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[Escape Goat]

I think the moderates in Boehners caucus will openly revolt and side with Democrats to avoid default. They'll wait until the 11th hour though.

 

[Philia]

Its been a week now... are the furloughed employees back to work yet? I'm concerned for a friend of mine who works for EPA.

 

[Ourobolus]

Ugh, just got word that in the coming weeks we may be furloughed (or maybe just work from home and still get paid *crosses fingers*) if this keeps up. Nothing definite yet, but I really hope it doesn't happen. :/

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Its been a week now... are the furloughed employees back to work yet? I'm concerned for a friend of mine who works for EPA.

Depends on the agency. Most (90%) DOD civilian employees are back to work.
EPA? I don't think so.

 

[Escape Goat]

House would keep the EPA permanently shutdown if they could.

 

[BLACKLAC]

I think the moderates in Boehners caucus will openly revolt and side with Democrats to avoid default. They'll wait until the 11th hour though.

Yup. There are a lot of weak links in the house Republicans which is why a clean CR has not been put to a vote. Next week those links will break.

 

[cdkee]

How about show some balls by negotiating with the Republicans and giving them just enough to make them happy. Is that too much to ask for?

That's the worst thing he could do. He would set that precedent, and the Republicans would then hold the nation hostage whenever they need something. Make no mistake, this entire thing is on them. You CANNOT lose elections, fail to pass legislation, and then pull bullshit like this. That's not what democracy is.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

That's the worst thing he could do. He would set that precedent, and the Republicans would then hold the nation hostage whenever they need something. Make no mistake, this entire thing is on them. You CANNOT lose elections, fail to pass legislation, and then pull bullshit like this. That's not what democracy is.

Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. It would be disasterous if Obama gave up anything.

 

[empty vessel]

How about show some balls by negotiating with the Republicans and giving them just enough to make them happy. Is that too much to ask for?

That's what the CR is.

 

[slit]

I'll bet money that we default this time. Just a gut feeling, really.

It's certainly a possibility, especially when you have a powerful faction on one side that thinks it'll be fine to default.

 

[jay]

That's the worst thing he could do. He would set that precedent, and the Republicans would then hold the nation hostage whenever they need something. Make no mistake, this entire thing is on them. You CANNOT lose elections, fail to pass legislation, and then pull bullshit like this. That's not what democracy is.

But Bulbo agrees with the Republicans so LA LA LA LA LA LA

 

[slit]

House would keep the EPA permanently shutdown if they could.

This is why they're offering these piecemeal deals and forunately the Dems aren't falling for it.

 

[Fenderputty]

How about show some balls by negotiating with the Republicans and giving them just enough to make them happy. Is that too much to ask for?

Yes it is. What are the republicans giving up in this exchange? Funding the goverment at GOP levels isn't a compromise.

 

[Incognito]

Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. It would be disasterous if Obama gave up anything.

Come on, man. Obama can't give a dog a bone? How about Keystone, for starters?

 

[Homeboyd]

You CANNOT lose elections, fail to pass legislation, and then pull bullshit like this.

Clearly, you can.

 

[PhoenixDark]

House would keep the EPA permanently shutdown if they could.

Which is why this piecemeal approach to opening government should not be tolerated. Obama needs to hold firm.

 

[Riki]

Clearly, you can.

They are trying, but it's not goimg well for them.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

But Bulbo agrees with the Republicans so LA LA LA LA LA LA

I can't believe people don't have bulbo on ignore, he has never backed up any argument he's ever stated

I take it you don't agree.
Think of it like this.
Obama is the captain of a ship out at sea. For whatever reason, a portion of the crew has decided to mutiny. IMO, he has 4 options:
1. Jump off the ship.
2. Let the crew fight each other while remaining locked up in the bridge.
3. Join the crew in battle.
4. Negotiate with the portion of the crew that is throwing a mutiny.

#1 isn't really even an option. It's suicidal. #2 leaves a heavily damaged crew and ship and possibly no way to return. It also makes him look like a coward. #3 really has more risk than reward. He's only one extra man in battle. #4 is his best option to avoid losing the ship at sea. Does it make him weak? I don't think so.
Now, it all depends on what the crew wants, doesn't it? Asking that he turn the ship around and delay the voyage for a short time doesn't sound unreasonable to me, seeing that the captain hasn't prepared the crew well enough and has only a vague idea of where the ship is sailing.

 

[Koomaster]

He should be on Lanikai Beach eating shaved ice.

If I were him I'd go on tv with the basic message that the republicans need to get their house in order. Then I'd take a vacation till it was over. Ya'll sort this shit out, there is nothing for me to negotiate with here so call me when you get over your tantrum.

 

[jay]

I take it you don't agree.
Think of it like this.
Obama is the captain of a ship out at sea. For whatever reason, a portion of the crew has decided to mutiny. IMO, he has 4 options:
1. Jump off the ship.
2. Let the crew fight each other while remaining locked up in the bridge.
3. Join the crew in battle.
4. Negotiate with the portion of the crew that is throwing a mutiny.

#1 isn't really even an option. It's suicidal. #2 leaves a heavily damaged crew and ship and possibly no way to return. It also makes him look like a coward. #3 really has more risk than reward. He's only one extra man in battle. #4 is his best option to avoid losing the ship at sea. Does it make him weak? I don't think so.
Now, it all depends on what the crew wants, doesn't it? Asking that he turn the ship around and delay the voyage for a short time doesn't sound unreasonable to me, seeing that the captain hasn't prepared the crew well enough and has only a vague idea of where the ship is sailing.

But you construct metaphors around the premise that Obama is wrong. Try coming up with a metaphor for W being in office and the Dems shutting down the government until he agrees to mandatory abortions for all. I bet it will look a bit different.

 

[joeposh]

How about show some balls by negotiating with the Republicans and giving them just enough to make them happy. Is that too much to ask for?

And many would argue that refusing to do just that is what truly constitutes showing balls.

 

[Maninthemirror]

How about show some balls by negotiating with the Republicans and giving them just enough to make them happy. Is that too much to ask for?

So you admit they are holding the economy hostage. Progress

 

[KingGondo]

I heard from Robert Costa that there's a chance that even if a clean CR passes the House, that it might not pass the Senate.

Can anyone here give me the lay of the land?

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

But you construct metaphors around the premise that Obama is wrong. Try coming up with a metaphor for W being in office and the Dems shutting down the government until he agrees to mandatory abortions for all. I bet it will look a bit different.

Exactly. Any analogy is just going get hung up on the rationality of the demands.

 

[Takamura-San]

I heard from Robert Costa that there's a chance that even if a clean CR passes the House, that it might not pass the Senate.

Can anyone here give me the lay of the land?

If i'm not mistaken it already passed on the senate.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

If i'm not mistaken it already passed on the senate.

Reid is considering passing a Senate bill first--it's slightly questionable whether that would pass but I don't think there's any way the Senate GOP would want to be seen filibustering a clean bill that had already passed the House.

 

[Buddha Beam]

I take it you don't agree.
Think of it like this.
Obama is the captain of a ship out at sea. For whatever reason, a portion of the crew has decided to mutiny. IMO, he has 4 options:
1. Jump off the ship.
2. Let the crew fight each other while remaining locked up in the bridge.
3. Join the crew in battle.
4. Negotiate with the portion of the crew that is throwing a mutiny.

#1 isn't really even an option. It's suicidal. #2 leaves a heavily damaged crew and ship and possibly no way to return. It also makes him look like a coward. #3 really has more risk than reward. He's only one extra man in battle. #4 is his best option to avoid losing the ship at sea. Does it make him weak? I don't think so.
Now, it all depends on what the crew wants, doesn't it? Asking that he turn the ship around and delay the voyage for a short time doesn't sound unreasonable to me, seeing that the captain hasn't prepared the crew well enough and has only a vague idea of where the ship is sailing.

The problem with your analogy is that you aren't taking into account the reason the part of the crazy crew decided mutiny – because they want to sail the ship off the edge of the world.

It's very simple. You DON'T negotiate with hostage takers. If he did what you wanted, it would almost certainly lead to the end of this country as we know it. There would be nothing that a well funded but tiny group of radicals couldn't accomplish by illegitimate means.

 

[pigeon]

I heard from Robert Costa that there's a chance that even if a clean CR passes the House, that it might not pass the Senate.

Can anyone here give me the lay of the land?

The clean CR passed the Senate over a week ago, in September. I think people are confusing the CR with the debt ceiling increase here. Reid is planning a vote on the debt ceiling, but it hasn't passed yet.

 

[KingGondo]

The clean CR passed the Senate over a week ago, in September. I think people are confusing the CR with the debt ceiling increase here. Reid is planning a vote on the debt ceiling, but it hasn't passed yet.

OK. Thanks for the answers.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

leadership, in my view, is the ability to appropriately discern the objectives of the actors you are negotiating with and then be able to provide concessions they will accept that at the same time prove palatable to your side. obama, imho, has shown none of these traits in office. in fact, quite the opposite. he's in this position because republicans have been steamrolling him for a good 4 years, now. republicans rightly believed he would cave given past behavior but i guess the arrogance earned from a close reelection victory has provided obama with a new, dangerous outlook on how government is supposed to work. of all the times to take a stand, it's over the debt ceiling? he should have dropped the gauntlet to disgruntled republicans on day 1, in 2009 so as to disabuse them of any notion that he could be trifled with.

I think you are underestimating the pure vitriol and racism inherent in the Republican base. Obama can put forth Republican ideas to be enacted into law, and still, they try to shit all over him. I wonder why?

 

[Vestal]

I take it you don't agree.
Think of it like this.
Obama is the captain of a ship out at sea. For whatever reason, a portion of the crew has decided to mutiny. IMO, he has 4 options:
1. Jump off the ship.
2. Let the crew fight each other while remaining locked up in the bridge.
3. Join the crew in battle.
4. Negotiate with the portion of the crew that is throwing a mutiny.

#1 isn't really even an option. It's suicidal. #2 leaves a heavily damaged crew and ship and possibly no way to return. It also makes him look like a coward. #3 really has more risk than reward. He's only one extra man in battle. #4 is his best option to avoid losing the ship at sea. Does it make him weak? I don't think so.
Now, it all depends on what the crew wants, doesn't it? Asking that he turn the ship around and delay the voyage for a short time doesn't sound unreasonable to me, seeing that the captain hasn't prepared the crew well enough and has only a vague idea of where the ship is sailing.

fun analogy.

you left out the part were that ship is carrying important cargo for which those that pay the ship depend on. So should those people suffer because you have a mutiny??


Not to mention that the ship is not a democracy. If it was a military ship, those going against the captain would get back to port and tried for war crimes.

 

[Ecotic]

Markets are getting slaughtered. Strong stocks like Facebook and Linkedin off more than 5%.

 

[Riki]

Markets are getting slaughtered. Strong stocks like Facebook and Linkedin off more than 5%.

The closer we get to default the worse it will get. People pulling out enmass.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Markets are getting slaughtered. Strong stocks like Facebook and Linkedin off more than 5%.

And yet he stands strong on a platform of ignorance and deception.

 

[Blader]

Come on, man. Obama can't give a dog a bone? How about Keystone, for starters?

Well that's about as unrelated to the situation as ACA, so sure, why not?

 

[teruterubozu]

I take it you don't agree.
Think of it like this.
Obama is the captain of a ship out at sea. For whatever reason, a portion of the crew has decided to mutiny. IMO, he has 4 options:
1. Jump off the ship.
2. Let the crew fight each other while remaining locked up in the bridge.
3. Join the crew in battle.
4. Negotiate with the portion of the crew that is throwing a mutiny.

5. Pull out the cat o' nine tails for a masthead flogging. (man, I wish that was an option)

 

[slit]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101094404

Boehner says he won't "draw any lines in the sand" whatever that means.

This is getting sad. Boehner seems to be getting frantic and he and the GOP have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Asking that he turn the ship around and delay the voyage for a short time doesn't sound unreasonable to me, seeing that the captain hasn't prepared the crew well enough and has only a vague idea of where the ship is sailing.

You should know full well that it is not reasonable- and a horrible precedent- for the President to negotiate with these tactics.

 

[slit]

You should know full well that it is not reasonable- and a horrible precedent- for the President to negotiate with these tactics.

He trolls. It's not even worth responding to.

 

[Zero Hero]

http://repmarktakano.tumblr.com/post/62924153375/speaker-boehner-wants-to-negotiate-great-heres

 

[jay]

He trolls. It's not even worth responding to.

Having (terrible) opinions doesn't make you a troll.

 

[BLACKLAC]

Boehner says he won't "draw any lines in the sand" whatever that means.

He's folding.

It's probably in reference to Obama's "Red Line" in regards to Syria. After Boehner folds he will probably try to spin it into "Obama almost brought us to ruin but I saved us".

Won't work.

 

[Ecotic]

Obama to speak at 2 p.m.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Obama to speak at 2 p.m.

" ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻ Fuck this shit. I'm out. Joe, you're in charge"

 

[Riki]

Obama to speak at 2 p.m.

"America, I have just two words to say to Boehner and the Tea Party: Fuck off."

 

[Penguin]

This was interesting to read/see

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ng-their-summaries-of-the-call-are-different/

 

[Blader]

" ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻ Fuck this shit. I'm out. Joe, you're in charge"

speaking of which, where in the hell is Biden? He hasn't been seen or heard from at all during this whole thing - which is especially odd given how instrumental he was during the fiscal cliff talks.

Granted, there's nothing for the White House to negotiate here, but still seems strange that he's been totally absent.

 

[Slayer-33]

"America, I have just two words to say to Boehner and the Tea Party: Fuck off."

I'm fucking sick of the repubs in power. Treasonous sore losers.

 

[Ecotic]

speaking of which, where in the hell is Biden? He hasn't been seen or heard from at all during this whole thing - which is especially odd given how instrumental he was during the fiscal cliff talks.

Granted, there's nothing for the White House to negotiate here, but still seems strange that he's been totally absent.

Harry Reid has specifically requested Biden stay out of this, as politico has reported.
Link

 

[-COOLIO-]

I take it you don't agree.
Think of it like this.
Obama is the captain of a ship out at sea. For whatever reason, a portion of the crew has decided to mutiny. IMO, he has 4 options:
1. Jump off the ship.
2. Let the crew fight each other while remaining locked up in the bridge.
3. Join the crew in battle.
4. Negotiate with the portion of the crew that is throwing a mutiny.

#1 isn't really even an option. It's suicidal. #2 leaves a heavily damaged crew and ship and possibly no way to return. It also makes him look like a coward. #3 really has more risk than reward. He's only one extra man in battle. #4 is his best option to avoid losing the ship at sea. Does it make him weak? I don't think so.
Now, it all depends on what the crew wants, doesn't it? Asking that he turn the ship around and delay the voyage for a short time doesn't sound unreasonable to me, seeing that the captain hasn't prepared the crew well enough and has only a vague idea of where the ship is sailing.

in other words, negotiate with terrorists.