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[Devolution]

I've seen this sort of number before, but I find it hard to believe. It's an absurdly high percentage of people to have been raped, and I hope it's wrong. That said, I'm not sure if that is proper rape, or a wider net including things like inappropriate touching.

Going by my experience I know several rape victims of both genders. I consider rape a big problem.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Just look at how its pushed in this thread. I wouldn't want to listen to most of these people talk about the issue. It boils down to Men bad rapists , Women victims , women need protection. Men bad rapists.

So feminism can actually do more harm than good in this instance.

what thread are you reading? Where is anyone saying 'derp men bad rapists', outside an invention in your own mind?

No, this is why these thread suck ass, and this is why 'feminism on the internet' sucks ass because the conversation can't even get off the ground.

*pants and chews a bone*

 

[Devolution]

what thread are you reading? Where is anyone saying 'derp men bad rapists', outside an invention in your own mind?

No, this is why these thread suck ass, and this is why 'feminism on the internet' sucks ass because the conversation can't even get off the ground.

Yeah fighting ghosts and straw (wo)men basically makes us stuck on like "is feminism even necessary? is it possibly evil?"

I can't.

 

[Deified Data]

If you were to go on the internet and search for an informed, comprehensive view on feminism you'd find one. So yes, the internet knows about feminism. A lot of insecure men and self-loathing women just like to obfuscate stupidity.

 

[Jarate]

Considering that men are afraid to report violent crimes because they might be seen as 'weak' or 'woman like', it's very much a feminist issue.

I dont think you can make that statement without any proof whatsoever
Theres a whole slew of reasons why men might not report violent crime, ranging from "snitching is bad" culture, to an acceptance that a fight is just something that happens, to even something as simple as being lazy.

Also, even if it was true that the person felt weak, that doesnt always equate to woman like.

There is a lot of sexism and shit out there, but please dont spread bullshit

 

[Trey]

The Internet is not a singular, discrete entity. Broaden your horizons.

 

[User 100115]

I dont think you can make that statement without any proof whatsoever
Theres a whole slew of reasons why men might not report violent crime, ranging from "snitching is bad" culture, to an acceptance that a fight is just something that happens, to even something as simple as being lazy.

Also, even if it was true that the person felt weak, that doesnt always equate to woman like.

There is a lot of sexism and shit out there, but please dont spread bullshit

Since we are talking about rape in general, that's generally what I was talking about. And since a ton of people refer to prison rape as 'making someone your bitch', yeah, the connection is there. There are people that even believe that a man can't be raped by a woman, it's disgusting.

 

[eastmen]

what thread are you reading? Where is anyone saying 'derp men bad rapists', outside an invention in your own mind?

No, this is why these thread suck ass, and this is why 'feminism on the internet' sucks ass because the conversation can't even get off the ground.

*pants and chews a bone*

This one .


In this thread we have people posting that men rape women to feal powerful

But then when men get raped its a problem because they don't want to feel/seem weak like a woman.

See women are the victim even when a man is raped.

Now perhaps its not how these people wanted their posts to come across , but its certainly how they are read .



At the end of the day there are issues on both sides but we can never truly be equal. No set of laws or movements will do that.

 

[Jarate]

Since we are talking about rape in general, that's generally what I was talking about. And since a ton of people refer to prison rape as 'making someone your bitch', yeah, the connection is there. There are people that even believe that a man can't be raped by a woman, it's disgusting.

I apologize, I thought you meant all violent crime

My b

 

[freenudemacusers]

In this thread we have people posting that men rape women to feal powerful

But then when men get raped its a problem because they don't want to feel/seem weak like a woman.

See women are the victim even when a man is raped.

Now perhaps its not how these people wanted their posts to come across , but its certainly how they are read .

..What? I have zero idea how you came to that conclusion. Sincerely.

Please watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEKWlA1UhvE

And read this:

http://www.svfreenyc.org/survivors_factsheet_38.html

Another major concern facing male rape victims is society's belief that men should be able to protect themselves and, therefore, it is somehow their fault that they were raped. The experience of a rape may affect gay and heterosexual men differently. Most rape counselors point out that gay men have difficulties in their sexual and emotional relationships with other men and think that the assault occurred because they are gay, whereas straight men often begin to question their sexual identity and are more disturbed by the sexual aspect of the assault than the violence involved (Brochman, 1991).

 

[duckroll]

This one .


In this thread we have people posting that men rape women to feal powerful

But then when men get raped its a problem because they don't want to feel/seem weak like a woman.

See women are the victim even when a man is raped.

Now perhaps its not how these people wanted their posts to come across , but its certainly how they are read .



At the end of the day there are issues on both sides but we can never truly be equal. No set of laws or movements will do that.

I think a lot of it is you seeing what you want to see though. It's possible to have a discussion with people bringing up points and talking about their perspective without having a cynical view where you think everything is some agenda against your personal position in society, when often that's not the case. Taking a step back and understanding the perspective other people come from broadens your outlook on life and taking a less aggressive approach against views you don't share also makes for healthier discussion.

 

[Race to be King]

They should perhaps start their own suffrage campaign to become free like the one started in the united states.

But I'm strickly talking about in my own country because a lot of the countries you list have a whole slew of other problems that also need to be solved and would likely need a separation of church from state there.

Holy crap, seriously? You actually think we should ignore women in the Middle East and Africa (I didn't list any countries) and wait for them to drag themselves out of oppression?

If they get shot like Malala Yousafzai, is that just part of the process?

FGM also happens in the USA and Europe, and people don't even know about it.

 

[Soodanim]

Sexual assault is 1 in 3. Rape is 1 in 6.

Going by my experience I know several rape victims of both genders. I consider rape a big problem.

That's...scary. I don't like this.

I checked it up, and RAINN says 1 in 6 is attempted or completed rape. That's not much of a consolation, just wanted to share the accurate statistic.

I'm in the UK and not in America, but I can't imagine it's the that different here. Which means that of the people I work with, at least 6 bring female, the chances are that...

Fuck this planet.

 

[Devolution]

That's...scary. I don't like this.

I checked it up, and RAINN says 1 in 6 is attempted or completed rape. That's not much of a consolation, just wanted to share the accurate statistic.

I'm in the UK and not in America, but I can't imagine it's the that different here. Which means that of the people I work with, at least 6 bring female, the chances are that...

Fuck this planet.

There's a chance you know some male rape victims too. They're just a lot less likely to come forward. The male victims I know were assaulted as children.

 

[eastmen]

I think a lot of it is you seeing what you want to see though. It's possible to have a discussion with people bringing up points and talking about their perspective without having a cynical view where you think everything is some agenda against your personal position in society, when often that's not the case. Taking a step back and understanding the perspective other people come from broadens your outlook on life and taking a less aggressive approach against views you don't share also makes for healthier discussion.

I can understand that. I'm just giving an example of a posts in this thread that come across as anti men so to speak and why people may not understand feminism or even want to understand it.

As I said that may not have been how those people wanted their posts interpreted but its how they come across in reading.

Like I said before , there are issues that are presented as feminist causes that shouldn't be. They should be an equal cause as it would actually get more men involved and would help male victims out.

I have a friend who was raped. He tried to go to group sessions as another friend of ours told us how it helped her when she was raped. But he wasn't allowed in since it would make the women in the group uncomfortable. There were no groups for males that he could go to. This is because of the postioning of the issue.

I don't believe I'm persecuted towards but after the liberation of females there has certainly be a huge change for men. Some are not very positive and get very little attention

 

[User 100115]

There's a chance you know some male rape victims too. They're just a lot less likely to come forward. The male victims I know were assaulted as children.

Yep. There is at least one male victim of rape that has posted about it on this forum, and several women (3 at least, I think) have as well. Rape is scary common.

I can understand that. I'm just giving an example of a posts in this thread that come across as anti men so to speak and why people may not understand feminism or even want to understand it.

As I said that may not have been how those people wanted their posts interpreted but its how they come across in reading.

Like I said before , there are issues that are presented as feminist causes that shouldn't be. They should be an equal cause as it would actually get more men involved and would help male victims out.

I have a friend who was raped. He tried to go to group sessions as another friend of ours told us how it helped her when she was raped. But he wasn't allowed in since it would make the women in the group uncomfortable. There were no groups for males that he could go to. This is because of the postioning of the issue.

I don't believe I'm persecuted towards but after the liberation of females there has certainly be a huge change for men. Some are not very positive and get very little attention

It is a problem. Men should be comfortable with coming forward and reporting a rape, and so should women. But the way the justice system treats them is horrible. "Men can't be raped by women." and "Male on male rape is gay." etc.

Also, before I was asked why rape is a feminist issues, I wasn't really using gendered language in my posts. "Victim" and "accused" and such. I was in no way attacking men. I am not sure where you got that from.

 

[Famassu]

Feminism is to sexists like what islam or affirmative action is to a lot of "I'm not a racists, but..." racists.

 

[eastmen]

Holy crap, seriously? You actually think we should ignore women in the Middle East and Africa (I didn't list any countries) and wait for them to drag themselves out of oppression?

If they get shot like Malala Yousafzai, is that just part of the process?

FGM also happens in the USA and Europe, and people don't even know about it.

A lot of countries in the middle east were quite liberal and women had lots of rights before the united states installed their own dictators in that area and allowed a regression and the rise of islam in those area's .

Look at woman's suffrage in Iran for instance.

http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Fall06/Sanam/timeline.html

They had the right to vote , they had maternity leave , they had divorce. Then Islamic leaders entered and there were a regression until they fought back and made ground again.

http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Fall06/Sanam/timeline.html


Its like this in many middle eastern countries and some sadly never bounced back. But I'm not sure what something like the slut walk will do to help those women.

Please tell me what feminists in the united states are doing to give women in the middle east more rights ?

 

[Timedog]

This one .


In this thread we have people posting that men rape women to feal powerful

Is this not true? If you believe that it is not true, then please present an actual argument or otherwise try to illustrate your position.

But then when men get raped its a problem because they don't want to feel/seem weak like a woman.

Did feminists just make this idea of "being someone's bitch" up out of thin air?--Or is it repeated constantly in prison by non-feminists, in popular media by non-feminists, and by non-feminist men and women in general?

And again, you're not actually presenting an argument here.

See women are the victim even when a man is raped.

Please present an actual argument otherwise it comes off as whining. ^^^

 

[Famassu]

Please tell me what feminists in the united states are doing to give women in the middle east more rights ?

I'm sure it's not exclusively feminists, but I personally donate to all kinds of "help girls/women get education" causes, because that's one of the easiest & best ways to improve not only women's stature in less developed countries but it has other positive effects as well.

 

[JohnDoe]

Its like this in many middle eastern countries and some sadly never bounced back. But I'm not sure what something like the slut walk will do to help those women.

Please tell me what feminists in the united states are doing to give women in the middle east more rights ?

Feminism has several approaches to it, it's not exactly a unified movement. And idk why the slut walk is bothering you, that was about something a US police officer said iirc. Though there might have been multiple ones.
And what the US government did in the middle east wasn't supported by the feminist movement so you brought it up without any reason.

 

[Race to be King]

A lot of countries in the middle east were quite liberal and women had lots of rights before the united states installed their own dictators in that area and allowed a regression and the rise of islam in those area's .

Look at woman's suffrage in Iran for instance.

http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Fall06/Sanam/timeline.html

They had the right to vote , they had maternity leave , they had divorce. Then Islamic leaders entered and there were a regression until they fought back and made ground again.

http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Fall06/Sanam/timeline.html


Its like this in many middle eastern countries and some sadly never bounced back. But I'm not sure what something like the slut walk will do to help those women.

Please tell me what feminists in the united states are doing to give women in the middle east more rights ?

There are lots of organisations - Ashiana and IKWRO are two based in the UK (I'm British so I can't speak for feminists in the United States).

I don't think the SlutWalk is meant to address the rights of women in the Middle East specifically - except that, like any women, they should not be blamed if they are raped. Feminism isn't just one big movement - it's made up of smaller groups and organisations that focus on specific issues.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Ignoring the rest of this page on account of every eastmen post getting at least three replies each...

What I don't get about feminism is why it's limited to females. Equality for everyone seems like the better route to me.

Yeah I'm gonna venture a guess that what you don't get about feminism is that one of its main aims is "equality for everyone".

 

[Soodanim]

Ignoring the rest of this page on account of every eastmen post getting at least three replies each...



Yeah I'm gonna venture a guess that what you don't get about feminism is that one of its main aims is "equality for everyone".

Nothing I have ever read claims that feminism wants equality for everyone, but if that is indeed true then fair play to the cause, however inaccurate the name.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Nothing I have ever read claims that feminism wants equality for everyone

No disrespect meant, but you're going to need to start reading more things.

 

[Mindwipe]

It makes me wonder if the people online only know about feminism as "those silly women spouting non-sense about mistreating women" or the variety of "they want to cut my balls!"

Was its historical connotations lost through people, like how it gave suffrage to women or to be known as a person than property? It seems like people only see them through the eyes of either the extremists, through the actual chauvinists, or through fellow uneducated people.

The internet likes to trivialize a lot of stuff - hell just look at the issues in video games regarding that. I guess you could argue that the audience themselves are the cause of why feminism isn't really understood, but still, you'd think they'd do some research.

Feminism isn't understood because it's impossible to understand, as there isn't a single coherent meaning of what it actually means.

It's a word claimed by a great many disparate groups, many with completely contradictory ideological views, that tells you very little about people's beliefs.

For collective society to not understand what feminism means is an entire coherent reading of the situation.

It's time to stop using the word, and instead describe your actual positions.

 

[Devolution]

It's seriously just a plot to subvert the male gender, kill the inferior ones, put the rest in cages for breeding. I know. We have secret cabals where we instruct women how to brainwash people that it's really all about gender equality. But the truth of the matter is we won't be happy till we eat your hearts and dance naked under the goddess moon being warmed by the fire as our bras turn to ash.

 

[Timedog]

It's seriously just a plot to subvert the male gender, kill the inferior ones, put the rest in cages for breeding. I know. We have secret cabals where we instruct women how to brainwash people that it's really all about gender equality. But the truth of the matter is we won't be happy till we eat your hearts and dance naked under the goddess moon being warmed by the fire as our bras turn to ash.

wait that means your boobs are gonna be showing, right?

 

[User 100115]

Feminism isn't understood because it's impossible to understand, as there isn't a single coherent meaning of what it actually means.

It's a word claimed by a great many disparate groups, many with completely contradictory ideological views, that tells you very little about people's beliefs.

For collective society to not understand what feminism means is an entire coherent reading of the situation.

It's time to stop using the word, and instead describe your actual positions.

fem·i·nism
ˈfeməˌnizəm
noun
1.
the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

In a nutshell. Just because some people think that means 'man hating horrible person' doesn't change the core ideals of the movement.

 

[Tacitus_]

Tumblr certainly doesn't understand it.

 

[V_Arnold]

It's seriously just a plot to subvert the male gender, kill the inferior ones, put the rest in cages for breeding. I know. We have secret cabals where we instruct women how to brainwash people that it's really all about gender equality. But the truth of the matter is we won't be happy till we eat your hearts and dance naked under the goddess moon being warmed by the fire as our bras turn to ash.

Sad thing? A lot of people actually do believe this.
Fear is the mind killer, indeed.

Similar fears motivate homophoebia (GAYS WILL FUCK ME, OMG), and the list goes on, and on, and on...

 

[Jburton]

Feminism is for women ..... so as a man why should I care?

It is about empowering women, great ......... as a man should my concerns not be about the issues that effect my gender?

 

[dapperbandit]

Tumblr certainly doesn't understand it.

I can't stand this shit

 

[Race to be King]

Feminism is for women ..... so as a man why should I care?

It is about empowering women, great ......... as a man should my concerns not be about the issues that effect my gender?

Are you not capable of caring about both?

 

[BigDes]

Feminism is for women ..... so as a man why should I care?

It is about empowering women, great ......... as a man should my concerns not be about the issues that effect my gender?

No concepts of empathy at all?

 

[Jburton]

Are you not capable of caring about both?

Are feminists?

 

[V_Arnold]

Feminism is for women ..... so as a man why should I care?

It is about empowering women, great ......... as a man should my concerns not be about the issues that effect my gender?

Feminism is for everyone. You do not just "empower women" (more likely give back what has been taken a looong, long time ago, or never given in the first place), you empower certain traits that is deemed inappropriate for man to express or have.

That is a very important, neat feature of pushing feminism. I am tired of the big balls, manly bravery, no tears, no emotions, all style no substance push that has been placed on man all around the world. If I were a bit less resilent as a kid, I would have actually bought that bullshit.

Everyone benefits from total equality, on every level possible.

(Also, are we that incapable of thinking in bigger pictures, folks? If something does not affect you personally, but makes half of your female friends/family members incredibly frustrated, sour and often physically ill (stress-related problems), is it really something that does not affect you?)

 

[Tacitus_]

I can't stand this shit

Me or the tumblr poster?

 

[User 100115]

Are feminists?

Yes. Why wouldn't they be, if I might ask?

 

[Jburton]

No concepts of empathy at all?

It is nothing to do with a lack of empathy, rather if women are looking out for themselves (entirely justified) then should men not start doing the same in regards to the issues that seem to affect us (educational issues, discrepancies in funding for men's health issues etc)

 

[Goodlife]

Sometimes it seems like feminists don't understand feminism.

Yep this.

Sometimes my wife gets disparaging remarks from women as she gave up a good job with good career prospects, to have kids and be a stay at home mum.

It's all about choice and equality (infact I have no problems with positive discrimination to get things kick started)
But a lot of women I know don't see it like that. A lot of women get judged by feminists for not wanting a high powered, well paid job. They see it as a sign of weakness that the partner is the sole wage earner for a while, they don't think it's good that women should have to rely on men at all.

 

[BigDes]

It is nothing to do with a lack of empathy, rather if women are looking out for themselves (entirely justified) then should men not start doing the same in regards to the issues that seem to affect us (educational issues, discrepancies in funding for men's health issues etc)

It is not hard to do both though.

and often the issues are one and the same

 

[Soodanim]

No disrespect meant, but you're going to need to start reading more things.

Maybe that is the case, but like Fiction quoted above, the standard definition of the word is "the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men." I would imagine that if you ask everyone in this thread, you wouldn't get many responses equating feminism to egalitarianism.

 

[User 100115]

Maybe that is the case, but like Fiction quoted above, the standard definition of the word is "the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men." I would imagine that if you ask everyone in this thread, you wouldn't get many responses equating feminism to egalitarianism.

But the beauty of it is is that that definition also equates for stuff where men are lacking. Equality with men, not 'lording over men'. Not 'becoming the dominant sex'. Equality.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Maybe that is the case, but like Fiction quoted above, the standard definition of the word is "the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men." I would imagine that if you ask everyone in this thread, you wouldn't get many responses equating feminism to egalitarianism.

Well, yes, the standard definition entails advocating for equality among genders; that's precisely what I just said.

 

[Jburton]

It is not hard to do both though.

and often the issues are one and the same

What issues are one and the same that I described?

 

[Race to be King]

Are feminists?

I'm sure some people who identify as feminists don't think about gender equality including men's rights, but they don't speak for all feminists. There is no unified voice of feminism.

 

[Jburton]

I'm sure some people who identify as feminists don't think about gender equality including men's rights, but they don't speak for all feminists. There is no unified voice of feminism.

Therefore you can not state with any great certainty that feminists are looking out for men, or care to do so.

 

[BigDes]

What issues are one and the same that I described?

Education for a start, there are huge discrepancies in the whole system between the sexes. A lot of this is due to the fact that even in 2013 there are still 'girl' subjects and 'boy' subjects.

 

[Jburton]

Education for a start, there are huge discrepancies in the whole system between the sexes. A lot of this is due to the fact that even in 2013 there are still 'girl' subjects and 'boy' subjects.

Education seems to be slanted towards girls in general and boys are suffering for it, even in the traditional "boys" subjects as you put it.

Feminists are not going to do jack to help educational standards for boys, in fact show me any example where things have changed that help men also.