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[Klocker]

dat arrogance

This is definitely a repeat of 2006 Sony.

If the cost of 1.4 games over its lifetime, is keeping us from the console of our choice then maybe we are in the wrong hobby.

Plus they can add in value with a pack in game most likely.

Price didn't stop ps3 too much from holding its own at higher price with similar difference in graphics compared to x360

 

[timlot]

PS4 is 29% cheaper to access media functions.

XB1 is 40% more expensive than PS4 to access media functions.

That's even bigger.

When they drone on and on about their "all in one entertainment system", you really need to take this difference into account as a generic customer who doesn't care about online multiplayer.

I have had Xbox live gold for going on 11 years now, (was a beta tester for Xbox live on the origianal xbox back in 2002) and I have never paid more than $40 year. Over the last few years its been around $35. There are always deals for xbox live on slickdeals. There was even an ebay deal that had them going for $20! If you pay retail for an Xbox live subscription that means you never did a google search for one.

 

[BigDug13]

If the cost of 1.4 games over its lifetime, is keeping us from the console of your choice then maybe we are in the wrong hobby.

Plus they can add in value with a pack in game most likely.

Price didn't stop ps3 too much from holding its own at higher price with similar difference in graphics compared to x360

I'm still pissed my 360 no longer does Netflix because I stopped paying for Gold. There's more to the value savings and system capabilities for your $400 vs $500 than just that $100 difference that you see.

 

[Mercury Land-Snake]

It is up to them to show why Xbox One is worth the extra $100 over PS4 and they've done a horrible job of doing it so far. For people that are looking to buy a games machine, they haven't shown why Kinect 2.0 is worth the extra cash.

MS is very reactive to the market and competition. I expect a complete 180 on mandatory Kinect early next year. They're not going to let Sony run away with the market.

 

[disastermouse]

I have had Xbox live gold for going on 11 years now, (was a beta tester for Xbox live on the origianal xbox back in 2002) and I have never paid more than $40 year. Over the last few years its been around $35. There are always deals for xbox live on slickdeals. There was even an ebay deal that had them going for $20! If you pay retail for an Xbox live subscription that means you never did a google search for one.

You can get used Vita memory cards and systems for cheaper than retail too - or do a Black Friday sale. It doesn't mean it's not too expensive at retail.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Oh okay, well yeah. I hadn't even considered that. Where are the 4 PS4 games though?

PS+ isn't free.

PS+ is actually free for 14 days when you buy a PS4

 

[BigDug13]

I have had Xbox live gold for going on 11 years now, (was a beta tester for Xbox live on the origianal xbox back in 2002) and I have never paid more than $40 year. Over the last few years its been around $35. There are always deals for xbox live on slickdeals. There was even an ebay deal that had them going for $20! If you pay retail for an Xbox live subscription that means you never did a google search for one.

Ok so for $535 you can unlock the media functionality. Just because savings can be found in Gold pricing doesn't make it Ok that they lock their own advertised features behind it.

 

[Mrbob]

I'm of two minds on this.

Right now Kinect feels like a paperweight dragging down the XB1, but it could be worthwhile if MS showcases some compelling content. As much as I currently dislike Kinect, it is also the only thing that truly differentiates the XB1 from the PS4.

So yeah, MS has work to do.

 

[blitzcloud]

Ok so for $535 you can unlock the media functionality. Just because savings can be found in Gold pricing doesn't make it Ok that they lock their own advertised features behind it.

yep. there are times of the year where ps+ is 37,5. or 50 for a year and three months. Combine that with an offer i found of 50€ psn cards with a 25% discount and what we got? PS+ for 28€ a year.

 

[nded]

Wait, you need a Gold sub to play F2P games on the Xbone? If they're going to sell this thing as a 'service' then they're going to have to at least match the PS4 on price. They got their cake and ate it too with the 360 and Live Gold subs, but I don't think MS can count on that this time around since the competition has both price and performance over them as well as more content and features out of the box at no additional cost.

 

[akira28]

I think, I think, I think

hey, the man thinks his thoughts have value. who are we to take that away from him?

 

[bob page]

Ok so for $535 you can unlock the media functionality. Just because savings can be found in Gold pricing doesn't make it Ok that they lock their own advertised features behind it.

Pretty much. Just because $40 isn't a huge price to pay doesn't mean it's acceptable. After being a paying Live member for over 6 years, I only recently came to the realization that I have no idea what I'm paying for. The added value just wasn't there for me. I was hoping Games for Gold would have changed that, but lol.

Wait, you need a Gold sub to play F2P games on the Xbone?

Are you really that surprised? We're talking about the company that requires Gold to watch Netflix content.

 

[Mercury Land-Snake]

Wait, you need a Gold sub to play F2P games on the Xbone?

Yes.

Basically XBLFree lets you play SP games, movies and buy content through XBL. Damn thing is neutered unless you get Gold.

 

[Cynar]

Wait, you need a Gold sub to play F2P games on the Xbone?

Yup and mmo's as well. FFXI on 360 was a fluke that they will not allow happen again.

 

[BigDug13]

Wait, you need a Gold sub to play F2P games on the Xbone?

Yes.

 

[etrain911]

Wait, you need a Gold sub to play F2P games on the Xbone?

Yep.

I feel like they should just go kinect-less. I can appreciate that they're trying to differentiate themselves, but allowing the peripheral to be unplugged already means that a lot of the player base will take the one home, unbox it, and promptly toss the kinect into a closet never to be seen again. Hell, the voice commands alone are already (supposedly) responsible for screwing up their launch. It would be easier for them to take it away....but...they can't. Because if they did, then they would be left with a system with inferior specs and a paywall unequal to Sony's.

 

[Shtof]

Well, then I guess it's up to consumers to prove it' not.

 

[badb0y]

If the cost of 1.4 games over its lifetime, is keeping us from the console of our choice then maybe we are in the wrong hobby.

Plus they can add in value with a pack in game most likely.

Price didn't stop ps3 too much from holding its own at higher price with similar difference in graphics compared to x360

If we are talking about value the PS4 blows the Xbox One out of the water so let's not even go there.

 

[RoboPlato]

Oh Christ, not the "$100 isn't a lot of money" line. When you're getting significantly better tech specs for $100 less it makes a huge difference in perception of value.

 

[zainetor]

Sony had more expensive hardware and somewhat justifiably believed in Cell. They hadn't released a peripheral with Cell technology, hyped it, had it fizzle, and then hyped version 2.0 in the PS3.

sony had to push blu ray, stop. That's the main reason of the price difference between ps3 and 360.
Hardware were on the same powerlevel.
Now microsoft has to push kinect, that's why the console costs more.

 

[Raide]

Oh Christ, not the "$100 isn't a lot of money" line. When you're getting significantly better tech specs for $100 less it makes a huge difference in perception of value.

Is the average consumer going to really care about how many extra GHz of special DD5 sauce bits a console has? Price and games they want to play will be the main factor, then it will be what console their friends play on.

 

[nded]

Is the average consumer going to really care about how many extra GHz of special DD5 sauce bits a console has? Price and games they want to play will be the main factor, then it will be what console their friends play on.

No, the average consumer doesn't care about tech specifics beyond asking the Best Buy rep which one is more powerful. They do care about price, though, and so do their friends.

 

[RoboPlato]

Is the average consumer going to really care about how many extra GHz of special DD5 sauce bits a console has? Price and games they want to play will be the main factor, then it will be what console their friends play on.

You said yourself price is a bigger factor and PS4 is $100 cheaper. Anyone that knows about the power difference will also find that hard to ignore when PS4 also has a price advantage.

 

[Linkyn]

Whether or not the XBox One has more value than the PS4 is probably a question of taste and thus highly subjective. Both systems have very similar launch lineups (with only a handful of exclusives setting them apart) and basic functionality. Naturally, if you like Sony games, yoo'll probably go for a PS4, and if you like Microsoft games, you'll go for an XBox One. The only real difference in launch bundles is the Kinect 2.0 coming with every XBox One, so you have to ask yourself whether you're ready to pay 100 € / $ for it.

However, whether people want the XBox One over the PS4 is not just a value issue. I recognize that there is hardware of all kinds out there that gives me better value for my money, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get it if it's too expensive. That is why I don't have an OLED TV or a high-end PC.

For many people, it's not easily justifiable to purchase a home console for close to 600 € (if you're looking to get some software support for it, as well), even if it might be "better" than the 100 € cheaper PS4. At these prices, it's mostly a question of budget, and increasing system price from 400 to 500 still constitutes an increase of 25 %.

Edit:

I'm of two minds on this.

Right now Kinect feels like a paperweight dragging down the XB1, but it could be worthwhile if MS showcases some compelling content. As much as I currently dislike Kinect, it is also the only thing that truly differentiates the XB1 from the PS4.

So yeah, MS has work to do.

I feel like if they had something in mind, they probably would have at least shown it off at one point or another. After all, they are really trying to push Kinect and are now having trouble to justify people having to pay for it, even if they don't want it and it is no longer necessary for the system to work.

 

[Mercury Land-Snake]

Is the average consumer going to really care about how many extra GHz of special DD5 sauce bits a console has? Price and games they want to play will be the main factor, then it will be what console their friends play on.

Yeah price and games are what matter, and right now most of the big 3rd party games are on both consoles and the PS4 is $100 cheaper. The power difference isn't the be all end all, especially until we see the manifestation of the power gap in later years.

 

[Raide]

No, the average consumer doesn't care about tech specifics beyond asking the Best Buy rep which one is more powerful. They do care about price, though, and so do their friends.

You said yourself price is a bigger factor and PS4 is $100 cheaper. Anyone that knows about the power difference will also find that hard to ignore when PS4 also has a price advantage.

Price will certainly be a factor but for early adopters is just not a thing in the short term. Games certainly will be, so whichever console has the games you want to play, that is the one you and your friends usually pick.

Should be awesome for everyone, no matter which side they pick.

Bring on the games!

 

[stargateheaven]

he doesnt think it'll be a deal killer? ok. lol.

 

[Officerrob]

I know Albert posts here, and I'm not sure if he's posted in this thread yet, but that was just a dumb thing to say. Lets stop beating around the bush, it's up to Microsoft to prove that paying an extra $100 for a Kinect that most people don't want is worth it. Is $100 worth voice controlling my console? No, I (and I'm guessing most people) don't want to do this anyways. Is $100 worth being able to play Kinect games? What games? There is only Kinect Sports Rivals, and there has yet to be a compelling game released for Kinect that is not named Dance Central. Long story short, I prefer MS exclusives, but will not get an Xbox One until they are more price competitive, and stop forcing me to pay for shoehorned tech that I don't want, and that has yet to be proven as worth my money.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

^To the above. The Xbox One should be at least $150 less without Kinect. Xbox One is not worth $399 without Kinect. Without Kinect the Xbox One is pretty much an unspectacular device somewhere in-between Wii U and PS4. The problem with removing Kinect is that they'd probably have to charge $200 for the Kinect accessory which would make it a very niche product. Then why did they put in all the R&D into the device if it's going to be niche and not used or supported.


The UK price is the one that really needs to come down. 399 pounds would have been much smarter.

The price should be:

$499 USD
€449 EUR
£399 GBP

People in the US shouldn't be complaining too much. For $500 I'd rather have an Xbox One than a 16GB iPad.

 

[MrToughPants]

That $100 quote is unbelievable.

 

[Klocker]

If we are talking about value the PS4 blows the Xbox One out of the water so let's not even go there.

Haha. Yea, ok fact right :lol


Its called personal preference man... there's plenty of reasons to like both/either. Let's not go there no need for lists

 

[iapetus]

You're all fools. Clearly XBOne is better value, because if you don't want to pay full price, or you're not from the US, or you're in the armed forces, or you don't want Kinect, you can just buy a 360 instead. Which is cheaper. Bargain!

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

"$100, when you’re talking $400 vs. $500 [shrugs shoulders]. I don’t believe it’s going to be the deal-killer," he said.

If $100 is nothing then MS should take the hit instead of consumers. Very arrogant, ivory tower, thing to say. He should be embarrassed.

 

[Iacobellis]

You're all fools. Clearly XBOne is better value, because if you don't want to pay full price, or you're not from the US, or you're in the armed forces, or you don't want Kinect, you can just buy a 360 instead. Which is cheaper. Bargain!

And you can still play Titanfall!

 

[Elios83]

You can't help but feel the irony of them being in the same position and doing the same comments of Sony in 2005/2006.

 

[King Beyond the wall]

They keep saying this 'all in one' thing but they haven't really specified it too much. Can some one explain to me how this console will be 'all in one' for me (I'm from the UK)

 

[Albert Penello]

One of the reasons I like interacting with this community, despite the shellacking a I get, is because I generally believe that you guys are one of the most insightful and thoughtful places around. When we say or announce something, I read these threads because I've felt like people here would have a brighter view of how this industry works, so I can get some really good and interesting points of view on complicated topics. If I just wanted to get confirmation that everything we were doing was awesome, I'd post on a fan site.

Instead, I come here, and take the beatings, in hopes of learning something.

So that said - is this story *really* worth 10 pages (and counting)?

People do realize I wasn't walking around PAX with a sign that says "Please ask me about the price! Will spout PR nonsense for food!"

I was there doing pre-scheduled interviews. That means people ask us to get an interview, I get to sit in a chair all day. Then journalists come to me and ask questions, and I try to give good answers. We don't censor or review beforehand, so I have to be prepared for a wide variety of questions like this, and we have a very limited amount of time (sometimes like 15 min after we've met each other, etc.) so the answers are truncated because the interviewer has a page full of questions.

So I answer the question I was asked about price. I do it without talking s**t about our competitors, or putting them down. I talk about why I think WE will be better. I make it clear it's what "I think" and that it's "our job" to prove our belief. Overall, absolutely *nothing* in what I said disparages anyone or ducks the question.

As for the shoulder shrug. I have no control over what part of what I say gets put in print. I'm not in control of the tone of how it's written, and it's the writers choice what to include or not. The shoulder shrug was really an involuntary physical action - because, well, I was sort of running out of things to say. Think of it as my body saying "well, that's it" or "I don't know what else to say" so you shrug.

I'm happy to reflect on whether or not you agree with what I say. I think someone like Blueblur1 put together a thoughtful point of view, versus making this unnecessarily personal. I was there to talk up Xbox One. Talk about what I think is good about our platform. Just because some people don't agree, doesn't make it PR nonsense.

Anyway, feel free to continue.

For anyone at PAX, who's on the floor playing our games and their games, I'd love to see what people think. I was only their Friday, otherwise I'd meetup and chat in person.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

I'm amazed this thread wasn't started by the guy with the Jurassic park avatar.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Keep at it, Microsoft. Will never support your gaming efforts again. You fooled me with Xbox 1 (the actual first one), I lied to myself with Xbox 2, not doing it with Xbox 3.

You're all fools. Clearly XBOne is better value, because if you don't want to pay full price, or you're not from the US, or you're in the armed forces, or you don't want Kinect, you can just buy a 360 instead. Which is cheaper. Bargain!

Then again, you have a good point.

 

[Klocker]

You can't help but feel the irony of them being in the same position and doing the same comments of Sony in 2005/2006.

Nah... with Kinect they could easily be asking $599 but they went in at $499 where as Sony had no reason to ever be at $599... well maybe blue ray I guess for the first year maybe... the comparison is not valid imo

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

"I think our games are better.

Let's take this highly subjective view as fact, just for the sake of argument. And let's also assume that games like TitanFall aren't just timed exclusives and instead will be Xbone only forever.

Okay, so what? Even if every one of Microsoft's launch games is better and every one of them is exclusive, they're still launch games. Going by track record stretching back over a decade, Sony has proven themselves to be much more likely to support their consoles year in and year out with solid/amazing titles spanning almost any genre you can name.

Microsoft has shown they'll support Kinect and "pew pew pew" games.

"I think as people start to experience Kinect and see what it can do using voice, I think that’s better"

We've used Kinect. We've used Kinect's voice control in games. If shouting "grenade!" instead of tapping a button is Microsoft's idea of "better," I'll stay far far away.

And yes, I realize the new Kinect is new. It's also motion control, which is a gimmick that, by its nature relying on a camera, will never be as precise or fast as using a controller. In the time it takes you to wave your arms to open a menu, I can tap a button a half dozen times. In the time it takes you to shout out a play in Madden, I can have mine chosen and be waiting for you to hurry your ass up.

"I think the ability to have an all-in-one system where you can plug in the TV*, that’s better**.

*Not available in all markets

**Requires a cable box to work

"I just believe that we’re going to have a better system."

Just my opinion, but gimmicks do not equal better. A more powerful console for less money does.

"$100, when you’re talking $400 vs. $500 [shrugs shoulders]. I don’t believe it’s going to be the deal-killer," he said.

I understand how he meant that, but it sounds somewhat elitist. Try making what I make per hour and say that with a straight face.

I mean this with all due respect. I know he posts here, so my disagreement shouldn't be seen as any kind of insult toward the man. He's saying what he believes/is paid to say. But I couldn't disagree more.

 

[Unknown One]

Nah... with Kinect they could easily be asking $599 but they went in at $499 where as Sony had no reason to ever be at $599... well maybe blue ray I guess for the first year maybe... the comparison is not valid imo

The parts costed Sony over 800 dollars to manufacturer a PS3.

 

[Iacobellis]

Nah... with Kinect they could easily be asking $599 but they went in at $499 where as Sony had no reason to ever be at $599... well maybe blue ray I guess for the first year maybe... the comparison is not valid imo

Sony had no reason? Each 60GB model was costing them $800 at launch.

 

[timlot]

If $100 is nothing then MS should take the hit instead of consumers. Very arrogant, ivory tower, thing to say. He should be embarrassed.

I don't think he meant it has a $100 isn't a lot money. Its just that when you've committed to spend $400-$600 on a device, extra controller and game that you are going to use for a least 10 years a $100 difference is not that big a deal.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

When Apple launched the iPhone it was pretty much the only capacitive multi-touch device on the market. It was also a ridiculously expensive $500-$600 on contract. Similarly you could have looked at smartphones at the time that used resistive touch screens and said they were hundreds of dollars cheaper. But developers started building apps for the capacitive multi-touch display and that gave the iPhone a much higher perceived value than all other smartphones on the market.

The point is that if Kinect gets a lot of support and becomes a must have feature then the question no longer becomes why is the Xbox One more expensive, it becomes when are other companies going to be able to do what Kinect is doing.

Microsoft would be smart to be highlighting the best apps and functions of the Kinect, unfortunately they have a core group of customers who have decided they aren't allowed to focus on Kinect even outside of E3 (ie. the original unveiling). Hopefully once Windows app creators and independent game creators get their hands on Kinect we'll start seeing some really cool things.

 

[Iacobellis]

I don't think he meant it has a $100 isn't a lot money. Its just that when you've committed to spend $400-$600 on a device, extra controller and game that you are going to use for a least 10 years a $100 difference is not that big a deal.

That $100 difference can still get you a game and six months of a Plus membership.

 

[Mistwalker]

One of the reasons I like interacting with this community, despite the shellacking a I get, is because I generally believe that you guys are one of the most insightful and thoughtful places around. When we say or announce something, I read these threads because I've felt like people here would have a brighter view of how this industry works, so I can get some really good and interesting points of view on complicated topics. If I just wanted to get confirmation that everything we were doing was awesome, I'd post on a fan site.

Instead, I come here, and take the beatings, in hopes of learning something.

For my part, it's your willingness to do that that gives you the benefit of the doubt in my book.

I don't have a lot of positive things to say about your employer, Mr. Penello, but I'll reiterate what I posted earlier: you personally come across as a genuine guy, and I respect that. The Microsoft PR department as a whole might need some serious retraining, but the way you stated your opinion AS an opinion, not mud-slinging the other guy--stay classy like that.

 

[Klocker]

Sony had no reason? Each 60GB model was costing them $800 at launch.

Not sure if that was bom or including r&d But for what was in the box? Not worth it imo...$499 ps3 version was fair

Also adding in r&d for Kinect and all else in Bone we don't know what Ms is losing ....eventually we will know bom but taking all improvements in Kinect and rest of the box and the new live servers etc.... yea not a bad deal for Bone year one not to mention any value adds they are throwing in

 

[bishoptl]

I know Albert posts here, and I'm not sure if he's posted in this thread yet, but that was just a dumb thing to say. Lets stop beating around the bush, it's up to Microsoft to prove that paying an extra $100 for a Kinect that most people don't want is worth it. Is $100 worth voice controlling my console? No, I (and I'm guessing most people) don't want to do this anyways. Is $100 worth being able to play Kinect games? What games? There is only Kinect Sports Rivals, and there has yet to be a compelling game released for Kinect that is not named Dance Central. Long story short, I prefer MS exclusives, but will not get an Xbox One until they are more price competitive, and stop forcing me to pay for shoehorned tech that I don't want, and that has yet to be proven as worth my money.

Well said.

 

[Unknown One]

It was the bill of materials. There is no way the Xbone has a higher bill of materials than then PS3 even with research and development added on it.