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[velociraptor]

Rarely cpu bound at 30/60fps, at 30 i would say never nowadays.

Modern new paradigm is a simple fact. 3D performance is almost exclusively GPU performance. That's why theses consoles are so gpu centric.

Even a game like BF3 is not bound by cpus

Kinda funny how a multi threading capable cpu like the i3 is performing "better" than bigger ones.

An i3 is better than an i7 for BF3? Wow.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

Maybe Microsoft are making more of a strategic decision based on where they think they require more units, and not necessarily a decision based on them not having the required supplies, I don't know. I sure as heck wouldn't hesitate to shift many more units to the USA in anticipation that, at some point, PS4s may run dry, leading to people opting to grab themselves an Xbox One. When I was desperate to get my hands on a 360 in 2005, I would've damn near bought any new videogame console at that point just to tide me over, but there was no other alternative. Microsoft could be stuffing the USA with more units to pounce on when PS4s are out of stock.

They may not outsell the PS4, but they may steal a few sales around the margins. Needless to say, he does have a point that they're showing real units at many of these shows, and increases in clock speed aren't something you generally do when you have serious production issues. it seems like production is going a lot better than thought, but we don't know how many units that translates to. Either way, the PS4 possibly outselling the Xbox One won't somehow suggest that the production issues were true, but they should at least, in addition to the availability of xbox Ones in stores give us an idea of how production went for Microsoft.



Showing us your dirty work

This.

If I'm Microsoft, and I have X millions of units of consoles to sell, just for the sake of argument, let's say 3 million, I'm going to push them to the markets that historically have proven most supportive.

Why would I allocate, say, 300k of my 3million at launch to a place like Japan that is likely to still have units sitting on store shelves through the holidays due to lack of interest? Far better to push the bulk of the units to the areas I think they will sell-through the most, in the hopes that more units in houses will equal more software sales (which is where the real money is for them anyway).

I mean seriously (figuratively speaking), if I've got a warehouse full of ice, I'm not going to start shipping it to Alaska and Antartica just so I can say I shipped to two more countries. I'm going to ship that shit to the goddamn Sahara.

Just shut up and buy what you like folks. Stop trying to piss in the other side's bath water. If you want the most "powerful" game machine out there, go build yourself a PC. If you want certain exclusives, buy that respective console. Or buy both consoles like I'm planning on doing and soak up the best exclusives from each.

It's the games that matter folks, the GAMES, and in the end a lot of fun will be had on both systems in my household I assure you.

 

[Brad Grenz]

We know the frequency was 1.594Ghz earlier in the year (from Killzone demos), and we haven't heard of any upclocks since then.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1736008#post1736008

if vgleaks is right (and at this point we know it is) ..the cpu clock is that

7 months ago the Xbox One CPU frequency was 1.6Ghz, too. We didn't know about a change until yesterday. Unless you mean rumors, in which case people have claimed the PS4 was getting an upgrade to 1.8Ghz or 2 Ghz at various times since February with no more or less credibility than any of the Xbox One rumors about an upgrade.

 

[cyberheater]

Rarely cpu bound at 30/60fps, at 30 i would say never nowadays.

Modern new paradigm is a simple fact. 3D performance is almost exclusively GPU performance. That's why theses consoles are so gpu centric.

Even a game like BF3 is not bound by cpus

Kinda funny how a multi threading capable cpu like the i3 is performing "better" than bigger ones.

That's not true on consoles. As an example. Didn't devs use the SPU's on the PS3 to aggressively cull geometry before feeding it to it's relative weak GPU?

 

[Zoator]

Maybe Microsoft are making more of a strategic decision based on where they think they require more units, and not necessarily a decision based on them not having the required supplies, I don't know. I sure as heck wouldn't hesitate to shift many more units to the USA in anticipation that, at some point, PS4s may run dry, leading to people opting to grab themselves an Xbox One. When I was desperate to get my hands on a 360 in 2005, I would've damn near bought any new videogame console at that point just to tide me over, but there was no other alternative. Microsoft could be stuffing the USA with more units to pounce on when PS4s are out of stock.

They may not outsell the PS4, but they may steal a few sales around the margins. Needless to say, he does have a point that they're showing real units at many of these shows, and increases in clock speed aren't something you generally do when you have serious production issues. it seems like production is going a lot better than thought, but we don't know how many units that translates to. Either way, the PS4 possibly outselling the Xbox One won't somehow suggest that the production issues were true, but they should at least, in addition to the availability of xbox Ones in stores give us an idea of how production went for Microsoft.



Showing us your dirty work

I would believe this if they didn't originally announce that they would launch in 22 territories at E3. It seems if it were a strategic decision, then that decision would have been made awhile ago, and would have remained unchanged. We know something caused them to change their minds in the 2 months between E3 and Gamescom, and fewer supply than they had originally anticipated seems to be the most plausible explanation. Obviously all we can do is speculate, though.

 

[velociraptor]

This 150mhz increase is pretty significant. In an already underpowered CPU, every little inch in performance helps.

 

[dr. apocalipsis]

if vgleaks is right (and at this point we know it is) ..the cpu clock is that

Yesterday, 800mhz and 1.6Ghz figures were right for Xbone too.

 

[TheKayle]

I'm in the office now and luckily I'm having a funny day with TheKayle comments.

im happy about it before or later ill organize a gaf bbq here in sicily and invite you all

 

[NBtoaster]

That demo was running on alpha kits, which didn't even have the Jaguar CPU.

Unlikely, as the February demo already used more than 4GB ram.

 

[Faith]

So the Xbox One CPU is 10% faster than the PS4? At least one advantage.

 

[TheKayle]

Yesterday, 800mhz and 1.6Ghz figures were right for Xbone too.

why ppl try to put me always "bad words" in my post?...im saying from what we know ps4 have 1.6ghz cpu thats it

im not saying nothing more

if they upclock ...well thats better for ps4

 

[big_z]

Rarely cpu bound at 30/60fps, at 30 i would say never nowadays.

Modern new paradigm is a simple fact. 3D performance is almost exclusively GPU performance. That's why theses consoles are so gpu centric.

Even a game like BF3 is not bound by cpus

Kinda funny how a multi threading capable cpu like the i3 is performing "better" than bigger ones.

this is a poor example. for single player BF3 cpu doenst have much effect but in multiplayer it does.

 

[JonathanPower]

Unlikely, as the February demo already used more than 4GB ram.

The dev kits had 8GB of RAM too.

 

[Phat Michael]

The conclusion that I can draw from each next gen revelation is summarized in a few lines

- MS paywall for multiplayer -> no way
- SONY paywall for multiplayer -> full party

- PS4 hardware advantage -> Better games for sony
- Xbone hardware advantage -> not decisive, + RROD possibilities

- PS4 hardware Customization -> Cerny god and better performance for PS4
- Customization in Xbone hardware -> Complications for developers

- Exclusive PS4 confirmed at 30 fps -> 30 fps is enough
- Exclusive Xbone confirmed at 30 fps -> Weak hardware

- Multiplatform with better framerate in PS4 -> Will be the trend throughout generation
- Multiplatform with better framerate in Xbone -> Lazy devs or microsoft moneyhatting

and so on...

LOL Man this is so true. Since May 29th, every damn xbox thread is derailed within 2 -3 posts which say "Power of the cloud" or "have you seen titanfall" and if you are excited about wanting an XB1 - you are a corporate, moneyhatted Microsoft Shill.

Also:

- Positive XB1 News -> 5 pages
- Negative xbox news or rumours -> Minimum 20 pages.

Actually, this thread is positive news about xbox and every 2nd post is a troll post or negative. If this was a thread about PS4 getting an upclock, it would just be full of praise wouldnt it?

 

[Alej]

im happy about it before or later ill organize a gaf bbq here in sicily and invite you all

Count me in. Would love to see the other half of you.

This is how i imagine your home btw...

Classy! Is the BBQ a Microsoft one?

 

[Wynnebeck]

So the Xbox One CPU is 10% faster than the PS4? At least one advantage.

?

 

[Faith]

?

The PS4 CPU is clocked @1.6Ghz. Or did I miss something?

 

[TheKayle]

Count me in. Would love to see the other half of you.

This is how i imagine your home btw...

Classy! The BBQ is a Microsoft one?

on the old 360 power brick!

 

[flipswitch]

Count me in. Would love to see the other half of you.

This is how i imagine your home btw...

Classy! Is the BBQ a Microsoft one?

That is one narrow shop. I can't imagine more than 1 person walking through there.

 

[TheKayle]

So the Xbox One CPU is 10% faster than the PS4? At least one advantage.

putting the shape in the playground

cpu on the xb1 have >30% advantage

 

[JonathanPower]

The PS4 CPU is clocked @1.6Ghz. Or did I miss something?

Yes, we don't know the PS4 CPU clock speed.

 

[Osiris]

10% is the clock
putting the shape in the playground

cpu on the xb1 have >30% advantage

You see, it's posts like this that cause you to be (justifiably) ridiculed.

You have no way of quantifying the amount of processing offloaded to the PS4's dedicated audio, so happily post a value that assumes no offloading at all?

Quite ridiculous.

 

[Alej]

That is one narrow shop. I can't imagine more than 1 person walking through there.

Maybe TheKayle isn't full of money. Seems legit.

on the old 360 power brick!

You know what's good.

 

[dr. apocalipsis]

So the Xbox One CPU is 10% faster than the PS4? At least one advantage.

Isn't it easier to say that current Xbone CPU is 10% faster than vanilla Jaguar?

At least, it is safer.

 

[CoG]

Actually, this thread is positive news about xbox and every 2nd post is a troll post or negative. If this was a thread about PS4 getting an upclock, it would just be full of praise wouldnt it?

You're complaining because Microsoft took it upon themselves to destroy their goodwill with gamers? You reap what you sow.

 

[tensuke]

Yesterday, 800mhz and 1.6Ghz figures were right for Xbone too.

We've known about the 53MHz GPU upclock for a while.

 

[goonergaz]

putting the shape in the playground

cpu on the xb1 have >30% advantage

lol, I love the math...so you assume all devs have to emulate shape (and also to 100%) on PS4?

 

[gaming_noob]

:/ Isn't helping either with the media trying to pump up the "console war" as well.

You're not helping by coming into Xbox threads and telling other posters they have a mental illness. That's the 15th post this year that you've used the term in regards to other people (using Search word by post). Why don't you just ignore the posts instead of insulting people?

 

[Wynnebeck]

The PS4 CPU is clocked @1.6Ghz. Or did I miss something?

We don't know what it is. Only what was rumored.

 

[Rourkey]

This comment probably isn't welcome here:

They will both be awesome!

 

[dead monkey uk]

I am jumping in this thread with not much knowledge of how CPU clocking works, but is it not possible to overclock a CPU/GPU post launch of the console through a firmware update? I thought I read something that this happened to the Vita.

 

[TheKayle]

You see, it's posts like this that cause you to be (justifiably) ridiculed.

You have no way of quantifying the amount of processing offloaded to the PS4's dedicated audio, so happily post a value that assumes no offloading at all?

Quite ridiculous.

someone did the math for me

(6 * 1.75) / (5 * 1.6) * 100% = 131.25% (31.25% advantage)

just taking only in consideration that shape can free up one core or more (as someone in the know said!)

if not 10% advantage

 

[Faith]

Devs should start seeing this soon - so any performance gains were happening on the 1.6 boxes. (everything at PAX was on the 1.6). This is a boost to developers on top of the optimizations going on.

Lastly - can I PLEASE finally get you over this "we're having production issues" thing that's going around? We increased the GPU 6%. We increased the CPU almost 10%. We have been showing retail boxes. We are now in full production.

So these increases were planned a while ago?

 

[DEADEVIL]

C'mon seriously? That was not a shot - only you guys would think that. I was in a meeting on my phone, shot out a quick tweet. Srsly.

Sony haven't announced the CPU speed, as people have noted. Plus - when I take a pot-shot at the competition I'm gonna be way more obvious than that. I'm not a fan of the passive-aggressive.

As I'm sure you've figured out - you don't announce something like this at the same time you're working on it. Obviously this has been in the works, but now that we're in full production we felt OK about announcing it.

Devs should start seeing this soon - so any performance gains were happening on the 1.6 boxes. (everything at PAX was on the 1.6). This is a boost to developers on top of the optimizations going on.

Lastly - can I PLEASE finally get you over this "we're having production issues" thing that's going around? We increased the GPU 6%. We increased the CPU almost 10%. We have been showing retail boxes. We are now in full production.

If at this point these facts don't outweigh random rumors...

Great news all around. Good to get the official word.

 

[Rourkey]

So these increases were planned a while ago?

I imagine they dont finalise the final MHZ until they test the retail boxes in stress situations and see what they can get away with.

Anything to that point is hypothetical surely

 

[TheKayle]

lol, I love the math...so you assume all devs have to emulate shape (and also to 100%) on PS4?

you know ps4 voice chat

now sony talked about voice recognition

..you know audio effects that cant be applied just streaming an mp3....

if not a core.....some threads? 20% ? (i would say more honestly)

 

[goonergaz]

someone did the math for me

(6 * 1.75) / (5 * 1.6) * 100% = 131.25% (31.25% advantage)

just taking only in consideration that shape can free up one core or more (as someone in the know said!)

if not 10% advantage

It can free up a core but you are assuming a whole core on PS4 will be dedicated to audio?

 

[Wynnebeck]

You're not helping by coming into Xbox threads and telling other posters they have a mental illness. That's the 15th post this year that you've used the term in regards to other people (using Search word by post). Why don't you just ignore the posts instead of insulting people?

Lol Having a complex or bias is not a mental illness so I don't know what you are talking about. However, trying to have a conversation about an upclock and then having Xbox fans use it as a platform to express their notion of bias on GAF is ridiculous. Also, I remember a time when meta-posting was banned so I'd tread carefully if I were you.

 

[TheKayle]

It can free up a core but you are assuming a whole core on PS4 will be dedicated to audio?

depending on the game? yes it will

and would be nothing of special if happen

bkillian explained that also more than a core happen to be used for audio games

so we have a minimum of 10% advantage for more than 31%

(this not taking in consideration move engine that offload cpu too)

 

[dr. apocalipsis]

I am jumping in this thread with not much knowledge of how CPU clocking works, but is it not possible to overclock a CPU/GPU post launch of the console through a firmware update? I thought I read something that this happened to the Vita.

It is possible, but not safe.

PSP was underclocked at launch, that CPU was rated for that final clock.

 

[goonergaz]

depending on the game? yes it will

and would be nothing of special if happen

so what happens when devs get round to using CUs seeing as such a large resource is used for audio? do you recalculate the math?

 

[cebri.one]

You see, it's posts like this that cause you to be (justifiably) ridiculed.

You have no way of quantifying the amount of processing offloaded to the PS4's dedicated audio, so happily post a value that assumes no offloading at all?

Quite ridiculous.

Specially when we know it has dedicated hardware for that, as you say, quite a ridiculous statement.

 

[Osiris]

someone did the math for me

(6 * 1.75) / (5 * 1.6) * 100% = 131.25% (31.25% advantage)

just taking only in consideration that shape can free up one core or more (as someone in the know said!)

if not 10% advantage

...and ignoring the fact that it's not having SHAPE that frees up a core, but having dedicated audio silicon that frees up a core.

So, let me do new math for you:

(6 * 1.75) / (6 * 1.6) * 100% = 109.38% (9.38% advantage)

Do you understand your errors in assumption yet?

 

[TheKayle]

so what happens when devs get round to using CUs seeing as such a large resource is used for audio? do you recalculate the math?

no you will just have less gpu flops...available...

 

[THEaaron]

Rarely cpu bound at 30/60fps, at 30 i would say never nowadays.

Modern new paradigm is a simple fact. 3D performance is almost exclusively GPU performance. That's why theses consoles are so gpu centric.

Even a game like BF3 is not bound by cpus

Kinda funny how a multi threading capable cpu like the i3 is performing "better" than bigger ones.

Well that is only true for the singleplayer. The MP is sooo much more CPU demanding. That is why BF4 will look much worse on PS4/Xbone than the PC version.

 

[Faith]

The PS4 has also an Audio DSP.

 

[Osiris]

The PS4 has also an Audio DSP.

Apparently, because Mark Cerny hasn't gone into detail about what it does, it does nothing, according to TheKayle

 

[TheKayle]

...and ignoring the fact that it's not having SHAPE that frees up a core, but having dedicated audio silicon that frees up a core.

So, let me do new math for you:

(6 * 1.75) / (6 * 1.6) * 100% = 109.38% (9.38% advantage)

Do you understand your errors in assumption yet?

as i said ..10% is the minimum

move engine and as u like to call the dedicated audio silicon frees (that on xb1 ms called shape)..cpu and gpu resource...

so should be from 9.38% (sorry if i said 10 ..really sorry) to more than 31%

 

[gaming_noob]

Lol Having a complex or bias is not a mental illness so I don't know what you are talking about. However, trying to have a conversation about an upclock and then having Xbox fans use it as a platform to express their notion of bias on GAF is ridiculous. Also, I remember a time when meta-posting was banned so I'd tread carefully if I were you.

There are various degrees to having persecution complex, obviously, with some symptoms relating to schizophrenia. Meta-posting is frowned upon here, but I don't see how my post is any different from your original one quoting other people and pointing out "persecution complex".

 

[goonergaz]

no you will just have less gpu flops...available...

but your math is CPU specific is it not?