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[lherre]

Sony has its own "copy" of directX so it can be done the same way ...

 

[Gemüsepizza]

It's not 50% anymore. It's 40%. MS have announced a speed bump. And driver maturity can make a big difference.

40%? Is this including the 123 GFLOPS reserve for the OS?

 

[LeeFowler.CU]

40%? Is this including the 123 GFLOPS reserve for the OS?

Sony reserves GPU/CPU for OS tasks also.

 

[CorrisD]

Going form this current topic and this one it seems Major Nelsons news has probably done what I imagine they wanted, in that some seem to think MS has access to some sort of magical software that somehow ignores difference in hardware power.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Sony reserves GPU/CPU for OS tasks also.

Probably. But the PS4 doesn't have Kinect, so I imagine it could be lower. And even if it wasn't lower, then it still changes the percentage difference.

 

[LeeFowler.CU]

Probably. But the PS4 doesn't have Kinect, so I imagine it could be lower. And even if it wasn't lower, then it still changes the percentage difference.

We won't know until we get PS4 SDK Documentation, so there's no use trying to argue numbers.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

Multiplatform will be basically identical like it is now.

Except it will be xbox this time thats missing that one shadow or reflection off into the distance that no one gives a shit about.

 

[scoobs]

Multiplatform will be basically identical like it is now.

Except it will be xbox this time thats missing that one shadow or reflection off into the distance that no one gives a shit about.

Except neogaf

 

[IN&OUT]

Except neogaf

Or DF or Lens of Truth or IGN or Gamespot or Reddit or Youtube....basically the whole internet gives a shit about this.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Multiplatform will be basically identical like it is now.

Except it will be xbox this time thats missing that one shadow or reflection off into the distance that no one gives a shit about.

Why? 540+ GFLOPS difference (that's ~1.5-2x WiiU), 100% more ROPS etc., 158% more bandwidth. Sorry but I can't see it.

We won't know until we get PS4 SDK Documentation, so there's no use trying to argue numbers.

I think there is zero chance that the PS4 will use more than 123GFLOPS for the OS. And with this reserve included, the "40%" figure is wrong.

 

[IN&OUT]

Go to any DF face off , you will find them declaring 360 as a winner or superior platform because of 1fps higher frame average than PS3.

Table changed now, then suddenly 50% more raw power doesn't matter?! More fps doesn't matter? Better IQ doesn't matter?

 

[LeeFowler.CU]

I think the "40%" figure is wrong.

Fixed.

 

[Chobel]

It's not 50% anymore. It's 40%. MS have announced a speed bump. And driver maturity can make a big difference.

Are you saying that Sony drivers work like shit and will never be as good as MS drivers?

 

[Xbudz]

So next-gen we might see a graphical difference similar to this:

 

[i-Lo]

They'll range from very close to close and the important bit is that unlike current gen PS only owners would never have suffer the wrath of inferior port.

Both roughly equal I think, with the PC version being far superior.

Keep fighting the good fight bro. Spread the word of PC in every thread.

 

[BigDug13]

I suspect equal graphics with PS4 having more stable framerates in high action sequences.

 

[Tom Penny]

There won't be any big differences. Maybe just in frame rates. They games will have the same bells and whistles but just run slight worse on Xbone. It all will be negligible.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

I think the biggest difference between multiplats will be exclusive DLC, second screen content, Kinect, and Remote Play.

 

[Forsaken82]

So next-gen we might see a graphical difference similar to this:

I doubt it will be that noticeable to be honest.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Fixed.

1312 - 123 = 1189

1840 - 123 = 1717

1717 / 1189 = ~1.44

-> 44% more. Math, how does it work?

 

[IN&OUT]

Ps4 32 ROPS will ensure 1080p for most games, I can see X1 suffering to acheive similar IQ at the same resolution , it might sacrifice 60fps to 30 fps in some cases in order to maintain similar IQ or Resolution as PS4.

 

[LeeFowler.CU]

So next-gen we might see a graphical difference similar to this:

Is that 720p vs sub-720p?

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I don't think multiplats will look much different between the two consoles. But how they perform in terms of stability and framerate is what I am mostly interested in. I don't see the point in having the greatest graphics while sacrificing performance. I can understand people wanting more eye candy, but my priority would be performance over some of the minor graphical improvements.

 

[i-Lo]

1312 - 123 = 1189

1840 - 123 = 1717

1717 / 1189 = ~1.44

-> 44% more. Math, how does it work?

Yea, I did the same calculations as well and inevitably reached the same conclusion. That said we don't know what amount of computational power of GPU is reserved by PS4's OS but I can't think it can be worse than what Xb1 reserves. Then again, if the ram malarkey has shown something it's the Sony can still raise plenty of eyebrows for the wrong reasons.

 

[LeeFowler.CU]

1312 - 123 = 1189

1840 - 123 = 1717

1717 / 1189 = ~1.44

-> 44% more. Math, how does it work?

So you're making up numbers to support your argument?

 

[HawksWinStanley]

I think whoever offers the better online service will win out.

 

[cyberheater]

So next-gen we might see a graphical difference similar to this:

From what I can gather. It's more likely that the PS4 could have a higher quality implementation of AA and run natively at 1080p, the Xbox One version might implement a dynamic resolution solution to keep frame rate parity.

It's not going to be something as obvious as missing bushes or geometry.

I think whoever offers the better online service will win out.

They are both behind a paywall now. It's going to be interesting to see how Sony justifies it.

 

[Absinthe]

The driver situation with Nvidia vs AMD pc gfx cards was where this sentiment stems from. That situation is much better now as AMD has improved their drivers a lot but in the past some games had really big differences when comparing two of the same power-level cards or even a higher AMD card vs a lower Nvidia. I have a feeling MS' drivers and dev tools will be better- they're Microsoft after all. Then eventually maybe a year or two down the line every multi-plat will be better on PS4 once devs get fully acclimated.

I'm not sure where you get this feeling. In multiple interviews it's been stated that the PS4 was very easy to develop for, this is not like a normal PC and their drivers, and MS seems like they are already behind with their development tools.

I would say that regardless of DirectX vs OpenGL, or whatever PS4 uses, the GPU difference will be difficult to overcome for MS. From a third party perspective they will be close, but you will most likely see better framerates on the PS4 versions.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

I don't expect a great deal of difference between PS4 and XB1 multi-platform titles.

For the simple reason that it's not in the developer or publisher's best interest to make one version significantly better. Which will cripple sales of the inferior version.

Nor is it cost effective to spend time and effort pouring development resources into one platform if there's no financial reason for doing so.

However, if the next generation is anything like the latter half of this one then I expect PS4´s first party titles to easily outshine those on the XB1. This is going to be far more problematic for Microsoft once the second wave of PS4 titles hit the shelves.

 

[TheCloser]

I've been thinking about how the multi-platform games are gonna look between the consoles, how much of an advantage PS4 will have and so on.

Here is a curveball... I predict some MPs will look and/or run better on X1 due to the drivers and other software things.


That's a quote from Nelson.

You know what it could be like? Nvidia vs AMD driver situation where AMD used to have performance issues due to their drivers despite the cards being the same power or even AMD's being faster. I'm thinking X1's drivers and other optimization tools might be better since MS is a software company so some early multi-plats might look better. And then later on in the gen the PS4 versions will look better. Another reason could be maybe devs take their familiarity with the superior dev tools from the 360 and use them for X1.

Idk, probably a stupid thread but just a gut feeling I have. I've only got a PS4 pre-ordered, this isn't a fanboy post. But can anyone else see this happening or am I crazy?

This whole post. LOL

 

[LeeFowler.CU]

Ps4 32 ROPS will ensure 1080p for most games, I can see X1 suffering to acheive similar IQ at the same resolution , it might sacrifice 60fps to 30 fps in some cases in order to maintain similar IQ or Resolution as PS4.

Games that target a locked 60fps aren't going to be 30fps on a competing platform, no way. IQ will be slightly lower but no way are they going to throw away a design decision.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

At most, Xbox vs Gamecube, but the other way around.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

Games that target a locked 60fps aren't going to be 30fps on a competing platform, no way. IQ will be slightly lower but no way are they going to throw away a design decision.

Like how the first Madden (maybe first two?) on PS3 were 30fps, while the 360 versions were 60?

 

[badb0y]

Short answer: No.

Long answer:

No, nothing can make up 40% raw GPU power and a better memory system unless Xbox One has it's GPU changed or bumps the core clock up by another 345 Mhz.

The difference between PS4 and Xbox One is much greater than the difference between Xbox 360 and the PS3. However, I don't think that the third parties will use the extra power to differentiate too much because they want to keep the versions as close as possible for a similar experience across next gen consoles.

First party PS4 games are probably going to blow away the Xbox One especially a few years down the line. The PS4 can dedicate resources to GPU compute and still have more GPU power than the Xbox One.

 

[childplease]

Both roughly equal I think, with the PC version being far superior.

Yup.

Pc's superiority will be shown day one this time unlike previous gens when consoles had more powerful hardware. This time around PC's have far more powerful hardware even before the consoles are out.

 

[LeeFowler.CU]

Like how the first Madden (maybe first two?) on PS3 were 30fps, while the 360 versions were 60?

Lazy developers, etc., etc. Okay. If true, good point. I stand corrected.

 

[cyberheater]

Has it been confirmed that Xbox One uses 2 cpu cores dedicated to the OS?

 

[c0de]

It won't be an api-issue. Both will deliver a customized and optimized api for their needs, just like this gen.

 

[Portugeezer]

As far as performance or graphics are concerned there is little to no reason for any multiplat to not be better on PS4 in some way.

That's how I see it.

It's not 50% anymore. It's 40%. MS have announced a speed bump. And driver maturity can make a big difference.

Fuck percentages. It's 530 Gflops more powerful, that's like 2 Wii U's (3 if you believe some peoples figures about Wii U performance).

 

[ChainsawFilms]

There are several scenarios the dev can chooose.

Assuming both platforms have locked framerates (30 or 60, it doesn't matter here). Push the boat out with "lots of shit happening on screen" and you may come to situations where the X1 drops some frames while the PS4 stays solid. Of course the PS4 can drop frames, but in that identical situation the X1 will drop more.

Alternatively, they can simply drop the X1 screen resolution down 20 to 30% (that will make up the 50% (or whatever it is this week) GPU difference, as these things tend not to scale linearly). The human eye is more sensitive to horizontal resolution than vertical, so rather than 1920, they may get 1400 and keep the full 1080 horizontal. For example. This could even be dynamic, like Wipeout on the PS3. You can take this further and introduce lower LOD models if needed to maintain framerate, and go with a triple buffer approach (I'm not sure of implications of this with the ESRAM though, I've not done the math).

Third, they can program for the lowest common denominator, in this case the X1 (that's not intended to be flame bait), and ensure there are no scenarios in the game where the framerate would drop below their intended locked target. Possible on single player games, not so much on, say, Battlefield 4.

End of the day, for the average gamer, they won't really notice, or care. Unless you saw things side by side, you'd not realise what you were missing. Let Digital Foundry fuel the "Mine is Better Than Yours" debate if you must.

Games will look amazing, on both platforms, and give the industry a much needed breath of fresh air. Maybe rather than us analysing and critiquing every little PR statement that comes out, and misinterpreting information (intentionally or not) in some endless quest to make Their Console Of Choice better than The Other, shouldn't we all just be happy that this [far too long] generation is coming to an end and by the end of the year, we'll all have shiny new hardware plugged into our TVs

 

[Chobel]

Has it been confirmed that Xbox One uses 2 cpu cores dedicated to the OS?

Pretty much confirmed. From Kotaku article:

The game is loaded in memory and is fully running. The game has full access to the reserved system resources, which are six CPU cores, 90 percent of GPU processing power, and 5 GB of memory. The game is rendering full-screen and the user can interact with it.

Of course it can be changed by optimizing XBox one OS.

 

[GamerTime]

XBO version

Vs.

PS4 version

That 40% difference will show a lot more than the 5% difference this gen showed in multiplatform games. I can't believe UbiSoft released that XBO version looking the way it did. lol

j/k

 

[szaromir]

PS4:
1080p
60fps
MSAAx8
AFx16
high-res alpha blending
real-time global illumination
high res shadows

Xbone
720p
30fps
no AA or some cheap FXAA
no AF
low res alpha blending
rudimentary lighting
shadows turned off

 

[Zatoichi's Cane]

.. I predict some MPs will look and/or run better on X1 due to the drivers and other software things.


That's a quote from Nelson.

Ok hmmmm no

 

[Andronicus]

Yes, you are crazy

 

[cyberheater]

Pretty much confirmed. From Kotaku article:

Of course it can be changed by optimizing XBox one OS.

Thanks.

I don't understand why MS would go through the loops of slightly increasing GPU clock speed if they are going to squander 10% for the OS. At this point. I don't believe that this figure of 10% is true anymore. Certainly not while the game is full screen.

I also think that to gain an advantage (or remain in shouting distance of parity). It would make sense to free up an additional cpu core for gaming performance.

 

[ypo]

So driver is the new secret sauce.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone talking about drivers for consoles before today.

 

[Punkster_NY]

But I think we will see some 1st party from Sony in 4 years that are amazing. I think MS will have some amazing 1st party also in year 3.

Any reason why it's going to take Sony's 1st party devs any extra year to put out those amazing games?

 

[CouldBeWorse]

PS4:
1080p
60fps
MSAAx8
AFx16
high-res alpha blending
real-time global illumination
high res shadows

Xbone
720p
30fps
no AA or some cheap FXAA
no AF
low res alpha blending
rudimentary lighting
shadows turned off

Try harder. First run games already prove this wrong.

 

[uncledonnie]

So driver is the new secret sauce.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone talking about drivers for consoles before today.

The supposed lack of ability to "code to the metal" on X1 has been brought up quite frequently on this forum.