Support NeoGAF

[SEGAvangelist]

The last time Microsoft failed to gain mindshare and traction with a console was the first Xbox. And what'd they do? Well, they didn't fight tooth and nail. They dropped it like it never existed, stopped making games for it, and released a new console, completely shitting on those who had bought the damn thing.

Their track record doesn't bode well for Xbone adopters if sales stay low.

You're not taking everything into consideration. MS launched Xbox years after the competition and knew in order to compete with PS3 that they would have to launch a competing console BEFORE the PS3 could come out. It was a good decision since they gained incredible market share.

 

[HiiiLife]

Microsoft. Don't think, feeeeeeeeeeeel.

 

[NullPointer]

3. Any game usage of voice controls have been done long before Kinect:

Now thats one game I can honestly see being much better with Kinect.

An EndWar 2 might even get me to pick one up.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

isn't it strange how the people employed by the company selling the product always back it as the best?

every time i see a reggie thread i just wonder if this is the time he'll finally say another console is better than nintendo's.

That'd be amazing.

Reggie (disheveled, five days of beard growth, stinks to high heaven): Welcome to E3. I wanna kick things off by talking about the kill streak I had last night in Calluhdoody. My Xbox Live friends are so jelly.

Random Member of the Press in the Audience: Uh...Reggie? Shouldn't you be talking about the new Mario game or someth--

Reggie: Man, fuck Mario. Fucking red jumpsuit wearing bitch. Saving princesses all the damn time. He's a plumber, for fuck's sake! He should be working on pipes! (knocks back a slug of whiskey from a bottle he pulls from inside his stained suit jacket) I got a pipe you can work on, you kart-crashing fuck. (collapses in a heap)

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

The XB1 is horrible at controlling a DVR or media server which any multimedia enthusiast would have. The Harmony remote, or any universal remote for that matter, would have no such problem.

How do you know that X1 is horrible at controlling a DVR?

There is nothing stopping Microsoft from building DVR control into the system via the controller or a very cheap Xbox remote like they put out every generation. They have to program the Kinect's IR blaster for cablebox/Tivo controls anyway, so why wouldn't they just map some of those controls to the standard Xbox One controller? Just as I can use my current Xbox 360 to watch DVD movies and control the DVD menus there is no reason why they can't do the same for DVR controls.

Also I've mentioned this before, but cable companies like Comcast are getting ready to move DVR functionality to the cloud. You will not be accessing the DVR recordings locally anymore. If that's the case the Xbox One will work fine for DVR if Comcast and others create Xbox One apps as I'm sure they're already doing for iPad. Thinking about the long term future of the system, Xbox One will be fine for where DVR technology is headed.

 

[beast786]

Microsoft can certainly convince consumers that the Xbox One is worth $500.
In today's tech world, that really isn't that much money for a device that you'll use for 5-7 years.

A harmony remote system is anywhere from $250-350.
A semi-capable Smart TV like the 2013 Samsung model will be outdated by next year and costs double a normal TV.
An AppleTV costs $100 and a new model releases, what, every two years?

The Xbox One offers better control of your living room than a Harmony remote, will have a richer application marketplace and better UX than a Smart TV, will have a better app/games marketplace than a Apple TV while maintaining an objectively equal games marketplace to a PS4, and it is the first device to allow hands free control of your living room.

You can buy a PS4 and a Harmony remote system for $650-750 (+ $60 if you want camera). Or you can buy an Xbox One + PS4 for $900.
You can buy a Samsung Smart TV + PS4 for $2000+ or you can buy a normal HDTV + Xbox One + PS4 + 4 games + 2 years of PS+ and Gold for same price.
There is lots of value in an Xbox One if you want a top-of-the-line entertainment system.

If you don't care about any of that entertainment stuff or Xbox exclusives, and you just want to play games, then all power to you to buy the cheaper PS4, that is just logical.
But to say that consumers can't be convinced that the Xbox One is worth $500, and even $60/year, is a bit naive.

you should make the same list for ps3 when it launched.

 

[hwy_61]

The Surface? Nah, not exactly. It has the same tile interface as Windows 8 but I can get a lot more work done on it than an iPad because of the keyboard and it coming with Microsoft office. Though I also like the Windows Phones too. I guess you should check it out at best buy if your thinking of getting one. It's great and that USB 3.0 port is amazing. I should add you can switch to desktop mode as well.

I'll give it a try one day. I had a Nokia lumia 920, and it was awful.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

You're not taking everything into consideration. MS launched Xbox years after the competition and knew in order to compete with PS3 that they would have to launch a competing console BEFORE the PS3 could come out. It was a good decision since they gained incredible market share.

PS2 NA launch: October 2000

Xbox NA launch: November 2001

A year later. Yet they cut all support for it well before Sony did PS2 (remember, Sony still released games for PS2 years after PS3's release).

Past history doesn't bode well.

 

[timlot]

Sony did say that PS eye supports facial recognition and voice navigation, so many of the OS features may be also possible on PS4. Only if you think they aren't of value you aren't forced to buy the camera. And even if you do it is still cheaper.

Oh I seriously doubt that. 1080p camera HDMI input and 3 OS running simultaneously to do fast app switching and snap viewing. Different level.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

PS2 NA launch: October 2000

Xbox NA launch: November 2001

A year later. Yet they cut all support for it well before Sony did PS2 (remember, Sony still released games for PS2 years after PS3's release).

Past history doesn't bode well.

Dreamcast.

 

[EventHorizon]

You don't know that...? Recent news has said the Xbox One can control the DVR. We haven't seen to what extent yet.

It could control it with the IR blaster but you won't be able to use voice to search for prerecorded shows because the Xbox will have no way of knowing what has been recorded. And how are you going to navigate the menus of the DVR? By yelling Down, Down, Enter, Down, Play? Or how are you going to skip commercials?

The fact is that unless you are integrated deeply into those devices, button presses are the best way to navigate them. Voice control is good for being able to directly do the action that you want. It is not good for actions that require multiple commands to complete, like browsing a UI.

 

[NullPointer]

That'd be amazing.

Reggie (disheveled, five days of beard growth, stinks to high heaven): Welcome to E3. I wanna kick things off by talking about the kill streak I had last night in Calluhdoody. My Xbox Live friends are so jelly.

Random Member of the Press in the Audience: Uh...Reggie? Shouldn't you be talking about the new Mario game or someth--

Reggie: Man, fuck Mario. Fucking red jumpsuit wearing bitch. Saving princesses all the damn time. He's a plumber, for fuck's sake! He should be working on pipes! (knocks back a slug of whiskey from a bottle he pulls from inside his stained suit jacket) I got a pipe you can work on, you kart-crashing fuck. (collapses in a heap)

Perfection.

 

[BlastProcessing]

iPhone altered the smartphone landscape on day one. Sales were high (sure, not as high as they are now, but that's just a given) and literally every smartphone maker set to making their own ripoff device.

If everyone decides to follow Microsoft down the rabbit hole they want to drag the industry down, where gimmicks are forced on you and ownership of physical goods is verboten, I'm done with gaming.

Sales really weren't high. So much so that they had to drop the price $200 two months after release. The iPhone didn't really take off until the 3G was $199 and had 3rd party apps.

 

[Freki]

Dreamcast.

Where's the relation to MS or Sony?

 

[Quadraphonic]

Even if it was worth 100$+ in value over the PS4 it doesn't mean people will pay that. They will wait for the pricedrop and I would be extremely surprised if that doesn't happen quite early with dropped Kinect.

Exactly. The PS3, even at $399 for the 20GB at launch, was a better value than the Xbox 360. But the Xbox 360 debuted cheaper and earlier and that made all the difference.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Where's the relation to MS or Sony?

It was still competition as it was part of the generation. That's why I said "years."

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

The last time Microsoft was in a crunch they actually gave us some really good games. Keep the pressure on them Sony. You'll be making my X1 experience all the better :3. I just got a MS Surface and love it, amazing productivity.

My friend had a Surface.

Had because he hated it and returned it for an iPad. A tablet is only as good as its app selection, and iOS has Windows 8 trumped thousands of times over.

Also, Bluetooth keyboard+iPad=a match made in heaven.

 

[Garrett 2U]

you should make the same list for ps3 when it launched.

This really reminds me of all these PS3 value calculations people were doing when it launched to demonstrate that despite its higher price point, PS3 offered better value than Xbox 360 under certain scenarios.
They were as correct as you are, but they mattered very little in the end.

Okay, and the PS3 sold really well.
Plenty of people bought the PS3 for BluRay.

But it's a paywall to use all the TV guide stuff so...kinda?

No, TV Guide isn't behind paywall anymore.
http://www.gamefront.com/microsoft-xbox-live-gold-not-needed-for-xbox-one-tv-features/

Grasping at straws level: Expert

Nice counter argument.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

Exactly. The PS3, even at $399 for the 20GB at launch, was a better value than the Xbox 360. But the Xbox 360 debuted cheaper and earlier and that made all the difference.

$499 and $599 were the only two PS3 SKUs at launch.

PS3 was $200 more a year later. Xbox One is $100 more the same year. The comparison of PS3 and X1 is not equivalent in either price or time of release.

 

[ChiliManiac]

I'll give it a try one day. I had a Nokia lumia 920, and it was awful.

That phone was a terrible phone agreed...worst one Nokia ever put out. It was a failed attempt at making a low cost alternative as powerful as the iPhone.

 

[Freki]

It was still competition as it was part of the generation. That's why I said "years."

Sorry - I still don't see what the dreamcast has to do with MS dropping support early compared to Sony...

 

[SEGAvangelist]

My friend had a Surface.

Had because he hated it and returned it for an iPad. A tablet is only as good as its app selection, and iOS has Windows 8 trumped thousands of times over.

Also, Bluetooth keyboard+iPad=a match made in heaven.

iOS vs Windows 8? What message board am I on?

 

[ypo]

Too bad they've done a piss poor job of convincing anyone.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

Dreamcast.

Dreamcast wasn't competition. It was stillborn. Microsoft made no bones that they were going after Sony's slice of the pie with the Xbox. And they released a year after PS2, replaced a year before Sony, and stopped producing any games for the console years before Sony did.

iOS vs Windows 8? What message board am I on?

Good point. Apologies.

 

[ChiliManiac]

My friend had a Surface.

Had because he hated it and returned it for an iPad. A tablet is only as good as its app selection, and iOS has Windows 8 trumped thousands of times over.

Also, Bluetooth keyboard+iPad=a match made in heaven.

Apps don't make or break a device for me. Cause I mostly do content creation and not media consumption. Though I can see the argument.

 

[Twin Tails]

getting it, still dont know what the Kinect really offers.
That harmonix game looks awesome though.

 

[Prince Vultan]

Okay, and the PS3 sold really well.
Plenty of people bought the PS3 for BluRay.

After a major price cut and rebranding, sure.

Those first couple of years it sold like shit though.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Sorry - I still don't see what the dreamcast has to do with MS dropping support early compared to Sony...

He was correcting my "years after the competition" point by explaining how Xbox came out a year after PS2. I was defending my statement by mentioning Dreamcast. Xbox was 2 years late to the gen since Sega started it with Dreamcast. MS realized they couldn't catch up being that far behind, so they decided to cut support and beat PS3 to the punch. It worked.

As far as hardware support, if MS had cut Xbox 360 support, then a point could be made. Halo 4 came out less than a year ago, GoW:J in March and Fable Anniversary is in the pipeline so they aren't canning 360 support.

 

[Biker19]

Just because a certain product costs more than the other product, doesn't mean it's better. It doesn't objectively make something worth more from an economic standpoint. Cost =/= Worth.

Of course its $100 more.

All because of that stupid camera.

Which nobody even gives a fuck about Kinect anymore. Most casuals/non-gamers aren't going to shell out $500 w/tax just for another version of Kinect when they can get themselves a brand new smartphone or a new computer tablet for that price, nor are they going to pay that much money along with a Xbox Live Gold subscription just to chat with someone on Skype or to access other free apps like Netflix & Hulu when they can do that on plenty of other gaming platforms or other electronic devices for free without being behind a paywall.

 

[EventHorizon]

How do you know that X1 is horrible at controlling a DVR?

There is nothing stopping Microsoft from building DVR control into the system via the controller or a very cheap Xbox remote like they put out every generation. They have to program the Kinect's IR blaster for cablebox/Tivo controls anyway, so why wouldn't they just map some of those controls to the standard Xbox One controller? Just as I can use my current Xbox 360 to watch DVD movies and control the DVD menus there is no reason why they can't do the same for DVR controls.

That is a lot of steps to take to end up having the exact same fuctionality as simply picking up your DVR remote. So you'd pay $100 more just to use a different remote control. How exactly would Microsoft market such a "feature"?

 

[Phire Phox]

getting it, still dont know what the Kinect really offers.

Facial and body recognition, voice control, 1080p camera for Skype, and a revolutionary new way to play games.

 

[ChiliManiac]

getting it, still dont know what the Kinect really offers.
That harmonix game looks awesome though.

Supposedly the people who made Journey That Game Company are working on a Kinect game. I really want to see what it's gona be about. Cause Journey was incredible.

 

[Freki]

He was correcting my "years after the competition" point by explaining how Xbox came out a year after PS2. I was defending my statement by mentioning Dreamcast. Xbox was 2 years late to the gen since Sega started it with Dreamcast. MS realized they couldn't catch up being that far behind, so they decided to cut support and beat PS3 to the punch. It worked.

Ahhh - now I see what your are getting at!
This doesn't explain Microsofts lack of support for the 360 in the later years compared to the start of the generation though. (Blue Dragon, Tales of Vesperia, Bioshock, Infinite Undiscovery, Eternal Sonata and many other more or less exclusive games I am forgetting)

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

Facial and body recognition, voice control, 1080p camera for Skype, and a revolutionary new way to play games.

The face and body stuff might be cool, voice control is old hat and just a slower way of doing what a button tap can do, I'd rather Skype on my iPad or phone while playing games/watching a movie/watching TV so the usable area of my screen doesn't shrink by a third, and motion controls are neither revolutionary nor precise enough to be anything other than a gimmick.

All IMO, of course.

 

[beast786]

Okay, and the PS3 sold really well.
Plenty of people bought the PS3 for BluRay.

.

It wasn't just Bluray.

it had memory slot
1080p vs 1080i
backward compatible
Web browser
HDMI port
Wifi

Yet they had to cut price aggreively . obviously not enough people cared for the value

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Ahhh - now I see what your are getting at!
This doesn't explain Microsofts lack of support for the 360 in the later years compared to the start of the generation though. (Blue Dragon, Tales of Vesperia, Bioshock, Infinite Undiscovery, Eternal Sonata and many other more or less exclusive games I am forgetting)

Xbox 360 was a year ahead of PS3, though, so you'd be better off comparing 360's last year with PS3 this year. Also, like I edited into my message earlier, Halo 4 and a new Gears of War did come out in the last year. With third party support as well 360 didn't have an awful year or anything.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

It wasn't just Bluray.

it had memory slot
1080p vs 1080i
backward compatible
Web browser
HDMI port
Wifi

Yet they had to cut price aggreively . obviously not enough people cared for the value

They didn't just cut the price, they cut out PS2 backward compatibility! And just after my PS2 had died.

 

[weevles]

At a $500 price point you aren't going to capture a wide audience. Only hardcore and niche customers can be convinced to buy in. Instead of trying to sell everyone everything at a high price, they should cut out the camera or whatever other fluff that isn't games or TV and work on getting the system into homes and let the accessories come over time.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

That is a lot of steps to take to end up having the exact same fuctionality as simply picking up your DVR remote. So you'd pay $100 more just to use a different remote control. How exactly would Microsoft market such a "feature"?

DVR control consists of the same exact controls they had to build into the OS for DVD/Blu-ray control.

I'm not sure what you're talking about "marketing." The Kinect has an IR blaster built into it so it can control every cable box or DVR in existence. All they have to program is the IR codes for: menu, up/down/left/right and select. Now your game controller or Xbox remote controls the DVR.


And according to Nielsen though growing, DVR watching makes up a very small percentage of how people actually watch TV:

Nielsen Study Shows Vast Majority of TV Viewing is Still Done Live

No, TV Guide isn't behind paywall anymore.
http://www.gamefront.com/microsoft-xbox-live-gold-not-needed-for-xbox-one-tv-features/

Smart move if true. Hopefully they've realized there are much better ways to pay for TV guide data than by paywalling the entire functionality.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

People are seriously posting expensive smart tv commercials now to discredit the feature set of the Xbox One?

Not only are a lot of these tvs quite a bit more expensive than an Xbox One, but even if you're talking about a cheaper Xfinitiy X1 or whatever, neither of these things come with the capability to play all the same kinds of games the Xbox One will play.

So a lot of time is wasted attempting to discredit the Xbox One's feature set by pointing out other devices that do something similar. There is no cheaper device that offers all the same games, exclusives included, along with the features and services that the Xbox One does in a single $500 package, and there's no more expensive device that does that, either.

 

[Mercury Land-Snake]

Facial and body recognition, voice control, 1080p camera for Skype, and a revolutionary new way to play games.

Only on the Xbox One(tm) Games and Entertainment System from Microsoft.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

He was correcting my "years after the competition" point by explaining how Xbox came out a year after PS2. I was defending my statement by mentioning Dreamcast. Xbox was 2 years late to the gen since Sega started it with Dreamcast. MS realized they couldn't catch up being that far behind, so they decided to cut support and beat PS3 to the punch. It worked.

As far as hardware support, if MS had cut Xbox 360 support, then a point could be made. Halo 4 came out less than a year ago, GoW:J in March and Fable Anniversary is in the pipeline so they aren't canning 360 support.

But my point with the comparison of release dates was that Microsoft has shown how poorly they support a console that doesn't sell well. They don't support it at all. When it released in relation to the beginning of the console generation isn't really relevant.

They released a year after PS2, got creamed, and released a new console a year before Sony. And again, unlike Sony, once they released their new console, good luck finding a new game on the old console.

My point is that if past history is anything to go by, Xbone owners had better hope the thing sells like gangbusters or it'll be an expensive paperweight in four years.

 

[Twin Tails]

At a $500 price point you aren't going to capture a wide audience. Only hardcore and niche customers can be convinced to buy in. Instead of trying to sell everyone everything at a high price, they should cut out the camera or whatever other fluff that isn't games or TV and work on getting the system into homes and let the accessories come over time.

I think you underestimate the average consumer.

 

[foogles]

Well see about that.
But considering 100 more mainly because of Kinect it seems and still having apps behind a pay wall might not bode well this time.

Yeah, but not everyone's a GAFfer. Most people don't know about the paywall and they won't find out until it's too late.

They will see that two big consoles are coming out and that one's $100 more than the other. They *may* know about Kinect. They probably won't know much about Titanfall since it's coming out months after launch.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

The last time Microsoft failed to gain mindshare and traction with a console was the first Xbox. And what'd they do? Well, they didn't fight tooth and nail. They dropped it like it never existed, stopped making games for it, and released a new console, completely shitting on those who had bought the damn thing.

Their track record doesn't bode well for Xbone adopters if sales stay low.

I disagree, they actually did fight tooth and nail. Kaz Hirai made his famous "the gap is widening" claim way back in 2002, and he was right, yet Microsoft kept pushing hard, with Live, with innovative new services like XBLA, with plentiful first party games, and just as many third party deals.

A couple of years later they did drop the console, but the reasons for that are well publicized - they were bleeding money, because of unfavorable deals with Intel and Nvidia they stood no chance of ever breaking even, they had a lot to gain by launching first, and they simply couldn't afford to launch after Sony again (if you can recall, PS3 was initially supposed to launch in spring 2006, Sony announced it at E3 2005). The two situations simply do not compare.

 

[ChiliManiac]

I think you underestimate the average consumer.

That and the X1 is a consumer electronics device. Not a games console. It just happens that it plays games. It's basically allowing for media consumption through apps on the TV. Pretty much makes your TV a multimedia computer and your paying a premium for that experience. The PS4 isn't marketed as a do everything device but a games console hence why it appeals to us at GAF more. Though it's not hard to see exactly were Microsoft is going with this.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

DVR control consists of the same exact controls they had to build into the OS for DVD/Blu-ray control.

I'm not sure what you're talking about "marketing." The Kinect has an IR blaster built into it so it can control every cable box or DVR in existence. All they have to program is the IR codes for: menu, up/down/left/right and select. Now your game controller or Xbox remote controls the DVR.


And just a reminder DVR watching makes up a very small percentage of how people actually watch TV:



Nielsen Study Shows Vast Majority of TV Viewing is Still Done Live

Neilsen also finds that fewer people are actually watching TV, so it's a shrinking market (http://variety.com/2011/tv/news/nielsen-sees-shrinking-tv-universe-1118042915/).

Microsoft looked to the future and saw a 100 year old technology. Maybe the next Xbox will be able to control my cotton gin.

Spoiler

Relax, I'm joking.

 

[Twin Tails]

The last time Microsoft failed to gain mindshare and traction with a console was the first Xbox. And what'd they do? Well, they didn't fight tooth and nail. They dropped it like it never existed, stopped making games for it, and released a new console, completely shitting on those who had bought the damn thing.

Their track record doesn't bode well for Xbone adopters if sales stay low.

Doubt they'd just stop supporting their brand new console, also Xbox was the jumping off point for LIVE and come on the OG xbox was just a Halo 2 box.

 

[isual]

total horseshit that it's worth more than the ps4.
Only game that's interesting to me is RYSE , but I 've got ROME 2 to tide me over.

I'll wait for the EVENTUAL X1 without kinect SKU.

PS4: cheaper, better, and truly for the core.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

Doubt they'd just stop supporting their brand new console, also Xbox was the jumping off point for LIVE and come on the OG xbox was just a Halo 2 box.

It was a Halo 2 box because Microsoft was more interested in leap-frogging Sony for the next gen than they were in releasing more compelling titles.