babyghost853
Member
Quote him as many times as you want, doesn't change the fact that both of you along with many others will be eating crow later.
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How much different will X1 and PS4 multiplats be visually?
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Quote him as many times as you want, doesn't change the fact that both of you along with many others will be eating crow later.
I'd be surprised at 2Ghz, but that is the stock speed of those Jaguar cores in many other products, so it's not out of all realms of possibility. I Wouldn't be surprised one bit to find that the 1.6Ghz and 800Mhz clocks had been bumped up after the February reveal, though 2Ghz would blow my socks off.
Despite his bias, I still prefer him over Thomas Morgan. That Skyrim face-off was far too "kind" in light of the various technical issues, which he noted. The conclusion should have been a warning not to buy the PS3 version under any circumstance.
What is the claim in your terms on which they will eat crow? I would then bookmark it and return to thread on December 1st.
I think it's more important to get the OS reserve down to 1 core.
Any release date on that app?
I've already replied to you, I pointed out Jack Tretton disagrees and they should both enter the thunderdome to find the true victor.
http://www.examiner.com/article/sony-ps4-is-the-most-powerful-console-games-look-best-on-ps4-1
So i say again, Thunderdome? proceeds to charity? loser steps out of the console race?
Chobel
Member
I think he means this one
And I don't believe Penello statement at all.
agree...considering nobody will actually let us see games running on both the PS4 and Xbone idk how anyone can have a clue...
Oh if the crow eating is if there won't be ANY difference then sign me up. I think there will be a difference and a Face-Off will reveal it.
Possibly Yes, but it will be different teams working on that and may not be mutually beneficial, a 1.9Ghz core may be able to run the OS but a 1.6Ghz core may not, I'm sure we'll get some revelations or leaks soon enough
I dont know that for sure just guessing
Reasonably sure it's day one as they've been talking about it downloading games for you when your not available, it's all the same app I believe but there are no firm dates yet.
I am not expecting that either. However, on a side note, people usually refer to an article from AnandTech [1] where they said that the Jaguar TDP increases by 66% if one increases clock speed from 1,5Ghz (sic) to 2,0Ghz. However, that article is slightly mistaken in that they overlooked that the APUs they were comparing also had different GPUs and different GPU clock speeds (500Mhz vs. 600Mhz).
So the impact of upclocking Jaguar by 150Mhz should not be as drastic as many people are reporting.
[1] http://www.anandtech.com/show/6976/...wering-xbox-one-playstation-4-kabini-temash/4
I think so too. No need to add to the TDP of the console if you don't have to. I personally think this is where Sony will be focusing in regards to the CPU, not any clock speed changes.
BTW on the subject of ridiculous Albert Penello quotes:
Albert Penello said:
Comparing having more brute force power on nearly identical architectures to Cell and the Emotion Engine is hilarious.
Do you think Penello will eat his crow too? He's a Gaffer and he made the claim.
I will certainly admit that I was wrong if the face offs show XB1 is superior or evenly matched.
Yeah since it was shown to me that the AnandTech TDP comparison between 1.6GHz and 2GHz were incorrect I've been more open to the idea of an upclock.
I don't think it's necessary to compete with the Xbox One, but if that is what it takes to keep the OS within a single core and have 7 fully dedicated for games that would be wonderful for developers.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
He's not an objective source by any means, but really? Killzone and InFamous look better than anything on the Xbox One demonstrated in real time gameplay.
babyghost853
Member
Saying that people won't be able to see the difference. I fully expect all kinds of goal post moving once the games and systems are out. With lots of "well you shouldn't compare this type of game to that", or "It's all about the gameplay anyway", to flat out denial "no one ever said you won't be able to see differences".
In addition, his reasoning was objectively invalid. You can't go from "I don't know the details of Sony's architecture", which he wrote in his subsequent post, to "Differences in system architecture details will level the performance figures of both systems". But that was his very argument.
I was just kind of shocked by that quote in particular since he's usually pretty level headed and diplomatic but that quote is nuts.
boredandlazy
Member
He should make an account bet.
Comparing different games to each other doesn't work though. I am operating under the assumption that the comparison is between multiplatform titles.
Ryse vs. Killzone vs. Forza vs. Resogun doesn't work.
Forza vs. Driveclub doesn't even work because one uses pre-baked lighting and the other fully dynamic lighting.
Anyway, I sign up: There will be a difference between Xbone and PS4 multiplatform titles that can be determined by DigitalFoundry just like there was on PS3/360. A recommendation can be made about the vanilla game without taking into account network, controller and other preferences. There will be no "it's a wash."
It is strange/surprising that so many people are defending/believing a guy who clearly is here only to promote and sell his product (it is in fact his job)
Why is he allowed to do so I dont know but I still hope that the mods will somehow take care of it.
And the multiplats should be better on ps4...but having more power and using that power are two very different things...
I'm not sure Sony really cares all that much about doing an upclock. The power gap is already quite large, so they really don't have anything to worry about, and system reliability could prove more important. I guess they really don't have any reason not to do it if the TDP is only minimally increased, so who knows. Now that MS has revealed both their final CPU and GPU speeds I would imagine that Sony would announce any upclock relatively soon. The ball is in their court.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
the hook with DX is familiarity and being a native development environment to the target platform. it isn't purely about horsepower, tech, or know-how, Panello.
keep in mind that DX has been bloated for far too long according to many in the development community. if devs were able to deal with difficult learning curve with the CELL and having to code directly to the metal + OpenGL, and without the ease-of-use of DX... AND get the same performance/quality or better than some 360 games, then it's going to be interesting to see what they can do this gen without the uphill battle that was CELL architecture.
ALSO: PS2 was before Xbox, so it's not quite an equal comparison here. 360 and PS3 launched within the same relative window and so are PS4 and Xbone.
keep in mind that DX has been bloated for far too long according to many in the development community. if devs were able to deal with difficult learning curve with the CELL and having to code directly to the metal + OpenGL, and without the ease-of-use of DX... AND get the same performance/quality or better than some 360 games, then it's going to be interesting to see what they can do this gen without the uphill battle that was CELL architecture.
ALSO: PS2 was before Xbox, so it's not quite an equal comparison here. 360 and PS3 launched within the same relative window and so are PS4 and Xbone.
Teletraan1
Banned
I think since we have seen so few multiplatform titles being shown on both platforms at these trade shows it is pretty telling. They have been only showing one of the versions at these shows, with how sneaky these publishers are that is a bad sign. Have we even seen a single multiplatform game running on xbone rather than having a PC or PS4 version on display? If the answer is no, then there is your answer to this thread and you can put that "not at launch" mantra away.
Chobel
Member
Signing up too.
Melchiah
Member
I was wondering about the same thing. Aren't product marketers commonly frowned upon over here? He doesn't seem to post anything else than XB1 PR.
Huh, why should that be any problem? Everybody can see his affiliation and adjust judgements accordingly. I also give him the benefit of the doubt on his sincerity. One is not automatically disingenuous for championing his own product. It's pretty normal that you are passionate and subjective about your own work, "interpreting" the facts in the most favorable way in the process.
Duxxy3
Member
Nah, it's his job.
If the GAF higher ups decide he can't do his job on this board, then that's their decision.
This. Does anyone truly believe that most companies don't want to get the most graphics, framerates, etc. out of their games nowadays? Give me a break.
PS4 will most likely be the choice for better multiplats later on down the road.
Another fact that these Xbox fanboys refuse to see.
2dshmuplover
Banned
Yeah and John Carmack said they were "remarkably similar".
babyghost853
Member
Oh I'm fully aware it doesn't work that way, but that didn't stop certain fans from shitting on driveclub using forza as a reference. Just saying that if games like driveclub hit their mark, these same people will begin sighting things like how much physics Forza has to deal with ect, ect. When they should never have been compared in the first place.
Similar does not mean the same, Also I believe he was talking about in the scheme of what sort of PC they would be if that makes sense as PC's have Graphics solutions ranging from 50GFLOPs up to around 10 TFLOPS so 1.3 vs.1.8 is pretty similar in the scheme of things.
I could be mistaken on that though, it was just my interpretation of the comments.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
i agree.
all the forza vs driveclub debates can truly boil down to are what are more important to the individual. fps, lighting method, physics, etc. they are obviously different beasts.
if PS4 had a featured fighting game to compare to Killer Instict i'm sure 720p/60fps would come up a lot too.
What someone who makes games for both consoles says on the record can be very different from what they say off the record. They can't say something on the record that could piss off either Sony or MS.
Melchiah
Member
Some amount of sugarcoating is expected, but I think his latest posts stepped into the side of spreading misinformation, in an attempt to obscure the facts to their favor.
Wii U
Xbox 1
PS4
Being serious for a moment, the differences won't be noticeable to average people. Only graphic enthusiasts and tech geeks will notice. I bet you would need Fraps on all the time to notice differences.
It depends what the lead platform is and if the developer decides to use the extra juice of the PS4. A game like Fifa or Madden will be identical. The only differences will be minor, like extra AA or AF, longer draw distances, locked Vsync, and constant 60fps (in games where 60 fps is the target) and the XB1 version might dip to the low 50's at heavy parts. But you can't tell the difference between 50 and 60 fps in a quick second.
Don't expect the PS4 ports to have higher res textures or more particle effects then the XB1 ports, especially since the XB1 will be the lead platform for most multiplats. Unless the devs put time into it (most won't).
Xbox 1
PS4
Being serious for a moment, the differences won't be noticeable to average people. Only graphic enthusiasts and tech geeks will notice. I bet you would need Fraps on all the time to notice differences.
It depends what the lead platform is and if the developer decides to use the extra juice of the PS4. A game like Fifa or Madden will be identical. The only differences will be minor, like extra AA or AF, longer draw distances, locked Vsync, and constant 60fps (in games where 60 fps is the target) and the XB1 version might dip to the low 50's at heavy parts. But you can't tell the difference between 50 and 60 fps in a quick second.
Don't expect the PS4 ports to have higher res textures or more particle effects then the XB1 ports, especially since the XB1 will be the lead platform for most multiplats. Unless the devs put time into it (most won't).
SolidSnakex
Member
Is there any indication of this? If anything it seems like PC's are the lead platforms and then everything is ported down. This is even happening with FFXV and KH3, which haven't even been announced for the PC yet. And with that being the case it seems pretty clear how the PS4 could start pushing more of an advantage.
Wii U
Xbox 1
PS4
Being serious for a moment, the differences won't be noticeable to average people. Only graphic enthusiasts and tech geeks will notice. I bet you would need Fraps on all the time to notice differences.
It depends what the lead platform is and if the developer decides to use the extra juice of the PS4. A game like Fifa or Madden will be identical. The only differences will be minor, like extra AA or AF, longer draw distances, locked Vsync, and constant 60fps (in games where 60 fps is the target) and the XB1 version might dip to the low 50's at heavy parts. But you can't tell the difference between 50 and 60 fps in a quick second.
Don't expect the PS4 ports to have higher res textures or more particle effects then the XB1 ports, especially since the XB1 will be the lead platform for most multiplats. Unless the devs put time into it (most won't).
I agree with a lot of what you said, but why do you think the XB1 will be the lead for most Multplats?
Splinter Cell CT comparison
This is a video comparing the PS2 and Xbox Splinter Cell Chaos Theory differences. The Xbox has some noticably better lighting and better resolution but I highly doubt the PS4 will be able to run a multiplat game at 1080p while the XB1 only runs 720p. Just expect some better lighting, shadows, and maybe AF and AA. 90% of the time multiplats will be identical.
This is a video comparing the PS2 and Xbox Splinter Cell Chaos Theory differences. The Xbox has some noticably better lighting and better resolution but I highly doubt the PS4 will be able to run a multiplat game at 1080p while the XB1 only runs 720p. Just expect some better lighting, shadows, and maybe AF and AA. 90% of the time multiplats will be identical.
You can make this argument for the Xbone as the lead platform:
Lead on Xbone to handle alll the eSRAM awkwardness and be confident that the PS4 will run anything that you got to run on Xbone.
He was just talking architecture since he hadn't benchmarked the consoles yet.
This is a big point, especially since DICE showed the PS4 version of BF4 when that game has a marketing association with XBO.
2dshmuplover
Banned
No, his original quote was:
John Carmack said:
Carmack said he hasn't done any "really rigorous benchmarking" yet but declared that the two systems are very similar, and both very capable.
Well, he is right. Both are practically the same architecture. PS4 just has more in the way of the Gpu and memory bandwidth. XO potentially a marginally faster CPU, but they are similar. I think that's why the PS4 is likely to show off more differences later cycle not less. If it was an entirely different architecture and difficult to develop for like the PS3 and PS2, the hardware performance advantage probably wouldn't have mattered as much.
Games usually start development on PC's before dev kits arrive because by the time they arrive it will be too late to start a game and get it ready for launch.
Some developers, like Platinum and Capcom's MT framework, develop on PC first and then port to consoles. But most Japanese devs don't bother with porting to PC. You won't see FFXV on PC because Square doesn't think the demand is there and they believe JRPG's thrive best as console exclusives.
Agreed. Usually the console that sells the most is the lead platform (NES, SNES, PS1, PS2, Wii was too weak so Xbox 360 was lead platform)
I think the XB1 will be the lead platform for two reasons:
1) Xbox 360 was the leading HD console in sales for a majority of the generation and has huge mass appeal in NA and the UK. These are two major markets in the western part of the world (where the gaming audience has shifted to since the early 2000's). It would make sense to follow that up by having devs supporting the leading console (I realize the PS3 has taken over worldwide now).
But think about how many ports the PS3 got at the beginnning of the gen, all because the PS1 and PS2 were so dominant and publishers were expecting PS3 to follow suit (but it didn't take off as they planned). Then western devs quickly banked on the 360 as the lead platform (this was also due to PS3's cell architecture being difficult to master compared to 360's PC-like architecture). That's why you saw lot's of third party games and Unreal Engine 3 games coming out on Xbox 360 first (i.e. Mass Effect, Bioshock, Elder Scrolls IV, etc.)
2) The lowest powered console is usually the lead platform because it's easier to make a game run with minimum specs and then crank up the graphics and effects for the more powerful platforms. It's much more difficult to make a huge sexy game like FFXV and try to get it running on Wii U for example.
Now, this is also misleading because usually the lowest powered console is the highest selling, but if the PS4 takes off in sales and is selling twice as much as the XB1, you may see the PS4 as the lead platform, but most of the time the games will be identical as it's easier to port up instead of porting down.
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