up to 5.5 GB of GDDR5 for the PS4. Like I said, that would even be more than enough for your PC. We will bee seeing some amazing stuff for sure.
I think when they first announced it and said 1 gb was for OS? I don't know exactly either, but it was repeated her verbatim and it just became accepted knowledge.
For me, I'd rather just have a simple OS like the original x360 blades or something. Have to see how it is in action though. Gens are long, with this much space, who knows what they can implement say 3 years from now to refresh or refine the OS.
BadAss2961
Member
An XMB that's as fast and as functional in-game as it is by itself is all I want out of a console OS.Anyone wished the XMB was back ?
So simple, so functional, so light, so inclusive and it only did everything.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
So is basically, "Hey let's reserve all this RAM so we can do everything that MS does down the road regarding OS features"?
jfoul
Member
I always figured it would end up being a split of 6gb for games, and 2gb for OS. The news is a little disappointing, but I'm guessing that extra 1 gb would have mostly went to waste because the Xbox One has 5gb for games. I think we will eventually see 5gb to 5.25gb later on when everything has matured. I'm not concerned, Pre-Order still Pre-Ordered!
This thread has convinced me to get involved in game dev to some extent ... When ill be bored ill just say something vague and gaf will explode . Fun times 
.Anyway basic points to me are . Ps4 still has better ram and a better gpu. Xbox has kinect (yes this does matter to people one of my friends wanted xbone because he wants to be able to say xbox on... He's changing his mind after playing tlou but that's beyond then point . Kinect does have casual appeal to some extent) xbox seemingly has a better audio driver and better online infrastructure . Neither system is ligh years ahead of the other.
It's going to come down to cost , kinect vs somewhat better hardware and most importantly the exclusives. Which is how it should be . I for one would have got a ps4 even if it was weaker . I just prefer Sony exclusives ...
.Anyway basic points to me are . Ps4 still has better ram and a better gpu. Xbox has kinect (yes this does matter to people one of my friends wanted xbone because he wants to be able to say xbox on... He's changing his mind after playing tlou but that's beyond then point . Kinect does have casual appeal to some extent) xbox seemingly has a better audio driver and better online infrastructure . Neither system is ligh years ahead of the other.It's going to come down to cost , kinect vs somewhat better hardware and most importantly the exclusives. Which is how it should be . I for one would have got a ps4 even if it was weaker . I just prefer Sony exclusives ...
Both Sony and Microsoft will do this. To add more fuel to the fire, both will upclock their GPU's in the future to prevent titles from looking like antiquated portraits in the coming years. A 100 or even 200 mhz upclock could make throw you into a whole new world of awesome.
Ok, I told myself I would stay away but I had to come back to address this. How does this affect you as a consumer in any way outside of a dick measuring contest? You and everyone else acting just as silly's assumption is that in the future, games are going to exponentially explode and need 5-6GBs of RAM when in reality, devs will maximize what they have and take the extra GB if they need it. This is all assuming that the rumor is true.
TheLegendary
Member
Portugeezer
Member
Let's assume there is some feature down the road that Sony wants to implement. The question that is then going to be raised is if the feature is worth 1 GB less for developers.
JonathanPower
Member
And......nowhere in that or anywhere else did they say what amount of that would be "available" for game creation.
There's still 8GB RAM in the console, nothing has changed...yet the whole internet is in panic mode.
It's a bit hilarious actually
The problem is, they never said they added more ram for OS functionalities. And I highly doubt developers would ask for that.
Yes. Second Son looks the way it does, in a devkit, running real time on the PS4. If the games don't speak for themselves, the numbers sure as hell won't.
(insert Titanfall joke)
CadetMahoney
Member
Sony doesn't even have mandatory kinect/eye, but they felt the need to reserve as much/more than x1. . . doesn't make sense. Considering Kinect is awful, and the "console for gamers" thing what features are they worried about?
Yeah, a lot of this really is just Sony fans reeling from a circumcision they set up for themselves with the idea of a 1gb modern OS. Also Xbone fans finally getting an opportunity to rub salt into their bloody dickwound.
FairXchange
Member
This is the more realistic split that I hope they end up at soon. Regardless, I am highly doubtful that amount of RAM is needed at launch or soon after. Nor do I assume that I know how much RAM is even 'enough' in the first place. At the moment, 5.5GB being available is still really massive, and I think it's relatively clear the PS4 is a powerful console at a great price.
Wouldn't it just be for any other feature that they want to add down the road? If they want this system to be relevant 5 years from now, new services may emerge that could change things.
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