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[fatgamecat]

PS4 is launching at the same time, with significantly more power, for $100 less, and more first party support.

XB1 has kinect, hdmi in, NFL deals, and titanfall (for now at least).

XB1 is following in the footsteps of other recent MS hardware launches, namely their phones and tablets. More expensive than the competition while being less powerful, features that don't interest the market much, and less software support.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

One variable we haven't been discussing much is the internal struggles MS is going through at the moment. Not saying there will be a negative effect but this is a huge unknown at the moment. The pressure from the investors could lead to some poor decisions from MS regarding the Xbox.

Edit: To be more specific by poor decisions I mean decisions that will make the Xbox look good in the short term but may be detrimental in the long term.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

PS4 is launching at the same time, with significantly more power, for $100 less, and more first party support.

XB1 has kinect, hdmi in, NFL deals, and titanfall (for now at least).

Yup, everyone at GAF knows that Titanfall is a timed exclusive ever since that eurogamer article.

Let's put it plainly: will PlayStation owners ever see Titanfall?

"It's definitely not out of the question," Emslie replied. "We have a huge appreciation for the fans. Coming out and showing it to everybody, we're super nervous and wanted to make sure everybody loved it. We love all our fans, whatever console they support.

"So yeah. We want to make everybody happy, but this is where we're at right now."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-12-will-titanfall-ever-come-to-playstation-respawn-and-ea-weigh-in

 

[jcm]

Did anyone care how much more advanced Xbox was over GameCube? Sales between the 2 were pretty close. Xbox did edge out the GameCube but it had very little to do with system power. Xbox Live, Halo and the better 3rd party support is what made the difference.

PS4 vs Xbox One is an even less of a difference than Xbox vs GameCube. GPUs were a generation apart, GameCube had no programmable shaders, had almost half the ram and half the bandwidth. I could go on but the difference was quite big yet no one really complained that GameCube wasn't good enough graphically during that gen, the PS2 was FAR behind, that's kind of where the Wii U will sit from a technical standpoint albeit even farther away and nowhere near the stance of the PS2 as far as support.

It's all about software and services. Let the games begin!

No one cared about the Xbox or GameCube, period. They have nothing to tell us about the behavior of a market leader, which either the Xbone or PS4 will be.

 

[StuBurns]

I think you have this reversed. If you have an easy platform and a harder platform and you can not do both concurrently then you hit the Easy platform first .

You can spend alot of time trying to get a product ready for market and you don't jeopardize the release of two products because one system has issues.

I also believe it will be a far easier port going from the PS4 to the XB1 then the reverse so if anything porting to the PS4 will save them some time porting to the XB1.

I didn't mean literally in months, I meant respective man hours. They will both have had basically the same lenght of time, or whenever the dev kits had hit anyway.

 

[Canis lupus]

Hmm, Saturn and Dreamcast cases were totally unrelated to power. Saturn for example launched with no games and they were unifinished and glitchy. Dreamcast lost Madden and Sega rep was destroyed by then with all their past mistakes.

A good example is GameCube vs Xbox because the difference in power is probably closer to what the difference is between PS4 vs Xbox One. Both systems were vastly more powerful than the PS2 but software beats anything. It didn't matter how much more powerful than the PS2 they were, software and services always win.

Did anyone care how much more advanced Xbox was over GameCube? Sales between the 2 were pretty close. Xbox did edge out the GameCube but it had very little to do with system power. Xbox Live, Halo and the better 3rd party support is what made the difference.

Gamecube had great 3rd party support.

 

[velociraptor]

What CPU did they use for the test?
Otherwise we didn't learn that much in regards to BF4 real world console performance.

Well the PS4/XBO do have the advantage of having an 8 core processor. That's far more than any PC CPU.

 

[DC R1D3R]

PS4 is launching at the same time, with significantly more power, for $100 less, and more first party support.

XB1 has kinect, hdmi in, NFL deals, and titanfall (for now at least).

XB1 is following in the footsteps of other recent MS hardware launches, namely their phones and tablets. More expensive than the competition while being less powerful, features that don't interest the market much, and less software support.

Come again homie?

 

[HORRORSHØW]

Come again homie?

He's right, considering the influx of indie support the PS4 is receiving.

 

[Manmademan]

He's right, considering the influx of indie support the PS4 is receiving.

And FTP software.

 

[Skeff]

Come again homie?

XB1:
no indie publishing yet. (all the indie games)
f2p and subscription MMO locked behind paywall (all the f2p games)
no cross platform support (FF14)

All give the PS4 an advantage of more games, not to mention the Japanese exclusives it gets "just because"

 

[Infinite Xero]

And FTP software.

And more internal studios.

 

[TheRealTalker]

And FTP software.

People don't realize how far Sony is with Free2play compared to MS not only do they have free2play titles like Blacklight, WarThunder,etc on day 1 but they have their own SOE being a big trump card with PlanetSide and eventually Everquest Next which could be huge

 

[Manmademan]

People don't realize how far Sony is with Free2play compared to MS not only do they have free2play titles like Blacklight, WarThunder,etc on day 1 but they have their own SOE being a big trump card with PlanetSide and eventually Everquest Next which could be huge

Sony also apparently doesn't care about cross platform play with online titles either, meaning you're likely to see big titles like FFXIV either only on PS4, or definitive on PS4 due to larger community.

 

[Brad Grenz]

But with the mantle API(apparently similar to the X1's and PS4'S API) there is a performance increase, so comparing using standard DirectX wont give similar results.

Yeah, it doesn't tell us very much about what the performance will actually be like in game, but it does give us a reasonable preview of the kind of performance disparity we might see between the platforms in a game like BF4.

*applause*

I wish we could have a club for the people who actually get it (maybe call it the "One Percent Club"). You are a charter member.

Judging by their commentary, a huge proportion of the people on this site cannot grasp the difference between what matters to them (and to me, incidentally) and what matters to the general populace (and, ultimately, the success or failure of a console).

I don't know, maybe it's an unfair characterization, but it seems like few people understand what drives the success of a console (and they haven't learned their lesson from the Wii vs. everyone else, the DS vs. the PSP, the PS2 vs. the Xbox, the 3DS vs. the Vita, etc.).

Except the best way for a platform to overcome a power disadvantage has historically been to have an advantage in price and time to market, which is true of every single example you give. Xbox One is at a disadvantage in those as well. It is slower, costs more, launches later, in fewer places, is harder to develop for, with an indie developer disadvantage and malingering negative word of mouth based on all their consumer hostile policies they attempted to implement. How can you suggest none of those things matter to the "general populace"?

 

[eddfromtheriver]

Of all the advantages the PS4 has, power is the most clear and obvious aside from price, but MS has done a very good job of obfuscating it.

I pity the fools who have fallen prey to their truth twisting/BS spewing schemes.

 

[Quadraphonic]

Sony also apparently doesn't care about cross platform play with online titles either, meaning you're likely to see big titles like FFXIV either only on PS4, or definitive on PS4 due to larger community.

They do care. The reason the games are separate for now is because patching is much faster on the PC versus the PS4. They haven't ruled out letting you transfer your character, though.

 

[Pain]

Software and services sell consoles, not performance.

This disparity between performance might be a hot topic of discussion, but it's almost certainly the very last thing MS are concerned about.

Wasn't HD a big selling point of PS3/360? The Wii died an early death because it didn't support HD.

On its own? No, performance won't determine the winner. Good thing PS4 has all the 3rd party games, some decent exclusives and a price advantage too.

If Microsoft wasn't concerned about the performance of their console is perceived, they wouldn't have tried so hard to change it. It looks like it worked too. Some think the PS4 is weaker and that its for "poor people". Or maybe they're just trolling....who knows.

 

[Mandoric]

They do care. The reason the games are separate for now is because patching is much faster on the PC versus the PS4. They haven't ruled out letting you transfer your character, though.

Er? 14 is same characters/servers on PC/PS3, and will be on PS4 once the client passes Square's beta. Same as 11 on the PS2. There's no transfer involved, and patches are simultaneous.

Now, if you don't have the clout and 11-year record of not fucking up that S-E does, I can see them being stricter on cert.

 

[Skeff]

They do care. The reason the games are separate for now is because patching is much faster on the PC versus the PS4. They haven't ruled out letting you transfer your character, though.

He was saying Sony don't care if you want to do that, they're fine with it.

FF14 is confirmed cross platform PS3/4/PC

 

[Iacobellis]

And FTP software.

And general first party support. PS4 will have four Sony-published titles by February.

 

[professor_t]

Yeah, it doesn't tell us very much about what the performance will actually be like in game, but it does give us a reasonable preview of the kind of performance disparity we might see between the platforms in a game like BF4.



Except the best way for a platform to overcome a power disadvantage has historically been to have an advantage in price and time to market, which is true of every single example you give. Xbox One is at a disadvantage in those as well. It is slower, costs more, launches later, in fewer places, is harder to develop for, with an indie developer disadvantage and malingering negative word of mouth based on all their consumer hostile policies they attempted to implement. How can you suggest none of those things matter to the "general populace"?

Um . . . because I never suggested that most of those things don't matter to the general populace? I don't even know where to begin in trying to communicate with some of you people.

EDIT (to be nice): I was referring purely to power, which was the chief thing referenced in the post I responded to. Power has been shown to be an almost negligible variable in each console and handheld generation (to date).

 

[TheRealTalker]

Sony also apparently doesn't care about cross platform play with online titles either, meaning you're likely to see big titles like FFXIV either only on PS4, or definitive on PS4 due to larger community.

WarThunder will also have cross play with PC it is up to the developers to support it

 

[BigJoeGrizzly]

Software and services will "win" this generation...period.

 

[frizby]

Software and services will "win" this generation...period.

I keep hearing this. I understand the subtext, but it would be nice if people just came out and said what they think...that Live is better than PSN and Xbone has better games. The former is speculative, and the latter is demonstrably false in terms of quantity and subjective based on quality.

And what does "services" even mean?

 

[phosphor112]

Come again homie?

Microsoft is pulling out the bigger exclusives at the start, but so far PS4 has less of a post launch drought.

Here is what launch window looks like:

PS4 Launch Games:

1. Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
2. Battlefield 4
3. Blacklight: Retribution
4. Call of Duty: Ghosts
5. Contrast
6. DC Universe Online
7. DiveKick
8. DriveClub
9. FIFA 14
10. Just Dance 2014
11. Killzone Shadow Fall
12. Knack
13. LEGO Marvel Super Heroes
14. Madden NFL 25
15. Minecraft
16. NBA 2K14
17. NBA Live 14
18. Need for Speed: Rivals
19. Pinball Arcade
20. The PlayRoom
21. Resogun
22. Skylanders Swap Force
23. Super Motherload
24. Switch Galaxy Ultra
25. Tiny Brains
26. Warframe
27. War Thunder
28. Watch

PS4 Launch Window:

1. Basement Crawl
2. CounterSpy
3. Daylight
4. Deep Down
5. Doki-Doki Universe
6. Flower
7. Hohokum
8. inFamous Second Son
9. Injustice: Ultimate Edition
10. Mercenary Kings
11. N++
12. Octodad: Dadliest Catch
13. Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty
14. PlanetSide 2
15. Pool Nation Extreme
16. Primal Carnage: Genesis
17. Ray's the Dead
18. The Crew
19. The Order: 1886
20. The Witness
21. Transistor
22. Wolfenstein: The New Order

Xbox One Launch Games:

1. Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
2. Battlefield 4
3. Call of Duty: Ghosts
4. Crimson Dragon
5. Dead Rising 3
6. FIFA 14
7. Fighter Within
8. Forza Motorsport 5
9. Just Dance 2014
10. Killer Instinct
11. LEGO Marvel Super Heroes
12. LocoCycle
13. Madden NFL 25
14. NBA 2K14
15. NBA Live 14
16. Need for Speed: Rivals
17. Peggle 2
18. Powerstar Golf
19. Ryse: Son of Rome
20. Skylanders: Swap Force
21. Watch Dogs
22. Zoo Tycoon
23. Zumba Fitness: World Party

Xbox One Launch Window:

1. Kinect Sports: Rivals
2. Minecraft: Xbox One Edition
3. Project Spark
4. The Crew
5. Titanfall
6. Wolfenstein: The New Order

Source is IGN. I just have it in a much nicer format.

 

[Iacobellis]

Microsoft is pulling out the bigger exclusives at the start, but so far PS4 has less of a post launch drought.

Here is what launch window looks like:

PS4 Launch Games:

1. Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
2. Battlefield 4
3. Blacklight: Retribution
4. Call of Duty: Ghosts
5. Contrast
6. DC Universe Online
7. DiveKick
8. DriveClub
9. FIFA 14
10. Just Dance 2014
11. Killzone Shadow Fall
12. Knack
13. LEGO Marvel Super Heroes
14. Madden NFL 25
15. Minecraft
16. NBA 2K14
17. NBA Live 14
18. Need for Speed: Rivals
19. Pinball Arcade
20. The PlayRoom
21. Resogun
22. Skylanders Swap Force
23. Super Motherload
24. Switch Galaxy Ultra
25. Tiny Brains
26. Warframe
27. War Thunder
28. Watch

PS4 Launch Window:

1. Basement Crawl
2. CounterSpy
3. Daylight
4. Deep Down
5. Doki-Doki Universe
6. Flower
7. Hohokum
8. inFamous Second Son
9. Mercenary Kings
10. N++
11. Octodad: Dadliest Catch
12. Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty
13. PlanetSide 2
14. Pool Nation Extreme
15. Primal Carnage: Genesis
16. Ray's the Dead
17. The Crew
18. The Order: 1886
19. The Witness
20. Transistor
21. Wolfenstein: The New Order

Xbox One Launch Games:

1. Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
2. Battlefield 4
3. Call of Duty: Ghosts
4. Crimson Dragon
5. Dead Rising 3
6. FIFA 14
7. Fighter Within
8. Forza Motorsport 5
9. Just Dance 2014
10. Killer Instinct
11. LEGO Marvel Super Heroes
12. LocoCycle
13. Madden NFL 25
14. NBA 2K14
15. NBA Live 14
16. Need for Speed: Rivals
17. Peggle 2
18. Powerstar Golf
19. Ryse: Son of Rome
20. Skylanders: Swap Force
21. Watch Dogs
22. Zoo Tycoon
23. Zumba Fitness: World Party

Xbox One Launch Window:

1. Kinect Sports: Rivals
2. Minecraft: Xbox One Edition
3. Project Spark
4. The Crew
5. Titanfall
6. Wolfenstein: The New Order

Minecraft not being on the Xbox One at launch is funny. The free Vita and gold PSone must have gotten to Notch.

 

[Skeff]

Minecraft not being on the Xbox One at launch is funny. The free Vita and gold PSone must have gotten to Notch.

Yea, but don't forget the xbox one version is exclusive to the xbox one.

EDIT: also the list is missing Injustice...

 

[Kssio_Aug]

I think that overclock and Xobx, are things that doesnt seem very safe.
I mean... seriously, X360 had a big problem! Start a next-gen with overclocked cpu's doesnt seems right!

 

[frizby]

Minecraft not being on the Xbox One at launch is funny. The free Vita and gold PSone must have gotten to Notch.

Respectfully suggest you change the long quote to something like "list of games".

 

[Shmuely Bully]

I keep hearing this. I understand the subtext, but it would be nice if people just came out and said what they think...that Live is better than PSN and Xbone has better games. The former is speculative, and the latter is demonstrably false in terms of quantity and subjective based on quality.

And what does "services" even mean?

It means nothing, or at least nothing that is actually valid. The assumption behind many of those kinds of posts is that 'Xbox on' or 'the cloud' is just so darn new and innovative that people will buy Xbox One for that. I'd suggest that what we've seen so far doesn't bear that out.

The services that people actually care about (Netflix, Hulu Plus, Twitter, Skype, etc..) will be present on both consoles and won't be locked behind an additional paywall on PS4.

 

[frizby]

I think that overclock and Xobx, are things that doesnt seem very safe.
I mean... seriously, X360 had a big problem! Start a next-gen with overclocked cpu's doesnt seems right!

Xbone has enough problems without additional FUD. It's really a very conservative upclock and well under what the chip is capable of.

 

[phosphor112]

Yea, but don't forget the xbox one version is exclusive to the xbox one.

EDIT: also the list is missing Injustice...

When is that supposed to come out?

 

[viveks86]

Microsoft is pulling out the bigger exclusives at the start, but so far PS4 has less of a post launch drought.

Here is what launch window looks like:

PS4 Launch Games:

1. Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
2. Battlefield 4
3. Blacklight: Retribution
4. Call of Duty: Ghosts
5. Contrast
6. DC Universe Online
7. DiveKick
8. DriveClub
9. FIFA 14
10. Just Dance 2014
11. Killzone Shadow Fall
12. Knack
13. LEGO Marvel Super Heroes
14. Madden NFL 25
15. Minecraft
16. NBA 2K14
17. NBA Live 14
18. Need for Speed: Rivals
19. Pinball Arcade
20. The PlayRoom
21. Resogun
22. Skylanders Swap Force
23. Super Motherload
24. Switch Galaxy Ultra
25. Tiny Brains
26. Warframe
27. War Thunder
28. Watch

PS4 Launch Window:

1. Basement Crawl
2. CounterSpy
3. Daylight
4. Deep Down
5. Doki-Doki Universe
6. Flower
7. Hohokum
8. inFamous Second Son
9. Mercenary Kings
10. N++
11. Octodad: Dadliest Catch
12. Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty
13. PlanetSide 2
14. Pool Nation Extreme
15. Primal Carnage: Genesis
16. Ray's the Dead
17. The Crew
18. The Order: 1886
19. The Witness
20. Transistor
21. Wolfenstein: The New Order

Xbox One Launch Games:

1. Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
2. Battlefield 4
3. Call of Duty: Ghosts
4. Crimson Dragon
5. Dead Rising 3
6. FIFA 14
7. Fighter Within
8. Forza Motorsport 5
9. Just Dance 2014
10. Killer Instinct
11. LEGO Marvel Super Heroes
12. LocoCycle
13. Madden NFL 25
14. NBA 2K14
15. NBA Live 14
16. Need for Speed: Rivals
17. Peggle 2
18. Powerstar Golf
19. Ryse: Son of Rome
20. Skylanders: Swap Force
21. Watch Dogs
22. Zoo Tycoon
23. Zumba Fitness: World Party

Xbox One Launch Window:

1. Kinect Sports: Rivals
2. Minecraft: Xbox One Edition
3. Project Spark
4. The Crew
5. Titanfall
6. Wolfenstein: The New Order

Current count for PS4 launch games is 30, not 28. That's excluding Injustice: Ultimate Edition, which hasn't been confirmed as a PS4 launch title (currently launch window), though it is launching on other platforms on November 12th.

Also, Xbox one currently has 24 launch titles, not 23.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PS4_games

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_One_games

I really wish someone could create a separate thread that we could all update regularly and reference for such discussions.

 

[Skeff]

When is that supposed to come out?

Nov 12th for other platforms, I'd expect Launch period, probably December, but they haven't said anything.

 

[BigJoeGrizzly]

I keep hearing this. I understand the subtext, but it would be nice if people just came out and said what they think...that Live is better than PSN and Xbone has better games. The former is speculative, and the latter is demonstrably false in terms of quantity and subjective based on quality.

And what does "services" even mean?

Or I could just say it without the perceived subtext some would assume: SOFTWARE AND SERVICES "WIN" GENERATIONS. No subtext, no suggestive rhetoric, NO BULL.

 

[frizby]

Or I could just say it without the perceived subtext some would assume: SOFTWARE AND SERVICES "WIN" GENERATIONS. No subtext, no suggestive rhetoric, NO BULL.

Your ALL CAPS and your post history suggest otherwise.

 

[BigJoeGrizzly]

Your ALL CAPS and your post history suggest otherwise.

Good rebuttal....(end sarcasm). Instead of having an actual meaningful response to an obviously true statement, you try to belittle someone based on their post history. I may not have all the experience in the world on this forum, but I have enough experience as a gamer (from NES to now) to know that most gamers don't really give a shit about power differences (if not VASTLY different). I'm sick of both sides swinging their dicks around trying to prove that their preorder is valid. You get either of these consoles because of the software and services they provide, let Digital Foundry do all the graphical nit-picking.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Um . . . because I never suggested that most of those things don't matter to the general populace? I don't even know where to begin in trying to communicate with some of you people.

EDIT (to be nice): I was referring purely to power, which was the chief thing referenced in the post I responded to. Power has been shown to be an almost negligible variable in each console and handheld generation (to date).

You said the general buying public doesn't care about a power difference and cited a bunch of examples in an attempt to imply the Xbox One can overcome that deficit. I was merely pointing out that people only ignore a power deficit if there are other factors in favor of the "weaker" platform. All things being equal, power will be a deciding factor for many. And for a system that costs more and launches later, it will be that much worse. There is no such thing as "referring purely to power" in any of your historic examples. There are always many factors at play and trying to isolate any one to make a point is disingenuous.

 

[frizby]

Good rebuttal....(end sarcasm). Instead of having an actual meaningful response to an obviously true statement, you try to belittle someone based on their post history. I may not have all the experience in the world on this forum, but I have enough experience as a gamer (from NES to now) to know that most gamers don't really give a shit about power differences (if not VASTLY different). I'm sick of both sides swinging their dicks around trying to prove that their preorder is valid. You get either of these consoles because of the software and services they provide, let Digital Foundry do all the graphical nit-picking.

You want your words taken at face value, as if you've never said anything else on the forum. I respect that desire, but to some degree, your credibility here depends on you not behaving like a console warrior and not passing your opinions off as obvious facts, and the only measure we have here is our own words. It's fine to have preferences. We all do. But you seem to go beyond having a preference and well into having an agenda.

And I'm sorry to bring up your post history, but it's just...

 

[walltowall]

It means nothing, or at least nothing that is actually valid. The assumption behind many of those kinds of posts is that 'Xbox on' or 'the cloud' is just so darn new and innovative that people will buy Xbox One for that. I'd suggest that what we've seen so far doesn't bear that out.

The services that people actually care about (Netflix, Hulu Plus, Twitter, Skype, etc..) will be present on both consoles and won't be locked behind an additional paywall on PS4.

I wouldn't discount the non gaming applications in such an off handed manner. It's more than Netflix and Skype.
It's HBO Go, it's Live TV, it's on demand from your cable provider, it's ESPN, it's universal search through voice or controller. I actually use an Xbox 360 to replace a cable box in one of the rooms in my house. It is the least intimidating component for my family to use. Voice control will be killer if understands context and I can see that Xbox fitness crap being huge.
I'm not saying MS will win or any nonsense about specs but don't blow them off because they focus on more than games. If Sony has offerings that come close then it will be a landslide, but at this point Sony hasn't shown anything as far reaching.

 

[HORRORSHØW]

I wouldn't discount the non gaming applications in such an off handed manner. It's more than Netflix and Skype.
It's HBO Go, it's Live TV, it's on demand from your cable provider, it's ESPN, it's universal search through voice or controller. I actually use an Xbox 360 to replace a cable box in one of the rooms in my house. It is the least intimidating component for my family to use. Voice control will be killer if understands context and I can see that Xbox fitness crap being huge.
I'm not saying MS will win or any nonsense about specs but don't blow them off because they focus on more than games. If Sony has offerings that come close then it will be a landslide, but at this point Sony hasn't shown anything as far reaching.

Doesn't Sony have an IPTV service planned?

 

[frizby]

I wouldn't discount the non gaming applications in such an off handed manner. It's more than Netflix and Skype.
It's HBO Go, it's Live TV, it's on demand from your cable provider, it's ESPN, it's universal search through voice or controller. I actually use an Xbox 360 to replace a cable box in one of the rooms in my house. It is the least intimidating component for my family to use. Voice control will be killer if understands context and I can see that Xbox fitness crap being huge.
I'm not saying MS will win or any nonsense about specs but don't blow them off because they focus on more than games. If Sony has offerings that come close then it will be a landslide, but at this point Sony hasn't shown anything as far reaching.

This is a perfectly valid point of view and a fairly convincing argument.

Maybe we're all underestimating how much people want some of these things. I think MS is largely trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist in a way that is less and less relevant as people migrate away from live TV, but who knows. Maybe people are looking for a Siri for their living room.

 

[lumzi23]

PS3 exclusives make the Xbox 360 look like Xbox 1.5

Halo 4 would like a word with you son.

 

[Skeff]

I wouldn't discount the non gaming applications in such an off handed manner. It's more than Netflix and Skype.
It's HBO Go, it's Live TV, it's on demand from your cable provider, it's ESPN, it's universal search through voice or controller. I actually use an Xbox 360 to replace a cable box in one of the rooms in my house. It is the least intimidating component for my family to use. Voice control will be killer if understands context and I can see that Xbox fitness crap being huge.
I'm not saying MS will win or any nonsense about specs but don't blow them off because they focus on more than games. If Sony has offerings that come close then it will be a landslide, but at this point Sony hasn't shown anything as far reaching.

I agree with your point, but it's difficult to have these in all of the different regions. The larger ones that are available in lots of regions are also the ones that are so large they simply have to be on both platforms, like netflix.

Also I believe the XBLG requirement for these will be an important factor and cannot be something that can be ignored, If we were to discuss the cases in which things like the xbox fitness will be important(not many IMO as it requires a second sub on top of gold after 12 months) then, you would have to consider that those same people who are interested in xbox fitness, may not be online gamers, the Wii Fit/ wii sports crowd don't really play online all that much, so $60 a year would be a significant WTF moment.

I think Microsoft certainly needs to pursue these avenues and do everything they can to get these customers into their ecosystem, but I think that Paywall is going to be a problem, especially considering that it is not an easy job to provide worldwide app's due to region differences.

We won't know for at least 4 years though, as these people do not generally buy $499 machines.

EDIT: to clarify they don't buy $399 machines either.

 

[travisbickle]

Not long to go before we see the first cracks of difference. Should we expect previews of full games soon?

 

[Skeff]

Not long to go before we see the first cracks of difference. Should we expect previews of full games soon?

I think maybe around 10th November we might get our first comparison, depends on review embargo dates though, so maybe a cross gen game, like COD or ACIV, should be fun.

 

[Nafai1123]

Or I could just say it without the perceived subtext some would assume: SOFTWARE AND SERVICES "WIN" GENERATIONS. No subtext, no suggestive rhetoric, NO BULL.

Yeah, the Wii software and services really won everyone over this gen...oh wait.

The fact is, a console generation has NEVER been determined by software or services (unless your definition of software is games). Now, I'm not saying this generation won't be the first case, but looking at past history it's just not true. There are much cheaper alternatives if people are looking solely for services.

I am very interested to see how Microsofts strategy of enhancing your existing TV experience compares to Sony's possible IPTV solutions. If Sony can pull it off and get enough support (which will be extremely challenging) I think they will arguably have the more forward thinking and possibly successful solution.

At this point it's anyone's game, but Sony is starting out with the advantage when it comes to price/power/public perception.

 

[walltowall]

This is a perfectly valid point of view and a fairly convincing argument.

Maybe we're all underestimating how much people want some of these things. I think MS is largely trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist in a way that is less and less relevant as people migrate away from live TV, but who knows. Maybe people are looking for a Siri for their living room.

People say that live TV doesn't matter and to an extent I agree but sports and shows like Breaking bad make twitter explode so there is obviously an audience. Discoverability is the key here when it comes to content and voice search is a game changer, when my son asks Xbox to find Transformers he's presented with results from Netflix, Amazon prime, games, recent showings on demand, etc. He picks what he likes and enjoys it right then and there no extra menus, no moving in and out of apps. Believe me these things impact the overall experience.

 

[walltowall]

I agree with your point, but it's difficult to have these in all of the different regions. The larger ones that are available in lots of regions are also the ones that are so large they simply have to be on both platforms, like netflix.

Also I believe the XBLG requirement for these will be an important factor and cannot be something that can be ignored, If we were to discuss the cases in which things like the xbox fitness will be important(not many IMO as it requires a second sub on top of gold after 12 months) then, you would have to consider that those same people who are interested in xbox fitness, may not be online gamers, the Wii Fit/ wii sports crowd don't really play online all that much, so $60 a year would be a significant WTF moment.

I think Microsoft certainly needs to pursue these avenues and do everything they can to get these customers into their ecosystem, but I think that Paywall is going to be a problem, especially considering that it is not an easy job to provide worldwide app's due to region differences.

We won't know for at least 4 years though, as these people do not generally buy $499 machines.

EDIT: to clarify they don't buy $399 machines either.

The paywall is what prevented me from replacing all of my cable boxes save for the main one. I just couldn't justify it but with one gold sub now covering all devices in the home it changes the landscape for me. I'm not getting multiple Xbox one units but I may add another 360 at $99.

If the fitness app is compelling, it will be a hit, because gyms are expensive and those celebrity programs aren't cheap either. No one would blink at $10 a month if it's good.

I agree that regionally apps are an issue and that's a problem faced by everyone,Sony included.

Lastly. The gamer in me looks at a $399 box that's more powerful for games and will buy it in a second. The family man in me looks at the $499 box that the whole family can use and the choice becomes a little murkier.
So I'll buy both knowing full well that I may be the only one in the house using the PS4 just like this current gen.