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[chaosblade]

VLIW doesn't have to have a higher theoretical performance its majorly dependent on the number of shading cores / work units you have in the GPU. I think the measured speed difference between GCN and the last gens cards (VLIW4 I think) was ~20% at the same clock speed, maybe higher depending on the workload. GCN brings more then just a different shader unit it also improves the cache hierarchy among other things.

That's why I said all other things equal. Here's a comparison for example.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?279169-GCN-vs.-VLIW5-performance-improvements

5770 has more FLOPS, but the 7770 outperforms it handedly. A significant part of this definitely comes from the well known unterutilization issues of VLIW. Using it in a console will be at least somewhat beneficial versus a PC ("coding to the metal" meme actually comes into play correctly for once!) but obviously it's still going to remain underutilized in most situations.

But I wasn't really even considering other improvements, just efficiency. I guess that's what happens when you're posting at 7 in the morning.

 

[z0m3le]

out of every 5 ALUs in VLIW5, only 3.4 on average are used, this is why HD 5770 loses so badly to GCN, however if all 5 ALUs were to be used constantly, VLIW5 would have better performance and could beat GCN on heat and power consumption (thanks to VLIW5 ALUs being much smaller than GCN)

 

[Apophis2036]

The days of the GameCube comparison specs with Ps2 and Xbox are laughable, I won't say much on that department but the "theoritical" peaks and polygon counts of that generation did not matter much as the exclusivity deals with 3rd parties. Nintendo did not have any problem with the specs of the GameCube. The emotion engine Ps2 was using was so exotic so to back their claims the tech demos they represented in E3 was full of bullshit and PR talk that reminded me the February presentation of the Ps4 revelation. Old man faces, same as quantic dreams sorcerer head, target renders.

Wii U is a very efficient machine, to place it little above the Xbox360 and Playstation 3 is not correct. I do not know if you are like the people that say more RAM is MORE POWER because that is the mistake that most unfamiliar with silicon engineering fail to understand.

More shared memory do not have anything to do with processing power even bandwidth do not apply correct in practice even if in theory it is possible. X86 CPU architecture especially that APU AMD uses for Xbox one and Ps4 is from the self cheap part. Jaguar is literally an upcloacked bob cat(see benchmarks for this CPU) and Ps4 and Xbox one have two duct tape together. Who on the right mind says that is a next gen architecture. Plaster a shared pool of memory of 8 GDDR5 of DDR3 in that is like put 8 mechanical pumps with capacity of 17 litres per hour single pipes and transfer the Pacific ocean to the Atlantic and say that you created the fastest way to transfer one ocean to the other. With the Wii U we do not know shit about how its innards work. If a guy with a dev kit on GAF can do a benchmark an in a way pass the info without breaking the NDA would give us an idea how the machine works.

Some people would call me crazy BUT I believe the difference between XOne/Ps4 vs the Wii U is that of a 2 generations middle range GPU like an HD Radeon 7430M(Wii U) with a HD Radeon 7690M XT(Xbox One/Ps4). From the game that I have seen running real time. Pass that it also depends on the studio and tools that can process the power of this machines and we haven't seen anything on Xbox One or Ps4 or Wii U it is too early to pass Judgement.

Because the exotic architecture the GameCube pulled more than twice the process power of its "numbers". It was like a Volkswagen Touareg with a porche 955 cayenne engine under the hood.

Thats the way I think Wii U manufactured because I do not have anything that past gamecube engineering to back my claims. I need games to pass judgement of what Wii U is capable of. Also no middle ware engines comparison because no one will bother optimise a Wii U version of a mutli-platform game that is cross gen.

Let me start by saying that I read the WUST's since part two and posted since part three, I went out and bought WiiU on launch day and I have been playing Nintendo games since 1988, they are also my favorite first party company by a large margin. I'm not here to wind people up or troll, just to give my honest opinion.

Since we know very little about the power of the GPU then we can only go on the games we have seen in action.

No WiiU game I have seen is anything more than a marginal leap over even mid tier PS360 games and they pale in comparison to the really large budget games on those systems like Killzone, God of War, GT, Uncharted, Halo , Gears, Fable and Forza IMHO.

Now do MK8, X, Bayonetta 2 and Smash look nice ?, of course they do but they do not represent a significant leap of any kind over the last generation of consoles to me.

Nintendo have simply tried the same strategy as they did with the Wii, a slightly more powerful last generation console with the 'hook' designed around the controller. It simply hasn't worked thus far in terms of sales though.

This is a company that has a CEO on record as saying they will not compete in a hardware or software budget arms race with it's main competitors and that it believes that having an over abundance of third party software on it's console directly damages it's first party software sales (thus it doesn't see the need to build hardware to support those companies latest engines).

Until that CEO is fired or steps down we will not see a change in attitude or direction from Nintendo.

To Ideaman's credit he always maintained that WiiU would be an 'XBOX 360 ++' and from the software we have seen so far it looks to be exactly that.

Trying to demean PS4/XBO software like Killzone Shadow Fall, Infamous Second Son, Ryse and Dead Rising 3 is pretty out of order imo as you can see a clear leap in those games over current generation offerings, something that cannot be said for first party WiiU games.

There really isn't anything to do except wait for the big games and enjoy them, I loved Pikmin 3 and from the demo W-101 will be an incredible experience. There is a lot of fantastic WiiU software on the way in the coming 18 months to enjoy and it matters little to me that the console is much, much closer to last gen than it is to the new consoles.

I think the final nail in the coffin of those who still care about this topic and fight the 'WiiU is significantly more powerful than PS360' fight will come when we see and play the likes of Splinter Cell Blacklist, Batman Arkham Origins, Assassin's Creed IV, CoD Ghosts and Watch Dogs. My guess is that some of them will again fail to look / run even as well as the PS360 versions, nevermind comparing favorably to the PS4/XBO versions.

 

[RayMaker]

Let me start by saying that I read the WUST's since part two and posted since part three, I went out and bought WiiU on launch day and I have been playing Nintendo games since 1988, they are also my favorite first party company by a large margin. I'm not here to wind people up or troll, just to give my honest opinion.

Since we know very little about the power of the GPU then we can only go on the games we have seen in action.

No WiiU game I have seen is anything more than a marginal leap over even mid tier PS360 games and they pale in comparison to the really large budget games on those systems like Killzone, God of War, GT, Uncharted, Halo , Gears, Fable and Forza IMHO.

Now do MK8, X, Bayonetta 2 and Smash look nice ?, of course they do but they do not represent a significant leap of any kind over the last generation of consoles to me.

Nintendo have simply tried the same strategy as they did with the Wii, a slightly more powerful last generation console with the 'hook' designed around the controller. It simply hasn't worked thus far in terms of sales though.

This is a company that has a CEO on record as saying they will not compete in a hardware or software budget arms race with it's main competitors and that it believes that having an over abundance of third party software on it's console directly damages it's first party software sales (thus it doesn't see the need to build hardware to support those companies latest engines).

Until that CEO is fired or steps down we will not see a change in attitude or direction from Nintendo.

To Ideaman's credit he always maintained that WiiU would be an 'XBOX 360 ++' and from the software we have seen so far it looks to be exactly that.

Trying to demean PS4/XBO software like Killzone Shadow Fall, Infamous Second Son, Ryse and Dead Rising 3 is pretty out of order imo as you can see a clear leap in those games over current generation offerings, something that cannot be said for first party WiiU games.

There really isn't anything to do except wait for the big games and enjoy them, I loved Pikmin 3 and from the demo W-101 will be an incredible experience. There is a lot of fantastic WiiU software on the way in the coming 18 months to enjoy and it matters little to me that the console is much, much closer to last gen than it is to the new consoles.

I think the final nail in the coffin of those who still care about this topic and fight the 'WiiU is significantly more powerful than PS360' fight will come when we see and play the likes of Splinter Cell Blacklist, Batman Arkham Origins, Assassin's Creed IV, CoD Ghosts and Watch Dogs. My guess is that some of them will again fail to look / run even as well as the PS360 versions, nevermind comparing favorably to the PS4/XBO versions.

well said old sport

 

[Munkybhai]

.
I think the final nail in the coffin of those who still care about this topic and fight the 'WiiU is significantly more powerful than PS360' fight will come when we see and play the likes of Splinter Cell Blacklist, Batman Arkham Origins, Assassin's Creed IV, CoD Ghosts and Watch Dogs. My guess is that some of them will again fail to look / run even as well as the PS360 versions, nevermind comparing favorably to the PS4/XBO versions.

I thought that common consensus on the marginally poorer performances of PS360 multiplatform ports on the WiiU was due to those games being made for different hardware and not being well optimized for the Wii U. Seeing as though no one is expecting 3rd parties to sink money or time into their Wii U versions, I don't see how a failure to outperform the PS360 versions will mean much.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

and that it believes that having an over abundance of third party software on it's console directly damages it's first party software sales (thus it doesn't see the need to build hardware to support those companies latest engines).

Woooow, is there a link for this?

 

[Wall]

No WiiU game I have seen is anything more than a marginal leap over even mid tier PS360 games and they pale in comparison to the really large budget games on those systems like Killzone, God of War, GT, Uncharted, Halo , Gears, Fable and Forza IMHO.

Now do MK8, X, Bayonetta 2 and Smash look nice ?, of course they do but they do not represent a significant leap of any kind over the last generation of consoles to me.

I don't really feel like I have a stake in this debate. Graphics have long passed the point of looking good enough for me. I have to look harder and harder to see differences people point out to indicate graphical the graphical superiority of one title over another.

That being said, I think it is interesting how subjective comparisons like this are becoming. Earlier today someone posted a youtube video of the Gameexplain guys going over the trailers of X. They said the trailers were the first WiiU titles that looked like a clear step up from PS360 games to them.

I assume they've seen plenty of games between them, enough to reliably make such a comparison. Still, it is pretty subjective. What exactly constitutes a "significant" jump visually anymore?

This is a company that has a CEO on record as saying they will not compete in a hardware or software budget arms race with it's main competitors and that it believes that having an over abundance of third party software on it's console directly damages it's first party software sales (thus it doesn't see the need to build hardware to support those companies latest engines).

Iwata really said this? I'm not doubting you, just expressing amazement.

 

[69wpm]

...that it believes that having an over abundance of third party software on it's console directly damages it's first party software sales (thus it doesn't see the need to build hardware to support those companies latest engines).

Source for the crap you just wrote? Dumbest thing we will read here all week, congratulations.

 

[foxuzamaki]

I don't really feel like I have a stake in this debate. Graphics have long passed the point of looking good enough for me. I have to look harder and harder to see differences people point out to indicate graphical the graphical superiority of one title over another.

That being said, I think it is interesting how subjective comparisons like this are becoming. Earlier today someone posted a youtube video of the Gameexplain guys going over the trailers of X. They said the trailers were the first WiiU titles that looked like a clear step up from PS360 games to them.

I assume they've seen plenty of games between them, enough to reliably make such a comparison. Still, it is pretty subjective. What exactly constitutes a "significant" jump visually anymore?





Iwata really said this? I'm not doubting you, just expressing amazement.

i know exactly what vid your talking about, and i said the samething when i saw that trailer, now im not blind though i am near-sighted and ive seen my fairshare of 360 and PS3 games both on the internet and real life, im not a huge grahics buff, like you i think we're at the point of "good enough" however being a enthusiast i can pinpoint things the average person wouldnt, and i can say that def from the 1st party games and to point out 3rd party, zombiU theres things that at the very least shows a small noticeable leap since the wiiU launch, zombiU had poor textures and such yet, the lighting was insane, its lighting you could possibly see in high end console games, but its everywhere, its just very noticeable and its in a very low budget game, pikmin 3 just has the right stuff in the right places, great lighting, insane texture quality, fur shading, etc. etc. that just coming together with the artstyle makes it look a step above what we usually see on consoles, and when E3 came around games like mario kart 8, bayonetta 2 and especially X made me say that yes, the wiiU can have a clear visual step above the PS360, and i dont just go by graphics but by framerate, i cant see MK8 and bayo2 running, atleast easily on those 2 systems at 60fps, I think a old poster on here said it best, i forgot his username right now but he said the architecture of the wiiU will make it hard to distinguish wiiU games from the X1 and PS4, its why we look at the 3DS and see revelations and go
that looks like a PS360 game, with the architecture the wiiU has right now, i think unless they're looking for things like lower res textures in certain spots and so on, its going to be hard to tell the difference, alot of people already admit to not telling the difference already.

 

[Lumyst]

So I've heard the term "shaders" mentioned a lot regarding HD games. I've read up on them, but I still have some questions. So the phrase refers to a component of a gpu (shader core?) A shader is also a program that is run on a GPU instead of a cpu? Shaders are effects applied to an image before it is displayed on the screen?

So if I understand correctly, the Wii U is capable of similar or slightly better geometry than the Xbox 360/PS3 but with the greater amount of ram is able to have better textures, and the more modern GPU has better effects such as reflections/lighting and fire, fur(?) etc? So like polished up Xbox 360/PS3 graphics at better framerates and resolution?

 

[69wpm]

I think it's laughable at best to say the Wii U plays in the same (graphical) league as PS360. The best example we have at the moment is the comparison between Bayonetta 1 & 2. This post sums it up quite nice.

 

[foxuzamaki]

I think it's laughable at best to say the Wii U plays in the same (graphical) league as PS360. The best example we have at the moment is the comparison between Bayonetta 1 & 2. This post sums it up quite nice.

yeah actually thats one of the big huge things i noticed when i looked at bayo2 demos, they are speeding on a jet, through a highly detailed and large city, while simultaneously fighting multiple enemies while also the jet is taking damage, than theres a giant miniboss also flying around in the background, theres smoke and fire effects, and combine that with bayonetta's high res, high poly model which switched from ingame cutscene to gameplay and its doing alot, all at 60fps

 

[ExigentContact]

I think it's laughable at best to say the Wii U plays in the same (graphical) league as PS360. The best example we have at the moment is the comparison between Bayonetta 1 & 2. This post sums it up quite nice.

I still can't think of one single game on the PS3 or 360 doing as much as X does in terms of poly counts and raw detail while maintaining that scope and draw distance.

 

[LCGeek]

I still can't think of one single game on the PS3 or 360 doing as much as X does in terms of poly counts and raw detail while maintaining that scope and draw distance.

or without losing frames which is rarely pointed about consoles sporting eye candy but not much else in graphics or IQ.

 

[foxuzamaki]

or without losing frames which is rarely pointed about consoles sporting eye candy but not much else in graphics or IQ.

indeed

 

[blu]

No one's going to be using PowerPC in a supercomputer. POWER7 is not the same thing as the architecture used in the Wii U.

You haven't seen Top500 of the supercomputers for the past, erm, 10 years, have you?

 

[PrimeX]

I think it's laughable at best to say the Wii U plays in the same (graphical) league as PS360. The best example we have at the moment is the comparison between Bayonetta 1 & 2. This post sums it up quite nice.

Hah didn't see this comparison but 3Dude gets this nonsense of WiiU vs PS360 discussion to end. I'll bookrmark that link and paste it on GAF from time to time

 

[mo60]

lolwut?

The console is able to pull off better looking effects than the 360 and ps3,but it's not significantly better than them.The gpu in the console is low end probably even with it's customizations.The cpu is also low end to.I care little about graphics in a console anyway.

 

[Heyt]

I still can't think of one single game on the PS3 or 360 doing as much as X does in terms of poly counts and raw detail while maintaining that scope and draw distance.

Maybe GTA V...?

 

[MegalonJJ]

Until that CEO is fired or steps down we will not see a change in attitude or direction from Nintendo.

I'm not sure this is as accurate/cut & dry as you make it seem.

The company decisions, direction, attitude and so on, will be prevalent through the board of directors too.

 

[TheD]

Power PC architecture is way more advance than of AMD and Intel commercial CPUs with their X86 processors(not that Wii U have a X86 CPU). Again that's nothing to do with what I said in my previous post that you intentionally misinterpreted.

PowerPC is not "way more advanced" than AMD and Intel CPUs!

PowerPC is old and mostly most not worked on anymore, it is CPUs like the POWER7 (which the WiiU CPU is not!) that can give AMD and Intel a run for their money.

You sound like a mac fanboy pre switch to Intel!

 

[Jack Cayman]

No one's going to be using PowerPC in a supercomputer. POWER7 is not the same thing as the architecture used in the Wii U.

Wii U core is designed and heavily customised by power PC architecture, no it is not a power 7 BUT have similarities with this architecture. Also multi chip module that was designed specifically for Wii U which is pretty high tech if you ask me.

If it's the same core, how does a 1.5 GHz Jaguar outperform a 1.6 GHz Bobcat by 22% in a single-threaded benchmark?

I'm not saying it is exactly the same core, because there are clearly some optimisations. However to your question of why a Jaguar 1.5Ghz would outperform a Bobcat 1.6Ghz by 22% in the test you linked too. Part of the reason would be that the Jaguar based AMD A4-5000 tested has 50% more main memory bandwidth than the Bobcat based AMD E-350. Also Jaguar has a improved L2 cache design which increases effective bandwidth further and so increases performance further. The core itself will also have some part to play in the increased performance of course.

Thanks for answering.

Let me start by saying that I read the WUST's since part two and posted since part three, I went out and bought WiiU on launch day and I have been playing Nintendo games since 1988, they are also my favorite first party company by a large margin. I'm not here to wind people up or troll, just to give my honest opinion.

I really do not care if you love nintendo or not. This thread is to state evidence about the power of the Wii U GPU nothing more. I am not interested in console wars.

Since we know very little about the power of the GPU then we can only go on the games we have seen in action.

No WiiU game I have seen is anything more than a marginal leap over even mid tier PS360 games and they pale in comparison to the really large budget games on those systems like Killzone, God of War, GT, Uncharted, Halo , Gears, Fable and Forza IMHO.

First of all you said it yourself, FIRST PARTY large budget games, that's the key words to see great graphics on a today's videogame. Can you give me one game on the Wii U that has near of that budget until now? No I do not think you can. So your point is invalid from the start.

Now do MK8, X, Bayonetta 2 and Smash look nice ?, of course they do but they do not represent a significant leap of any kind over the last generation of consoles to me.

Again we have only seen a fraction and trailers from X, Bayonetta 2 cannot run on current gen system without extreme sacrifices if they want to maintain the 60fps with all that is happening on screen, plus shaders,lighting etc. So again you think it not impressive, that is very different than it is not more powerful than what the ps3 and xbox 360 do, they can't. Mario Kart is an arcade racer low budget and had crisp IQ 1080 native resolution running again in 60fps and they trying to do that in split screen. Which game does that in current gen? Same applies for Smash. So the console in its early start do things that this gen consoles cannot. So is it next gen for you or not as impressive for next gen? Real question.

Nintendo have simply tried the same strategy as they did with the Wii, a slightly more powerful last generation console with the 'hook' designed around the controller. It simply hasn't worked thus far in terms of sales though.

Nope, Wii could not run any of the middleware next gen engines that was on Xbox 360 and Ps3. Wii U can. Cry engine,check, Unreal 4 check(not supported), Frostbyte 3,Yes according to EA is not economically viable to do but if they wanted they could. So again you are saying inaccurate "facts".

This is a company that has a CEO on record as saying they will not compete in a hardware or software budget arms race with it's main competitors and that it believes that having an over abundance of third party software on it's console directly damages it's first party software sales (thus it doesn't see the need to build hardware to support those companies latest engines).

This is baffling... Can you please state a source where did you see,read or even imagine this statement ever said?

Until that CEO is fired or steps down we will not see a change in attitude or direction from Nintendo.

Same old,same old one person is only at fault as Don Mattrick was for the Xbox one fiasco. Teams are at fault not specific persons.

To Ideaman's credit he always maintained that WiiU would be an 'XBOX 360 ++' and from the software we have seen so far it looks to be exactly that.

Never heard of the guy is he famous? Is he a developer?

Spoiler

(j/k)

Trying to demean PS4/XBO software like Killzone Shadow Fall, Infamous Second Son, Ryse and Dead Rising 3 is pretty out of order imo as you can see a clear leap in those games over current generation offerings, something that cannot be said for first party WiiU games.

Where did I do that? I only said I want to see this games with my own eyes running on my TV. Target renders, promotional video don't cut it from me I had enough lies to justify this approach from myself because of this generation.

There really isn't anything to do except wait for the big games and enjoy them, I loved Pikmin 3 and from the demo W-101 will be an incredible experience. There is a lot of fantastic WiiU software on the way in the coming 18 months to enjoy and it matters little to me that the console is much, much closer to last gen than it is to the new consoles.

I don't thing a Wii remake and W101 are technical show case what the Wii U can do. As for W101 is beautiful for what it is, Kamiya himself said if you want to see graphics this game is not for you.

I think the final nail in the coffin of those who still care about this topic and fight the 'WiiU is significantly more powerful than PS360' fight will come when we see and play the likes of Splinter Cell Blacklist, Batman Arkham Origins, Assassin's Creed IV, CoD Ghosts and Watch Dogs. My guess is that some of them will again fail to look / run even as well as the PS360 versions, nevermind comparing favorably to the PS4/XBO versions.

LOL yeah right multiplatform crossgen titles will be the technical showcase of what the machine can do... As you stated before only first party big budget titles can do that, what made you change your mind in the end of this post. Double standards maybe? If that's the case lets see how much different this games will be on Xbox One and Ps4 as well to pass judgement for the power of this machines.

PowerPC is not "way more advanced" than AMD and Intel CPUs!

You sound like a retarded mac fanboy pre switch to Intel!

http://www.qdpma.com/benchmarks/benchmarks_spec.html

Do the math, before you call some one a retard. You will see some pros and cons but overall performance the power 7 is more powerful. Not include the watson on the topic. Please stay on the thread topic not need to derail the conversation. With CPU benchmarks if you need more info just PM me.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

I still can't think of one single game on the PS3 or 360 doing as much as X does in terms of poly counts and raw detail while maintaining that scope and draw distance.

The world in X looks kinda bland and empty, Just Cause 2 would be a good comparison I guess. There aren't many games that try the kinda things that X is doing. Skyrim I guess? But that game's engine is pretty bad. The MGS V trailer at E3 was said to be what the current gen version will look like, if true MGSV>>>>>>>>>>>>X.

Mario kart is not 1080p, it's 720p with no AA. I'm also not sure if bayonetta 2 would be impossible like you claim.

 

[MoogleWizard]

The world in X looks kinda bland and empty, Just Cause 2 would be a good comparison I guess. There aren't many games that try the kinda things that X is doing. Skyrim I guess? But that game's engine is pretty bad. The MGS V trailer at E3 was said to be what the current gen version will look like, if true MGSV>>>>>>>>>>>>X.

If Xenoblade is anything to go by, the world in X should be anything but bland and empty.

Can you fly in MGS and go everywhere you can look? Are there giant creatures flying, running and swimming in the world? I guess not, so it's not really a great comparison.

But I can't think of a game that really lets you explore an open world horizontally and vertically, you stay on the ground almost always. So it's not easy to find a direct comparison, the scale in X is just insane.

I don't think the MGSV trailer at E3 was current gen, come on. Why would they use the worst looking version to showcase the game, especially at a PS4 focused event?

 

[tkscz]

The world in X looks kinda bland and empty, Just Cause 2 would be a good comparison I guess. There aren't many games that try the kinda things that X is doing. Skyrim I guess? But that game's engine is pretty bad. The MGS V trailer at E3 was said to be what the current gen version will look like, if true MGSV>>>>>>>>>>>>X.



Mario kart is not 1080p, it's 720p with no AA. I'm also not sure if bayonetta 2 would be impossible like you claim.

In the first trailer I could understand this, but in the second trailer, I just don't get this view. The world was huge and alive in the second trailer. Creatures of all sorts and sizes moving about. People walking the streets and vehicles(?) in the sky. Monsters bigger than buildings walking around.

As for Mario Kart, you have to remember that a huge majority of Nintendo developers are noobs to programmable and compute shaders. Miyamoto admitting that games like Wind Waker HD and Pikmin 3 are their first attempts at using them, and even then they are still new at it.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

If Xenoblade is anything to go by, the world in X should be anything but bland and empty.

Can you fly in MGS and go everywhere you can look? Are there giant creatures flying, running and swimming in the world? I guess not, so it's not really a great comparison.

But I can't think of a game that really lets you explore an open world horizontally and vertically, you stay on the ground almost always. So it's not easy to find a direct comparison, the scale in X is just insane.

I don't think the MGSV trailer at E3 was current gen, come on. Why would they use the worst looking version to showcase the game, especially at a PS4 focused event?

Yeah, I said that there aren't any games that try to attempt what X is doing(besides JC2). Not because it's impossible, but because they are the only people making games like this.
edit: Kojima said that trailer was current gen, it won't run at 1080p/60fps like that trailer was but the assets are from the PS3/360 version.

In the first trailer I could understand this, but in the second trailer, I just don't get this view. The world was huge and alive in the second trailer. Creatures of all sorts and sizes moving about. People walking the streets and vehicles(?) in the sky. Monsters bigger than buildings walking around.

As for Mario Kart, you have to remember that a huge majority of Nintendo developers are noobs to programmable and compute shaders. Miyamoto admitting that games like Wind Waker HD and Pikmin 3 are their first attempts at using them, and even then they are still new at it.

Will all that be interconnected or will it be hubs like Xenoblade? There was dinosaurs and shit running around but the world didn't look full to me.

 

[phosphor112]

Again we have only seen a fraction and trailers from X, Bayonetta 2 cannot run on current gen system without extreme sacrifices if they want to maintain the 60fps with all that is happening on screen, plus shaders,lighting etc. So again you think it not impressive, that is very different than it is not more powerful than what the ps3 and xbox 360 do, they can't. Mario Kart is an arcade racer low budget and had crisp IQ 1080 native resolution running again in 60fps and they trying to do that in split screen. Which game does that in current gen? Same applies for Smash. So the console in its early start do things that this gen consoles cannot. So is it next gen for you or not as impressive for next gen? Real question.

Is this confirmed?
Every single screenshot released is natively 720p.

http://www.qdpma.com/benchmarks/benchmarks_spec.html

Do the math, before you call some one a retard. You will see some pros and cons but overall performance the power 7 is more powerful. Not include the watson on the topic. Please stay on the thread topic not need to derail the conversation. With CPU benchmarks if you need more info just PM me.

Why does it matter what server CPU's put out? Power7 shouldn't be brought up in this thread at all.

 

[Nostremitus]

edit: Kojima said that trailer was current gen, it won't run at 1080p/60fps like that trailer was but the assets are from the PS3/360 version.

Does that mean we can use Dolphin shots to show the power and graphical fidelity of the Wii? After all, it's rendering Wii assets.

If that's the case, let's take a shot of Xenoblade running at a theoretical 2560 × 1440 and 120fps and use it as a comparison to Uncharted 3. Clearly the Wii is more powerful by that reasoning.

Spoiler

It's not.

 

[Sid]

Comparing Bayonetta 1 to Bayonetta 2

Bayo 1:

Bayo 2:

 

[phosphor112]

If Xenoblade is anything to go by, the world in X should be anything but bland and empty.

Can you fly in MGS and go everywhere you can look? Are there giant creatures flying, running and swimming in the world? I guess not, so it's not really a great comparison.

But I can't think of a game that really lets you explore an open world horizontally and vertically, you stay on the ground almost always. So it's not easy to find a direct comparison, the scale in X is just insane.

Scale and the amount is rendering are two different things. Xenoblade's scale shat on GTA4 on a macro level, but GTA4 has much more AI and stuff going on, making the scale larger in a micro level. AI was a lot more robust. I don't see X topping GTA4 or 5 in terms of that detail. Rockstar has been doing this for decades now.

I don't think the MGSV trailer at E3 was current gen, come on. Why would they use the worst looking version to showcase the game, especially at a PS4 focused event?

Kojima specifically said the "next-gen" version of MGS5 will look better than the E3 2013 trailer.

Metal Gear Solid 5: The Phantom Pain's E3 presentation was "more tuned to current generation," Kojima said, in terms of the game's models and textures.

"Once we start going into development for next-generation we're definitely looking for something better than [what] we have shown today," he said. Kojima added that the developer is aiming for a 60 frames per second refresh rate and a higher resolution for the game's Xbox One and PlayStation 4 releases.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/13/4425442/next-gen-metal-gear-solid-5-smartphone-tablet-kojima

 

[69wpm]

A better Bayonetta comparision:

VS

Bayonetta 1 was bland and ugly, not to mention the washed out brownish colors. Bayo 2 has wonderful colouring. The second screenshot is of course from a huge boss fight going on in a big city, not a cut scene.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

Does that mean we can use Dolphin shots to show the power and graphical fidelity of the Wii? After all, it's rendering Wii assets.

If that's the case, let's take a shot of Xenoblade running at 2560 × 1440 and use it as a comparison to Uncharted 3. Clearly the Wii is more powerful by that reasoning.

Spoiler

It's not.

X will probably be 720/30fps, Current gen version of MGSV will be the same.

 

[Nostremitus]

X will probably be 720/30fps, Current gen version of MGSV will be the same.

I'm gonna go with probably not on that one. It'll probably be be 540p upscaled to be honest.(MGSV)

I was just pointing out the absurdity of using a trailer that has the assets running on much more power hardware as a basis of comparison.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

X will probably be 720/30fps, Current gen version of MGSV will be the same.

His point is that the current gen version of MGSV will look nothing like the 1080p/60fps version shown. Not just resolution difference, but AA level, and precision of the lighting/shadows, resolution of textures etc.

 

[phosphor112]

A better Bayonetta comparision:

VS

Bayonetta 1 was bland and ugly, not to mention the washed out brownish colors. Bayo 2 has wonderful colouring. The second screenshot is of course from a huge boss fight going on in a big city, not a cut scene.

Is that a direct grab from Bayo 2? The IQ is PC level MSAA maxed out levels of too high...

 

[Sid]

Bayo 1 had colors,the art style was different though:

 

[69wpm]

Is that a direct grab from Bayo 2? The IQ is PC level MSAA maxed out levels of too high...

Yes, it's one of the official screenshots from E3.

 

[Canis lupus]

I still can't think of one single game on the PS3 or 360 doing as much as X does in terms of poly counts and raw detail while maintaining that scope and draw distance.

GTA V

 

[phosphor112]

Yes, it's one of the official screenshots from E3.

Seems like a bullshot then. AA is too high. Even for PS4/X1, they won't be able to achieve that sort of AA.

 

[Riki]

Yeah, I said that there aren't any games that try to attempt what X is doing(besides JC2). Not because it's impossible, but because they are the only people making games like this.
edit: Kojima said that trailer was current gen, it won't run at 1080p/60fps like that trailer was but the assets are from the PS3/360 version.


Will all that be interconnected or will it be hubs like Xenoblade? There was dinosaurs and shit running around but the world didn't look full to me.

X will be one seemless world with minimal to no loading.
If you watch the trailers there are actually a lot of monsters running around everywhere, but given that the shots are either really zoomed out or really zoomed in it can be hard to tell.

 

[guek]

GTA V
http://www.abload.de/img/untitled-5fbuxm.gif[IMG]
[IMG]http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/190/7/8/gtav1_by_xbulletz-d6coaz1.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]
I personally don't think GTAV looks better than X, especially segments outside of the city in the mountains, desert, etc. I'm willing to bet GTAV will be loaded to the brim with frame drops and screen tearing everywhere too. That said, X doesn't look [I]that[/I] much better.

[quote="phosphor112, post: 75971447"]Seems like a bullshot then. AA is too high. Even for PS4/X1, they won't be able to achieve that sort of AA.[/QUOTE]

There are some direct grabs out there I've seen with a bit of aliasing.

 

[phosphor112]

There are some direct grabs out there I've seen with a bit of aliasing.

Those are likely the real deal then. Not the ones with zero aliasing.

 

[Frodo]

Such a shame the console wars reached this thread. I've been lurking here for a while and we used to have some really interesting discussion going one before this gif festival started.

Unless you want to use your image to point something about the Wii U's GPU, would it be too much to ask for you to post it in another thread?! What is the point of posting a GTAV here in this thread?

/backseatmod

I'm really interested to know if any customization was made on the GPU to help with the lighting in games. Lighting is something I noticed Wii U handles really well. Nintendo Land is a great example and it is a launch game. Pikmin 3 is also superb.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

GTA V

Nver watched any of the GTAV trailers, GOD DAMN.

His point is that the current gen version of MGSV will look nothing like the 1080p/60fps version shown. Not just resolution difference, but AA level, and precision of the lighting/shadows, resolution of textures etc.

I'm gonna go with probably not on that one. It'll probably be be 540p upscaled to be honest.

I was just pointing out the absurdity of using a trailer that has the assets running on much more power hardware as a basis of comparison.

Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just going off of what kojima said.

X will be one seemless world with minimal to no loading.
If you watch the trailers there are actually a lot of monsters running around everywhere, but given that the shots are either really zoomed out or really zoomed in it can be hard to tell.

Okay cool, day one.

 

[Van Owen]

I'm sure Monolithsoft could achieve similar X results on 360.

 

[plank]

PS360 even Wii graphical fidelity in games have improved over time but somehow the WiiU is Maxed out at launch.

 

[Phazon]

I'm sure Monolithsoft could achieve similar X results on 360.

With only less than 512MB RAM and almost no loading times? I don't think so tbh.

 

[Nostremitus]

GTA V

Thank God for smog. Reminds my of a much elegant version of the fog used in N64 games. It saves geometry by not having to render what's obscured. The draw distance is increased without having to actual draw it all or load the textures of what it does. X doesn't do this in the videos thus far. Unless I'm missing something, X is showing a lot more.

 

[Van Owen]

With only less than 512MB RAM and almost no loading times? I don't think so tbh.

Look at what they achieved on Wii though. And look at GTA5.

 

[plank]

Look at what they achieved on Wii though. And look at GTA5.

Yet they can't do more on the WiiU.