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[Parallax]

How is it "racist"? What is it saying about race exactly. What is this delicious, charcoal doughnut saying about "race"? Please be specific because I'm not seeing it.

you dont see the minstrel show like nature in this? like at all?

 

[jordan0386]

I still cant believe he typed that black skin is a...unnatural coloration.

I'ma work that into dialog this weekend, at work. Somehow I will.

 

[Slayven]

How is it "racist"? What is this delicious, charcoal doughnut saying about "race"? Please be specific because I'm not seeing it.

sigh, its going to be like that?

[/IMG]

Sure does look familiar doesn't it?

 

[Clairvoyance]

I still cant believe he typed that black skin is a...unnatural coloration.

I'ma work that into dialog this weekend, at work. Somehow I will.

"Yeah, so I was on this forum and this guy said it was unnatural for an asian lady from Thailand to have CHARCOAL colored skin! I mean, what's up with that? I just don't understand!"

 

[kirblar]

Well...

Sheesh...

oh boy

Yeah - not seeing the racism here. Bizarre for sure though.



Hmm - there are people that have that colouration naturally, so...you might want to check yourself.

"Black", as in the skin color, is not an unnatural coloration. And yes, I'm quite aware that there's a massive range of skin tones in the racial pallette, and that some get very dark. I'm also aware that there's racism in just about every part of the world toward people with darker skin in general, and that it's a systemic problem that spans pretty much every culture.

That, however, was not the coloration they used in the ad. The woman is made to explicitly look unnatural - it's clear the color is a combination of makeup/CG/photoshop. (The apple is a very good comparison.)

If you think I was being racist, check yourself.

 

[Slayven]

Funny thing is, if they gotten rid of the lipstick and made her solid black. There would no problem.

Cause the donut is solid black.

 

[stufte]

Funny thing is, if they gotten rid of the lipstick and made her solid black. There would no problem.

Cause the donut is solid black.

I guarantee people would still find a way to have a problem with it.

 

[Slayven]

I guarantee people would still find a way to have a problem with it.

People will find fault with anything, but if they had done that, they wouldn't have had a point.

 

[cheststrongwell]

"Black", as in the skin color, is not an unnatural coloration. And yes, I'm quite aware that there's a massive range of skin tones in the racial pallette, and that some get very dark. I'm also aware that there's racism in just about every part of the world toward people with darker skin in general, and that it's a systemic problem that spans pretty much every culture.

That, however, was not the coloration they used in the ad. The woman is made to explicitly look unnatural - it's clear the color is a combination of makeup/CG/photoshop. (The apple is a very good comparison.)

If you think I was being racist, check yourself.

Shaking my head...

 

[breakfuss]

sigh, its going to be like that?

Sure does look familiar doesn't it?

Context matters.

 

[massoluk]

sigh, its going to be like that?

Sure does look familiar doesn't it?

None of these shits are relevant to an ad that is being specifically being shown only in Thailand with no intention of having the model caricaturing a black person.

This is on the level of people bitching about Japan-only pokemon card having swastika symbol.

 

[Thorakai]

It appears to be an autonomous branch with its own CEO and product line.

That would excuse how this marketing campaign started in the first place since it is just a consequence of culture, but I would hope the American branch would step in if they truly cared about controlling the spread of this image. Admittedly I don't know how global businesses usually operate, but I doubt the American branch doesn't have some say or power.

That's the thing. Yes this can shape the way we think but this doesn't really make you THINK anything. It has no racial undertones, no subtle hint at the black being inferior. Nothing. It's just an image that just happens to be tied to something sensitive in america.

I don't think something has to necessarily show racial undertones or hints of black inferiority to be detrimental for the black community. Thailand has a non-existent black population so media like this goes a long way in shaping their view of what a black person looks like. For a population that doesn't interact with black people on a daily basis it would be great to use opportunities like this to showcase a real black model and provide an image grounded in reality. Whether providing a grounded image of black people to cultures like Thailand is important or not can be debated, but I feel there will be a lot to gain if natural black skin tones was portrayed as being normal as opposed to being cartoonish. People treat the unknown with fear and skepticism, so putting in the effort to make the black population known and normal can prevent a lot of problems in the future when it comes to integration and communication. You can say I'm looking into things too much but I'm of the opinion that the littlest things in life have a huge impact on the way we interact with the world and people.

 

[Valhelm]

This thread tells me that it's okay to be racist if you have a clean record.

 

[Zoe]

That would excuse how this marketing campaign started in the first place since it is just a consequence of culture, but I would hope the American branch would step in if they truly cared about controlling the spread of this image. Admittedly I don't know how global businesses usually operate, but I doubt the American branch doesn't have some say or power.

In the corporate (US) Dunkin' Donuts' apology, they refer to it as a franchise.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

People will find fault with anything, but if they had done that, they wouldn't have had a point.

Have to agree with the lip thing-if they'd either made her completely back, or gone with the two-tone pink and orange of the logo at least, there wouldn't be an issue, or at least not as much of one.

 

[jordan0386]

I don't think something has to necessarily show racial undertones or hints of black inferiority to be detrimental for the black community. Thailand has a non-existent black population so media like this goes a long way in shaping their view of what a black person looks like. For a population that doesn't interact with black people on a daily basis it would be great to use opportunities like this to showcase a real black model and provide an image grounded in reality. Whether providing a grounded image of black people to cultures like Thailand is important or not can be debated, but I feel there will be a lot to gain if natural black skin tones was portrayed as being normal as opposed to being cartoonish. People treat the unknown with fear and skepticism, so putting in the effort to make the black population known and normal can prevent a lot of problems in the future when it comes to integration and communication. You can say I'm looking into things too much but I'm of the opinion that the littlest things in life have a huge impact on the way we interact with the world and people.

Respect.

 

[Slayven]

Have to agree with the lip thing-if they'd either made her completely back, or gone with the two-tone pink and orange of the logo at least, there wouldn't be an issue, or at least not as much of one.

See that would be awesome.

 

[Ferrio]

I don't think something has to necessarily show racial undertones or hints of black inferiority to be detrimental for the black community. Thailand has a non-existent black population so media like this goes a long way in shaping their view of what a black person looks like. For a population that doesn't interact with black people on a daily basis it would be great to use opportunities like this to showcase a real black model and provide an image grounded in reality. Whether providing a grounded image of black people to cultures like Thailand is important or not can be debated, but I feel there will be a lot to gain if natural black skin tones was portrayed as being normal as opposed to being cartoonish. People treat the unknown with fear and skepticism, so putting in the effort to make the black population known and normal can prevent a lot of problems in the future when it comes to integration and communication. You can say I'm looking into things too much but I'm of the opinion that the littlest things in life have a huge impact on the way we interact with the world and people.

Do you think an ad with a black person would of not received backlash?

 

[Slayven]

This isn't racism= black people suck and kill them

This is racism= ignorance and no real exposure.



that is why it doesn't really bother me.

 

[jordan0386]

Do you think an ad with a black person would of not received backlash?

A black woman would not have agreed to paint her lips pink. At least, I would hope not.

 

[Zoe]

Have to agree with the lip thing-if they'd either made her completely back, or gone with the two-tone pink and orange of the logo at least, there wouldn't be an issue, or at least not as much of one.

They're still trying to make it look fashionable.

All black would have meant no visible smile. Two-toned lips would have looked odd.

 

[RM8]

Have to agree with the lip thing-if they'd either made her completely back, or gone with the two-tone pink and orange of the logo at least, there wouldn't be an issue, or at least not as much of one.

I think the two tone lips would have been ideal

BTW, all the definitions of "racism" I'm reading imply that one race is superior or inferior. At the very least, can you argue that this ad implies anything about inferiority? It's a smiling, cute lady eating a product that the company wants to be well received.

 

[Count Dookkake]

A black woman would not have agreed to paint her lips pink. At least, I would hope not.

Kinda like how they wouldn't go blonde?

 

[Black-Wind]

You're telling me that the second image which has a clear depiction of dominance, a clear image of inferiority (whether it's this version or the reverse) has less racial impact that a picture of a women in black face holding a doughnut?

C'mon...

I did say that that pic was using racial themes to excite interest, yes. But there's a difference between racial themes and racist imagery. Which was my whole point about the lipstick ... that's the only thing that really stood out to me and made me think twice about it. I kinda "completes" the racist/ Mr. Popo style look in your mind.

For example, the Thailand guy or whoever said something about "would this be a problem if she were painted white?!?". Actually, that's not the right way to think about it. That doesn't remind people of some kinda racist imagery.

But like I said ... it's the lips. Give her any other color not red or pink and we wouldn't even have a thread and I wouldn't have had to "look twice" at this or brush it off as "Asian places sure are strange ...".

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

They're still trying to make it look fashionable.

All black would have meant no visible smile. Two-toned lips would have looked odd.

Cot damn...

 

[breakfuss]

Maybe the lips don't help their case, but I truly don't detect the "racial undertones". I see a model made to blend in with a jet black donut. I imagine them doing the same had the donut been completely orange or purple. It makes sense within the context of the ad.

 

[.GqueB.]

sigh, its going to be like that?

*Stuff*

That's not racist though. Historically insensitive? Absolutely, but "racist". My point, along with a few others in this thread, is that the word is just being thrown around so much nowadays. This ad isn't racist. It says precisely dick about race.

I don't think something has to necessarily show racial undertones or hints of black inferiority to be detrimental for the black community. Thailand has a non-existent black population so media like this goes a long way in shaping their view of what a black person looks like. For a population that doesn't interact with black people on a daily basis it would be great to use opportunities like this to showcase a real black model and provide an image grounded in reality. Whether providing a grounded image of black people to cultures like Thailand is important or not can be debated, but I feel there will be a lot to gain if natural black skin tones was portrayed as being normal as opposed to being cartoonish. People treat the unknown with fear and skepticism, so putting in the effort to make the black population known and normal can prevent a lot of problems in the future when it comes to integration and communication. You can say I'm looking into things too much but I'm of the opinion that the littlest things in life have a huge impact on the way we interact with the world and people.

Yea and they would've gotten shit for that because they ad would imply that they made a black doughnut for black people. Don't even try to pretend I'm wrong. People are always looking to be offended by something. This is simply another case of that. This image really isn't a big deal.

I would agree with you in relation to how Japanese Anime often chose to depict black people. And how cartoon network actually let them run like that . THAT to me was something to talk about. But in this instance, they aren't trying to depict black people. It's not a reference that people in Thailand are familiar with so they wouldn't make that connection so quickly. Little effect.

BUT...

now that people are making a big stink of it the connection will be drawn. It's like the Janet Jackson thing from the superbowl. It didn't become a thing until people made it a thing. Then everyone started zooming in and analyzing and replaying it over and over again when it was nothing more than a moment that most people missed in the first place. This sort of thing is so stupid. Everybody wants to discuss everything now and it turns every little fucking thing into a big deal. People here are getting offended over an ad that they will never see that will be viewed by people that won't even get the connection they are stretching to make.

 

[Ferrio]

Well if anything I'd say this has been a hugely successful advertising campaign.

 

[CrocMother]

it would be great to use opportunities like this to showcase a real black model and provide an image grounded in reality.

Using a black model wouldn't work in the context of the ad because that person isn't meant to be portrayed as "black". That is a Thai woman covered in coal residue. In fact, if they had used a black person in the ad it would be more racist if you think about it.

I feel there will be a lot to gain if natural black skin tones was portrayed as being normal as opposed to being cartoonish. People treat the unknown with fear and skepticism, so putting in the effort to make the black population known and normal can prevent a lot of problems in the future when it comes to integration and communication. You can say I'm looking into things too much but I'm of the opinion that the littlest things in life have a huge impact on the way we interact with the world and people.

Totally agree with you here. That being said the model definitely does not have a natural skin tone.

 

[JordanN]

If I was in Thailand, that ad would creep me out but I wouldn't be too offended because I'm concerned about the intent.

If she talked like a minstrel and was saying "buya dooonuts for me massa" then yeah, I would be pissed but I don't think the ad is doing that. No good in censoring everything that's black.

 

[Acerac]

Honestly I thought the eye shadow was meant to represent the second color of the DD logo. Granted, it's yellow instead of orange, but that's how it looked to me at first glance.

 

[rhophiehalul78]

I still cant believe he typed that black skin is a...unnatural coloration.

I'ma work that into dialog this weekend, at work. Somehow I will.

I think kirblar is saying that black skin is an unnatural color specifically for the Thai woman.

 

[SnakeSlashRO]

sigh, its going to be like that?

[/IMG]

Sure does look familiar doesn't it?

This.

Had they avoided pink or red lipstick then it would have been fine, they could have went an extra mile and changed her hairstyle with the lips. It looks like shes flaring her nose too btw.


But shes still hot. Would.

 

[Seep]

Girl is covered in charcoal to match the colour of the doughnut and her eyes and lips match the colours of the dunkin doughnuts logo.

Clearly racist.

 

[kirblar]

I think kirblar is saying that black skin is an unnatural color specifically for the Thai woman.

No woman naturally looks like she's stepped out of a film Noir movie in real life.

 

[Vice]

That's not racist though. Historically insensitive? Absolutely, but "racist". My point, along with a few others in this thread, is that the word is just being thrown around so much nowadays. This ad isn't racist. It says precisely dick about race.



Yea and they would've gotten shit for that because they ad would imply that they made a black doughnut for black people. Don't even try to pretend I'm wrong. People are always looking to be offended by something. This is simply another case of that. This image really isn't a big deal.

It is to some people. No one gets to decide what a big deal is to others.

 

[cheststrongwell]

I think kirblar is saying that black skin is an unnatural color specifically for the Thai woman.

I want to pet you.

 

[jordan0386]

Girl is covered in charcoal to match the colour of the doughnut and her eyes and lips match the colours of the dunkin doughnuts logo.

Clearly racist.

No systematic racism towards black people in Thailand, so it doesn't count. So I disagree.

 

[DarkFlow]

I didnt claim everything is racist. I just pointed out what I viewed as something that didnt need to be expressed the way it was.

At the bold. Well, that's what they want. But people will continue to speak up when necessary.

Who the fuck is "they"? Is there a racist Illuminati I don't know about?

 

[JordanN]

sigh, its going to be like that?

[/IMG]


Sure does look familiar doesn't it?

Funny thing about Al Jolson is he wasn't racist. He liked black people and even stood up for them. I think he used the makeup to make fun of the whole thing.

 

[cheststrongwell]

Who the fuck is "they"? Is there a racist Illuminati I don't know about?

The MAN.

 

[ThaiGrocer]

Black face does exist in Thai, but this isn't it.



I mean, Thailand is pretty race conscious. We have stereotypes of Chinese, Indian, Farangs, Blacks in mainstream media. but this isn't it. This is a model with the same color as donut.

I remember when they brought that toothpaste over to the states, the manufacturer had to change the face and the name of the tooth paste. It went from Darkie to Darlie toothpaste.

edit: now I want a chocolate doughnut.

 

[TheOMan]

"Black", as in the skin color, is not an unnatural coloration. And yes, I'm quite aware that there's a massive range of skin tones in the racial pallette, and that some get very dark. I'm also aware that there's racism in just about every part of the world toward people with darker skin in general, and that it's a systemic problem that spans pretty much every culture.

That, however, was not the coloration they used in the ad. The woman is made to explicitly look unnatural - it's clear the color is a combination of makeup/CG/photoshop. (The apple is a very good comparison.)

If you think I was being racist, check yourself.

No - I didn't think you were being racist, just insensitive in your wording. However, your explanation makes sense, so it's all good. To me it doesn't look unnatural as I have seen people with that skin tone in real life. It sort of reminded me of the crayons that said "skin tone" on them, but were beigey-peach in colour.

 

[RM8]

No systematic racism towards black people in Thailand, so it doesn't count. So I disagree.

If negativity/inferiority isn't implied in the ad, then it literally can't be racist. You might use "racially insensitive towards people living on other continent based on tragic historical events", I guess.

 

[.GqueB.]

If negativity/inferiority isn't implied in the ad, then it literally can't be racist. You might use "racially insensitive towards people living on other continent based on tragic historical events", I guess.

Bingo Bongo.

 

[jordan0386]

Darkie/Darlie imagery is fascinating.

Racist ads are ok on the other side of the world. But when we bring it to the States, lets re-analyze our branding.

 

[DarkFlow]

sigh, its going to be like that?

[/IMG]

Sure does look familiar doesn't it?

One thing is not like the others, can you guess what it is? I'll give you a hint... One is from Thailand in Asia, the others are all American.

 

[jordan0386]

If negativity/inferiority isn't implied in the ad, then it literally can't be racist. You might use "racially insensitive towards people living on other continent based on tragic historical events", I guess.

'Black is still good'

Black skin is ok for us in Thailand. These black donuts are ok too.

 

[jordan0386]

One thing is not like the others, can you guess what it is? I'll give you a hint... One is from Thailand in Asia, the others are all American.

Why is it ok for non American societies to exploit negative traits from the States?

I am not getting. Why is any form of Blackface ok??

 

[dbztrk]

If I paint a black/latina woman as white in an ad. Would the whites call it as racist?

The issue isn't just them painting them another color. It is their intent. They were clearly trying to imitate a black person. Not only was the ladies skin color changed to black but her lips were painted pink and she was given a braided hairstyle. They were clearly trying to mimic a black person. Now the question is, is that racist?

I don't know if it is. However, I do think it is in poor taste. Please keep in mind that while Thailand doesn't have a history of black face they have imported a number of America's racist ideas/behaviors and Dunkin Donuts is an American company. They should know better.