The Death Of Nintendo Has Been Greatly Under-Exaggerated
- Thread starter Tripon
- Start date
thechristoph
Sir!
The Vita IS a straw man in this argument but I still would love to see what these business analysts think about that thing.
sixteen-bit
Member
more like this article is a failure, rite?
You know what? Nintendo should fire Iwata and hire one of those countless journalists and bloggers. They know how to run the video game industry. I mean look at them! They type stuff on the internet!
But to be honest, we are part of the problem. Stop reading those articles and they'll eventually go away. only the really good and well researched articles will remain relevant.
But to be honest, we are part of the problem. Stop reading those articles and they'll eventually go away. only the really good and well researched articles will remain relevant.
SloaneRisette
Member
Not even just this next this next generation, but probably for the next two-- maybe three.
This article though... it's just. Wow.
Wow that is based on far to many assumptions.
the whole thing boils down to "it's not going to work this time because I said so" and writes off all possibility of them continuing to do well one at a time with what boils down to because I said so. It's a little appalling actually.
Also some of the stuff is flat out wrong the 3DS and it's games are turning very nice profits and the market shows absolutely no signs of slowing down there is no failure here.
the whole thing boils down to "it's not going to work this time because I said so" and writes off all possibility of them continuing to do well one at a time with what boils down to because I said so. It's a little appalling actually.
Also some of the stuff is flat out wrong the 3DS and it's games are turning very nice profits and the market shows absolutely no signs of slowing down there is no failure here.
Yeah it's not a very well written article. Which is kinda a shame because he actually does have some points in the first half of the article. But when you hit "They have failed to make great products for a number of years now.", with no factual basis to back up that claim, you've just gone into hyperbolic opinions.
Man the one thing I hate more than terrible, misinformed click-bait articles are terrible, misinformed click-bait articles that trivialize oppositions to make them sound like fourth graders.
I mean seriously. Who even uses "bu-bu-but look at -x-" in a professional space anymore? It's insufferable to read.
I mean seriously. Who even uses "bu-bu-but look at -x-" in a professional space anymore? It's insufferable to read.
plagiarize
Banned
And with this post, SmokyDave ended the entire thread.
When you've gone so far with your article looking at 'how bad things really are' at Nintendo that SmokyDave cannot get on board?
You've gone too far.
BassForever
Member
Until smash and mario kart come out and don't give the system a boost the wiiu isn't dead. It'd be like saying a Nintendo handheld is a flop before the next Pokemon generation is out.
Basileus777
Member
He starts from a reasonable position, but then overreaches with wild assumptions and loses credibility.
meh, I love my Wii U, but I will agree that it hasn't been a great first year. The BEST that can be said is that if you pick the system up now there are truly a nice amount of GREAT games out. Yes some of them are multi-platform... but discounting those is just as stupid on Wii U as it would be to discount them on PS360.
As for Metacritic scores... fucking really? In one thread GAF bitches about it being used as a pay metric, in another they bitch about scoring in the industry as a whole, but now because it's convenient we are going to use it as a metric on how good of a year Wii U had? You can't have your cake and eat it to. Anyway, the only two games on his list with mixed metacritic scores is ZombiU and Wonderful 101, both EXTREMELY ambitious games that largely succeed, in spite of some issues with both.. hence the mixed reviews.
The problem with this statement is that it makes no sense.. "Nintendo makes good software.. for handhelds." Umm.. Nintendo makes good software. Period. Whether on a handheld or console. I don't think anyone out there has ever said "Nintendo should just stop making games!" So why then would it make sense for them to discontinue consoles if they can be profitable at them? It's as ridiculous a statement as "I'm fine with Sony/Microsoft leaving console manufacturing." Or should I say "I'm fine with the manufacturer(s) whose system(s) I don't own leaving the console market."
competition is good. And if you don't think Nintendo is STILL competitive in that market space, you only need to look at the similarities between Wii U and those consoles (second screen, closed social networking, OS-level content sharing, etc). there is still competition there... it's just not translating into actual sales or consumer share. yet(?)
I lol'ed.
Kissenkopf
Banned
What alays comes to my mind, when I read articles likes that: the others would be happy if they could get two systems at the same time on the market and make profit with it!
But we don't want to look on the other ones...Nintendo had some rough times in the last months, but in these holidays the Wii U will show that it's still there and ready to shine in a lot of living rooms.
But we don't want to look on the other ones...Nintendo had some rough times in the last months, but in these holidays the Wii U will show that it's still there and ready to shine in a lot of living rooms.
Fact is, there was virtually no chance Nintendo was going to sustain the financial success that they got from the Wii-DS generation.
That being said, the Wii U is about to enter it's make-or-break period. I've given their poor sales the benefit of the doubt because they are about to have some of their heavy hitting enter the market. But if sales don't pick up, I think the Wii U is dead in the water (or they'll have to do yet another price cut or two).
The 3DS is doing just fine. The DS sales were a little inflated due to the success of games like brain age and nintendogs that came pretty big before smartphones blew up. It's not surprising that they haven't fully recaptured that market and i doubt they ever will. That being said, the 3DS will be more than profitable for them (as long as they don't try to sell another $250 handheld) and Nintendo should get by relatively okay this gen as a result.
That being said, the Wii U is about to enter it's make-or-break period. I've given their poor sales the benefit of the doubt because they are about to have some of their heavy hitting enter the market. But if sales don't pick up, I think the Wii U is dead in the water (or they'll have to do yet another price cut or two).
The 3DS is doing just fine. The DS sales were a little inflated due to the success of games like brain age and nintendogs that came pretty big before smartphones blew up. It's not surprising that they haven't fully recaptured that market and i doubt they ever will. That being said, the 3DS will be more than profitable for them (as long as they don't try to sell another $250 handheld) and Nintendo should get by relatively okay this gen as a result.
To be fair, Sony's game division profits aren't reliant on the Vita, but the 3DS has to prop up a healthy part of Nintendo for the next few years. Tit-for-tat between the two is a bit off topic due to the wildly different circumstances of their manufacturers.
Even if those games do moderately well it wont significantly change Wii U's projectory. A temporary bump wont do them much good, the Wii U is floundering and headed for irrelevance one way or the other
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Under-exaggerated? It's all people talk about these days...
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Calling any Nintendo console absolutely dead before it has Mario Kart, or any of the big Nintendo hitters is a little premature really.
My thoughts exactly, it's like this guy thinks he's reached upon some undiscovered, unpopular opinion about Nintendo.
KennyLinder
Member
3DS? It will do fine. Took a sizable knock from mobile gaming but it's still going strong, has awesome games and nothing lasts forever.
Wii U? It's dead. This years games won't save it and neither will Mario Kart. Nobody wants the stupid controller and there is a huge market confusion about the system.
Wii U? It's dead. This years games won't save it and neither will Mario Kart. Nobody wants the stupid controller and there is a huge market confusion about the system.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Hahaha, what? Nevermind playing it--have you even read the back of the box?
Basileus777
Member
This guy thinks mobile is going to kill consoles and dedicated handhelds, he's consistent on that front at least.
The only good point the article brings are about the Wii U being a failure. I think no one can dispute that.
Also, I agree that the Wii U can't really be saved anymore, kinda like Gamecube or N64 (more the first than the latter though). It'll have some great first party games, but that's it.
Where's the chalkboard?
Also, I agree that the Wii U can't really be saved anymore, kinda like Gamecube or N64 (more the first than the latter though). It'll have some great first party games, but that's it.
Where's the chalkboard?
The thing I'm worried about is that not many people thought a Wii successor launching with a tablet and followed by monster hunter, NSMB and Dragon Quest (in Japan) would struggle either.
kurtrussell
Banned
Isn't the WiiU profitable after 1 purchase? I'd assume that the vast majority of Wii U users have purchased at least one title, which would surely mean that they are making a profit from the Wii U already, and their big Wii cash pile is untouched?
Prince Vultan
Banned
They definitely aren't in the safe position they would have been only 4-5 years ago that's for sure. I think they are going to have to make some changes going forward but they're hardly dead yet.
The Wii brand (And by extension Nintendo's home console business) is all but worthless at this point when it was making them insane amounts of money back in the first half of this gen. 3DS seems to be managing success in spite of the ongoing decline of the handheld market thanks to smartphones and such, but I can't see that being sustainable at it's current level for more than a couple of years from now. Maybe more in Japan, I dunno.
Whatever the case, I think the biggest make or break moment is gonna be when it comes time to launch the 3DS' successor. They barely managed to keep the 3DS from being a flop initially, but I'm not sure how they can do the same thing in 3-4 years in a market that has turned to mobile in far greater numbers and their IPs have significantly less cache than they would have during the Wii's big years.
TLDR: Change or die.
The Wii brand (And by extension Nintendo's home console business) is all but worthless at this point when it was making them insane amounts of money back in the first half of this gen. 3DS seems to be managing success in spite of the ongoing decline of the handheld market thanks to smartphones and such, but I can't see that being sustainable at it's current level for more than a couple of years from now. Maybe more in Japan, I dunno.
Whatever the case, I think the biggest make or break moment is gonna be when it comes time to launch the 3DS' successor. They barely managed to keep the 3DS from being a flop initially, but I'm not sure how they can do the same thing in 3-4 years in a market that has turned to mobile in far greater numbers and their IPs have significantly less cache than they would have during the Wii's big years.
TLDR: Change or die.
blizzardjesus
Banned
I bet he's never been to pax to see the masses of people carrying their 3ds's around.
I'm pretty happy with my wiiu so far.
I'm pretty happy with my wiiu so far.
Pretty much, 3DS doing worse than DS isn't a sign of failure when the DS is the best selling portable system ever, and if you include consoles, is 2nd after the PS2.
oh boy, maybe this is another GAF -> internet -> GAF instance.
I would agree the games released since launch have been strong enough that I have no regrets investing in the system.
I've enjoyed playing the 5 games I purchased for the WiiU. Heck even some of the mini games in Nintendoland were great.
Pikmin 3, Lego City Undercover, ZombiU, New Super Mario Bros U and Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate all gave me experiences I could not find anywhere else.
For me I buy a Nintendo system to play Nintendo games, as long as they keep delivering me quality exclusives I will keep buying their hardware. The success of the Wii seems to make people forget that Nintendo was the second or third place system during the N64 and Gamecube ear and it got though those times just fine on the strength of their first party lineup, I feel the next 4 years will continue that pattern.
3DS literally turned around night and day over a year after release. DS was around 10 months after release. Both systems were basically deemed DOA.
Not saying Wii U WILL turn around.. but if it DID turn around on a Smash/MK8 one-two punch, it wouldn't be unheard of.
They might be making money and have a ton of cash but this is the first time in my life that I have not been compelled to get a Nintendo system at launch. I don't want hd-remakes anymore (loved Oot on my 3ds). Give me a legitimate Zelda and give me a legitimate Mario. NSMB was great on the 3ds but dont' keep giving it to me the Wiiu . Also come up with a new platformer. Invent Nintendo don't just depend on your past roster. Then sprinkle in Mariox,y,z also for the love of god make a pokemon RPG on the WiiU!
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
I guess Sony are in trouble as well then.
A co-worker sent this article to me this morning for some reason. It honestly reads like a forum post from someone that dislikes Nintendo. What value does this have as an article? What is this meant to tell us that we didn't already know?
The "Nintendo is doomed" rhetoric is just boring at this point and it pervades so much of the discourse around the company, even when unwarrented.
The "Nintendo is doomed" rhetoric is just boring at this point and it pervades so much of the discourse around the company, even when unwarrented.
Burger
Member
I don't think it's correct to label an opinion piece as having an 'agenda' simply because it argues a certain position.
Agenda implies motive, and as Siegler works for Google I doubt advocating iOS development can be described as such.
I think the recent pieces by technology writers like Gruber/Siegler about Nintendo dropping the ball (see: 2DS) are interesting, and worth thinking about.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
That was painful to read.
3DS a failure because it tracks 20% behind 2nd best selling hardware in history? 2DS an admittance to the failure of the 3DS? Nintendo returning to profitability after losses doesn't matter? They've failed to make a great product in years (completely writing off the Wii and DS)? The Wii a fad (a 100 million console and 5 year fad)? Sell themselves to Apple and become like Pixar is to Disney?
Fucking Christ, man.
3DS a failure because it tracks 20% behind 2nd best selling hardware in history? 2DS an admittance to the failure of the 3DS? Nintendo returning to profitability after losses doesn't matter? They've failed to make a great product in years (completely writing off the Wii and DS)? The Wii a fad (a 100 million console and 5 year fad)? Sell themselves to Apple and become like Pixar is to Disney?
Fucking Christ, man.
michaeltraps
Member
Dat second @reply.
"@michaelpachter But what i do think that should happen is that Apple should actually buy Nintendo."
Can't wait for F2P microtransaction Animal Crossing.
plagiarize
Banned
I don't know, I find this kind of thing a bit odd. The PS4 has to prop up the Vita as much as the 3DS has to prop up the Wii U, surely? I don't see why the situation is that different that you'd phrase one more favorably than the other.
Sigh, will this crap ever end?
Hell, even at the height of Nintendo's success in 2007, with the Wii and the DS, there were articles saying Nintendo were doomed.
I'm getting so sick of it.
Nintendo are the ones that will sruvive. Will they massively soar to the top again? No, probably not. However, they will continue to make and sell products that sell moderate to decent amounts, earn a profit and keep them afloat.
The DS and Wii were anomalies that hit a then un-tapped market. It baffles me why so many analysts, journalists etc. insist that their successors have to exceed those sales.
Hell, even at the height of Nintendo's success in 2007, with the Wii and the DS, there were articles saying Nintendo were doomed.
I'm getting so sick of it.
Nintendo are the ones that will sruvive. Will they massively soar to the top again? No, probably not. However, they will continue to make and sell products that sell moderate to decent amounts, earn a profit and keep them afloat.
The DS and Wii were anomalies that hit a then un-tapped market. It baffles me why so many analysts, journalists etc. insist that their successors have to exceed those sales.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
The Wii U is definitely struggling, mainly due to it being a confused product with very little identity. But I do think if it has a few amazing titles that you can't get anywhere else (Wind Waker, Monster Hunter, NSMB are not examples of these), it could sell a decent amount.
The 3DS has proved you don't need to be the DS or the Wii levels of success to prosper, but I mean the Wii U isn't even doing okay right now, so we'll see.
What did he say about the 2DS? If it's a simple "Lol it's ugly" i'm not particularly interested, it's got a Gameboy feel to it and will sell a load with Pokemon. I know he acknowledged the latter in his article.
The 3DS has proved you don't need to be the DS or the Wii levels of success to prosper, but I mean the Wii U isn't even doing okay right now, so we'll see.
What did he say about the 2DS? If it's a simple "Lol it's ugly" i'm not particularly interested, it's got a Gameboy feel to it and will sell a load with Pokemon. I know he acknowledged the latter in his article.
With 3DS, Nintendo was FAST. They had the timing right, they priced the thing wrong in the first place.
Doctor Decimate
Member
Oh good, I'm not the only one that fucking irritates.
At the end of the day you have a great developer with old tech, very little HD experience, an antiquated account system that iOS and Android have had for years now, nevermind Sony and MS, and very little in the way of 3rd party support.
If I was tasked with cleaning up Nintendo I'd drop a firmware with opt-in account system immediately, then I'd moneyhat some Western exclusives, good ones, at that.
I'd start up a new 2013 Play it Loud type of campaign with a different hook but that type of concept. Nintendo needs to be cool again. Being family friendly and cool are not mutually exclusive. Family friendly money is nice but the cool money is nonexistent.
I'd drop the system to $200 because that's what it worth at this point, due to lack of software and support, amazing tablet tech be damned. Gathering dust is not an exciting way to spend $300 for most people.
After all this I'd rename the Wii U into Wii 2 and specifically mention consumer confusion.
Would it work? Is it smart financially? I don't know, but as of right now I expect to never consider buying a Nintendo console again unless I have kids.
It may have some neat ideas with the tablet, but none of their games look like must haves. There's nothing compelling about the Wii U for the money they're asking. My Wii collected dust and I see the same scenario for Wii U.
If I was tasked with cleaning up Nintendo I'd drop a firmware with opt-in account system immediately, then I'd moneyhat some Western exclusives, good ones, at that.
I'd start up a new 2013 Play it Loud type of campaign with a different hook but that type of concept. Nintendo needs to be cool again. Being family friendly and cool are not mutually exclusive. Family friendly money is nice but the cool money is nonexistent.
I'd drop the system to $200 because that's what it worth at this point, due to lack of software and support, amazing tablet tech be damned. Gathering dust is not an exciting way to spend $300 for most people.
After all this I'd rename the Wii U into Wii 2 and specifically mention consumer confusion.
Would it work? Is it smart financially? I don't know, but as of right now I expect to never consider buying a Nintendo console again unless I have kids.
It may have some neat ideas with the tablet, but none of their games look like must haves. There's nothing compelling about the Wii U for the money they're asking. My Wii collected dust and I see the same scenario for Wii U.