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[NullPointer]

Precisely. If people wanted a repeat of this generation with simply better graphics then the PS4 was right there. I was genuinely excited for something different.

THANKS GAF >=(

Whats the problem here? It still comes in every box, but games and apps that don't require don't need to have it plugged in. Most people will keep it plugged in.

I still don't see them selling a non-Kinect bone unless this one sells far below expectations, but even then it'd be because the device had more potential than application. This way they answer a concern they can't really answer otherwise and give the KinectBox a window of opportunity to shine and gain some positive word of mouth.

 

[Enectic]

You don't charge people first and then offer content sometime down the road. The original Kinect at least launched with Kinectimals, Kinect Adventures, Sports, and Dance Central.

The One is basically asking consumers "here's $100 with of tech, figure out something to do with it while we get on that gaming thing." Cart before the horse and all that. It's a gaming console. Anything that drives up the price should have a killer app that justifies it to consumers. People wouldn't spend $399 on the box alone if the graphics looked exactly like the 360 in 2006, I don't see why they're expected to happily plop down $100 for a peripheral without games.

Many of the launch games use Kinect plus it's very heavily integrated into the UI and function of the console. People will have plenty of use for it.

 

[Nightengale]

Doesn't ps4 have 4.5 gigs and xbox one 5 gigs?

Unsubstantiated rumours, and even if true, GDDR5 > DDR3.

Many of the launch games use Kinect plus it's very heavily integrated into the UI and function of the console. People will have plenty of use for it.

Use of Kinect in an extremely subtle/optional way, which is basically feature for feature's sake. No one buys PS3 for Sixaxis, just as no one buys into Kinect to shake zombies off your body or to shout commands.

And integration into UI and function is not what most people want out of Kinect. Having plenty of use-cases doesn't mean it's something that's desirable.

 

[Tobor]

Good, good.

I'll wait out a price cut and maybe buy a Kinect-less model down the road when they have some games I'm interested in.

 

[Alcander]

Whats the problem here? It still comes in every box, but games and apps that don't require don't need to have it plugged in. Most people will keep it plugged in.

Not a problem, yet (see my post right above that one, fearing the hypothetical no-kinect sku). Though I'm not specifically talking about Kinect, I'm really bummed at most of these reversals -- I was excited to have two very distinct consoles next gen, and I was excited that one was trying some genuinely new ideas.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Precisely. If people wanted a repeat of this generation with simply better graphics then the PS4 was right there. I was genuinely excited for something different.

THANKS GAF >=(

Don't blame GAF, blame Sony for having promoted the PS4 well enough. Things from the XB1 that would only bother people who are dedicated gamers were publicized as a big plus for the PS4.

Or you can blame all the people who didn't preorder the XB1. Pick whatever you want. This isn't on GAF.

 

[famousmortimer]

I don't believe that the 180s are going to fix the core problems of the Xbox One. The failures were designing the system around these things in the first place and not putting the emphasis on gaming. So what we're left with is an underpowered and overpriced console.


I wrote a long essay about this if anyone cares.

 

[Finalizer]

They're pretty much killing the variety one reversal at a time, tho.

Not this crap again.

Look, giving consumers choice is not "killing variety." These changes make the Xbone a more appealing product by giving consumers the option to forego Kinect if they so wish, yet as I'm understanding it, Kinect is still always packed in, so if developers were ever really inclined to use it, they're still guaranteed every Xbone owner has a Kinect somewhere. This change only means that potential Xbone buyers who do not want the device plugged in are given that option.

I just can't understand this mindset of having to keep shitty policies for the sake of "being different from Sony."

 

[Syphon Filter]

I don't believe that the 180s are going to fix the core problems of the Xbox One. The failures were designing the system around these things in the first place and not putting the emphasis on gaming. So what we're left with is an underpowered and overpriced console.


I wrote a long essay about this if anyone cares.

maybe, we have to wait and see how it turns out.

 

[Metfanant]

honestly didnt read the whole thread...but does what the rep said mean that "IR Blasting" hence controlling the cable box doesn't work with kinect not plugged in??

 

[Truespeed]

As predicted by many. The $399 SKU is ready. How many 180's have there been so far? I've lost track.

 

[Alcander]

Don't blame GAF, blame Sony for having promoted the PS4 well enough. Things from the XB1 that would only bother people who are dedicated gamers were publicized as a big plus for the PS4.

Or you can blame all the people who didn't preorder the XB1. Pick whatever you want. This isn't on GAF.

I'm being facetious blaming GAF specifically. The blame falls mostly on MS for not selling it well, but I can't ignore the rabid hate tsunami that The Internet™ devolved into after the announcement as being part of the problem.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

honestly didnt read the whole thread...but does what the rep said mean that "IR Blasting" hence controlling the cable box doesn't work with kinect not plugged in??

Kinect is the IR blaster... so, no, it won't work with Kinect unplugged.

 

[Kyon]

So is this confirmed?

 

[mrklaw]

honestly didnt read the whole thread...but does what the rep said mean that "IR Blasting" hence controlling the cable box doesn't work with kinect not plugged in??

Kinect is the IR blaster... so, no, it won't work with Kinect unplugged.

except you can plug in a separate IR blaster, so even that should work.

 

[Syphon Filter]

So is this confirmed?

Yea

 

[Metfanant]

except you can plug in a separate IR blaster, so even that should work.

thats confirmed?

 

[FullMetalx117]

I was actually looking forward to having a tradition console in the PS4 and one that goes in a completely different direction like the Xbox One. Now it seems like both are the same machine. Guess ill have to flip a coin.

 

[DigitalDevilSummoner]

Or you can blame all the people who didn't preorder the XB1. Pick whatever you want. This isn't on GAF.

Right there. For MS to have made so drastic alterations I think it's safe to assume very disappointing preorder numbers and not simply internet uproar.

And pragmatically, this is the first step to introducing a kinectless bundle.

 

[Bgamer90]

I don't get the "they are killing the uniqueness of the Xbox One" complaints.

The system is still going to have kinect in every box. Therefore more devs that are interested in it will make features for it since everyone has access to it.

I mean, these complaints would make far more sense if MS was releasing an SKU without kinect.

 

[ToyBroker]

except you can plug in a separate IR blaster, so even that should work.

Which costs more money--since it doesn't include the cable.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Many of the launch games use Kinect plus it's very heavily integrated into the UI and function of the console. People will have plenty of use for it.

Most of the launch games use Kinect for optional minigames and voice commands. A killer app would be an experience that could only be done using the peripheral, like Dance Central, Wii Sports, or Guitar Hero.

The UI features are also optional...and wouldn't suddenly go away if there was a kinect-less sku.

 

[Alcander]

I was actually looking forward to having a tradition console in the PS4 and one that goes in a completely different direction like the Xbox One. Now it seems like both are the same machine. Guess ill have to flip a coin.

Yep. Depressing.

 

[Future PhaZe]

They should go 375 or 350 without Kinect, even if they have to sell temporarily at a loss.

 

[ElTorro]

I wrote a long essay about this if anyone cares.

If you have to invent a problem to solve to justify your product; your product shouldn’t exist.

That sums up my feelings about things like Kinect and the Wii U GamePad perfectly.

I don't get why "new" and "different" is equal to "better" and/or "future" to so many people.

 

[Alcander]

Most of the launch games use Kinect for optional minigames and voice commands. A killer app would be an experience that could only be done using the peripheral, like Dance Central, Wii Sports, or Guitar Hero.

The UI features are also optional...and wouldn't suddenly go away if there was a kinect-less sku.

Who do Kinect Sports 2 and Fantasia not count? I guess Fantasia isn't a launch game.

 

[NullPointer]

Yep. Depressing.

There is always the WiiU.

 

[Bgamer90]

And pragmatically, this is the first step to introducing a kinectless bundle.

Which will never happen -- at least not anytime soon.

There's a better chance of the system with kinect being the same price as the PS4 (or cheaper) than for MS to release a kinectless bundle.

Having kinect in every box puts it in a much better position for support that therefore sets up the console as a whole to have more unique selling points vs. competitors.

 

[neptunes]

They should go 375 or 350 without Kinect, even if they have to sell temporarily at a loss.

Price will not be an issue for either console.

System selling software is, does either have them in spades? not sure yet

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Who do Kinect Sports 2 and Fantasia not count? I guess Fantasia isn't a launch game.

Neither is out at launch. Again, a $100 investment for 6 months that launch buyers have to swallow before there is a Kinect game worth playing (unless you like Ubi's shitty dance games).

Guys, let's be realistic. Devs are not lining up to develop AAA Kinect games. Ryse and Crimson Dragon were moved to 100% controller compatibility to salvage sales, despite the fact that Ryse looks like one long waggle QTE. Developers of multiplatform games are content to offer voice commands and a few Easter eggs like the gun shop in Ghost Recon. AA and Indie devs, in as far as they exist in the MS ecosystem, are not lining up to make motion control games, because they want their products to resonate across iOS, PSN, and Steam.

The motion control market as it currently exists is dependent on dance, fitness, and sports games. If there were any big Kinect 3rd party games on the way, we would have seen one by now. It's not a dead end technology, but it's never going to replace a gamepad for traditional games.

 

[Enectic]

Unsubstantiated rumours, and even if true, GDDR5 > DDR3.



Use of Kinect in an extremely subtle/optional way, which is basically feature for feature's sake. No one buys PS3 for Sixaxis, just as no one buys into Kinect to shake zombies off your body or to shout commands.

And integration into UI and function is not what most people want out of Kinect. Having plenty of use-cases doesn't mean it's something that's desirable.

Personally those are the features that I find most exciting. I'm a little wary about completely Kinect based games but integration while using the controller can definitely help lend to a better gaming experience. Additionally the UI integration features are also very exciting...it's what I mostly use the current Kinect for. Comparing it to the Sixaxis is not a very good comparison though as the support it received and actual integration was very minimal.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Which will never happen -- at least not anytime soon.

There's a better chance of the system with kinect being the same price as the PS4 (or cheaper) than for MS to release a kinectless bundle.

Having kinect in every box puts it in a much better position for support that therefore sets up the console as a whole to have more unique selling points vs. competitors.

MS will lose a lot of money if they put a sku with kinect for $399. I can see them releasing one without it for $399 despite what albert said earlier.

 

[gunstarhero]

I don't get the "they are killing the uniqueness of the Xbox One" complaints.

The system is still going to have kinect in every box. Therefore more devs that are interested in it will make features for it since everyone has access to it.

I mean, these complaints would make far more sense if MS was releasing an SKU without kinect.

I think that SKU is well on it's way now.

If its not required, it will never see its full potential. It's just another peripheral now.

 

[BadAss2961]

I was actually looking forward to having a tradition console in the PS4 and one that goes in a completely different direction like the Xbox One. Now it seems like both are the same machine. Guess ill have to flip a coin.

Except one is significantly stronger and cheaper than the other one.

 

[Sean*O]

IR blaster means there will never be a diskinected SKU. Without IR blaster they lose the whole DVR control your cable box angle they are so fond of.

Best move they could make is to drop price of the whole package to $399 and let it ride. They can fucking afford it and if it makes them even slightly competitive next gen then they got off easy.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Neither is out at launch. Again, a $100 investment for 6 months that launch buyers have to swallow before there is a Kinect game worth playing (unless you like Ubi's shitty dance games).

You won't be getting many full motion Kinect games this gen, if that's what you want.

I think Kinect is going to be used as an addition to pretty much every game. Almost all titles will have some form of Kinect functionality. Essentially expect a ton more Better with Kinect games but not so many Kinect-only games.

There might be some interesting stuff from indie games depending how open that stuff is.

 

[NullPointer]

Additionally the UI integration features are also very exciting...it's what I mostly use the current Kinect for.

Its the only thing I'd imagine myself using the Kinect for - voice navigation, video playback, web searches maybe, that kind of stuff.

I'm more worried than excited by the uses they'll find for it in games. It surprised the hell out of me that we got a Halo 4 without shoehorned Kinect support. Will we be able to say the same about Halo 5?

 

[FullMetalx117]

Except one is significantly stronger and cheaper than the other one.

Power isn't everything. PS3 was supposed to be some super computer type machine yet Xbox 360 beat it in almost every multi-platform game and it came one year earlier.

We should let games do the talking when they come out

 

[GavinGT]

Great for the nitpickers, but I'll be leaving mine on.

 

[shinobi602]

So is this confirmed?

Why do people keep asking this? He's the Chief Architect of the console, how much more of a confirmation do you need?

 

[op_ivy]

Neither is out at launch. Again, a $100 investment for 6 months that launch buyers have to swallow before there is a Kinect game worth playing (unless you like Ubi's shitty dance games).

i think (hope) kinect 2.0 won't be used primarily as a wave your arms and body type of experience, but more as a way to extend current AAA/hardcore gaming experiences. i see it more like the introduction of a second analogue stick or rumble. its hard to appreciate just how much it could (will?) add until after the fact.

imagine how cool it would be to be able to lean in CoD simply by leaning your head? in fact, the in game camera could adjust based on lots of different movements. how about peaking over boxes? playing forza and having the car camera match your head movement so you could get the best vantage from the cockpit possible?

i think bundling kinect with every system may allow for experiences like i mentioned that wont be found anywhere else, will impact gaming in a positive meaningful way, and will become the defacto standard moving forward that others will replicate.

well, i hope anyways.

 

[Enectic]

Most of the launch games use Kinect for optional minigames and voice commands. A killer app would be an experience that could only be done using the peripheral, like Dance Central, Wii Sports, or Guitar Hero.

The UI features are also optional...and wouldn't suddenly go away if there was a kinect-less sku.

Still...the use is there. The integration with launch games has not been fully explained and could actually be fairly substantial. Besides (like I said in a previous post) these are the implementations I'm most excited for. I'm a bit wary about completely Kinect based games but to have it add to the experience of controller based gaming could definitely improve the experience. To say that people will have nothing to use their new device for is a bit reaching.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

Well that may depend whether "most people here" are more concerned with shareholders than with their own tastes in games or how they'd like to see gaming develop.

And seeing how each one of these 180s is making the Bone a more flexible platform, inclusive of more consumer uses and scenarios, I'm not sure what the problem is.

More flexible does not mean better. More flexible to remove Kinect entirely does not make developers confident to invest in Kinect games/features. PS2 was more flexible than Xbox in that it made broadband and HDD optional accessories and allowed people to play online with dialup internet. An OG Xbox that made HDD and broadband optional would have been a worse system. It would have been more flexible, but it also would have been worse quality games and online experiences.

Something you're not interested in does not equate to a shitty idea. There are plenty of things I have no interest in that millions of other people love. Why is it bad to make something that caters to women/girls/families/ older men, etc? It's not about satisfying shareholders, it's about satisfying consumers other than the same 150-200M young male consumers you cater to every single generation.

The people who buy Wii, iPad games, Kinect games, etc. want a different experience than what Sony and MS are pushing for next-gen now. Core games do not appeal to them and never will. The game industry does a terrible job serving a wide mainstream consumer compared to TV/Movies/Books/Music industries. Compared to most forms of mainstream entertainment console video games are still extremely unpopular. The Wii made progress in overcoming the failure of the entire industry and now it seems like the industry is regressing backwards and abandoning the push to a wider audience.

Not to be hyperbolic but the take away from this is that Kinect can be easily unbundled, that developers who work on Kinect games and features have reason to start losing confidence in both Microsoft's commitment and consumers willingness to plug in their Kinects. Just imagine how this audience would react if MS began suggesting that they might start selling Xbox without a game controller. To an audience who's main interest are motion control and Kinect it is no different.

I'm sympathetic that MS feels the pressure to compete with Sony on price, but if MS response to the PS2 selling better than OG Xbox had been to remove the HDD and broadband adapter and make them optional I would have howled too. I'm interested in Microsoft's Xbox One vision not interested in a clone of PS4 with worse specs and uglier hardware.

 

[Nightengale]

Personally those are the features that I find most exciting. I'm a little wary about completely Kinect based games but integration while using the controller can definitely help lend to a better gaming experience. Additionally the UI integration features are also very exciting...it's what I mostly use the current Kinect for. Comparing it to the Sixaxis is not a very good comparison though as the support it received and actual integration was very minimal.

Maybe I'm in a bubble, but no one I know enjoys UI navigation with Kinect. At the very least, it's not something we'd drop money to buy.

Sixaxis is indeed not a very good comparison, but my perspective was that improved controller game 'experience' with Kinect... will at most be very subtle, very minimalistic enhancers. It's a hard-sell that varies from person to person, because each game will implement it differently.

 

[gunstarhero]

IR blaster means there will never be a diskinected SKU. Without IR blaster they lose the whole DVR control your cable box angle they are so fond of.

Best move they could make is to drop price of the whole package to $399 and let it ride. They can fucking afford it and if it makes them even slightly competitive next gen then they got off easy.

They were fond of a lot of things - all of which they did a 180 on die to various reasons.

It seems like MS lost some nerve and is doing a lot of back peddling. They know they can out spend Sony in marketing, so all they need now is to be on a more equal playing field. They also are coming out of last gen seen by many as the winner between the 2.

Sucks for gamers tho - would have preferred the 2 companies take far different paths as intended. Far less exciting now.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Wow - now it just needs to play PS4 games and I'm in! ;-)




I agree - it would have been far more interesting if the stuck to their guns. Now we have practically the same shit on both sides of the fence.

Spoiler

why would you want downgraded graphics and frame rates with the ps4 games?

Spoiler

oh snap

 

[Bgamer90]

If its not required, it will never see its full potential. It's just another peripheral now.

I dont get this... they just simply removed the requirement for it to be connected at all times. If people who don't have it connected at all times want to use it, they will be able to connect it back.

The potential is still exactly the same since kinect is still coming in every box.

 

[gunstarhero]

Spoiler

why would you want downgraded graphics and frame rates with the ps4 games?

Spoiler

oh snap

Lol

 

[RukusProvider]

As long as it comes with each unit sold I'm fine.

I'm seriously hoping that this is just lip service for the tin foil hat crew and the experience without Kinect is poor.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I dont get this... they just simply removed the requirement for it to be connected at all times. If people who don't have it connected at all times want to use it, they will be able to connect it back.

The potential is still exactly the same since kinect is still coming in every box.

That's the thing, MS has always been adamant that you could turn it off. The only difference now is that you can move it out of the way. None of the console features have ever required Kinect, from the first showing.