walltowall
Member
Grimløck;85739296 said:
It's been a feature checked for some time now - they even have a DVR - but I don't think it's anything outside of Japan.
EDGE: "Power struggle: the real differences between PS4 and Xbox One performance"
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It's been a feature checked for some time now - they even have a DVR - but I don't think it's anything outside of Japan.
We veered off topic a bit there...
If the rebuttal in a tech thread is that tech doesn't matter, only services matter, even if that's a valid point, it's beside the point. It's a distraction at best, and as an argument, it's even less valid than the cloud or balance or the magic sound chip.
If the rebuttal in a tech thread is that tech doesn't matter, only services matter, even if that's a valid point, it's beside the point. It's a distraction at best, and as an argument, it's even less valid than the cloud or balance or the magic sound chip.
walltowall
Member
You're right that it doesn't belong in a spec thread.
The power does matter and the PS4 has it in spades. I'm off to go find a services and user experience thread........wait....there is none?....damn....can somebody make one
Edit: Just to clarify, I did not say that only services matter. I was just gave you a real use case for why they do. And the tech does enable the services and is part of the platform/eco system that we buy into. The specs are undeniable and at this point inarguable and I take it that is the point you were trying to make.
HORRORSHØW
Member
I'm pretty certain Sony has a deal with Viacom (parent company of Comedy Central, MTV, Nickelodeon, et al.) in place, but I'm not sure how influential their programming is in Japan.
TheRealTalker
Banned
They basically sponsor so many animes it's ridiculous that and Sony Music owns a majority of the songs used in anime openingsGrimløck;85743376 said:
HORRORSHØW
Member
Definitely. I was just trying to demonstrate walltowall's naivete when he suggested that "Sony hasn't shown anything as far reaching" in terms of services outside of gaming.
One gold sub doesn't cover all units in the home. It covers 1 XBO and 1 360 as far as being signed in concurrently and only XBO has gold for all account on it 360 still has that limitation.
The DVR actually works in Europe as well as far as I know.
LittleJohnny
Banned
The point I was trying to make, relevant to the topic is that the difference between GameCube and Xbox was actually greater than the difference between PS4 and Xbone, yet people are making it sound like the power difference is massive. People saw GameCube as a worthy contender vs Xbox and the GCN pumped out some great games that generation. I believe the same thing will happen now, Wii U will be far behind while PS4 and Xbox One fight in the big leagues.
All of those are fair points, but the perceived power difference still is a huge issue. Even if it doesn't manifest itself in games (which is highly unlikely and most likely impossible) people still want the most powerful system. The story of PS4 being more powerful than the Xbone has breached into the casuals and general public. A lot of people know about it. That perceived power difference helped the PS2 immensely with the marketing of the "Emotion Engine" and stuff like that.
While it's not the only piece of the puzzle, it's certainly a big one and meaningful one to warrant large discussions both here and on any forum on the internet.
Please describe what methodology you're using to measure, because the difference between PS4 and Xbone is about 25 Xboxes (in GFLOPS).
Except that architecture notwithstanding the power difference between the Wii U and the Xbone isn't that much greater than the power difference between Xbone and PS4, so I'm not sure where the "big leagues" start and end.
walltowall
Member
I'll have to look into that. I took it to mean that your gamer tag could only be logged into one 360 and one XB1 simultaneously but you could have other gamer tags logged on to other machines in the home. Ahhh first world problems.
BigJoeGrizzly
Neo Member
You want your words taken at face value, as if you've never said anything else on the forum. I respect that desire, but to some degree, your credibility here depends on you not behaving like a console warrior and not passing your opinions off as obvious facts, and the only measure we have here is our own words. It's fine to have preferences. We all do. But you seem to go beyond having a preference and well into having an agenda.
And I'm sorry to bring up your post history, but it's just...
That's how this forum works all of a sudden? You have a valid opinion that doesn't necessarily jive with the general majority, and you're called a "console warrior?" I admire Microsoft's ambition, and I'm not going to hide that fact. Sure, the TV integration seems rather backwards-thinking to me, but I think they're doing more to take risks to try to move certain tech forward (whether it works or not is still up for discussion now and into the future).
Just because I admire one console or company more over the other doesn't make me a "console warrior." That would only be the case if I went out of my way to constantly criticize just about everything the competitor was saying or attempting to do. In all honesty, I don't know why this topic is still open. What more is there to discuss? The PS4 is objectively more powerful, everyone understands that. How that extra horsepower translates into games (better looking, better performing?) is still up for debate I suppose, but until we see games that provide those clear benefits we're just gonna be talking in circles swinging our dicks around.
Sword Of Doom
Member
When you're always on the defensive like MS has been since E3, every little thing matters. In this case power matters. If you want to see what matters and what doesn't just look at how both Sony and MS are behaving.
Well the power gap is pretty massive, The Xbox one isn't much closer to the PS4 than it is to the Wii U. Though I understand your point a lot more clearly now.
Not really .. every ASIC has it's own designed target clocks. Just because desktop GPUs hit 1GHz doesnt mean it applies here, I'd suggest you look at the GPU clocks for AMD's APUs ..
BigJoeGrizzly
Neo Member
Wii had some of the best collection of unique exclusive games of any of the current-gen consoles. Are games not considered "software" anymore? It also had an ambitious tech offering that was new and different from what the competition was doing. What caused Wii to taper off was the lack of services to make up for the waning interest in their once novel tech by the casual audience. It didn't help that both Microsoft and Sony eventually jumped on the motion control bandwagon, thus further diluting the once unique Wii feature that made it so popular in the beginning.
Fair enough. Just looked like a FUD post.
Edit: I subscribe to the idea the MS is being conservative with temps after RROD, and I also think there are enough valid concerns about Xbone tech that we don't need to resort to "it's unsafe" as a criticism. For now, I'm willing to take the engineers at their word on temperature management.
deputyspade
Member
All that "power of the cloud" and "innovative" stuff that all Microsoft talking heads, like Major Nelson, are spouting out is all PR FUD drivel. The commercials they are airing are displaying the same gimmicky crap that they honestly believe will sell consoles. History has shown us that brand loyalty only goes so far, and gimmicks quickly wear off.
viveks86
Member
Are you sure about that? What Wii lacked was a dedicated audience that sustained interest in motion gaming. The novelty wore off and people moved on to other things, including Nintendo. End of story. Services are an added bonus. They can't sustain a dying game console.
deputyspade
Member
Sony and Nintendo have moved on from motion gaming, but not everybody has.
Yes, that's quite unfortunate that "not everyone has" moved on from motion gaming. I think they will learn it was just a fad when their sales are slow after launch, then they will offer a kinectless sku to increase their install base. The gaming world will then be much better off.
LittleJohnny
Banned
What the heck? I hope you're not being serious. Wii U = current Gen +. XBO and PS4 are true next Gen, albeit the PS4 is a bit more powerful.
PS3≤360 < Wii U <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<XBO <<PS4<<<<<<<<<<<<PC
If you think the difference between PS4 and Xbox One is the same magnitud as XBO vs Wii U, then I think I've made my point about the false perception.
Check igns ama i believe they talk about it there. They said each account could be logged onto only one 360 and one xbo at the same time. However on xbo as long as the primary account has gold all accounts have most of the gold benefits.
People thinking the bolded is true is why Microsoft is making such a big fuss over this power stuff. It's ridiculous that anyone would think this.
killatopak
Member
1st part I can agree with. The second part? Tell that to all these MS spec talk downplaying the PS4 and promoting their own regardless of what is true and what are not.
Sony claims the ps4 is 10X as powerful as the ps3. If flops is what we are going off of, then whats the difference in flops between the ps4 and ps3?
Stop trolling bro. Unless you have facts to back it up.
killatopak
Member
I agree.
Let's just hope DF does a very fair comparison. It'll be detrimental to them if they have skewed preference over the other console.
killatopak
Member
Grimløck;85739296 said:
Yes it does.
I'm not the one trolling 'bro'. He seriously thinks the gap between the Wii U and Xbone is bigger than the consoles and PC.
Let me think about that again ..
I recognize some of those things as words, yet I'm still not certain it is English.
Then you should have marked all the less than signs to the right of the ps4 as well.I'm not the one trolling 'bro'. He seriously thinks the gap between the Wii U and Xbone is bigger than the consoles and PC.
Let me think about that again ..
njean777
Member
From seeing recent articles from them I expect them to be bias for MS to be honest, they will most likely downplay the differences between the two consoles.
I'm not in a mood to "fix" his post.
XBOX Fans "Power Perception" time line:
Orbis/Durango days:
POWAH is everything, Sony have no money, Durango will be 50% stronger than any PC gpu ever created.
Feb 20th (PS4 revealed):
Only 1.84TF GPU? weakass specs, this thing is already outdated, MS has "DUAL APUs" with 7990. Sony is doomed, PS4 compete with WiiU, wait for May 21st were MS will show their hands and bury Sony's weakass console....etc.
May 21st (X1 epic reveal) ;p
1.23 TF?!, Clouds will be 40x the power of X360, Cloudz are only available for X1. there is no gap, clouds is more than enough for X1...also MS didn't show their SECRET SAUCE "dGPU" with 2.5 TF. power is on the green side.....etc.
MS upclock the CPU/GPU:
See!! MS unlocked some of the power, Gap disappeared now, PS4 has no eSRAM with tons of bandwidth. later MS will unleash the "dGPU"
MS start "BALANCE" comedy:
12CUs are the magic number anything above is a waste, PS4 is unbalanced, 12>18. and we still have hidden "dGPU" with 2.5TF. Xbone is POWER!
MS confirmed "no dGPU" on X1:
Huh? it doesn't matter 50% is nothing, nobody can tell the difference at all, 900p and 1080p is basically the same to the human eye, also " Low common denominator" , Real world is different than paper specs.
Multiple devs confirming that PS4 is really stronger than X1:
They are no name devs. Paid by Sony!
Ryse/KI reduced initial 1080p resolutions to 900p/720p respectively:
but....but...Power doesn't matter, look at PS2....I paid for services.... most powerful never wins...etc.
Notice how the reaction changed from "It's all about power" to "there is no difference" to " power doesn't matter at all"
Touting services as a big thing now is kinda silly knowing that PS4 is offering the same if not more services. just accept reality. if you enjoy Xbox then good for you, go buy one immediately, but do not ever argue facts and numbers.
Orbis/Durango days:
POWAH is everything, Sony have no money, Durango will be 50% stronger than any PC gpu ever created.
Feb 20th (PS4 revealed):
Only 1.84TF GPU? weakass specs, this thing is already outdated, MS has "DUAL APUs" with 7990. Sony is doomed, PS4 compete with WiiU, wait for May 21st were MS will show their hands and bury Sony's weakass console....etc.
May 21st (X1 epic reveal) ;p
1.23 TF?!, Clouds will be 40x the power of X360, Cloudz are only available for X1. there is no gap, clouds is more than enough for X1...also MS didn't show their SECRET SAUCE "dGPU" with 2.5 TF. power is on the green side.....etc.
MS upclock the CPU/GPU:
See!! MS unlocked some of the power, Gap disappeared now, PS4 has no eSRAM with tons of bandwidth. later MS will unleash the "dGPU"
MS start "BALANCE" comedy:
12CUs are the magic number anything above is a waste, PS4 is unbalanced, 12>18. and we still have hidden "dGPU" with 2.5TF. Xbone is POWER!
MS confirmed "no dGPU" on X1:
Huh? it doesn't matter 50% is nothing, nobody can tell the difference at all, 900p and 1080p is basically the same to the human eye, also " Low common denominator" , Real world is different than paper specs.
Multiple devs confirming that PS4 is really stronger than X1:
They are no name devs. Paid by Sony!
Ryse/KI reduced initial 1080p resolutions to 900p/720p respectively:
but....but...Power doesn't matter, look at PS2....I paid for services.... most powerful never wins...etc.
Notice how the reaction changed from "It's all about power" to "there is no difference" to " power doesn't matter at all"
Touting services as a big thing now is kinda silly knowing that PS4 is offering the same if not more services. just accept reality. if you enjoy Xbox then good for you, go buy one immediately, but do not ever argue facts and numbers.
viveks86
Member
According to the bolded part, you are claiming that the difference between XBO and Wii U is 9.5 times the difference between XBO and PS4. Care to share any evidence to corroborate it?
Also, are you referring to the average gamer's PC, a $2000 monster rig, or a PC from the future sent back in time to kill the PS4 so that the PS5 is never born?
"PC" could mean anything, and all comparisons are meaningless unless you compare devices that cost about the same.
You don't get the point. all your original post highlights is vast difference between the Wii U and Xbox One. I don't know how anyone is supposed to know you were really talking about the PC vs. Next gen consoles.
HORRORSHØW
Member
Hilarious 'cause it's true.
I gave you an example but the whole thing is off. Just read vivek's post above.
Ryse was always running at 900p and looks significantly better since reveal. Killer Instinct has always been running at 720p and looks significantly better than it did at launch. There was no downgrade.
not touching your other arguments, just pointing some things out.
What the hell are you talking about. I don't care what times sony says. I posted factual number comparing gpu of 360 , xb1 and ps4.
The difference between 360 to xb1 and then compare that number to difference between xb1 and ps4. Now imagine the same but exchange 360 to wiiu
Do less than signs have a specific number or value attached to them? I saw his overuse of less than signs as a way to say that in therms of specs, the Wii U and Xbox One are a generation apart.
polyh3dron
Banned
Ryse may have always had a 900p frame buffer but we were led to believe that it was running at 1080p initially.
Oh and I love how pre-PS4 introduction it was pretty well known what RAM was and did but then as soon as 8GB GDDR5 RAM was announced all of a sudden RAM was some mysterious thing that no mortal mind could grasp and it was the equivalent of Blast Processing in the Genesis.
Oh and I love how pre-PS4 introduction it was pretty well known what RAM was and did but then as soon as 8GB GDDR5 RAM was announced all of a sudden RAM was some mysterious thing that no mortal mind could grasp and it was the equivalent of Blast Processing in the Genesis.
pretty much everything i wantred to say in one lovely post.
BigJoeGrizzly
Neo Member
Didn't Digital Foundry just do a comparison of the PS3 and 360 versions of the BF4 beta and found the PS3 version to be overall superior? I think people are going too far believing Digital Foundry is all of a sudden biased towards the Xbox brand. Microsoft has simply been willing to disclose more info lately (much of it tech related), which is right up DF's alley. I'm sure if Sony recently came out with more details or updates about their tech, we'd see the same coverage given to them.
We can only look at the TFlop count of the GPU's and ignore the ESRAM, the move engines, the huge increase in RAM, and all the other significant improvements in the GPU architecture when comparing next gen to this gen. We will get a completely useless comparison, but we can do it I guess.
Is there a power difference between the ps4 and the xb1? Yeah, about 50%. But don't try to claim that the power difference between the xb1 and ps4 is anywhere close to the difference between the 360 and the xb1.
Basically, your post makes no sense as that comparison tells us absolutely nothing worth knowing.