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[Boss Doggie]

It makes me wonder if the people online only know about feminism as "those silly women spouting non-sense about mistreating women" or the variety of "they want to cut my balls!"

Was its historical connotations lost through people, like how it gave suffrage to women or to be known as a person than property? It seems like people only see them through the eyes of either the extremists, through the actual chauvinists, or through fellow uneducated people.

The internet likes to trivialize a lot of stuff - hell just look at the issues in video games regarding that. I guess you could argue that the audience themselves are the cause of why feminism isn't really understood, but still, you'd think they'd do some research.

 

[GK86]

If I learned anything from the internet, it is that it doesn't understand anything.

 

[Mesoian]

If I learned anything from the internet, it is that it doesn't understand anything.

We're done here.

 

[Wallach]

The internet is not a person, and does not have an opinion.

 

[royalan]

Depends on which internet you look in.

 

[NoRéN]

If I learned anything from the internet, it is that it doesn't understand anything.

yup.

The internet - Thinks it knows everything yet understands nothing.

 

[Boss Doggie]

If I learned anything from the internet, it is that it doesn't understand anything.

yup.

The internet - Thinks it knows everything yet understands nothing.

It's kinda scary how a group of like-minded individuals who know nothing about a subject can cause a ruckus.

 

[BocoDragon]

Its a good question, and the answer is no.

 

[TUSR]

Im from the internet, and no I do not.

 

[UltimaPooh]

If by internet you mean internet commentators that post without their identity known.

Yes a vast majority do not know what feminism is.

They also don't know a lot of other things.

 

[squidyj]

yup.

The internet - Thinks it knows everything yet understands nothing.

but... you're part of the internet.

 

[Kuroyume]

The internet is not a person, and does not have an opinion.

Good luck trying to explain that to the op or any of the other posters. May as well be talking to a cucumber.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Also I'm baffled at how arguments are formed. "Well, I know this girl and she's fine with how we treat her!" is the most daft thing i have heard.

Depends on which internet you look in.

Sometimes even it can get misinterpret.

 

[eastmen]

It makes me wonder if the people online only know about feminism as "those silly women spouting non-sense about mistreating women" or the variety of "they want to cut my balls!"

Was its historical connotations lost through people, like how it gave suffrage to women or to be known as a person than property? It seems like people only see them through the eyes of either the extremists, through the actual chauvinists, or through fellow uneducated people.

The internet likes to trivialize a lot of stuff - hell just look at the issues in video games regarding that. I guess you could argue that the audience themselves are the cause of why feminism isn't really understood, but still, you'd think they'd do some research.

I as a male really don't see modern feminism as making sense .

I see woman becoming more and more the bread winners , I see women controlling more and more of house hold income , I see women graduating college at a higher rate than males . I also see women having greater rights in family court. The main things I see still existing is the wage gap but even that seems to be decreasing .

I think we have gone to far off the mark and now we might have to start correcting the other way.

 

[GurgleBot20]

I as a male really don't see modern feminism as making sense .

I see woman becoming more and more the bread winners , I see women controlling more and more of house hold income , I see women graduating college at a higher rate than males . I also see women having greater rights in family court. The main things I see still existing is the wage gap but even that seems to be decreasing .

I think we have gone to far off the mark and now we might have to start correcting the other way.

And where exactly do you see that at?

 

[Secret Fawful]

How many PEOPLE really understand feminism? How many see it as a personal attack on them? It's not just the internet. That problem is universal.

 

[hateradio]

Yes, the whole internet doesn't understand internet. I mean feminism.

 

[ReiGun]

In general? Nope. The internet doesn't understand most things.

However, you can find intelligent discussion on the topic if you know where to look. Shame you have to do legwork for good talk when the stupid is so easy to find, but eh.

 

[BocoDragon]

I as a male really don't see modern feminism as making sense .

I see woman becoming more and more the bread winners , I see women controlling more and more of house hold income , I see women graduating college at a higher rate than males . I also see women having greater rights in family court. The main things I see still existing is the wage gap but even that seems to be decreasing .

I think we have gone to far off the mark and now we might have to start correcting the other way.

I actually understand this perspective and I think it's fair to say that in many areas, woman have gained the upper hand... Something that many feminists refuse to admit.


However, in the long view of history, society has just come out of millennia of patriarchical society (because of things like male armies being the backbone of monarchical power, and women being locked down to ensure patrilineal inheritance).. And there are a lot of ideas about what women are, what they are capable of, and what women are allowed to do... and it remains an unnatural state of affairs that could still use some correction.

Feminism serves an important purpose... Even if we needn't heed all arguments just because they come under the feminist umbrella.

 

[User 100115]

How many PEOPLE really understand feminism? How many see it as a personal attack on them? It's not just the internet. That problem is universal.

Pretty much this. With more women becoming interested in 'male dominated' things like video games, young men are having more and more 'boys club' issues, if you know what I mean. Girls talking about refrigerator women in video games is instantly an attack on something they love, not a critique of media in general and how it treats women.

As for feminism not making sense, people are going to see the issues that affect them. So obviously some men will only see the gradual gains and the effect on them, not what still needs to be done.

 

[FZZ]

Sometimes it seems like feminists don't understand feminism.

 

[Devolution]

I actually understand this perspective and I think it's fair to say that in many areas, woman have gained the upper hand... Something that many feminists refuse to admit.


However, in the long view of history, society has just come out of millennia of patriarchical society (because of things like male armies being the backbone of monarchical power, and women being locked down to ensure patrilineal inheritance).. And there are a lot of ideas about what women are, what they are capable of, and what women are allowed to do... and it remains an unnatural state of affairs that could still use some correction.

Feminism serves an important purpose... Even if we needn't heed all arguments just because they come under the feminist umbrella.

Many areas? Oh I must have woken up in a country where they aren't fired for being pregnant, clinics aren't being shut down and sexual harassment and rape just suddenly vanished.

 

[Race to be King]

I as a male really don't see modern feminism as making sense .

I see woman becoming more and more the bread winners , I see women controlling more and more of house hold income , I see women graduating college at a higher rate than males . I also see women having greater rights in family court. The main things I see still existing is the wage gap but even that seems to be decreasing .

I think we have gone to far off the mark and now we might have to start correcting the other way.

I see. As a man, you see certain women in Western society succeeding where, a few years ago, they would have failed and you conclude that it's time to stamp out feminism now. Hmm.

 

[Earthpainting]

While I understand what you're trying to get at, and to a certain extent even agree, I don't think it's fair to talk about "the internet" in such a broad sense.

The most common type of clashing with feminism I see online is in the form of people getting insecure and going on the defensive. I don't like to use the word "ignorance" for these types of things, as it directly contributes to those people feeling threatened. You see this with racism and homophobia a lot too. Something seemingly innocent "that everybody does" turns out to be pretty questionable in acceptability. People start to re-evaluate their (circle's) beliefs or actions and have a moment of vulnerability where they can either be educated or double down on their ideas. If they feel threatened, the jump go going on the defensive is quickly made.

The bright side is that I feel like these people can change. You just have to be a bit patient, even if you have to explain something again for the fiftieth time in a thread.

 

[Goodlife]

rape just suddenly vanished.

Is rape a feminist thing though?

Thought rape, like murder, is a "there are some complete cunts in the world" kind of thing.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I personally don't know much about it, but I try to listen and learn.

It's sad how frequently the very idea seems so frightening to some people.

 

[ivysaur12]

If I learned anything from the internet, it is that it doesn't understand anything.

Boom. Done. Love it.

 

[eastmen]

I actually understand this perspective and I think it's fair to say that in many areas, woman have gained the upper hand... Something that many feminists refuse to admit.


However, in the long view of history, society has just come out of millennia of patriarchical society (because of things like male armies being the backbone of monarchical power, and women being locked down to ensure patrilineal inheritance).. And there are a lot of ideas about what women are, what they are capable of, and what women are allowed to do... and it remains an unnatural state of affairs that could still use some correction.

Feminism serves an important purpose... Even if we needn't heed all arguments just because they come under the feminist umbrella.

Not sure what history has to do with now. I'm sure everyone can look back 200 years or 800 years and understand why feminism became a movement .

Its just that it isn't really valid now.


Another poster responded to you and pointed out Rape... happens to men too and in a way is a bigger issue for men since it goes under reported while there are great support structures and charitys to help female rape victims (rape is still horrible for anyone who ha suffered from such an act). Sexual harassment which of course happens to men too and with women having a higher graduating rate from college will only happen more and more to men. We also have laws for both men and women to seek lawful restitution for it. Then of course clinics for abortions but they fail to mention that when it comes to the life of a man's child before birth they don't have much say , watch the woman choose to abort or pay for a child for 18 years neither are choices for men.

Times change and like I said , if balance or equality is what feminism / suffrage was originaly about its no longer just about that as its swinging the other way now.

 

[User 100115]

Is rape a feminist thing though?

Thought rape, like murder, is a "there are some complete cunts in the world" kind of thing.

It's actually more the fact that unlike murder, when someone is raped our justice system in most cases fails them completely.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Boom. Done. Love it.

First post. /thread. Nailed it.

 

[BocoDragon]

Many areas? Oh I must have woken up in a country where they aren't fired for being pregnant, clinics aren't being shut down and sexual harassment and rape just suddenly vanished.

I'm not American for one thing. What society are we talking about here? The balance is different depending on what culture we are looking at.

This is a world where if you divorce, the money goes to women. The kids go to women. Most college graduates are women. Most of society is highly aware of women's issues, and communities rally around women in need (men are presumed to be self sufficient and if they arent? weak). Women have more freedom of dress. Women are allowed to express their feelings without being thought of as weak.

This is inequality.. and it doesn't just mean that everything is worse for women than it is for men. I assume feminism seeks to correct it.

Not sure what history has to do with now. I'm sure everyone can look back 200 years or 800 years and understand why feminism became a movement .

Its just that it isn't really valid now.

It is valid in the sense that they way we view women and women's issues, and how we value them, has been shaped by history. It's still here, and deserves a certain measure of correction.

 

[Goodlife]

Rape is often a control thing and for many men it is a symptom of the idea that they deserve sex.

But that goes back to the fact there are cunts in the world thing and they happen to be men.

 

[Goodlife]

It's actually more the fact that unlike murder, when someone is raped our justice system in most cases fails them completely.

Prosecution of rape needs to be sorted out, to protect everyone better.

 

[mrhGB]

Man haters who only want to be equal when it suits them - The Internet

 

[MisterHero]

No one will learn anything if the dialogue keeps getting turned to antagonistic crap said by unqualified bystanders.

TV newsmedia does it too. It's just faster on the internet.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I'm not American for one thing. What society are we talking about here? The balance is different depending on what culture we are looking at.

This is a world where if you divorce, the money goes to women. The kids go to women. Most college graduates are women. Most of society is highly aware of women's issues, and communities rally around women in need (men are presumed to be self sufficient and if they arent? weak). Women have more freedom of dress. Women are allowed to express their feelings without being thought of as weak.

This is inequality.. and it doesn't just mean that everything is worse for women than it is for men. I assume feminism seeks to correct it.

Most college graduates are women, and yet women make less than men! How odd!

 

[Goody]

If I learned anything from the internet, it is that it doesn't understand anything.

Funny how there are already plenty of posts after this one that completely mirror this sentiment.

 

[reggie]

It's actually more the fact that unlike murder, when someone is raped our justice system in most cases fails them completely.

Like when someone even so much as gets accused of rape and has their whole life destroyed?

 

[User 100115]

But that goes back to the fact there are cunts in the world thing and they happen to be men.

Again, it's really more the way the justice system treats rape victims than the fact that there 'are cunts in the world'. If someone is murdered, all the evidence is processed in a timely manner. When someone is raped, there's a good chance they won't even process the rape kit. Or make the victim pay for the rape kit. Which might be a reason why rape convictions are so rare.

Edit:

Like when someone even so much as gets accused of rape and has their whole life destroyed?

Which is why it's a good thing false reports are rare too.

 

[eastmen]

Or it could go back to the philosophy that for many men women are pieces of meat for sex. Hence, y'know, feminism. Female empowerment and all Thad so that women can feel they are above that. But let's not acknowledge that. It is hard to accentuate until some guys stare at you for minutes at a time like you're some tasty morsel, sometimes completely self aware, not giving a fuck.

And women don't stare at hot guys like they are a piece of meat ?

Ever go see the lines for twilight on opening night ? There were 40 year old women with children that were drolling over the wolf guy who wasn't even 18 at the time.

Having sister a few years older than I , for every Kathy Ireland poster I had she had a mark Walberg underwear poster.

 

[Devolution]

Again, it's really more the way the justice system treats rape victims than the fact that there 'are cunts in the world'. If someone is murdered, all the evidence is processed in a timely manner. When someone is raped, there's a good chance they won't even process the rape kit. Or make the victim pay for the rape kit. Which might be a reason why rape convictions are so rare.

What did you wear? Why did you drink? How many sexual partners have you had?

“If you wouldn’t have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you."

God forbid you go to a bar!

And women don't stare at hot guys like they are a piece of meat ?

Ever go see the lines for twilight on opening night ? There were 40 year old women with children that were drolling over the wolf guy who wasn't even 18 at the time.

Having sister a few years older than I , for every Kathy Ireland poster I had she had a mark Walberg underwear poster.

Twilight Defense. :lol

 

[Videoneon]

I as a male really don't see modern feminism as making sense .

I see woman becoming more and more the bread winners , I see women controlling more and more of house hold income , I see women graduating college at a higher rate than males . I also see women having greater rights in family court. The main things I see still existing is the wage gap but even that seems to be decreasing .

I think we have gone to far off the mark and now we might have to start correcting the other way.

The other way?

Where's the history of male disenfranchisement in the West? Did you know about women getting shafted in the Declaration of Independence and Poor Richard's Almanac? In the 19th century in America, women couldn't own property, vote, weren't entitled to their own wages, were told to be patriotic, wear certain clothing, earned much less than men, and were repeatedly hit with messages proclaiming the dominion of men and the necessity of women to be subservient.

I think other thing about feminism is, yes it's about egalitarianism, but the other ultimate goal, so to speak, is to eliminate thinking that women, or any sex, is inferior to another. It's a symptom of ingrained patriarchy throughout history. It's not just about the concrete things. Eliminating ways of thinking takes time, but it is a goal nonetheless.

And women don't stare at hot guys like they are a piece of meat ?

Ever go see the lines for twilight on opening night ? There were 40 year old women with children that were drolling over the wolf guy who wasn't even 18 at the time.

No it's not about inhibiting sexual liberation or having interest in hot guys or girls or whatever. There's a point where thinking someone is attractive crosses a line into objectification. When you have a society that advertises TV's and cars with hott chixx, one gets suspicious. commercialization of sex creates standards of beauty, creates social messaging, creates strata of beauty ranking. Creates competition that is rough for women, standards that barely anyone can live up to (though some societal stuff applies to everyone of course, like the expectation of "success" and inequal opportunity)

 

[Goody]

I would really like to know how certain posters in this thread define feminism and how it works in society.

 

[reggie]

Which is why it's a good thing false reports are rare too.

Oh, my bad, I guess we should throw out innocent until proven guilty then.

 

[BocoDragon]

Most college graduates are women, and yet women make less than men! How odd!

That's a good point and I agree.. And that's why I think feminism is needed. The money is in the hands of males and they tend to value male traits in the power structures that deal in that money.

But it's almost a separate issue to what I was getting at: Universities are becoming places that aren't conducive to male graduates... In much the same way as the business world is not as conducive to female bread winning.

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

Does feminism understand the Internet?

Dick city.

 

[Vermillion]

How many PEOPLE really understand feminism? How many see it as a personal attack on them? It's not just the internet. That problem is universal.

This. Only some 20-some percent of people even identify as feminist in the real life, and I know many a woman with anti-feminist views. I've said it before, but the internet is only representative of real life when they espouse views you guys might consider bad.

 

[User 100115]

Oh, my bad, I guess we should throw out innocent until proven guilty then.

Cause that's exactly what I said?

I am sure people who are accused of murder have it bad too.

 

[Derwind]

Feminism is a complex topic, I'd say the internet has levels and brackets of understanding... admittedly I'm not very high up in that ladder but I'm learning. =D

If I learned anything from the internet, it is that it doesn't understand anything.

First post. Its like you're in my brain.

 

[eastmen]

It is valid in the sense that they way we view women and women's issues, and how we value them, has been shaped by history. It's still here, and deserves a certain measure of correction.

How so , what does medevil Europe shape a young boys view of women when his mother is a college graduate and perhaps the bread winner of the family ? Or when the mother controls the house hold budget ?

If anything the pop culture of the last 20 years or so is going to teach him that men are big man children who play with toys and have man caves while women are smart and sophisticated . The most popular childrens series of the last decade or so depicts one male character as having skills and power past down to him and he succeeds because of what others have set in motion for him , the other male character is there for comedic purpose and the women is the one who succeeds in school by her own hard work.

Mabye its not so much that feminism isn't needed anymore as that we need male suffrage or are fast approaching the need.