Fighting Games Weekly | Sept 16-22 | EVO does a 360 and walks away
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
It depends on what you mean by surviving competitively.
If that just means that the game gets played at majors with good turnouts and has an EVO slot... that is almost guaranteed to happen. It doesn't matter how broken the game is at launch, it will get patched (or at least the promise of patches to get the community playing for a bit). Xboxes at EVO pretty much locks in KI being at EVO and KI being an EVO game guarantees some level of turnouts at tournaments especially since it's a new game.
If surviving competitively means it's going to be played regularly for years on ends and be respected as a solid competitive fighter... then that might be accomplished depending on the community and how well the developers support it. Game is supposed to get a lot of DLC so by its second EVO it might have like 16 characters. I mean MK9 survived for 3 EVOs and that's way more than most people thought it would be able to accomplish.
Number of characters isn't a big issue, Skullgirls is a TEAM game and it did alright with 8 characters and not a lot of patches early on. KI is a 1 on 1 game, it can coast by on fewer characters initially.
If that just means that the game gets played at majors with good turnouts and has an EVO slot... that is almost guaranteed to happen. It doesn't matter how broken the game is at launch, it will get patched (or at least the promise of patches to get the community playing for a bit). Xboxes at EVO pretty much locks in KI being at EVO and KI being an EVO game guarantees some level of turnouts at tournaments especially since it's a new game.
If surviving competitively means it's going to be played regularly for years on ends and be respected as a solid competitive fighter... then that might be accomplished depending on the community and how well the developers support it. Game is supposed to get a lot of DLC so by its second EVO it might have like 16 characters. I mean MK9 survived for 3 EVOs and that's way more than most people thought it would be able to accomplish.
Number of characters isn't a big issue, Skullgirls is a TEAM game and it did alright with 8 characters and not a lot of patches early on. KI is a 1 on 1 game, it can coast by on fewer characters initially.
Rice-Eater
Member
I just tuned into the MCZ stream. I see -R- and Bonchan on the mic. I guess they're letting the Japanese run the show for now. I love their hype, but I hope Zhi and company get back on the mic when the next set of exhibitions start.
Rice-Eater
Member
Thanks, I didn't even notice their was a 2nd stream.
KingItachi
Member
Yeah how about no Zhi he still seems to think he is funny, a combo of Spooky and anyone else would be better.
Skullgirls got a pass in that area (number of characters) because anyone could see the amount of love/effort/depth that were put into each and every one of those characters, and most folks understood the limitations LZ was under budget-wise. KI has a much larger budget and an artstyle that is well, ugly. In addition, while Evo might have Xbones, I really doubt other majors will follow just for KI- especially when their communities will be PS4-centric.
KI is going to have to shit rainbows to get any real attention. It takes more than a pot bonus to attract pot monsters. Given the rep of Double Helix and what I saw from TFC, I expect KI to be kusoge status, though I suspect DH will be patching the game NRS-style and they'll make it as good as they're capable of- I just don't expect that to be very much.
An EVO spot didn't save VF5 vanilla. I'd even go so far as to say Arcana Heart 3 would out-draw KI at Evo if both were run next year as official games.
Bang.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Zhi is the best commentator.
Quality doesn't matter as much in terms of a game getting the competitive spotlight. Playability and fun factor is more important because you need those hooks to grab more people in. More people means bigger tournament, better competition (usually) and bigger pot. You think if KI starts drawing 200 people at a major that someone like ChrisG will ignore it? Nah and when the big name players start playing it regularly it gets more stream views. As long as the game is patched and not day 1 JoJo level of kusoge, it's going to be fine.
I will bet any amount of money from 10 to 100 bucks on KI making it into EVO 2014.
I can't make any comment about KI past EVO 2014, its long term status depends on how well it does at EVO. But from November to July, expect to be seeing that game on the regular at big tournaments.
I will bet any amount of money from 10 to 100 bucks on KI making it into EVO 2014.
I can't make any comment about KI past EVO 2014, its long term status depends on how well it does at EVO. But from November to July, expect to be seeing that game on the regular at big tournaments.
KingItachi
Member
No amount of what you're smoking will make that remotely true.
Lambda Pie
Banned
you mean MS sponsored EVO? not exactly a risky bet.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
Is there no P4AC at TGS?
His ridiculous knowledge of the game, ability to quickly assess what's going on (at one point during the Daigo x Infiltration match he was so aware of Daigo's set ups, he even explained the cross up tatsu before Daigo even did it) and his familiarity with players from all over the world, while being able to directly communicate quite well with them, definitely gives him more than enough reasons to qualify as one of the best.
Humour is subjective, but his knowledge of the game is pretty indisputable.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
Character's that'll be free will rotate every few weeks. So, overwhelming amount of every character?
oh shit, that's great. guess KI monsters gonna have to pay up if they want to be EVO ready after all
RIP f2p Jago EVO champion
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
Agreed. Based on what I've played, he's the most solid in the game as is already.
toddhunter
Member
Will be interesting to see the correlation between KI balance patches and which characters are "free" for the week or on sale.
I suspect there will be "some".
I suspect there will be "some".
Rice-Eater
Member
What a choke by Kokujin. He could have ended that long ass win streak.
Seasoned Badger
Member
YES! Our god and savior, ZHI, is on the mic!!
Parallax Scroll
Banned
more like chokujin
call_kotaku
Member
The problem I see with the free character rotation is playing online with it, since you can't pay money to not be forced to play endless queues of whoever the free character is that week. It's a thing that distinguishes it from skullgirls and other small-roster fighting games, since there's a good possibility that the limited character variety becomes even more limited due to the nature of the system.
Though I suppose making the free character different for every player would fix it, but making you buy every fighter and making the first character free (sort of like that marvel f2p mmo) makes the most sense to me.
Honestly though, these sorts of monetization shenanigans belong in a game with a bigger roster.
Though I suppose making the free character different for every player would fix it, but making you buy every fighter and making the first character free (sort of like that marvel f2p mmo) makes the most sense to me.
Honestly though, these sorts of monetization shenanigans belong in a game with a bigger roster.
ShinMaruku
Member
Really if you want these games to grow somebody will have to do the free to play right. (Like DOA5u and LoL and Dota 2 do it) I think a free to play fighter would do great granted it has the proper player pool. It's easier access can add to that. If they can't do that then we can do packaged games but developers will have to teach people the game better to enrich the player pool.
As it is right now all thes great fighters have player pools that will keep the games at a certain number because there is no good curve of skill between players. There are som profound skill gaps that will scare away somebody who if he or she had a better pool of players closer to their skill that they can rank up.
Not everybody can hit that break wall and transcend it like that. Fighting games and e-sports are the only things that harbour that fantasy. You have to have different areas for different skill sets. You would never see Barcelona's football club play bum fuck club in Lichenstien now would you?
As it is right now all thes great fighters have player pools that will keep the games at a certain number because there is no good curve of skill between players. There are som profound skill gaps that will scare away somebody who if he or she had a better pool of players closer to their skill that they can rank up.
Not everybody can hit that break wall and transcend it like that. Fighting games and e-sports are the only things that harbour that fantasy. You have to have different areas for different skill sets. You would never see Barcelona's football club play bum fuck club in Lichenstien now would you?
EarlyEarly
Member
Welp Haitani lost. I'm going to bed
This is super obnoxious in DoA5U and it's going to be just as bad in KI. If you play DoA5U on the PS3 right now, all you fight are ninjas (never mind that would happen to a fair extent because they're popular and almost always good, but it's hilarious now).
I don't think it's that simple. You need both the marketing hype and the quality to sustain a community. If you have the former without the other, you end up with a game with the trajectory of something like SFxT. If you have the latter without the former, you end up with VF5:FS.
A spot at Evo isn't an automatic boost to a playerbase -- ask DoA4, VF5 or TvC players how that worked out.
I also don't think people follow top players as blindly as you think -- a lot of them were pushing SFxT, especially when the game first came out but by and large players did not make the jump. Skullgirls has gone the opposite route, with no 'known' top players playing it beyond a month or two but the game building it's own community (for better or worse).
Twist: It turns out he's working on a F2P sequel to F/UC. D:
Seasoned Badger
Member
Holy FUCK! Bonchan is too good!!!
Lambda Pie
Banned
i wonder what the reaction would be if MvC4 shipped with only 6 characters (3 for each side) and you had to pay the rest.
toddhunter
Member
Always depends. The better the game is, the less the model matters.
You can bet on that.
We'll have to see. Divekick is fun too.
Depends on the package really. If it has a 60 dollar option to unlock all 50- characters that's fine but if the game launches with just 6 characters on day 1 with the rest coming as DLC there would be a massive shit storm. Mostly because it's a team game and how the hell are you going to construct teams with just 6 characters?
I say that if it launched with 24 characters and it gradually builds up to 60 characters it's fine as long as the total cost of all characters is reasonable. If the core game is fun people will stick it out.
ShinMaruku
Member
I want a fighting game bold enough to start with 25 and stay there. This 60 character bullshit is not expanding the game as much as people think. Just makes the game more arcane.
Karsticles
Member
It depends on the game. Marvel really benefits from more characters, while a game like Tekken or DoA...
I definitely agree that a F2P fighter should start with a decent roster. Maybe they could balance out a larger roster with a cheaper entry point, or discounted 'starter' character packs. Costumes will always be decent revenue, as far as I can tell. Investing time into a main is a big deal in fighters, so fresh looks are always nice.
Honestly, MvC4 would make an excellent F2P candidate if Marvel holds it down. You could satisfy demands for obscure and dated characters with an 'open' roster. Plus, I feel there's a sort of acceptance of MvC being a crazy game, so whatever crazy, insane, broken balance the games goes through will be somewhat assuaged.
Honestly, MvC4 would make an excellent F2P candidate if Marvel holds it down. You could satisfy demands for obscure and dated characters with an 'open' roster. Plus, I feel there's a sort of acceptance of MvC being a crazy game, so whatever crazy, insane, broken balance the games goes through will be somewhat assuaged.
Depends on the game. Team games need a bigger roster but 1v1 even 40 to 50 is pushing it.
SolarPowered
Member
Fucking Mayhem
Ryu
Chun Li
Dante
Wolverine
Magneto
Phoenix
Any big name fighting game benefits from more characters. So it mostly applies to Capcom games. I'm gonna piss off some Namco heads with this post for sure.
ShinMaruku
Member
Marvel side steps this by making some characts function the same but giving a different style there are a few stand out really unique characters (It also helps them be top tier for some of them) but most sit on a theme and make s bunch of them be able to be played the same. And it's a team game so Marvel I can give a slight pass. Tekken however, it's roster size is a huge part of why it's so arcane because first you learn the system then your character, THEN you have to learn how to fight 50 different characters and that can be overwhelming for a new person as opposed to somebody who was in it and got the characters introduced into chunks that is easier to process.
Karsticles
Member
Eh. I think it depends on what the character adds. For team-based fighters, more characters = more options. I think of it this way: most games take about a 20 character roster for people to find someone they really like. In 3-man fighter, that means you need about 60 for most people to find 3 characters they really like. Now consider that those 3 characters aren't necessarily compatible (Painwheel and Peacock :-(), and I think it's more clear.
Certainly. Games with weaker character variety like Tekken don't gain as much from more character additions.
ShinMaruku
Member
I agree. I think 25-35 is fine anymore and you are just going to have clones. If they want to add new characters they have to chunk it better and make them unique. Marvel does this well. Skulgirls does too.