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[EDMIX]

Mario Kart numbers isn't shocking, thats a system selling in Japan big time for portable, now Fantasy Life i is actually more of a surprising thing, that game is moving some monster units right now.

Sad he is not coming anymore … The guy committed Seppuku to avoid this kind of threads.

smh wow... I mean, you say this as if you are not next, dear lord, look at more then half of your post in this thread, its just baiting warring shit.

 

[Celine]

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I wonder if the rumoured PS5 Portable is Sony's attempt to get back in Japan.

I still recall how crazy the PS2 launch was there.

 

[IAmRei]

Clearly photoshopped. The PS5 would be twice that size if it was a real picture.

reminds me to my first time in japan in 2023, near TGS, there is one hotel, i think it's franc hotel. they have humidifier or something, which shaped like oversized PS5. and i thought the hotel were nice to add PS5 in their room : ))

 

[kazuyamishima]

I wonder if the rumoured PS5 Portable is Sony's attempt to get back in Japan.

I still recall how crazy the PS2 launch was there.

I don't think they're subsiding systems anymore and the Yen is very low.

 

[Sephiran]

I'm actually kinda surprised Raidou's split Switch vs PS5 is insanely close between them. Normally we'd see 2:1 (if not more) in favor of Switch here. A sign of things to come or just a one-time fluke? Would also imagine this could be due to lots of Switch owners jumping over to Switch 2, but the Switch 2 Edition just being a Game Key card. The Switch 1 version would be BC anyway, so who knows how many of the Switch copies are actually Switch 2 owners and if that's the case, it's a very strong showing for a 3P on (effectively) Switch 2 vs. PS5 considering for at least a little while, PS5 will have the install base advantage. It's probably something like 3.5:1 or 4:1 in favor of PS5 currently, right?

But anyway, Switch 2 sales themselves are doing super-good, and MK World keeps having an insane attach rate and only small drops. Should bode pretty well or DK Bananza. PS5 numbers look like they're around a 5K weekly average outside of the big sales promos and I guess SIE are fine with that. It wouldn't be so bad if actual PS5 software sales weren't so bad in Japan outside of some surprises every now and again, and I don't think digital is a big enough driver for console in Japan to offset low physical sales.



If prices remain super high and the handheld for some reason doesn't deliver, PS6 will definitely end up selling less than PS5 in Japan, let alone on par.

Really, they need a quality handheld and more exclusive software that's appealing to markets like Japan, and don't keep raising prices on everything seemingly senselessly. Nailing those three things would see their hardware and software sales dramatically improve in Japan, and also boost sales globally.

@Seraphym It's hard to quantify if Japanese gamers are or aren't "high fidelity gamers" because for one it depends on what you mean by fidelity. Secondly, we've seen many of them shifting over to PC so, naturally, at least some portion of them are clearly "high fidelity gamers" if they're going to a platform that allows for peak performance (if you're willing to spend the money on building such a rig).

Do core Japanese gamers care about photorealistic graphics as much as equivalent core Western gamers? Probably not. But at the same time I'd argue they care a lot more about higher framerates and smooth framerates in general, than an equivalent Western gamers, and that honestly goes back generations. They might be willing to sacrifice a bit on framerates if a game's got an aesthetic appealing to them though, it's just that core Japanese gamers tend to prefer stylized aesthetics much more, and that goes back decades.

Atlus like Nihon Falcom and others who make similar games usually have a lot of their fanbase on PS in Japan (Given that pretty much all their franchises have been PS exclusive for a long time). Raidou for example is a franchise that never had any history on a Nintendo console before it got ported to Switch/Switch 2 last week.

 

[LordOcidax]

smh wow... I mean, you say this as if you are not next, dear lord, look at more then half of your post in this thread, its just baiting warring shit.

Mario Kart numbers isn't shocking, thats a system selling in Japan big time for portable, now Fantasy Life i is actually more of a surprising thing, that game is moving some monster units right now.




smh wow... I mean, you say this as if you are not next, dear lord, look at more then half of your post in this thread, its just baiting warring shit.

 

[Sakura]

PS sales decline in Japan has been a trend for over 20 years at this point:

PS sales in Japan:

Playstation 1:
19,411,000

Playstation 2:
24,420,000

Playstation 3:
10,469,971

Playstation 4:
9,503,963

Playstation 5:
6,804,660

So every new stationary PS console has declined since the PS2. I don't think you can reverse that. Japanese on average are not high fidelity gamers. The amount of Japanese that own a PS5 pro or a high end gaming PC are minuscule compared to western markets. Most Japanese would rather buy a sub 30 fps Pokemon game on Switch 1 vs something like Death Stranding 2.

I'm not really a fan of these arguments. People always point to the PS2 and talk about how Japan has declined and doesn't buy (non handheld) consoles anymore.
The PS2 launched at 39,800 yen, and only 3 years later (2003) had dropped to a price point of just 19,800 yen.
Adjusted for inflation of the yen, that is about 46,000 yen and then 23,000 yen in 2025 money.

Meanwhile the PS5 launched at 49,980 yen and is currently 72,710 yen. The PS5 is almost 3 times the price the PS2 was at the same point in time.
Not to mention the lacking software lineup compared to PS2 etc.
I would argue that the vast majority of the decline has nothing to do with Japanese not being "high fidelity gamers" or whatever else people say.

 

[Sephiran]

I'm not really a fan of these arguments. People always point to the PS2 and talk about how Japan has declined and doesn't buy (non handheld) consoles anymore.
The PS2 launched at 39,800 yen, and only 3 years later (2003) had dropped to a price point of just 19,800 yen.
Adjusted for inflation of the yen, that is about 46,000 yen and then 23,000 yen in 2025 money.

Meanwhile the PS5 launched at 49,980 yen and is currently 72,710 yen. The PS5 is almost 3 times the price the PS2 was at the same point in time.
Not to mention the lacking software lineup compared to PS2 etc.
I would argue that the vast majority of the decline has nothing to do with Japanese not being "high fidelity gamers" or whatever else people say.

But the thing is you can't disconnect the price from the reality, the reality is that previous PS hardware got price cuts, while current and future PS hardware won't get price cuts (Due to Sony only caring about increased profit margins these days). That means that every new PS will need to move a lot of units on an ever increasing price point in the future. It will probably work well for them in markets like US and Europe, but i have a hard time seeing them being able to compete with Nintendo on Japan, due to every new PS will be seen as ultra expensive in Japan over every new Nintendo console there.

Japanese taste in games have also shifted, games like Final Fantasy and Resident Evil lack the popularity they had during the PS2 era in Japan these days, while games like Zelda have seen an incredible rise in popularity in Japan the last 10 years.

 

[Sakura]

But the thing is you can't disconnect the price from the reality, the reality is that previous PS hardware got price cuts, while current and future PS hardware won't get price cuts (Due to Sony only caring about increased profit margins these days). That means that every new PS will need to move a lot of units on an ever increasing price point in the future. It will probably work well for them in markets like US and Europe, but i have a hard time seeing them being able to compete with Nintendo on Japan, due to every new PS will be seen as ultra expensive in Japan over every new Nintendo console there.

Japanese taste in games have also shifted, games like Final Fantasy and Resident Evil lack the popularity they had during the PS2 era in Japan these days, while games like Zelda have seen an incredible rise in popularity in Japan the last 10 years.

That's Sony's issue, not my problem.

Jokes aside, my point was that the decline in sales has probably very little to do with Japanese being "not high fidelity" gamers like you said, and a lot more to do with other factors like the extremely high price point and lack of exclusive content.
The PS5 will sell less than the PS4 outside Japan as well, just like the PS4 and 3 sold less than the PS2 outside Japan. It's not a Japanese only decline, but it is exacerbated by the higher relative price point in Japan, and the difference in taste in games.
I'm not sure what you mean by "it will work well for them in markets like US and Europe". Do you mean it will work well because they will sell less consoles, but the higher price point will more than make up for that? If so then that is the same in Japan. I wouldn't be surprised if they have made more money off the PS5 in Japan than they did with the PS2, even though the sales are considerably lower, considering the higher price point, paid online, microtransactions etc. Same as in the west.

Sony could compete with Nintendo, I just don't think they want to. They are probably happy with 8~ million PS5s at the price they have it set at, vs selling it at a discount in Japan like Nintendo did with the Switch 2.

I don't think Japanese taste in games have shifted that much. Modern Resident Evil and FF are nothing like old RE and FF. DQ still sells well for example.

 

[Fake]

I wonder if the rumoured PS5 Portable is Sony's attempt to get back in Japan.

I still recall how crazy the PS2 launch was there.

Without software appealing to Japan a portable PS5 wouldn't change shit.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Without software appealing to Japan a portable PS5 wouldn't change shit.

This generation has been the best since the PS2 days for Japanese AAA games though.

Most of which aren't on Switch.

 

[Fake]

This generation has been the best since the PS2 days for Japanese AAA games though.

Most of which aren't on Switch.

Japan disagree with you.

 

[pulicat]

If the PS6 has indeed a portable version like it's rumored, if Sony plays their cards right they could have their most successful gen since the PS2. It all depends on how they take advantage of that.

Even a portable system needs a bunch of system sellers to compliment the hardware in Japan.

Nintendo has top 5 best selling series in Japan.

1. Animal Crossing
2. Mario Kart
3. Pokémon
4. Smash
5. Splatoon

Unless Playstation could secure Dragon Quest exclusively for PS6 for a little chance to stay relevant in Japan, then it's pretty much dead in the water, as Switch 2 is going to strengthen the core franchise on Nintendo system without any competitors for the next couple of years.

 

[pulicat]

This generation has been the best since the PS2 days for Japanese AAA games though.

Most of which aren't on Switch.

Most aren't on the switch but on Steam which has gained significant amount of marketshare against Playstation in Japan.

 

[Ebrietas]

Without software appealing to Japan a portable PS5 wouldn't change shit.

And what exactly is this software? By the numbers it is mostly Nintendo games. The average third party switch game isn't exactly blowing up the charts like Nintendo games are. If Japan mostly wants to play Mario and Zelda at this point then there isn't much Sony can do about that. Making their own imitations can only go so far.

What Sony can do is continue making the ps5 smaller and cheaper and also make a ps6 portable. They have to at least make their hardware more appealing. After that it's mainly up to third parties and their own first party collaborations to drive interest in the console. That marvel tokon game is a good start, but then they shoot themselves in the foot releasing on PC. But again, with very few exceptions, it isn't realistic to expect anything to put up Mario and Zelda numbers.

Also with rise of f2p in Japan Sony needs to make sure they remain the main console for those games. They had the insight to realize genshin would be a big deal so they got involved with the devs early and have reaped the rewards.

 

[Sephiran]

This generation has been the best since the PS2 days for Japanese AAA games though.

Most of which aren't on Switch.

True from a WW perspective, but when we look at the Japanese market specifically, MH, FF, Resident Evil etc are all declining in sales from what they sold during their prime eras in Japan. That points more towards Japanese taste in games in general have shifted a lot since 20 years ago. Games that used to be a big deal in Japan no longer are, while other games like Zelda which were smaller in Japan are now multitude bigger than FF.

 

[Sephiran]

PS5 is now down to a 3,8 % in weekly market share for consoles in Japan, while Xbox is down to 0,1% market share.

 

[Fake]

And what exactly is this software? By the numbers it is mostly Nintendo games.

You answer yourself. Games that appeal to the japanese population. Nintendo do this all the time.

Sony focus on western have his price, as you can see in Japan.

Just look what Wukong did with PS5 in China and for you to ask such silly questions.

Software move sales. Period. Don't appeal to Japan, don't sell in Japan. Portable will not change that whatever people want to believe.
For this to happen Sony would need to release a software in the same level as GTA6 would make outside Japan.

 

[Deerock71]

PS5 is now down to a 3,8 % in weekly market share for consoles in Japan, while Xbox is down to 0,1% market share.

Ah, the Pac-Man chart makes it's return.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Do we know how large the Steam install base is in Japan? My impression was it is growing, but small; however it is highly engaged, so more influential in driving third party decisions than pure size would indicate. Is that incorrect?

Well it's not Steam specifically, but PC's install base grew from ~ 5% a few years ago to 15.3% by 2024, so effectively tripled. Meanwhile, console's share stayed stagnant at ~ 20% during the same time frame (it might've dipped by 1%, not sure), and mobile decreased by something like 6%, but still holds the largest share by far.

It's fair to say that Steam is a major contributor to that PC growth in Japan, and it's probably helping quite a few Japanese multiplat releases hit or exceed sales targets via digital vs. physical sales ratio on PS5 heavily decreasing gen-over-gen (and console digital rate in Japan not being high enough to make up for physical drop).

Because if it remains true that the majority of the Japanese gaming population will prefer to play on consoles over PC, then even PC/PlayStation collaboration titles such as Tokon are going to be significant in driving the install base (all predicated on the games ultimately having broad domestic appeal, which I am assuming at least some will). It maximizes possible global adoption, is an easy way to placate the third party partner, is a concession that does not significantly undermine the value they perceive it brings to the ecosystem, and still has an impact as an exclusive in the domestic market, with minimal bleeding to the PC market.

Yes but the reason more Japanese gamers are gravitating to PC in the first place, is because of stuff like Tokon being available on PC. So you already have people who own both platforms, and now they're weighing the benefits of buying something like Tokon on PC vs a PS5, and end up choosing the former. Be it because it's cheaper, has free online, will inevitably have mod support not available on PS5, can run with better settings on a powerful rig, give a competitive advantage (lower latency monitors & higher refresh rates), more options for controllers/arcade sticks, and less worry about no longer having access if/when servers go offline...

...what I'm describing here is simple: due to various choices (or lack thereof) by SIE for the PS platform over the years, the more they keep releasing games like Tokon on console & PC, even in Japan, the more we're going to see gamers choose the latter. Provided the PC port isn't completely botched (and there's little reason it should be), the benefits of PC just continually outweigh those of console for a growing number of people. And a market like Japan isn't like one such as China, where official consoles were banned only until a few years ago, making it impossible to grow a customer base there.

It's why to some extent, I can understand SIE's PC initiative for markets like China or South Korea, but they would've been better off making those regional initiatives. They didn't need global Steam releases for their PC ports, but they did it anyway, and that's been gradually causing more and more issues with each new port.

It's not a bad strategy at all, I think it is far more effective than what they were trying with Final Fantasy, for example, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see a lot more of this going forward, and fewer third party collaborations that are timed PlayStation exclusives, such as Rise of the Ronin, Final Fantasy, etc.

This is where you and I just happen to differ. With FF in particular, the problem wasn't exclusivity, it was that SE delivered games that heavily divided the fanbase, may've been of questionable quality, and in the instances where they got everything right (Rebirth), paid the price due to prior brand rot and bad decisions. If SE want to blame low sales due to PS exclusivity that's their choice, but putting their FF games everywhere Day 1 won't magically boost sales. Meanwhile we've got games like Stellar Blade which not only didn't suffer due to timed exclusivity on PS5, but likely actually benefited by the time the PC version was released, as it's been selling faster on Steam vs. PS5 launch-aligned.

I agree insofar as we'll likely see less 3P timed exclusives, but not because such harms 3P sales. It'll be because those 3P won't have reason to when SIE themselves have shown an increased lack in supporting their own console with extended or full 1P exclusives. Why should 3P do what SIE don't do? OTOH, I DO want to see SIE do more stuff like Tokon w/ 3P, and it'll be the way going forward in getting more published games out there. My thing is, they don't ALL have to be with PC support in mind, and that is my concern: that we'll see a lot such collabs that are "console exclusive" (as if that means much going forward) but otherwise are Day 1 on PC via Steam, so in a way SIE still kneecap their own console. What's more, that might just convince them to bring all their 1P Day 1 to PC as well, at which point, we're almost guaranteed to see a similar pattern of hardware slowdown and brand identity crisis for PS that we've been seeing Xbox go through.

I wonder if the rumoured PS5 Portable is Sony's attempt to get back in Japan.

I still recall how crazy the PS2 launch was there.

The portable is definitely part of an initiative to claw back some market relevancy in Japan. However, if the software situation remains as-is, a PS portable on its own won't do much.

It would struggle for the same reasons PS5 is: high prices relative alternatives, and lack of genuine exclusive games appealing highly to the Japanese market that are also mass-market friendly & family-friendly in most global markets. Nintendo have an advantage in price and a MASSIVE advantage when it comes to those types of genuine exclusives/IP, so it'd take a lot more than a new handheld to claw back anything significant.

But, it will certainly help as a solid first step, depending on how SIE pull it off.

Atlus like Nihon Falcom and others who make similar games usually have a lot of their fanbase on PS in Japan (Given that pretty much all their franchises have been PS exclusive for a long time). Raidou for example is a franchise that never had any history on a Nintendo console before it got ported to Switch/Switch 2 last week.

Oh, well in that case Raidou's Switch performance is REALLY good, then. Also shows how inept Atlus are being by still having no Switch/Switch 2 version of Metaphor available by now, or even announced. If they announce no port by TGS, I'm convinced Atlus just want Metaphor to fade away.

 

[Ebrietas]

Well it's not Steam specifically, but PC's install base grew from ~ 5% a few years ago to 15.3% by 2024, so effectively tripled. Meanwhile, console's share stayed stagnant at ~ 20% during the same time frame (it might've dipped by 1%, not sure), and mobile decreased by something like 6%, but still holds the largest share by far.

It's fair to say that Steam is a major contributor to that PC growth in Japan, and it's probably helping quite a few Japanese multiplat releases hit or exceed sales targets via digital vs. physical sales ratio on PS5 heavily decreasing gen-over-gen (and console digital rate in Japan not being high enough to make up for physical drop).



Yes but the reason more Japanese gamers are gravitating to PC in the first place, is because of stuff like Tokon being available on PC. So you already have people who own both platforms, and now they're weighing the benefits of buying something like Tokon on PC vs a PS5, and end up choosing the former. Be it because it's cheaper, has free online, will inevitably have mod support not available on PS5, can run with better settings on a powerful rig, give a competitive advantage (lower latency monitors & higher refresh rates), more options for controllers/arcade sticks, and less worry about no longer having access if/when servers go offline...

...what I'm describing here is simple: due to various choices (or lack thereof) by SIE for the PS platform over the years, the more they keep releasing games like Tokon on console & PC, even in Japan, the more we're going to see gamers choose the latter. Provided the PC port isn't completely botched (and there's little reason it should be), the benefits of PC just continually outweigh those of console for a growing number of people. And a market like Japan isn't like one such as China, where official consoles were banned only until a few years ago, making it impossible to grow a customer base there.

It's why to some extent, I can understand SIE's PC initiative for markets like China or South Korea, but they would've been better off making those regional initiatives. They didn't need global Steam releases for their PC ports, but they did it anyway, and that's been gradually causing more and more issues with each new port.



This is where you and I just happen to differ. With FF in particular, the problem wasn't exclusivity, it was that SE delivered games that heavily divided the fanbase, may've been of questionable quality, and in the instances where they got everything right (Rebirth), paid the price due to prior brand rot and bad decisions. If SE want to blame low sales due to PS exclusivity that's their choice, but putting their FF games everywhere Day 1 won't magically boost sales. Meanwhile we've got games like Stellar Blade which not only didn't suffer due to timed exclusivity on PS5, but likely actually benefited by the time the PC version was released, as it's been selling faster on Steam vs. PS5 launch-aligned.

I agree insofar as we'll likely see less 3P timed exclusives, but not because such harms 3P sales. It'll be because those 3P won't have reason to when SIE themselves have shown an increased lack in supporting their own console with extended or full 1P exclusives. Why should 3P do what SIE don't do? OTOH, I DO want to see SIE do more stuff like Tokon w/ 3P, and it'll be the way going forward in getting more published games out there. My thing is, they don't ALL have to be with PC support in mind, and that is my concern: that we'll see a lot such collabs that are "console exclusive" (as if that means much going forward) but otherwise are Day 1 on PC via Steam, so in a way SIE still kneecap their own console. What's more, that might just convince them to bring all their 1P Day 1 to PC as well, at which point, we're almost guaranteed to see a similar pattern of hardware slowdown and brand identity crisis for PS that we've been seeing Xbox go through.



The portable is definitely part of an initiative to claw back some market relevancy in Japan. However, if the software situation remains as-is, a PS portable on its own won't do much.

It would struggle for the same reasons PS5 is: high prices relative alternatives, and lack of genuine exclusive games appealing highly to the Japanese market that are also mass-market friendly & family-friendly in most global markets. Nintendo have an advantage in price and a MASSIVE advantage when it comes to those types of genuine exclusives/IP, so it'd take a lot more than a new handheld to claw back anything significant.

But, it will certainly help as a solid first step, depending on how SIE pull it off.



Oh, well in that case Raidou's Switch performance is REALLY good, then. Also shows how inept Atlus are being by still having no Switch/Switch 2 version of Metaphor available by now, or even announced. If they announce no port by TGS, I'm convinced Atlus just want Metaphor to fade away.

I think Sony's best play in Japan in terms of software is continuing to invest heavily in F2P gacha like Genshin Impact, which have already been shown to take up a greater percent of PS5 play time in Japan vs the rest of the world. There is much more potential for growth there vs traditional packaged software, which is increasingly dominated by the same Mario and Zelda games. Even previously big third party franchises like Monster Hunter are starting to see sales contractions.

People keep bringing up Switch vs PS5 sales and miss the bigger story. Third party publishers on the Switch are also getting crushed by Nintendo over there.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Even a portable system needs a bunch of system sellers to compliment the hardware in Japan.

Nintendo has top 5 best selling series in Japan.

1. Animal Crossing
2. Mario Kart
3. Pokémon
4. Smash
5. Splatoon

Unless Playstation could secure Dragon Quest exclusively for PS6 for a little chance to stay relevant in Japan, then it's pretty much dead in the water, as Switch 2 is going to strengthen the core franchise on Nintendo system without any competitors for the next couple of years.

or they could starting making their own games for the market? i know it's a wild thought. but even those games are selling very well in the west.

 

[Amin_Parker]

Even a portable system needs a bunch of system sellers to compliment the hardware in Japan.

Nintendo has top 5 best selling series in Japan.

1. Animal Crossing
2. Mario Kart
3. Pokémon
4. Smash
5. Splatoon

Unless Playstation could secure Dragon Quest exclusively for PS6 for a little chance to stay relevant in Japan, then it's pretty much dead in the water, as Switch 2 is going to strengthen the core franchise on Nintendo system without any competitors for the next couple of years.

If the Sony fans on the site allow themselves to read your statement and let it sink in, They will all agree with you, but they would probably never tell you that they agree with you. However, what you said makes sense. If the Nintendo switch continues to dominate Japan in the form of the Nintendo switch 2 then what will happen is 3rd parties especially the big AAA third parties are eventually going to be putting their games on the Nintendo switch 2. And even though third parties prefer the PlayStation brand they are still going to put a version of their triple AAA games on the switch 2 because it is doing so well in Japan as a brand And these companies actually want their franchises to be successful so they're going to have no choice but to continue putting their games on the switch 2. What is going to happen Is the children in Japan that purchase these big AAA blockbusters are always going to associate these franchises with Nintendo systems . And then overtime the same franchises are going to skyrocket eventually in popularity on Nintendo system. Because it will be associated with the brand. Those children are going to become teenagers and they're going to continue buying the Nintendo system and they will continue supporting these big AAA third-party series. And then those teenagers are going to become adults and they're going to continue sticking with Nintendo because all of the games that they want from first party and 3rd parties is on the Nintendo switch brand. This isn't rocket science. Even though these western Sony fans have a hard time comprehending your point (maybe because they were born in the west) They think that the third parties are just going to continue supporting Sony with their big AAA franchises from now to the end of time exclusively, but it doesn't work that way. Things are going to be similar to the way they were back in the original Nintendo and super Nintendo generation where all third parties were on Nintendo system. Let me make it more clear if the 3rd parties begin to see that there is a dedicated fan based buying their games in Japan then they will continue putting a version of those big triple A games on Nintendo systems even though the west will continue buying those franchises on ps 3rd parties could rely on the Japanese consumers to buy those games on Nintendo system . So basically everything's gonna be multi platform anyway and Nintendo will be included in the conversation among the other 3rd parties and their franchises. Not every game will come over, but it will be much more than sony fans can imagine. And that's why Nintendo system is going to continue doing great because Nintendo was smart enough to target Japan because they knew that it was going to get them success overall worldwide in the end. Having the Japanese 100% in Nintendo's back pocket is a smart move so don't let no one else tell you otherwise.

Having a whole entire nation of people in your back pocket through thick and then, no matter what, will keep Nintendo in a powerfully strong position forever.

 

[Physiognomonics]

i would buy a very good animal crossing ish game on playstation. at some point they were trying a figthing game, playstation allstars, and a monster hunter clone. they never should have stopped.

nintendo have been perfecting their formulas for decades.

now they have success with a mario clone, but only because a small passionate team is behind, without been commanded to do so. team asobi had to convince the managers accountants in charge with a playble demo to make their astrobot on ps5 even with their previous successful games/demos.

me think 400$ million concord team didn't have to convince the woke in charge

 

[pulicat]

If the Sony fans on the site allow themselves to read your statement and let it sink in, They will all agree with you, but they would probably never tell you that they agree with you. However, what you said makes sense. If the Nintendo switch continues to dominate Japan in the form of the Nintendo switch 2 then what will happen is 3rd parties especially the big AAA third parties are eventually going to be putting their games on the Nintendo switch 2. And even though third parties prefer the PlayStation brand they are still going to put a version of their triple AAA games on the switch 2 because it is doing so well in Japan as a brand And these companies actually want their franchises to be successful so they're going to have no choice but to continue putting their games on the switch 2. What is going to happen Is the children in Japan that purchase these big AAA blockbusters are always going to associate these franchises with Nintendo systems . And then overtime the same franchises are going to skyrocket eventually in popularity on Nintendo system. Because it will be associated with the brand. Those children are going to become teenagers and they're going to continue buying the Nintendo system and they will continue supporting these big AAA third-party series. And then those teenagers are going to become adults and they're going to continue sticking with Nintendo because all of the games that they want from first party and 3rd parties is on the Nintendo switch brand. This isn't rocket science. Even though these western Sony fans have a hard time comprehending your point (maybe because they were born in the west) They think that the third parties are just going to continue supporting Sony with their big AAA franchises from now to the end of time exclusively, but it doesn't work that way. Things are going to be similar to the way they were back in the original Nintendo and super Nintendo generation where all third parties were on Nintendo system. Let me make it more clear if the 3rd parties begin to see that there is a dedicated fan based buying their games in Japan then they will continue putting a version of those big triple A games on Nintendo systems even though the west will continue buying those franchises on ps 3rd parties could rely on the Japanese consumers to buy those games on Nintendo system . So basically everything's gonna be multi platform anyway and Nintendo will be included in the conversation among the other 3rd parties and their franchises. Not every game will come over, but it will be much more than sony fans can imagine. And that's why Nintendo system is going to continue doing great because Nintendo was smart enough to target Japan because they knew that it was going to get them success overall worldwide in the end. Having the Japanese 100% in Nintendo's back pocket is a smart move so don't let no one else tell you otherwise.

Having a whole entire nation of people in your back pocket through thick and then, no matter what, will keep Nintendo in a powerfully strong position forever.

We have a perfect example of brand loyalty that resulted in a sales catastrophe, and that's the Final Fantasy series. Square Enix was reluctant to put AAA Final Fantasy games on other platforms except PlayStation, no matter how big or small the user base was there in Japan.

The Final Fantasy series sales went from 3.5 million units sold for a single title to just 300k units sold after prioritizing the PlayStation platform in Japan for the past 25 years. Now they have realized if a new generation of gamers didn't play or have exposure to their Final Fantasy games on the primary gaming platform in Japan, then you're not going to see most of them playing those games when they grow older, but at least for now they're changing their stupid loyalty principle and deciding simultaneous release on multiple platforms is the right way moving forward.

 

[LordOcidax]

We have a perfect example of brand loyalty that resulted in a sales catastrophe, and that's the Final Fantasy series. Square Enix was reluctant to put AAA Final Fantasy games on other platforms except PlayStation, no matter how big or small the user base was there in Japan.

The Final Fantasy series sales went from 3.5 million units sold for a single title to just 300k units sold after prioritizing the PlayStation platform in Japan for the past 25 years. Now they have realized if a new generation of gamers didn't play or have exposure to their Final Fantasy games on the primary gaming platform in Japan, then you're not going to see most of them playing those games when they grow older, but at least for now they're changing their stupid loyalty principle and deciding simultaneous release on multiple platforms is the right way moving forward.

SE betrayed the FF fanbase changing everything that we love about the game.

 

[K' Dash]

Sony doesn't care anymore about the Japanese market.

That's ok, they will get curb stomped by Nintendo on any market

 

[Woopah]

Fantastic results for Switch 2 hardware and MKW software. So weird to see the same game four times in the top 10.

Also I'm happy to see all the interest in sales talk! There's a lot to discuss so apologies in advance for all the quotes.

I think Sony caring or not has very little to do with it. Japan has simply become a mobile/handheld market.

If the PS6 has indeed a portable version like it's rumored, if Sony plays their cards right they could have their most successful gen since the PS2. It all depends on how they take advantage of that.

Stationary consoles in general have been in a major state of decline for decades in Japan. The Wii was a sensational global smash in terms of sales from 2006-2009, but it never reached more than 12 million in Japan, vs 45+ million in NA and 33+ million in Europe, for example. So it isn't necessarily a decline of Playstation itself, rather it is a waning appetite for home consoles in general. For example, the PSP sold extremely well in Japan, around 20 million units, which is huge. That's near 3DS-level market penetration in Japan.

Particularly since the Switch in 2017, where 3DS got it's successor + it was also Nintendo's new primary platform also replacing home consoles, that trend has only accelerated. With the advent of mobile graphics like what is possible with Switch and now Switch 2, there's just less and less of a reason for stationary home consoles to be needed.

If Sony wanted to pursue a Switch-like dedicated platform that is equally well-suited to mobile play + TV console gaming like Switch 1 & 2 are, with the right combination of available software and services, no doubt it could potentially find a lot of success in Japan.

Software support is just as important if not more so than form factor. If you had a home console with the Switch lineup and a portable with the PS5 lineup, the home console would sell more in Japan.

The games have much more mass appeal and playing games on the TV is still major part of the Japanese market.

Sad he is not coming anymore … The guy committed Seppuku to avoid this kind of threads.

What happened to Mibu?

 

[LordOcidax]

What happened to Mibu?

 

[Woopah]

Great start for Switch 2. Lots of Japanese games coming to that system with numbers like this.

If we've learnt anything from Switch it's that lots of Japanese games will skip your platform even if you sell well in Japan.

The future of Japanse third party development is on the Switch 2 in combination with PC as lead platforms - sooner or later even the big dominos will fall like Square Enix did. All major publishers are after all just two or three major projects underperforming away from trouble and AAA projects always carry much greater risk than anything a publisher like Level 5 or Marvelous will put out.

I don't see this happening, given the market trends outside Japan. The future of Japanese AA development is on Switch 2, but for Japanese AAA the focus will remain on PC and PS. Switch 2 might get more ports than the the original Switch got.

I'm actually kinda surprised Raidou's split Switch vs PS5 is insanely close between them. Normally we'd see 2:1 (if not more) in favor of Switch here. A sign of things to come or just a one-time fluke? Would also imagine this could be due to lots of Switch owners jumping over to Switch 2, but the Switch 2 Edition just being a Game Key card. The Switch 1 version would be BC anyway, so who knows how many of the Switch copies are actually Switch 2 owners and if that's the case, it's a very strong showing for a 3P on (effectively) Switch 2 vs. PS5 considering for at least a little while, PS5 will have the install base advantage. It's probably something like 3.5:1 or 4:1 in favor of PS5 currently, right?

For this type of release, it matters where the original game came out.

As a remaster of PS2 game, theres more nostalgia for it in the PlayStation audience.

Mario Kart numbers isn't shocking, thats a system selling in Japan big time for portable, now Fantasy Life i is actually more of a surprising thing, that game is moving some monster units right now.

After nearly a decade of constant fuck ups, Level 5 has an actual success. Hopefully the same happens with Inazuma 11 and Professor Layton.

Permanently?

 

[LordOcidax]

Permanently?

Yes

 

[Three]

With the exception of some weeks where it might just miss it, I expect it to stay in there the entire life of the console. MK8 is in there almost every week isn't it?

Top 10? Doubtful. Top 20, sure. Unless you think the lifetime of the console is < 3 years.

 

[Sojiro]

Top 10? Doubtful. Top 20, sure. Unless you think the lifetime of the console is < 3 years.

No you are right, I think in my head I saw 10 and was thinking 20, but yeah top 20 I expect it to stay in the console life.

 

[Woopah]

Yes

Disappointing, I had a lot of conversations with him.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I think Sony's best play in Japan in terms of software is continuing to invest heavily in F2P gacha like Genshin Impact, which have already been shown to take up a greater percent of PS5 play time in Japan vs the rest of the world. There is much more potential for growth there vs traditional packaged software, which is increasingly dominated by the same Mario and Zelda games. Even previously big third party franchises like Monster Hunter are starting to see sales contractions.

People keep bringing up Switch vs PS5 sales and miss the bigger story. Third party publishers on the Switch are also getting crushed by Nintendo over there.

Yeah but can Sony/SIE get something like Genshin Impact as an actual exclusive? Can they make something like Genshin that's exclusive to PS? Because that's the only way they're going to seriously beef up the hardware sales and truly make up for shortfall in traditional B2P sales slumps for the console in Japan.

SIE have to get serious at some point about prioritizing even what GAAS/F2P games go to platforms aside PlayStation; they can't take a full-slate porting strategy in that department either. They're going to have to reconcile with that and focus on getting 1 or 2 massive GAAS/F2P/gatcha-whatever games on their console and keeping them there exclusively.

And it's not like this is unprecedented. Valve's games (virtually all of them) are exclusive to Steam, including their GAAS/MOBA titles, and do very well. Fortnite is exclusive to EGS on PC, and does extremely well. If you want to try putting Mario Kart or Smash Bros in a mixed live-service categorization, well those are exclusive to Nintendo's consoles and do super well on them.

We have a perfect example of brand loyalty that resulted in a sales catastrophe, and that's the Final Fantasy series. Square Enix was reluctant to put AAA Final Fantasy games on other platforms except PlayStation, no matter how big or small the user base was there in Japan.

The Final Fantasy series sales went from 3.5 million units sold for a single title to just 300k units sold after prioritizing the PlayStation platform in Japan for the past 25 years. Now they have realized if a new generation of gamers didn't play or have exposure to their Final Fantasy games on the primary gaming platform in Japan, then you're not going to see most of them playing those games when they grow older, but at least for now they're changing their stupid loyalty principle and deciding simultaneous release on multiple platforms is the right way moving forward.

This is only looking at it from one POV. You can't ignore how badly SE have mishandled the FF franchise's creative choices over the years, going back to FF XIII way back in the PS3/360 era I'd argue. Though some might go even further back to some of the X spinoffs on PS2.

By "mishandled", I mean the creative teams up and changing so much between installments that even things fans loved about a previous installment would be missing in the next. This in turn created a lot of very intense sub-groups within the fandom with quite divisive takes on what a "real" Final Fantasy is. Not to mention, with games like XIII and XV, Square-Enix made promises that weren't actually kept, cutting out lots of planned content or changing creative direction midway through development into areas some fans didn't appreciate, not to mention major delays.

Basically, they turned Final Fantasy into modern Sonic.

Even with games like XVI, again you have a creative direction that some segments of the core fanbase absolutely DID NOT like, while the game also failed to impress people outside of the core fanbase who'd otherwise be new to the IP. There's a reason more and more people have been calling E33 what FF XVI should have been, and that's because in some ways that's actually true. The problem with mainline Final Fantasy games in terms of selling well or not go way beyond platform exclusivity at this point which, IMO, is more a red herring. We have plenty of other exclusives on PS that have sold very well; while those aren't JRPGs (or WRPGs for that matter), it's not as easy as then saying "well then RPGs can't be exclusive and do well on PS in Japan or elsewhere" because you'd actually need to test that out with an RPG that's wholly satisfying and not tied down by a certain IP's branding baggage the way FF is. For PS, that hasn't happened, so there's no way to test that type of claim.

I do agree that SE bringing FF to more platforms will help to an extent, but the two main viable ones are Steam and Switch/Switch 2, with more weighing in favor of the latter. But how big of a sales boost are they expecting by putting the games on those platforms with late ports or even Day 1, if the root problems mentioned earlier go unresolved? We're talking maybe a 40-50% increase in total sales, and a shifting perhaps away from PS and towards Nintendo (or Steam) in terms of what platform contributes the most sales. But it's not the tripling of sales some people and I assume Square-Enix themselves are thinking will happen.

Only when (or even if) those root problems with the IP are finally solved, can they expect genuinely great sales. If the franchise is Day 1 multiplat across other viable products by that point, then they may in fact see that 2x - 3x increase in sales they're probably looking for.

Yes

Wait, really? What was the ban over?

I mean, I disagreed a lot with some of his takes regarding PlayStation (the PC ports being a good idea/not risking any long-term drain from the console base towards PC chief among them), but they at least put some thought behind their responses. And it's not like there weren't things we agreed on; Marvel Tokon was one of the more recent (from a platform and business POV).

 

[Hookshot]

His ban message reads

We are done with your condescending and toxic attitude. Goodbye

 

[Ebrietas]

Yeah but can Sony/SIE get something like Genshin Impact as an actual exclusive? Can they make something like Genshin that's exclusive to PS? Because that's the only way they're going to seriously beef up the hardware sales and truly make up for shortfall in traditional B2P sales slumps for the console in Japan.

SIE have to get serious at some point about prioritizing even what GAAS/F2P games go to platforms aside PlayStation; they can't take a full-slate porting strategy in that department either. They're going to have to reconcile with that and focus on getting 1 or 2 massive GAAS/F2P/gatcha-whatever games on their console and keeping them there exclusively.

And it's not like this is unprecedented. Valve's games (virtually all of them) are exclusive to Steam, including their GAAS/MOBA titles, and do very well. Fortnite is exclusive to EGS on PC, and does extremely well. If you want to try putting Mario Kart or Smash Bros in a mixed live-service categorization, well those are exclusive to Nintendo's consoles and do super well on them.

100% agreed. Sony really needs to get over this delusion that porting their games to other platforms is somehow a win-win. It isn't. Even for GAAS.

Out of their three competing platforms, Valve, Nintendo, and MS, only one of them followed that path and with catastrophic results. While the other two maintain a complete or near complete exclusivity strategy, and by many metrics are running circles around Sony's platform.

There is also a false assumption that has gained ground that a game exclusive to PS5 will either fail or have its potential severely kneecapped, as opposed to Switch or PC exclusives, which are somehow seen as smart business moves. Look no further than the reaction to the From Soft Switch 2 exclusive. Not a single word of protest from the usual PC crowd who cry day and night over Sony keeping DeS and BB exclusive to their consoles. Despite PS consoles being proven JRPG sellers (i.e. just look at how much the Persona franchise blew up on PS4 as an exclusive, where Switch and PC expanded the audience relatively little despite years of port begging).

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Those "Pro" numbers...

 

[Woopah]

Yeah but can Sony/SIE get something like Genshin Impact as an actual exclusive? Can they make something like Genshin that's exclusive to PS? Because that's the only way they're going to seriously beef up the hardware sales and truly make up for shortfall in traditional B2P sales slumps for the console in Japan.

SIE have to get serious at some point about prioritizing even what GAAS/F2P games go to platforms aside PlayStation; they can't take a full-slate porting strategy in that department either. They're going to have to reconcile with that and focus on getting 1 or 2 massive GAAS/F2P/gatcha-whatever games on their console and keeping them there exclusively.

And it's not like this is unprecedented. Valve's games (virtually all of them) are exclusive to Steam, including their GAAS/MOBA titles, and do very well. Fortnite is exclusive to EGS on PC, and does extremely well. If you want to try putting Mario Kart or Smash Bros in a mixed live-service categorization, well those are exclusive to Nintendo's consoles and do super well on them.

The issue I see here is the risk. With Japanese development getting more and more multiplatform, how many team ate going to make PS exclusive GAAS games?

And even if you do, there's no guarantee that moves the needle for PS in Japan (just look at Foamstars for instance).

 

[Fake]

Those "Pro" numbers...

Somehow still better than the DE model.

DE was a mistake.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

If we've learnt anything from Switch it's that lots of Japanese games will skip your platform even if you sell well in Japan.

A lot of that is due to specs more than anything else. If a game was designed to run on high-end PS5 hardware, it's not always possible to make it work on Switch. The best Switch software is software designed to run on the Switch from the outset.

With the market performance of Switch since 2017, no doubt a lot of publishers and developers have seen that perhaps making a game that can easily run on Switch is good for business, and thus the issue of a lot of games not being technically feasible of running on Switch will likely diminish further and further as we get to Switch 2.

 

[LordOcidax]

A lot of that is due to specs more than anything else. If a game was designed to run on high-end PS5 hardware, it's not always possible to make it work on Switch. The best Switch software is software designed to run on the Switch from the outset.

With the market performance of Switch since 2017, no doubt a lot of publishers and developers have seen that perhaps making a game that can easily run on Switch is good for business, and thus the issue of a lot of games not being technically feasible of running on Switch will likely diminish further and further as we get to Switch 2.

When the Switch 2 starts receiving third party games on launch date like the PS5 it's going to get worse for Sony in Japan.

 

[Baemono]

Somehow still better than the DE model.

DE was a mistake.

It's like the Switch Lite, people usually don't want compromises if the price difference is not that big.

That's kinda where Xbox failed to understand with the Series S. A disc-less version of the Series X sold at 399 would've be more successful than a disc-less stripped-down console that struggles to run current gen games at 299.

 

[Baemono]

When the Switch 2 starts receiving third party games on launch date like the PS5 it's going to get worse for Sony in Japan.

I'd hate to agree with S Sephiran on this but I'm still surprised we got barely any announcements from other devs besides the launch games for Switch 2.

 

[Warspite]

I'd hate to agree with S Sephiran on this but I'm still surprised we got barely any announcements from other devs besides the launch games for Switch 2.

Everything after July seems like a bit of a gray area for the Switch 2 right now. What we do know for 3rd parties was because we got dates for versions on other platforms. (thinking FF7 there)

 

[Woopah]

A lot of that is due to specs more than anything else. If a game was designed to run on high-end PS5 hardware, it's not always possible to make it work on Switch. The best Switch software is software designed to run on the Switch from the outset.

With the market performance of Switch since 2017, no doubt a lot of publishers and developers have seen that perhaps making a game that can easily run on Switch is good for business, and thus the issue of a lot of games not being technically feasible of running on Switch will likely diminish further and further as we get to Switch 2.

In some cases yes. We saw the performance of Switch lead to companies like Konami, Falcom and Cyberconnect2 change their minds and start providing more support than they did at launch.

But in other cases it didn't happen. SMT Soul Hackers 2 and the Persona 5 remake were clearly not designed for high-end hardware, and yet the very strong performance of Switch both domestically and internationally did not change Atlus' decision making. They brought those games to every platform except Switch.

We saw that happen with other games too, such as Like A Dragon and several Bandai Namco amime games.

Amd so far their approach seems to be holding the same, given that Switch 2 isn't currently announced for games like the Persona 4 remake or the next Digimon game

Everything you say is completely logical and makes sense, I'm just not convinced that Japanese third parties see it that way. I'd need to see more third party announcements that indicate a shif in mindset.

When the Switch 2 starts receiving third party games on launch date like the PS5 it's going to get worse for Sony in Japan.

It might happen. But at this stage it's still a matter of "if", not "when".

 

[Hookshot]

There's a Bandai Namco showcase tomorrow. If that's not announcing Switch 2 games then something odd is going on.

 

[LordOcidax]

There's a Bandai Namco showcase tomorrow. If that's not announcing Switch 2 games then something odd is going on.

Nintendo is going to announce all the big third party games in a Direct, like always.