Microsoft: "It’s up to us to prove that [Xbox One is] worth $100 more [than PS4]"

Not sure if that was bom or including r&d But for what was in the box? Not worth it imo...$499 ps3 version was fair

Also adding in r&d for Kinect and all else in Bone we don't know what Ms is losing ....eventually we will know bom but taking all improvements in Kinect and rest of the box and the new live servers etc.... yea not a bad deal for Bone

It doesn't matter if YOU don't think it was worth it, that's not how buying anything in this world works. If I walk into an Apple Store and want to purchase an iPhone 5, but I don't think it's worth $200, Apple won't offer it to me for $150. Sony invested billions into Cell, along with incorporating many technologies that weren't cheap in 2006. HDMI, the RSX, a 60GB HDD, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc..
 
MS should realize that collecting all that kinect data about TV viewing habits it's worth more than the $100 they are asking for.

take the hit, charge $400 and make your money back selling our data to third parties.
 
More than proving it's worth 100 dollars more they have to prove that extra value is relevant. Otherwise people will flock to the cheaper option regardless if they consider $500 a fair price or not.
 
Not sure if that was bom or including r&d But for what was in the box? Not worth it imo...$499 ps3 version was fair

Also adding in r&d for Kinect and all else in Bone we don't know what Ms is losing ....eventually we will know bom but taking all improvements in Kinect and rest of the box and the new live servers etc.... yea not a bad deal for Bone year one not to mention any value adds they are throwing in

Blu-Ray players were $1000 when PS3 came out. Wifi adapters and 60GB HDD were things Microsoft wasn't even willing to include in their console at the time. It also started with the PS2 hardware inside for 100% PS2 BC.

It definitely had $800 worth of stuff inside. Whether or not you wanted to spend the $600 to be a Blu-Ray early adopter on the cheap just didn't appeal to most gamers though. I certainly saw the value in it since I did want to become a Blu-Ray early adopter and my PS3 sat in my living room as an all-in-one media center and I didn't play any games on it till this year. It's also why the PS3 game attach rate overall was lowest for this gen.

And honestly at the time, PS3 being the cheapest blu-ray player on the market and one of the best DVD upconverting players on the market, I feel like the VALUE of PS3's media player at $600 7 years ago exceeds buying a voice-controlled kinect-based media player for $500 now, based on price of blu-ray components at the time. Especially when $60 subscription per year is needed to utilize it as a media box.

Sony basically ate $200 for me to have a cheaper blu-ray player and actually the best first generation blu-ray player that was ever created since it's had better upgrades via firmware than any other first generation blu-ray player.
 
It doesn't matter if YOU don't think it was worth it, that's not how buying anything in this world works. If I walk into an Apple Store and want to purchase an iPhone 5, but I don't think it's worth $200, Apple won't offer it to me for $150....c..

Exactly. Good point. Same as people here not thinking $499 is worth it for the Bone while some do. Glad we agree
 
Not sure if that was bom or including r&d But for what was in the box? Not worth it imo...$499 ps3 version was fair

Also adding in r&d for Kinect and all else in Bone we don't know what Ms is losing ....eventually we will know bom but taking all improvements in Kinect and rest of the box and the new live servers etc.... yea not a bad deal for Bone year one not to mention any value adds they are throwing in

The PS3 bill of materials was 900 at launch. Sony bent over backwards to get it as low as 599.
 
ILets stop beating around the bush, it's up to Microsoft to prove that paying an extra $100 for a Kinect that most people don't want is worth it. Is $100 worth voice controlling my console? No, I (and I'm guessing most people) don't want to do this anyways.

What strikes me as odd is that Microsoft stresses Kinect-based controls as an enabler for desktop/tablet-like multitasking and apps, however, every time I go to YouTube to see if I can find any official or in-depth video about this I find literally nothing except brief, offscreen snapshots and the faked E3 demo. I admit that I am skeptical if the XB1 has any role to play that tablets aren't already occupying perfectly, but at least I am interested for more information and demos. So far, the operating system, the apps, and how I would use it in typical scenarios is some sort of mystery. Sony has released an official trailer, and an UI demo was the very first thing they showed during GamesCom. I really don't get why Microsoft isn't showing such things more.
 
I think it's not hard to agree with the rest of what he's saying, but LOL. Is this serious? Let them eat cake.

I know it's been said before, but the Microsoft of 2013 truly does echo the Sony of 2005/6.
 
The PS3 bill of materials was 900 at launch. Sony bent over backwards to get it as low as 599.

That's also opinion and yes my original point on this tangent was referring to someone saying that MS was being as cocky as Sony in 2006.

I simply said they are being just as "reasonable" (more imo) as Sony was.. we have no idea what Ms costs have been on this and will be... in a few years we can talk cost specifics and physical value. ;)


Right now it is about perceived or intrinsic value which is what Albert is referring to

Two different arguments here
 
You know what, I believe him. The price difference will not hold them back.

- Xbox has by far the better games announced so far including the launch lineup
- Xbox has always had a vastly superior online service
- Controlling everything by voice will be a better experience for UI
- Using Xbox to control my other media will make my life easier

Just because people don't want to pay for it, doesnt mean the service won't be amazing.
 
Subsidise the console by selling information to the NSA.

In all seriousness, though, MS needs to step up their game. Albert Penello seems like a cool guy, but MS just isn't doing enough to make people want to get their console. Even if the console was more powerful (which it's not), the price alone could make people get the PS4. $100 is a lot of money.
 
That's also opinion and yes my original point on this tangent was referring to someone saying that MS was being as cocky as Sony in 2006.

I simply said they are being just as "reasonable" (more imo) as Sony was.. we have no idea what Ms costs have been on this and will be... in a few years we can talk cost specifics and physical value. ;)


Right now it is about perceived or intrinsic value which is what Albert is referring to

Two different arguments here

The thing is that 7 years ago, Blu-Ray movies had a significant and tangible enhancement to picture and sound compared to DVD's. You took a PS3 home and rented or purchased some blu-ray movies and you were blown away by the quality of the picture and sound. It also had the components and firmware updates to quickly become an upconverting DVD player that rivaled the picture quality of upconverting DVD players costing thousands of dollars.

Kinect is not offering those things to improve the quality of the video and sound you are getting. So while the price of the components you are paying for will make navigation easier through voice commands, it will do nothing to actually increase the quality of the video and sound that is produced by your media.

So again, you got greater media enhancements from a $600 PS3 7 years ago than you get from a $500 XBO now.
 
That's also opinion and yes my original point on this tangent was referring to someone saying that MS was being as cocky as Sony in 2006.

I simply said they are being just as "reasonable" (more imo) as Sony was.. we have no idea what Ms costs have been on this and will be... in a few years we can talk cost specifics and physical value. ;)


Right now it is about perceived or intrinsic value which is what Albert is referring to

How is it an opinion when you take a 300 dollar loss per launch unit before marketing and capex costs? That's a billion dollar loss on just unit sales alone before all other costs. You are totally delusional.

Sony's value argument was more grounded in hard reality in the sense they were giving you something that was genuinely costing 900 to produce for 599. Microsoft on the other hand is taking a tiny loss or making a marginal profit on the Bone according to all reasonable BOM estimates touted amongst analysts.
 
All I see is inferior hardware, Halo, Kinect, and RitoDew ads for $100 more than the PS4. That does not look good at all.
 
I would love if Albert can explain XBLG paywall to us. At least try to make us understand.

Pound for pound PSN+ is either on par and in some areas better than XBLG.

PSN+ features:
- Cloud saves (across all platforms)
- Trophy sync (free on PS4)
- Auto-Updates (free on PS4)
- Beta invites (across all platforms)
- Instant Game Collection (across all platforms including 2 free game at PS4 launch)
- Game Trials (across all platforms)
- Major discounts (across all platforms)
- Online Multi player (PS4 only)

PSN FREE Online features:
- Media apps (Netflix, Youtube, Hulu Plus, PSN Live Events, etc.)
- Game DVR (Devs have the ability to turn off the Share button to avoid spoilers)
- Game Streaming on Twitch/Ustream
- Watch Live Streams
- Party Chat, Text/audio messages, Cam chat etc.
- Web Browsing
- Remote Play
- Trophy sync (free on PS4)
- Auto-Updates (free on PS4)
- Playstation App

TBD:
- Cloud Gaming/Gaiki (most likely won't be free but no word on whether or not it will be part of PSN+)

XBL:
- Single player games
- Demos
- Text/audio messages

XBL GOLD:
- Media apps (Netflix, Youtube, ESPN, etc.)
- Online Multiplayer
- SmartMatch (Goes with Multiplayer but MS has it listed separate so fuck it)
- Cloud saves
- Game DVR (supported games only)
- Upload Studio (supported games only)
- Game Streaming on Twitch
- Party Chat
- Skype (so far exclusive to X1)
- Discounts
- Beta invites
- Web Browsing
- New NFL app
- X1 TV Guide
- Auto-Updates
- SmartGlass

TBD:
- Cloud Gaming ( I assume any SP game that uses "cloud" will need XBLG)
 
The bone would have to be cheaper than PS4 even without Kinect to offer better value since it's inferior hardware. Microsoft are in a tough situation and they are starting to realise it.
 
The problem MS have with convincing anyone of the value of Kinect 2 is they've already failed to deliver any compelling gaming experiences on Kinect 1. Whilst the tech will undoubtedly be better I think its just a fundamental limitation of camera based control and I don't see future games offering anything new.

I think you could sell people on a bunch of voice control related features - but surely there is a more cost effect way of implementing them than via a high BOM cost camera?
 
I would love if Albert can explain XBLG paywall to us. At least try to make us understand.

Pound for pound PSN+ is either on par and in some areas better than XBLG.

PSN+ features:
- Cloud saves (across all platforms)
- Trophy sync (free on PS4)
- Auto-Updates (free on PS4)
- Beta invites (across all platforms)
- Instant Game Collection (across all platforms including 2 free game at PS4 launch)
- Game Trials (across all platforms)
- Major discounts (across all platforms)
- Online Multi player (PS4 only)

PSN FREE Online features:
- Media apps (Netflix, Youtube, Hulu Plus, PSN Live Events, etc.)
- Game DVR (Devs have the ability to turn off the Share button to avoid spoilers)
- Game Streaming on Twitch/Ustream
- Watch Live Streams
- Party Chat, Text/audio messages, Cam chat etc.
- Web Browsing
- Remote Play
- Trophy sync (free on PS4)
- Auto-Updates (free on PS4)
- Playstation App

TBD:
- Cloud Gaming/Gaiki (most likely won't be free but no word on whether or not it will be part of PSN+)

XBL:
- Single player games
- Demos
- Text/audio messages

XBL GOLD:
- Media apps (Netflix, Youtube, ESPN, etc.)
- Online Multiplayer
- SmartMatch (Goes with Multiplayer but MS has it listed separate so fuck it)
- Cloud saves
- Game DVR (supported games only)
- Upload Studio (supported games only)
- Game Streaming on Twitch
- Party Chat
- Skype (so far exclusive to X1)
- Discounts
- Beta invites
- Web Browsing
- New NFL app
- X1 TV Guide
- Auto-Updates
- SmartGlass

TBD:
- Cloud Gaming ( I assume any SP game that uses "cloud" will need XBLG)

You forgot f2p games and even subscription based games like Elder Scrolls Online. Behind paywall on XBO and free access (though still needing the subscription for ESO) on PS4. It costs $20 per month to play Elder Scrolls Online on XBO.

I get that Kinect offers value for media. I get that, and that really shouldn't be the argument for "value". But media functions locked behind paywall as well as things like f2p games is inexcusable, especially if they desire to control the living room and they're trying to compete with things like Apple TV and with smart TV's that are already introducing voice-controlled navigation. It's ludicrous.
 
"Better services" is hardly a way to sell a $100 price difference when those services all require an additional paid subscription.

I lol'd. Hard.
No reason to. Believe it or not there is an audience for what MS is doing with the Xbox. Games, TV integration, voice, Kinect, etc.

Its getting people on the fence thats the real challenge.
 
I see the Xbox One as a better value because of the controller, interface, Kinect sensor, and most importantly the games. PS4 doesn't have any games I care about yet while XB1 has quite a few.
 
The thing is that 7 years ago, Blu-Ray movies had a significant and tangible enhancement to picture and sound compared to DVD's. You took a PS3 home and rented or purchased some blu-ray movies and you were blown away by the quality of the picture and sound. It also had the components and firmware updates to quickly become an upconverting DVD player that rivaled the picture quality of upconverting DVD players costing thousands of dollars.

Snip....

I mentioned in my earlier post that imo, blu ray was probably worth it in the first year yes

Again perceived value is different for everyone
 
Of course it's up to them to prove the admission price is worth it. How did this attract so much attention and become a conversation? 0_o
 
One of the reasons I like interacting with this community, despite the shellacking a I get, is because I generally believe that you guys are one of the most insightful and thoughtful places around. When we say or announce something, I read these threads because I've felt like people here would have a brighter view of how this industry works, so I can get some really good and interesting points of view on complicated topics. If I just wanted to get confirmation that everything we were doing was awesome, I'd post on a fan site.

Instead, I come here, and take the beatings, in hopes of learning something.

So that said - is this story *really* worth 10 pages (and counting)?

People do realize I wasn't walking around PAX with a sign that says "Please ask me about the price! Will spout PR nonsense for food!"

I was there doing pre-scheduled interviews. That means people ask us to get an interview, I get to sit in a chair all day. Then journalists come to me and ask questions, and I try to give good answers. We don't censor or review beforehand, so I have to be prepared for a wide variety of questions like this, and we have a very limited amount of time (sometimes like 15 min after we've met each other, etc.) so the answers are truncated because the interviewer has a page full of questions.

So I answer the question I was asked about price. I do it without talking s**t about our competitors, or putting them down. I talk about why I think WE will be better. I make it clear it's what "I think" and that it's "our job" to prove our belief. Overall, absolutely *nothing* in what I said disparages anyone or ducks the question.

As for the shoulder shrug. I have no control over what part of what I say gets put in print. I'm not in control of the tone of how it's written, and it's the writers choice what to include or not. The shoulder shrug was really an involuntary physical action - because, well, I was sort of running out of things to say. Think of it as my body saying "well, that's it" or "I don't know what else to say" so you shrug.

I'm happy to reflect on whether or not you agree with what I say. I think someone like Blueblur1 put together a thoughtful point of view, versus making this unnecessarily personal. I was there to talk up Xbox One. Talk about what I think is good about our platform. Just because some people don't agree, doesn't make it PR nonsense.

Anyway, feel free to continue.

For anyone at PAX, who's on the floor playing our games and their games, I'd love to see what people think. I was only their Friday, otherwise I'd meetup and chat in person.

You are doing a great job. I certainly appreciate you keep in touch with the community and willing to have a constructive debate.
 
Love the attitude....but being completely honest, MS is doing an absolute crap job of convincing me the value is there...

That's because outside of Kinect only games, there's no real advantage. And honestly, 99% of Kinect only games are and will be complete shit. It's just the nature of the "controller"

They won't be convincing many people.
 
One of the reasons I like interacting with this community, despite the shellacking a I get, is because I generally believe that you guys are one of the most insightful and thoughtful places around. When we say or announce something, I read these threads because I've felt like people here would have a brighter view of how this industry works, so I can get some really good and interesting points of view on complicated topics. If I just wanted to get confirmation that everything we were doing was awesome, I'd post on a fan site.

Instead, I come here, and take the beatings, in hopes of learning something.

So that said - is this story *really* worth 10 pages (and counting)?

People do realize I wasn't walking around PAX with a sign that says "Please ask me about the price! Will spout PR nonsense for food!"

I was there doing pre-scheduled interviews. That means people ask us to get an interview, I get to sit in a chair all day. Then journalists come to me and ask questions, and I try to give good answers. We don't censor or review beforehand, so I have to be prepared for a wide variety of questions like this, and we have a very limited amount of time (sometimes like 15 min after we've met each other, etc.) so the answers are truncated because the interviewer has a page full of questions.

So I answer the question I was asked about price. I do it without talking s**t about our competitors, or putting them down. I talk about why I think WE will be better. I make it clear it's what "I think" and that it's "our job" to prove our belief. Overall, absolutely *nothing* in what I said disparages anyone or ducks the question.

As for the shoulder shrug. I have no control over what part of what I say gets put in print. I'm not in control of the tone of how it's written, and it's the writers choice what to include or not. The shoulder shrug was really an involuntary physical action - because, well, I was sort of running out of things to say. Think of it as my body saying "well, that's it" or "I don't know what else to say" so you shrug.

I'm happy to reflect on whether or not you agree with what I say. I think someone like Blueblur1 put together a thoughtful point of view, versus making this unnecessarily personal. I was there to talk up Xbox One. Talk about what I think is good about our platform. Just because some people don't agree, doesn't make it PR nonsense.

Anyway, feel free to continue.

For anyone at PAX, who's on the floor playing our games and their games, I'd love to see what people think. I was only their Friday, otherwise I'd meetup and chat in person.
Wow. Respect for showing up in this lions den, and staying calm enough to type such a response. Well said.
I lol'd. Hard.
why? Because people are actually fine with the 500$/£ price tag? For the content/hardware it offers?
 
Instead, I come here, and take the beatings, in hopes of learning something.
meetup and chat in person.

First of all, thanks for posting and reading from us.

I hope Microsoft realizes that they've lost many of their long time fans to its competitor after the initial reveal, including myself. It's going to take a long time for you to earn back that respect. The Xbox brand has always been synonymous with power and the route you've chosen shows you do not fully understand your hardcore fans (at least hardcores like myself). All of that "marketing research" could not predict the current outcome of your project. You can keep chasing that audience that eludes you, and you can continually try to reinvent the wheel, but you end up losing what most successful businesses have - a focus. Better luck next time...
 
Has Microsoft even shown anyone using one of these? If using Kinect is so great, it should be obvious from seeing it in practice. Just talking about what it MIGHT do isn't going to convince anyone.
 
They should get Xbone and Kinect on Ellen and a bunch of other talk shows and show why Kinect is such a amazing device and show why it's worth far more than the measly Benjamin that you're paying over the PS4.
 
I see the Xbox One as a better value because of the controller, interface, Kinect sensor, and most importantly the games. PS4 doesn't have any games I care about yet while XB1 has quite a few.

I love the old "ps3/4 doesn't have games I like". It went on for the last seven years on the PS3, now it is migrating to the PS4. It's the perfect out, completely subjective and most likely a complete lie. Well at least the old controller cop out should die, but probably won't.
 
I love the old "ps3/4 doesn't have games I like". It went on for the last seven years on the PS3, now it is migrating to the PS4. It's the perfect out, completely subjective and most likely a complete lie. Well at least the old controller cop out should die, but probably won't.

:lol

Wat? now people are not entitled to choose which software experience they prefer, he is a liar for saying his choice does not align with yours?

Good god SMH
 
why? Because people are actually fine with the 500$/£ price tag? For the content/hardware it offers?

Exactly. I have no problem with the price.

Think of it like this. What is the hardware like compared to the PS3? 10 times better I think is the numbers being touted around.

How much did everyone pay for a PS3 at launch? More than an XONE.

Case closed.
 
I love the old "ps3/4 doesn't have games I like". It went on for the last seven years on the PS3, now it is migrating to the PS4. It's the perfect out, completely subjective and most likely a complete lie. Well at least the old controller cop out should die, but probably won't.

People say that right up until they play the Uncharted series. That series did alot of good for the PS3. They need to continue that series for at least another game even if the main talent behind it moves on.
 
You know what, I believe him. The price difference will not hold them back.

- Xbox has by far the better games announced so far including the launch lineup
- Xbox has always had a vastly superior online service
- Controlling everything by voice will be a better experience for UI
- Using Xbox to control my other media will make my life easier

Just because people don't want to pay for it, doesnt mean the service won't be amazing.

For price to not hold them back, the pluses offered by the console would have to be objectively better than what's offered by the less expensive competition (or just so compelling that it's objectively worth that price, Sony and Nintendo be damned).

The things you list are all subjective and, though they may work to convince you, you can't then extrapolate that into it convincing loads of others.

That's not to say Xbone will fail. In fact, I see it dominating the US as much as the 360 is doing. But my guess is that it'll have little to do with voice and motion gimmicks and more to do with gamers following their friends to play Calluhdoody and the like.

They should get Xbone and Kinect on Ellen and a bunch of other talk shows and show why Kinect is such a amazing device and show why it's worth far more than the measly Benjamin that you're paying over the PS4.

So they should lie to Ellen? That's just mean.
 
So that said - is this story *really* worth 10 pages (and counting)?
You gotta understand, this is console wars time.

They should get Xbone and Kinect on Ellen and a bunch of other talk shows and show why Kinect is such a amazing device and show why it's worth far more than the measly Benjamin that you're paying over the PS4.
I will be shocked if the Xbox One doesn't make rounds on all the talk shows to show off Kinect.
 
You gotta understand, this is console wars time.


I will be shocked if the Xbox One doesn't make rounds on all the talk shows to show off Kinect.

Hell, Microsoft showed of the Zune on Ellen back in the day. It didn't help anything, but it shows they'll go anywhere to market their stuff.
 
It would take a great deal to sway me. I still can't ever picture myself paying $100 more for an inferior spec'd machine with the typical lower value-proposition that MS has shown me time and time again (compared to the competition) . The only MS franchise I truly loved was Halo but I haven't taken a liken to the most recent entries because they've gone too far away from what made competitive Halo great (the only console FPS franchise I used to respect on a competitive level).

All that will really matter is how the casuals perceive the new consoles. Does the Xbox One have enough pull as a brand to charge (scam imo) an extra $100 out of consumers the same way Apple has been able to with their competition for years? Time will tell.
 
Exactly. I have no problem with the price.

Think of it like this. What is the hardware like compared to the PS3? 10 times better I think is the numbers being touted around.

How much did everyone pay for a PS3 at launch? More than an XONE.

Case closed.

They say 8-10 times the power of 360 for Xbone.

PS4 is 10 times the power of PS3. And cheaper than Xbone.

So that argument falls apart right about there.
 
Top Bottom