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[Famassu]

I don't know if Killzone and Infamous will have any new, unique features, I haven't seen any.

I'd say Killzone finally opening up its gameplay from a pipe-run FPS into one that offers bigger playgrounds where you can choose your own approach is a pretty big upgrade that probably couldn't quite happen with PS3 level hardware (at least with the level of visual fidelity they were going for). And it's still the best looking next-gen game atm.

And inFamous is a massive leap over the two other games with seemingly much more destruction added into environment. inFamous 1 & 2 didn't really look that great in comparison to games like Uncharted 2 & 3 and God of War III, but Second Son is really a big showcase for PS4 tech.

 

[geordiemp]

You pretty much confirmed you have no interest in performance numbers. Though I'm all for freedom of expression, you might want to check the title of this thread again before peddling weapons for the console war.

How do you know I have no interest in performance numbers, do not put words into peoples quotes they did not say.

The Xbox one is estimated at 1.34 - 10 % overhead for Kinect / Other OS. I used the words whatever it is as sarcasm at the cloudy image painted by MS in the 3 Eurogamer articles

What do you think the Xbox one performance GPU is for games ?

 

[Tabular]

You pretty much confirmed you have no interest in performance numbers. Though I'm all for freedom of expression, you might want to check the title of this thread again before peddling weapons for the console war.

I can't figure out what Geordie said wrong. Aren't those the gpu resources available to devs?

 

[ChryZ]

How is it possible that this thread is still going?

 

[viveks86]

How do you know I have no interest in performance numbers, do not put words into peoples quotes they did not say.

The Xbox one is estimated at 1.34 - 10 % overhead for Kinect / Other OS.

What do you think the Xbox one performance GPU is for games ?

Do you know what the PS4 overhead is? No? It wouldn't be as significant, but how about not reducing the xbox number till we can make an apples-apples comparison?

Also, the rest of your post had nothing to do with performance, hence my comment that you didn't seem too keen on contributing to the point of this thread.

 

[Tabular]

Do you know what the PS4 overhead is? No? It wouldn't be as significant, but how about not reducing the xbox number till we can make an apples-apples comparison?

Also, the rest of your post had nothing to do with performance, hence my comment that you didn't seem too keen on contributing to the point of this thread.

This has already been discussed. The ps4 doesn't have the features that need gpu resources for UI usage during gameplay. He said 1.18 or whatever it is.

 

[viveks86]

This has already been discussed. The ps4 doesn't have the features that need gpu resources for UI usage during gameplay. He said 1.18 or whatever it is.

Come on man. That is pure speculation. We haven't even seen all the PS4 features and you have decided PS4 has no features that would use GPU? Also, I never said he is wrong. I just said he didn't sound like he was interested in arguing about the numbers, but rather about how one would fail in the market and the other would succeed. That is going off topic.

 

[FrunkQ]

PS3&#8804;360 < Wii U <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<XBO <<PS4<<<<<<<<<<<<PC
.

Let's assume your rather simplistic view is true - which it isn't! Eg: late gen games suggest PS3 & 360 should be reversed. Gap between XBOX and Wii U is a bit large , etc, etc

But for arguments sake - lets not change it. The problem is you should have a parallel line like this:
PC<<PC<<PC<<PC<<PC<<PC<<PC<<PC<<PC<<PC<<PC<<PC<<PC<<PC<<PC
PC<<<<<PS3&#8804;360 < Wii U <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<XBO <<PS4<<<<<<<<<<<<PC

As a developer which PC exactly are you developing for? Yeah higher res and higher frame rate on the Über rigs, but the gameplay is limited by your lowest common denominator, hence why consoles tend to control the gen.

 

[Tabular]

We don't know the PS4 GPU overhead. It would most likely not be 10%, but we don't know what they are. Better not to jump to conclusions until we know those numbers.

But what he suggested is more likely to be closer than what your suggesting. Ignoring the 10% reserved is not accurate. There was a good estimation in an earlier page calculating the possibilities. But a likely scenario is <1%.

So you edited your post instead of replying to this one? I'll take that as a concession.

Come on man. That is pure speculation. We haven't even seen all the PS4 features and you have decided PS4 has no features that would use GPU?

I think we've seen that they (Sony) don't have snap and always active camera functions - yes. At this point it's arguable that the PS4 will have almost no GPU usage tied to those types of features. Like I said, trying to discredit Georgie for quoting the real world GPU usage and then suggesting a completely unrealistic comparison is disingenuous.

 

[viveks86]

But what he suggested is more likely to be closer than what your suggesting. Ignoring the 10% reserved is not accurate. There was a good estimation in an earlier page calculating the possibilities. But a likely scenario is <1%.

I'm not suggesting anything! If we start talking about what exactly the developers can utilize for graphics alone, then we go back into the topic about how the PS4 intentionally has more ALUs that are better utilized for GPGPU than graphics. It gets to the point where all of us are speculating. When I talk numbers, I need cold hard facts. I don't have the exact figures for one of them. Until then I'm asking people to keep the playing field even and fair. But if that doesn't matter and the incomplete picture fits your narrative, then I'd rather stay out of that debate. The reason I called him out was because of the intent behind his post. It had nothing to do with performance. It read like flame bait, which invariably derails a thread.

 

[geordiemp]

I read all the Eurogamer articles and just about every other source on the subject.

MS never said their GPU performance, but we know from interviews with MS its 12 CU, we know the clock, 768 shaders, and MS said they reserved 10 % for Kinect and other OS for snapping and multitasking on the same screen.

The long interview with RLBetter said they may claw back some of that 10 % going forward (but did not state any was clawed back yet).

So its 1.18 and may improve a little in future unconfirmed. And so Ps4 is 1.84 stated by Sony upfront, no hiding.

So my argument was why pay more for a 1.18 console vs a 1.84 console that has the same CPU and GPU tech, but Ps4 also has faster memory and bandwidth.

The arguments on this thread are what about the services and features, so my point was living in UK that we wont get any of them anyway, its USA only at the moment. At least we are tier 1...

Think about all the counties that are tier 2 and Xbox One having a bigger price and USA centric 'features'. Hence my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, Our 360's are favourite console (we have 2 and 1 Kinect), but MS have really butchered the Xbox One and I am disappointed in the hardware offering, and the USA centric special features is telling me that MS thinks I should just get lost. Fair enough, Ps4 x 2 pre-ordered.

 

[Kysen]

I think a lot of people are overestimating the power difference between the two consoles. In the grand scheme of things the only thing that will matter is the price and how well PSN functions compared to XBL.

I didn't realize just how important the network aspect was(I main play online on PC only) until I overheard a random conversation between 2 random dudes at work(neither look like the typical HC gamer).

The conversation basically boiled down to one of them saying he was getting a Xbone regardless because PSN was garbage. Party chat, store performance and downtime were the sticking points. No mention of better multiplat performance(last gen) or the recent E3 fumbles.

Right now the way I see it, PSN is the one big unknown that could potentially scupper Sony's tightly run ship so far. Sony can't afford to lose the UK again this gen.

 

[Tabular]

I think a lot of people are overestimating the power difference between the two consoles.

Ya! Like those got damn devs saying PS4 has 50% better performance!

 

[Bad_Boy]

why two Kysen?

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Ya! Like those got damn devs saying PS4 has 50% better performance!

Hey, I think those devs would have a LOT better idea about the power difference between the two platforms than the people on this forum or MS's BS PR people.

 

[Tabular]

Hey, I think those devs would have a LOT better idea about the power difference between the two platforms than the people on this forums or MS's BS PR people.

Did you need me to put a /S for that?

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Did you need me to put a /S for that?

I wasn't arguing with you. I caught your point.

I was just commenting.

Sorry if my post was unclear. It was poorly worded, my fault, not yours.

 

[SHADES]

I feel like im constantly being bible bashed.

It may be hard for some of you to understand, but some of us buy consoles to play games and we dont need to be reminded in every fucking thread that the PS4 is more powerful.

Whilst you have a valid point I'd suggest you read the thread title.

 

[viveks86]

Ya! Like those got damn devs saying PS4 has 50% better performance!

So you edited your post instead of replying to this one? I'll take that as a concession.

LOL. Have it your way! I concede. 1.18 vs 1.84. PS4 is now 56% faster. Devs did not know about reservation for kinect. They were wrong when they said PS4 is only 50% faster.

 

[deputyspade]

Ya! Like those got damn devs saying PS4 has 50% better performance!

Yeah, I think I would take the game devs word over Microsoft's PR damage control team. Microsoft is trying their best to sugar coat the power differences and the AMD huma thing, but it really comes across as last minute desperation and damage control. Of course they use Richard Leadbetter to spread their FUD.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

You know it really surprises me this debate is still going on honestly.

I thought we would be WELL past this argument by this point. We're a month about from the launch of these consoles and people are still contesting the specs? Seems weird.

 

[deputyspade]

You know it really surprises me this debate is still going on honestly.

I thought we would be WELL past this argument by this point. We're a month about from the launch of these consoles and people are still contesting the specs? Seems weird.

It picked up again because of Albert Pennelo and his "tech fellow", so blame him.

 

[fatgamecat]

I thought we would be WELL past this argument by this point. We're a month about from the launch of these consoles and people are still contesting the specs? Seems weird.

It won't slow down until both APUs have been delidded and thoroughly pored over. Even then it won't stop completely because "they'll give devs more GPU reserves next firmware update" or "the cloud".

 

[dragonelite]

It won't slow down until both APUs have been delidded and thoroughly pored over. Even then it won't stop completely because "they'll give devs more GPU reserves next firmware update" or "the cloud".

If people can choose out of object A and B.
Then the people that choose object A will make fun of the people that choose object B.
And the people that choose object B will make fun of the people that choose object A.

Its the same with game series, sports teams, Cars, mobile phones, operating systems hell even life partners.

 

[viveks86]

If people can choose out of object A and B.
Then the people that choose object A will make fun of the people that choose object B.
And the people that choose object B will make fun of the people that choose object A.

Its the same with game series, sports teams, Cars, mobile phones, operating systems hell even life partners.

Not true for the bolded part. Most people I know make fun of their life partners in front of others. It's become so common that it would be rude not to.

 

[StuBurns]

1st part I can agree with. The second part? Tell that to all these MS spec talk downplaying the PS4 and promoting their own regardless of what is true and what are not.

A lower concern doesn't mean of no concern whatsoever. But the perception that it's an NSA data mining box, or that it's $100 more, or MS have no sense of direction, etc, are worse.

If the PS4 was XBO spec, and vice versa, the PS4 would still be the more favored machine, I imagine.

 

[LittleJohnny]

According to the bolded part, you are claiming that the difference between XBO and Wii U is 9.5 times the difference between XBO and PS4. Care to share any evidence to corroborate it?

Also, are you referring to the average gamer's PC, a $2000 monster rig, or a PC from the future sent back in time to kill the PS4 so that the PS5 is never born?

"PC" could mean anything, and all comparisons are meaningless unless you compare devices that cost about the same.

It wasn't meant to represent "x-times difference" just a visual difference of the distance (Gap) in what they can do. The Wii U is current gen with a little more oomph. Xbox One will be as much next gen as the GameCube was next to Xbox, if not more. You guys and your teraflop measurements make Carmack cringe.

GTX 680 has 100% more teraflops than GTX 580 on paper, omg!!! it must be twice the performance Watson!!!


Then reality sets in and a real game developer speaks out:

http://imtranslator.net/translation/...h/translation/
- We are still in a process of adaptation and what I can say is what is not such a big difference in practice like that that is in the paper, but in the long term, when there are evolving the tools what we have and knowing better the Hardware, this difference will be able to increase, it depends on many factors that at this moment are not being written up.

 

[travisbickle]

Then reality sets in and a real game developer speaks out:

Wait, the other developers who said it was a big difference were not real? they were fantasy?

 

[qa_engineer]

Yeah, weird that people believed it was 1080p based on nothing more than all the native 1080p screenshots and videos they put out. One might even say we were deliberately misled on that point making the "it was 900p the whole time and no one notice!" defense ring rather hollow.

No. we assumed it was 1080p because that is a valid expectation for a next generation game. I'm pretty sure there were folks who tookna stab at pixel counting the gameplay trailers and didn't do a very good job.

 

[LittleJohnny]

Wait, the other developers who said it was a big difference were not real? they were fantasy?

And here we go!! Lets stop putting words in people's mouths. Until more devs get a crack at both systems, we'll just have to wait because some devs are saying the difference is not as big as what it appears on paper and we can't ignore either side... I give up

 

[Skeff]

No. we assumed it was 1080p because that is a valid expectation for a next generation game. I'm pretty sure there were folks who tookna stab at pixel counting the gameplay trailers and didn't do a very good job.

or because as well as releasing everything in 1080p they also said it was in full HD:

"#Ryse there is not one single downgrade compared to E3, promised! Only UPGRADES in the final push towards finalling phase! Its FULL HD XP!"

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/33197/crytek-s-ryse-still-runs-at-1600x900-ceo-calls-it-full-hd-experience/index.html

That "Full HD" 900p experience.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I literally got told by a guy at work that the Xbox One is more powerful because it is more balanced. Also Dying Light is Xbox One exclusive and the PS4 isn't launching with very many games. Nobody he knows wants a PS4 so it isn't going to sell. Lol

I love how this stuff just evolves and twists over time.

 

[beast786]

And here we go!! Lets stop putting words in people's mouths. Until more devs get a crack at both systems, we'll just have to wait because some devs are saying the difference is not as big as what it appears on paper and we can't ignore either side... I give up

Yes, I am sure these more dev will suddenly unlock the power of dGPU.

I love how your "some dev are saying" is equivalent of one person. Yet you ignore the article of the thread stating everyone the power difference being significant and as assumed 50% benchmark on paper.

 

[ElTorro]

It won't slow down until both APUs have been delidded and thoroughly pored over. Even then it won't stop completely because "they'll give devs more GPU reserves next firmware update" or "the cloud".

Nothing stops this train. Nothing.

 

[beast786]

I literally got told by a guy at work that the Xbox One is more powerful because it is more balanced. Also Dying Light is Xbox One exclusive and the PS4 isn't launching with very many games. Nobody he knows wants a PS4 so it isn't going to sell. Lol

I love how this stuff just evolves and twists over time.

Dr. Kitty Muffins works with The Kayle confirmmed

 

[avaya]

I literally got told by a guy at work that the Xbox One is more powerful because it is more balanced. Also Dying Light is Xbox One exclusive and the PS4 isn't launching with very many games. Nobody he knows wants a PS4 so it isn't going to sell. Lol

I love how this stuff just evolves and twists over time.

Somewhere Penello is making a little fist-pump.

 

[ArsenalRay]

KillZone Shadowfall will be the best looking launch game. If that does not demonstrate the power advantage of the PS4, then nothing will.

For me, it is cut and dry, the XBOX One will be able to push awesome graphics

But, the PS4 will have the upper hand. Simple as that.

 

[boredandlazy]

I literally got told by a guy at work that the Xbox One is more powerful because it is more balanced. Also Dying Light is Xbox One exclusive and the PS4 isn't launching with very many games. Nobody he knows wants a PS4 so it isn't going to sell. Lol

I love how this stuff just evolves and twists over time.

Did you laugh at him? Then turn your back and walk away?

 

[Goldmund]

KillZone Shadowfall will be the best looking launch game. If that does not demonstrate the power advantage of the PS4, then nothing will.

For me, it is cut and dry, the XBOX One will be able to push awesome graphics

Be sure to admire these graphics from a screen that, at a given distance, makes it appear to be about that size.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Dr. Kitty Muffins works with The Kayle confirmmed

I actually had a guy bet me money that Xbone would outsell PS4 worldwide this holiday season. When I asked him his reason, he said because PS4 didn't have Kinect. I chuckled.

 

[avaya]

I actually had a guy bet me money that Xbone would outsell PS4 worldwide this holiday season. When I asked him his reason, he said because PS4 didn't have Kinect. I chuckled.

You did take this bet right? How much?

 

[LittleJohnny]

Yes, I am sure these more dev will suddenly unlock the power of dGPU.

I love how your "some dev are saying" is equivalent of one person. Yet you ignore the article of the thread stating everyone the power difference being significant and as assumed 50% benchmark on paper.

What's with these "circle of jerks" comments? who's talking dGPU? More than one dev has said the difference isn't as big as specs on paper will have you believe.

On paper the GTX 680 is 100% more powerful than the GTX 580, guess that means games will be 100% better or perform 100% better? Lets see:

There's more than just teraflop figures.

 

[Skeff]

KillZone Shadowfall will be the best looking launch game. If that does not demonstrate the power advantage of the PS4, then nothing will.

For me, it is cut and dry, the XBOX One will be able to push awesome graphics

But, the PS4 will have the upper hand. Simple as that.

errrm, but the same game might be able to run at 1080p instead of 720p if it were on PS4.

the "It'll still have great looking games" is a silly argument, the PS3 and xb360 have great looking games too, but your upgrading to next gen, why not upgrade to the best looking games for cheaper?

 

[Wynnebeck]

You did take this bet right? How much?

Of course! $100.

 

[avaya]

Of course! $100.

Mate you should have gone balls out. Bet the bank on it.

 

[Skeff]

What's with these "circle of jerks" comments? who's talking dGPU? More than one dev has said the difference isn't as big as specs on paper will have you believe.

On paper the GTX 680 is 100% more powerful than the GTX 580, guess that means games will be 100% better or perform 100% better? Lets see:

There's more than just teraflop figures.

Your right, there is more than Tflops involved and in the case you posted it is likely limited by the pixel fill rate, which is about 15% higher on the 680 compared to the 580.

It's not just the more Tflops, it's also the more TMU's and ROP's with huge Tex and pixel fill rate advantages that the PS4 has.

It's ludicrous to say there is more than Tflops involved, when Tflops isn't the only difference between the GPUs

 

[Asd202]

I literally got told by a guy at work that the Xbox One is more powerful because it is more balanced. Also Dying Light is Xbox One exclusive and the PS4 isn't launching with very many games. Nobody he knows wants a PS4 so it isn't going to sell. Lol

I love how this stuff just evolves and twists over time.

Shuhei Yoshida would say " Let him dream" .

 

[KidBeta]

What's with these "circle of jerks" comments? who's talking dGPU? More than one dev has said the difference isn't as big as specs on paper will have you believe.

On paper the GTX 680 is 100% more powerful than the GTX 580, guess that means games will be 100% better or perform 100% better? Lets see:

There's more than just teraflop figures.

According to wiki.

GTX580.

37.06GP/s Pixel B/W
49.91GT/s Texture B/W
192GB/s B/W
1.5811 TFLOPS

GTX680

32.2GP/s Pixel B/W -0.15
128.8 Texture B/W +2.56
192.256GB/s B/W +0.001
3.0904 TFLOPS +1.95

See this is the problem with your comparison, sure TFLOPS aren't everything, but the PS4 (aside from the 6% slower setup rate) is faster in practically every way.

It has 50% more TMU's, 100% more ROPs, etc.

 

[boredandlazy]

What's with these "circle of jerks" comments? who's talking dGPU? More than one dev has said the difference isn't as big as specs on paper will have you believe.

On paper the GTX 680 is 100% more powerful than the GTX 580, guess that means games will be 100% better or perform 100% better? Lets see:

There's more than just teraflop figures.

Set the 580 up with DDR3 and ESRAM, then do the comparison.

 

[marvin83]

What's with these "circle of jerks" comments? who's talking dGPU? More than one dev has said the difference isn't as big as specs on paper will have you believe.

On paper the GTX 680 is 100% more powerful than the GTX 580, guess that means games will be 100% better or perform 100% better? Lets see:

There's more than just teraflop figures.

Keep fighting the good fight. Not because I think you'll win (you never will; PS4 hardware is leaps and bounds better than Xbone's), but long live this thread!

Also, there will be a very noticable difference with any competent dev team making multiplatform games and aren't moneyhatted