Sword Of Doom
Member
Read the article in the OP. Developer says "eSRAM is a pain"
EDGE: "Power struggle: the real differences between PS4 and Xbox One performance"
- Thread starter Musiol
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Read the article in the OP. Developer says "eSRAM is a pain"
Stripper13
Member
CBOAT - Can you please drop another morsel? I just can't wait, this is too juicy.
Zatoichi's Cane
Member
Dude I love you, you are quite possibly the biggest Sony fan in all of GAF
Microsoft is not calling it quits and they will sell a bunch of consoles.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
Dude I love you, you are quite possibly the biggest Sony fan in all of GAF
Microsoft is not calling it quits and they will sell a bunch of consoles.
The biggest Sony fan wouldn't have played on a 360 for most of this generation and blow about $60 in Gamertag changes.
I said IF, trying to support the other person's argument. I understand competition is good for the industry, but Xbox isn't taking Microsoft anywhere. They lost money on Xbox, lost some with 360, and will probably lose more with the Xbox One.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
'Upclock issues too'?
Is that an issue with performance or an issue with the return of RROD?
Is that an issue with performance or an issue with the return of RROD?
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Dude I love you, you are quite possibly the biggest Sony fan in all of GAF
Microsoft is not calling it quits and they will sell a bunch of consoles.
"Sega is not gonna call it quits and they will sell a bunch of Dreamcasts."
No joke, the deja vu triggered by your post was startling.
BigJoeGrizzly
Neo Member
No need to bring the PS4 into this specific debate we're having. I know the PS4 memory architecture is better and more efficient. I'm strictly talking about the Xbone's memory here, and how it compares to the previous generation. I want to know how something that is considered an evolution, and more capable than its previous iteration, make it automatically more difficult, and where people are all of a sudden getting the idea that the 360's memory architecture was difficult to develop for? I feel like some people here are just grasping for straws, just to make the Xbone's memory architecture seem THATT much more inferior to the PS4's method.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Maybe he's talking about another up clock across the board?
Edit: Before you say "no they're not stupid, they won't do that" think about all the reversals and everything that has transpired since E3. MS is dead set on short term gains no matter the cost
Zatoichi's Cane
Member
I'm not being critical, I'm just saying...
Microsoft is not Sega though.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Yeah, he could be but my question still applies. This could be just a slight hiccup or it could be something drastic like causing the consoles to overheat. I'd like to know which is was because SURELY MS won't risk releasing another console with a problem they know exists?
Goodacre0081
Member
the average consumer might also see the $100 difference as a power advantage. "higher price? it must be more powerful"
BigJoeGrizzly
Neo Member
So right now we have a "developer" saying eSRAM is a pain, but in what context? We don't know the talent and experience level of the developer, we don't know if he's new to the Xbox platform. Heck, at this point the "developer" could be a member of a small minority of developers that are having these initial issues with the memory architecture, while the majority aren't having nearly the same issues. It will take the opinion of more than just "A developer" to convince me that this is a growing concern.
Sword Of Doom
Member
It's all relative my friend. the past doesn't apply here
Another RROD coming & issues within Native 1080p? Oh, snap.
I've said it before, & I'll say it again: PS4 is better designed to run Native 1080p perfectly than Xbox One.
Wishmaster92
Member
This would be interesting. Microsoft, do it!
Zatoichi's Cane
Member
The overwhelming majority of GAF believes that xbone architecture is that much inferior, and rightfully so. So far everything we've seen and heard points to a large gap (40%+ and i'm being conservative).
Nothing wrong with you defending your taste in games but when you start to make arguments about how the gap may not be as large as it seems be, then you start raising red flags.
You're really clinging to "evolution" as a saving grace for that embedded memory. Evolution generally just produces features/functions that are suitable to task, not necessarily superior. It could be suitable for what the XBO needs to function optimally but that doesn't guarantee it's easier to work with.
spatenfloot
Member
They probably will sell a bunch of consoles, but that doesn't mean that investors won't axe it if it underperforms. They are already circling.
No one is saying that the 360 was difficult they were saying it was "more difficult than not having edram" that doesn't add much complexity.
and of course the PS4 is relevant in this, the difficulty of development is entirely based on the difficulty of development for the opposition console or PC, That's what gives us a baseline of what is easy and what is hard. It's like playing a sport, it's only as hard as whoever your playing against.
Let's look again at that quote you posted:
Ok so a new ability to texture out of esram, you know what this means? new API for it. But 32 mb is small? can you put full textures in there or are you forced to use PRT? I'd guess PRT, new API for it. So you would have to use 2 new APIs to do this, how good are these new APIs? we don't know, from the developer quote in the OP of this thread we could say "horrible"
Do you know what this means? It means the memory is now addressable. that means the developers can choose where to put things, This allows for more possibilites, HOWEVER, this means developers need to put things in the right place, now that we know they do this, let's look again at the esram and the "1024 bit bus"
It's not a 1024 bit bus, it's 4x 256 bit bus's linked on 4 pipelines each of 8mb esram, the developers need to manage these as they are now addressable to get access to the 109gb/s read speed, it seems you need to have your data in all four "8mb chunks"
Esram is not edram, the Article you quoted is MS PR and shows falsehoods even in the small snippet you quoted.
Zatoichi's Cane
Member
that would be ridiculously risky... At some point the higher ups will put a stop to this, they can't afford another RROD.
I always felt that the XB1 felt a little rushed out of the door, and the new CBOAT post pretty much nails it saying 2014 was a better plan.
Whether the hardware works as advertised I don't know, but I really doubt parts of the OS will be fully functional on release, I guess we'll see in a few weeks.
Whether the hardware works as advertised I don't know, but I really doubt parts of the OS will be fully functional on release, I guess we'll see in a few weeks.
No reasonable upclock would make any real impact on the performance gap...and if they are experimenting with it and seeing any heat issue at all, on an always on 10yr machine, and they do it...god help them.
..and it wouldn't really save the launch titles or first impressions?
CBOAT you mischievous man/woman/computer algorithm
xaosslug
Member
Sword Of Doom
Member
Lol you just wanna watch a desperate company play Russian Roulette
Wishmaster92
Member
But the system is virtually empty inside with a huge and i mean HUGE ass fan. And the power brick is once again outside. Imo, they could afford another upclock. I think what cboat is trying to tell us is that there will be another upclock.
I think the cooling inside the system can take it. The more parity between multiplatforms the better it is for everybody.
I think it's pretty obvious that when Microsoft saw this:
...they went into straight up panic mode. There are so many aspects about the system that seem rushed. Why do you think they apparently delayed their reveal event?
Of course they'll never admit it.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Sounds more like another issue to me:
'you wil se wat I meant about isues. puclocks too'
spatenfloot
Member
I don't think it would help to try any more hardware tweaks. They'd still be far behind and risk significant problems. I just don't see any upside to it.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Yeah I'd say the biggest threat to Xbox is MS itself
What's PRT?
I assume using 2 APIs instead of only one has an impact on performance because it add more processing time?
So, regarding CBOAT's comment (thanks for the new info!)
Was it about possible issues with the X1 happening NOW or maybe they are considering another upclock which might be overkill and cause trouble down the line?
Could Sony have upclocked ps4's cpu or gpu and this is a reactionary action, or are they having problems without even considering an upclock? That's a damn big case to be overheating, so it must be yield related but that was already suggested before..Another upclock wouldn't close the gap by any means and would only increase the possibility of hw failure. They really must be scrambling over there..
Anyway, CBOAT has spoken, so things must be complicated for MS. I would be very worried if I was getting one at launch, but that's just me.
Was it about possible issues with the X1 happening NOW or maybe they are considering another upclock which might be overkill and cause trouble down the line?
Could Sony have upclocked ps4's cpu or gpu and this is a reactionary action, or are they having problems without even considering an upclock? That's a damn big case to be overheating, so it must be yield related but that was already suggested before..Another upclock wouldn't close the gap by any means and would only increase the possibility of hw failure. They really must be scrambling over there..
Anyway, CBOAT has spoken, so things must be complicated for MS. I would be very worried if I was getting one at launch, but that's just me.
Night Angel
Member
Ass storm is coming.
Truthfact.
Cboat is the reason I joined Gaf. Didn't expect any more bombs this year. Wow.
Zatoichi's Cane
Member
One thing I'd love for CBOAT to answer is that can the 1080p issue be resolved down the road as developers become more proficient at developing for the xbone.
Or is this a case of HW being so limited that it's going to be extremely difficult to achieve 1080p even 1 or 2 years down the console life cycle.
I think it's pretty obvious that when Microsoft saw this:
...they went into straight up panic mode. There are so many aspects about the system that seem rushed. Why do you think they apparently delayed their reveal event?
Of course they'll never admit it.
Yea for sure. I wonder why they didn't start preparing earlier. I mean this was the longest gen ever. Maybe they just got lazy.
dolabla
Member
Sounds like it........
DangerMouse
Member
Definitely agree with this. Every time new info has come out ever since the specs reveals it's just become more and more obvious that it's better designed for them with by far less compromises needed.
Wow, did not expect to see a new strong CBOAT post when I came in to read the latest info/posts. Appreciated as always.
spatenfloot
Member
You could always wait for the second batch to see if anyone reports any major issues. Same goes for any new electronics.
njean777
Member
Should have been worried when the specs came out for it. When they are charging 100$ more then the superior competitions hardware, and when they focused on nothing but TV and sports at their initial reveal.
I'm certain in 2012 some Sony execs were quoted saying they wouldn't announce until they'd seen what MS had to offer, so maybe MS thought they had one more holiday season of selling the 360.
Only link I can find is this old one from Develop.
http://www.develop-online.net/news/sony-ps4-to-be-announced-after-next-xbox/0110985
Edit, here's a better link of Kaz Hirai stating "why go first when your competitors can look at your specifications and come up with something better?"
http://www.computerandvideogames.co...ps4-release-date-after-xbox-720-release-date/
They did start preparing earlier, at least on the software side -- Published games on the 360 all but dried up on the last two years, games like Dead Rising 3 and Ryse were moved to next gen, etc.
It just seems like on the hardware side, it simply wasn't enough.
MOTHERFUCKING CBOAT APPEARED!!!!
PRT is Partially resident Textures, it means only copying the section of the texture you wish to use. The benefit is of course you can fit a lot more useful texture data in 32mb of esram. As to using more processing time, I don't know but I don't believe the processing time is of particular concern as it is more of a size/bandwidth issue. The Reason I was talking about it is because using PRT will be beneficial due to esram, but it is a new API which seperates it from the xbox 360 edram, that the poster seemed convinced was the same as edram.
spatenfloot
Member
I think maybe development just went slower than expected and they fell behind. Everything seems to have gone well for Sony, so it just made things worse. Microsoft was just unwilling to let Sony launch first and so it all seems rushed to market. Plus they apparently did not expect the bad response to their first reveal.