Breaking Bad - Season 5, Part 2 - The Final Eight Episodes - Sundays on AMC

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Batigol said:
It would be a boring end to the show if he just went away for life, imo.

I want him to go down all guns blazing. Just go completely off the rails
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This kind of attitude is what basically makes people want to forgive walt. For everything else that can be said about him, he is cool, intelligent, and how he manages to go up against opponents far more powerful than him makes him pretty badass. And you want him to go out like a badass, when that is not at all what needs to happen.

Breaking Bad is not a power fantasy show and it shows the horrible consequences of Walt's actions, cool though they may be. People who like the power fantasy aspect of it want to justify walt's actions so that they can continue to enjoy the fun aspects of being involved in the drug trade without having to deal with the fact that he is destroying lives. To try to make his final moments awesome just for the sake of being awesome is just trying to ignore the terror of what walt is. His end should be appropriate to his character, and his character includes being a cancer to those around him. It shouldn't go out of its way to glorify him for no reason.

And I hate shows that do that. Breaking Bad wouldn't be a tenth of the show that it is if it just tried to make walt into this mary sue where he doesn't have to deal with the ramifications of his terrible behavior like that piece of shit Kratos or half the characters of True Blood. Those kinds of stories are brainless, masturbatory jokes.

I don't have any need to see 'justice' done or anything, like some people in this thread, and would be perfectly fine with walt getting away as long as it works within the narrative right (I doubt that will happen however. If it did, the show would have ended after Walt got out and Hank would never find the book), but to try to delude yourself into thinking Walt actions were morally permissible just because he is also badass is doing a discredit to the brilliant story you are watching.
 
I was thinking that there is zero reason to think that Jesse will ever find out about the Walt/Jane connection. How and why would it ever be brought up?
 
JasonMCG said:
I was thinking that there is zero reason to think that Jesse will ever find out about the Walt/Jane connection. How and why would it ever be brought up?
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I don't know why he would ever tell Jesse about Jane, but there's a few scenarios. Walt has on a few occasions voluntarily given up more information than he had to for whatever reason - his ego, a threat, a power trip. For example, when he wouldn't let Gale take the credit for being Heisenberg, and he steered Hank back in the right direction.

Walt is extremely manipulative, but if the time came when it was a confrontation and the beast in Walt is laid bare, he might well use those bombs for the sheer purpose of incurring menace, terror and rage so that jesse might overreact and make a mistake. There's so many reasons it could happen.

That said, I don't know if the Jane bomb will ever happen... I do have a great feeling Jesse will find out about Brock, though
 
Guess Who said:
Walt never explicitly said he's Heisenberg, but come on, the way he acted implied the hell out of it.
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Seriously, an innocent man wouldn't have told Hank to "Tread lightly" and that he won't live to see trial because the cancer is back. He was smart enough to not admit guilt, but he totally implied that Hank better fuck off or else
 
JasonMCG said:
I was thinking that there is zero reason to think that Jesse will ever find out about the Walt/Jane connection. How and why would it ever be brought up?
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Only way would be for Walt to suddenly feel guilt and confess it to Jesse, wanting him to finally know the truth and redeem himself to an extent. I think that's what will happen in the end, Jesse will be in trouble, Walt will save him, confess and tell him to live his life guilt free as it was all his fault and kill himself with the ricin.
 
Amir0x said:
Going out in a 'blaze of glory' is fine, it's still a punishment.

I also don't care if Walt survives, but if he does survive, it makes no sense he can be free. He'd have to be in jail. No one is going to provide him cover after the crimes he has committed. It's just not realistic he'd be able to hide out for long, considering he has no friends anymore (not a true spoiler ->
"...and he lived happily ever after with Lydia. The end."
) basically.

As long as one of these types of scenarios play out - a logical one borne from consistency of writing - and Walt also suffers in the form of losing his family (since that too is the only thing that makes sense), then the show did its job.



Is that how it works? You say a statement was meant to cause something, then YOU yourself who made that claim go ahead and engage me in debate about that very subject, and then you say "ha ha I was right?" Is that how this works? Holy christ lol
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Yes because you posted a blatant lie stating Walt tried to kill himself and Hank and Bravo for Hank for bringing that up.
 
KMD said:
Yes because you posted a blatant lie stating Walt tried to kill himself and Hank and Bravo for Hank for bringing that up.
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Haha, a blatant lie. You are truly a new form of absurd, you who hilariously misinterprets the show because you can't read even the most obtrusive of signs.

If you knowingly drive someone into an accident in order to stop them from finding a secret out about you, guess what? You don't get the right to say you didn't intend to kill him! You were willing to take that risk that he COULD have died! You'd be prosecuted and thrown in prison if they could prove he did it on purpose.

Seriously, fantasy land with some people. Literally like living on the streets of Disney Land.
 
Veelk said:
This kind of attitude is what basically makes people want to forgive walt. For everything else that can be said about him, he is cool, intelligent, and how he manages to go up against opponents far more powerful than him makes him pretty badass. And you want him to go out like a badass, when that is not at all what needs to happen.

Breaking Bad is not a power fantasy show and it shows the horrible consequences of Walt's actions, cool though they may be. People who like the power fantasy aspect of it want to justify walt's actions so that they can continue to enjoy the fun aspects of being involved in the drug trade without having to deal with the fact that he is destroying lives. To try to make his final moments awesome just for the sake of being awesome is just trying to ignore the terror of what walt is. His end should be appropriate to his character, and his character includes being a cancer to those around him. It shouldn't go out of its way to glorify him for no reason.

And I hate shows that do that. Breaking Bad wouldn't be a tenth of the show that it is if it just tried to make walt into this mary sue where he doesn't have to deal with the ramifications of his terrible behavior like that piece of shit Kratos or half the characters of True Blood. Those kinds of stories are brainless, masturbatory jokes.

I don't have any need to see 'justice' done or anything, like some people in this thread, and would be perfectly fine with walt getting away as long as it works within the narrative right (I doubt that will happen however. If it did, the show would have ended after Walt got out and Hank would never find the book), but to try to delude yourself into thinking Walt actions were morally permissible just because he is also badass is doing a discredit to the brilliant story you are watching.
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Now wait a minute. There's no need to sling mud at the God of War to prove your point. Tread lightly when addressing Kratos young padiwan.
 
A couple new drawings from Francesco Francavilla:

oBTRzZ3.jpg


85zLiaH.jpg
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Veelk said:
People who like the power fantasy aspect of it want to justify walt's actions so that they can continue to enjoy the fun aspects of being involved in the drug trade without having to deal with the fact that he is destroying lives. To try to make his final moments awesome just for the sake of being awesome is just trying to ignore the terror of what walt is.
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This is why I think we'll get one last brutal demonstration of his power and then he'll die - so both factions will get a satisfying ending. But for my money it'll have to be someone he once loved or crossed who kills him. It wouldn't be fair for him to just suicide his way to martyrdom with the ricin.
 
inm8num2 said:
This stuck with me.
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One of my favorite parts of re-watching a Breaking Bad episode is soaking in all the wonderful establishing shots and gorgeous cinematography and color grading. It's just a wonderful show to actually WATCH, visually, separating all the writing and the content of the actual episodes.
 
Amir0x said:
Haha, a blatant lie. You are truly a new form of absurd, you who hilariously misinterprets the show because you can't read even the most obtrusive of signs.

If you knowingly drive someone into an accident in order to stop them from finding a secret out about you, guess what? You don't get the right to say you didn't intend to kill him! You were willing to take that risk that he COULD have died! You'd be prosecuted and thrown in prison if they could prove he did it on purpose.

Seriously, fantasy land with some people. Literally like living on the streets of Disney Land.
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He COULD have died yes, but that wasn't the intention. Your original post states Walt tried to kill himself and Hank! But got daymn that plot got foiled!
 
Soyongdori said:
Do people even realize that Walter didn't admit anything to Hank's accusations? He just warned Hank to back the fuck off. Walter didn't imply or accepted that he is Heisenberg.
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He implied it when he said in regards to his dying from cancer, "In six months you won't have someone to prosecute."
 
KMD said:
He COULD have died yes, but that wasn't the intention. Your original post states Walt tried to kill himself and Hank! But got daymn that plot got foiled!
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His INTENT was to stop Hank, and the action he took suggested that Hank dying was acceptable collateral damage. And that's all that matters. Morally it's indistinguishable from actually causing the accident where death was the only thing on Walt's mind
 
KMD said:
He COULD have died yes, but that wasn't the intention. Your original post states Walt tried to kill himself and Hank! But got daymn that plot got foiled!
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i think the chances of them dying were pretty slim

walt knew what he was doing, he thinks everything through even when time is short to a few seconds
 
Amir0x said:
His INTENT was to stop Hank, and the action he took suggested that Hank dying was acceptable collateral damage. And that's all that matters. Morally it's indistinguishable from actually causing the accident where death was the only thing on Walt's mind
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Walt has also tried to kill himself, Jesse and Todd because he cooked meth with them. Too bad their lab didn't blow up on accident or it would have worked!
 
Amir0x said:
Haha, a blatant lie. You are truly a new form of absurd, you who hilariously misinterprets the show because you can't read even the most obtrusive of signs.

If you knowingly drive someone into an accident in order to stop them from finding a secret out about you, guess what? You don't get the right to say you didn't intend to kill him! You were willing to take that risk that he COULD have died! You'd be prosecuted and thrown in prison if they could prove he did it on purpose.

Seriously, fantasy land with some people. Literally like living on the streets of Disney Land.
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Okay, look. You make a lot of good points and everything, but this simply wasn't what Walt intended. Why the fuck would he? He obviously wants to live, he just didn't want Hank to find the laundromat. If he wanted to kill himself and hank, there are easier ways to do it, before, after and during the crash. He hasn't shown any signs of depression or resentment, and his first thoughts on how to solve the hank problem are never "kill him before he finds out."

What he INTENDED was stopping hank from finding the laundromat. How he applied that intention was to try to ram them off the road, which gave the risk of killing them both (which I don't think was a huge risk because Walt would have seen if there was something in the way and probably turned so they'd crash while remaining as face as poosible. That's actually probably the best indication of his intention, because if his intention was death, it'd be far more reasonable to crash into an oncoming car than go off the road. Much greater chance that way)

Edit: Mistake made. he did crash into another car, but the point still stands if he wanted to kill them, he'd have crashed DIRECTLY into him, not hit them on the side, which is what he did.

I'm not saying this makes it any more morally right. I'm not saying this excuses anything. Hell, you can think that what he did was outright worse than if he had actually attempted to kill them. But as a simple matter of accuracy, his intention was not the murder of his brother in law. He may have been willing to risk it, but it's not what he intended.
 
I wonder if Walt took the Ricin pill for himself.

My theory is that whatever he needs the machine gun for, he expects to be killed or captured and potentially tortured. Even if he makes it out alive, he'll probably die of the cancer which would be painful and demoralizing for a man with his ego.

Maybe he plans to take the pill before he goes on the attack to make sure he dies no matter what the outcome, and on his own terms.
 
The walt/hank car thing is the same as the brock poison thing. Both times walt definitely didn't want them to die but both times he was willing to take the small percent that it COULD happen. Both times as a desperate effort.

MollyWhomp said:
I wonder if Walt took the Ricin pill for himself.

My theory is that whatever he needs the machine gun for, he expects to be killed or captured and potentially tortured. Even if he makes it out alive, he'll probably die of the cancer which would be painful and demoralizing for a man with his ego.

Maybe he plans to take the pill before he goes on the attack to make sure he dies no matter what the outcome, and on his own terms.
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I predicted something similar a while back. One way mission.
 
I've dated enough crazy women over the years to know Walt should be more afraid of Lydia than he ever was of Gus.

I don't even want to guess what her next play is.
 
Veelk said:
Okay, look. You make a lot of good points and everything, but this simply wasn't what Walt intended. Why the fuck would he? He obviously wants to live, he just didn't want Hank to find the laundromat. If he wanted to kill himself and hank, there are easier ways to do it, before, after and during the crash. He hasn't shown any signs of depression or resentment, and his first thoughts on how to solve the hank problem are never "kill him before he finds out."

What he INTENDED was stopping hank from finding the laundromat. How he applied that intention was to try to ram them off the road, which gave the risk of killing them both (which I don't think was a huge risk because Walt would have seen if there was something in the way and probably turned so that they would have an excuse to not go while still remaining safe. That's actually probably the best indication, because if his intention was death, it'd be far more reasonable to crash into an oncoming car than go off the road.

I'm not saying this makes it any more morally right. I'm not saying this excuses anything. Hell, you can think that what he did was outright worse than if he had actually attempted to kill them. But as a simple matter of accuracy, his intention was not the murder of his brother in law. He may have been willing to risk it, but it's not what he intended.
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.

Amir0x said:
His INTENT was to stop Hank, and the action he took suggested that Hank dying was acceptable collateral damage. And that's all that matters. Morally it's indistinguishable from actually causing the accident where death was the only thing on Walt's mind
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The semantics game we're playing is completely worthless. He took an action where he knew and accepted Hank could die, and therefore assumed responsibility for the fact it could happen. It was acceptable damage to Walt, that's how little much he gives a shit. Morally there is no distinction, and at best the only argument can be that there is the tiniest infinitesimal disparity between what was floating in his head at that second. It's the difference between Walt thinking "I AM TURNING THIS CAR TO KILL HANK SO HE WONT FIND OUT ABOUT ME" and "I AM TURNING THIS CAR TO STOP HANK FROM FINDING OUT ABOUT ME AND IF HE DIES SO FUCKING BE IT."

KMD said:
Walt has also tried to kill himself, Jesse and Todd because he cooked meth with them. Too bad their lab didn't blow up on accident or it would have worked!
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More false equivalencies. Sorry, don't really have much to add to such debate dead-ends.
 
Amir0x said:
.



The semantics game we're playing is completely worthless. He took an action where he knowingly knew Hank could die, and therefore assumed responsibility for the fact it could happen. It was acceptable damage to Walt, that's how little much he gives a shit. Morally there is no distinction, and at best the only argument can be that there is the tiniest infinitesimal disparity between what was floating in his head at that second. It's the difference between Walt thinking "I AM TURNING THIS CAR TO KILL HANK SO HE WONT FIND OUT ABOUT ME" and "I AM TURNING THIS CAR TO STOP HANK FROM FINDING OUT ABOUT ME AND IF HE DIES SO FUCKING BE IT."



More false equivalencies. Sorry, don't really have much to add to such debate dead-ends.
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How is that a false equivalency? It's quite well known people die in meth lab accidents. Walt willingly participated in the act of using a meth lab with people. My statement is an exact fucking copy of your statement that Walt tried to kill himself and Hank. Bolded in the quote.
 
Amir0x said:
.



The semantics game we're playing is completely worthless. He took an action where he knew and accepted Hank could die, and therefore assumed responsibility for the fact it could happen. It was acceptable damage to Walt, that's how little much he gives a shit. Morally there is no distinction, and at best the only argument can be that there is the tiniest infinitesimal disparity between what was floating in his head at that second. It's the difference between Walt thinking "I AM TURNING THIS CAR TO KILL HANK SO HE WONT FIND OUT ABOUT ME" and "I AM TURNING THIS CAR TO STOP HANK FROM FINDING OUT ABOUT ME AND IF HE DIES SO FUCKING BE IT."



More false equivalencies. Sorry, don't really have much to add to such debate dead-ends.
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Let's not forget Hank was still in recovery from his injuries.
 
KMD said:
How is that a false equivalency? It's quite well known people die in meth lab accidents. Walt willingly participated in the act of using a meth lab with people. My statement is an exact fucking copy of your statement that Walt tried to kill himself and Hank.
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A brilliant chemist like Walt is in no danger of allowing a lab to explode. Are you seriously trying to say someone intentionally causing a potentially fatal accident - as sappyday mentioned, Hank was also recovering from previous injuries caused by Walt's life - is the same as someone working in a potentially dangerous lab environment if they don't know what they're doing (and of which Walt, Todd and Jesse knewingly accepted what little risk there was, given Walt is too brilliant to allow the lab to die unintentionally. Hank was not willing to be driven into a car crash.)
 
Amir0x said:
The semantics game we're playing is completely worthless. He took an action where he knew and accepted Hank could die, and therefore assumed responsibility for the fact it could happen. It was acceptable damage to Walt, that's how little much he gives a shit. Morally there is no distinction, and at best the only argument can be that there is the tiniest infinitesimal disparity between what was floating in his head at that second. It's the difference between Walt thinking "I AM TURNING THIS CAR TO KILL HANK SO HE WONT FIND OUT ABOUT ME" and "I AM TURNING THIS CAR TO STOP HANK FROM FINDING OUT ABOUT ME AND IF HE DIES SO FUCKING BE IT."
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I'm fine with you considering them to be the moral equivelent, since it stems from a disregard for life for the sake of self serving purpose. I just wanted to be clear we were on the same page about it just for the sake of clear terminology. Intent to kill and Intent to do something with indifference to colletoral are different things (if morally equivalent) and just wanted to clear that up.
 
Clip of the car crash - http://youtu.be/Lx8_-kpWdVo

I seriously doubt Walt really thought that shit through for long enough to be certain that Hank would walk away from it. He needed to do something to protect himself and that was his only option and he just went for it. Like a half second earlier and the oncoming car hits Hank's side rather than the back of the car and potentially kills him right there maybe?
 
lol just lol at people thinking lydia will be able to put together some big violent operation. she a nobody that well likely never see again. also amirox is this some bit you're playing or do you feel the need to post your opinion about walt after every episode? we get it bro.
 
SpinDasher said:
Everyone do yourself a favor and turn on automatic captions, then go to 1:14. I couldn't help but lol.

Amazing fucking scene though, goddamn.
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Haha if you watch the captions when he is punched in the face it says (( owned )) lol

Mr. Blonde said:
also amirox is this some bit you're playing or do you feel the need to post your opinion about walt after every episode? we get it bro.
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Everybody posts repetitive opinions about every character every week. Deal with it, it's a discussion forum. Don't like it, skip the posts. *sunglasses.gif.*
 
Amir0x said:
A brilliant chemist like Walt is in no danger of allowing a lab to explode. Are you seriously trying to say someone intentionally causing a potentially fatal accident - as sappyday mentioned, Hank was also recovering from previous injuries caused by Walt's life - is the same as someone working in a potentially dangerous lab environment if they don't know what they're doing (and of which Walt, Todd and Jesse knewingly accepted what little risk there was, given Walt is too brilliant to allow the lab to die unintentionally. Hank was not willing to be driven into a car crash.)
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If Walt wanted Hank dead, after the crash he would have found a way to finish the job. You're too hung up on details that don't pertain to the argument. Walt wasn't trying to kill Hank and himself in a car crash, he was trying to stop them from going to the laundry, he succeeded.

I admitted that sure, they could have died, but they didn't and it wasn't his intentions.

People everywhere, every day make decisions where an undesirable effect could happen, but what they're wanting is the more desirable effect. Just because risk is accepted doesn't change intentions.
 
Amir0x said:
In fact, I'd say that's partially the point of Jesse's character - a stark contrast between someone who still has some humanity left and someone who does not.
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Reminds me of James Poniewozik's thoughts on Twitter the other day when he was rewatching a couple older episodes:
"This isn't chemistry. This is art." Early conversation between Jesse and Walt defines their entire character contrast through the series. That Jesse can't separate the art/emotion from science/business of meth makes him reckless but also ultimately gives him a conscience. Jesse/Walt dynamic in some ways reminds me of Avon/Stringer, which I am increasingly convinced pretty much explains the world. That is, in Walt and Stringer both, we see that a dispassionate/all-business attitude can sometimes end up far more ruthless.
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Circles already, KMD. Anything to try to convince yourself Walt isn't as completely terrible as every single letter in the script suggests he is. Well, we've run this discussions course.

Cornballer said:
Reminds me of James Poniewozik's thoughts on Twitter the other day when he was rewatching a couple older episodes:
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That's pretty insightful. I love any The Wire comparisons too hehe
 
I'm trying to figure out what exactly discussing the moral implications of actions accomplishes when you ignore the context.
 
Mr. Blonde said:
lol just lol at people thinking lydia will be able to put together some big violent operation. she a nobody that well likely never see again. also amirox is this some bit you're playing or do you feel the need to post your opinion about walt after every episode? we get it bro.
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I HIGHLY doubt we'll never see her again, why would they bring her back for this one episode then make her disappear? That makes absolutely no sense.
 
This has been sticking with me.

tumblr_mrei22AfVE1qe4wtgo1_1280-550x203.jpg


The condition of the house and the ensuing shots of Walter in the mirror showcase what that Ozymandias poem was referring to.
 
Amir0x said:
Circles already, KMD. Anything to try to convince yourself Walt isn't as completely terrible as every single letter in the script suggests he is. Well, we've run this discussions course.



That's pretty insightful. I love any The Wire comparisons too hehe
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Wtf are you talking about? I haven't once voiced an opinion on Walt's character.

That tag suits you.
 
I'm just wondering what the peak of Walt's evil will reach. Will he be willing to kill family for his own hide. For what purpose? He knows he's a dying man. That ego of his...

AUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SUNDAY IS SO FAR AWAY!
NEW EPISODES:
q7eVFf1.gif
 
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