Zatoichi's Cane
Member
not even 2 years down the line?
EDGE: "Power struggle: the real differences between PS4 and Xbox One performance"
- Thread starter Musiol
- Start date
not even 2 years down the line?
SEGAvangelist
Member
Hardware scaler should be a big giveaway for sub-1080p resolution being common, though.
spatenfloot
Member
He said Dead Rising 3 would be exclusive. That was good news for Xbone.
He doesn't have Sony info.
Wishmaster92
Member
Visual eyecandy ie: effects is new to me. I thought for example, watchdogs would be 1080p30fps on ps4 and 900p30fps on xbox one and that they would have the same effects. This doesn't seem to be the case.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Their priorities were elsewhere. Simple as that
I would almost expect Forza 5 to look better running a little lower res, adding a touch better AA and upscaling to 1080p. The in game frame-buffer looked a little poor in the direct feed video. Also my first reaction to CBOAT was that it was not 1080p anymore. Might just be me though as his writing style throws me off.
Oh. That sounds good enough to be an official translation to me. Thanks.
Holy shit 2 CBOAT posts in 1 night, 30+ new pages guaranteed.
I won't be surprised if multi-plats drops the resolution to match the PS4 version's eye candy or FPS. Which will be more apparent to most people though, the lower resolution for higher settings or keeping 1080p and lowering the settings to keep the FPS stable?
I won't be surprised if multi-plats drops the resolution to match the PS4 version's eye candy or FPS. Which will be more apparent to most people though, the lower resolution for higher settings or keeping 1080p and lowering the settings to keep the FPS stable?
pieatorium
Member
the upclocks comment prob refers to this?
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=74390943&postcount=782
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=74390943&postcount=782
viveks86
Member
Yes, that's what got my attention as well. I've been trying to understand the rationale for the upclock for a while. Such a last minute change could have long term repercussions that they might not have foreseen!
OK, English is not even my first language and I will try.
#Start:
I never mentioned Forza not being 1080p. They should make it. But, (it's) an exception rather than the rule though. Through this gen, never mind trying to match eye candies. Thanks to esram, 720p to 900p will be the norm no XBone.
DoomGyver
Member
#TeamCBOAT
Dropping them nukes. dnt get to comfotbl, ms alwys serching fro u
Sword Of Doom
Member
It was a hypothetical I wasn't putting words in your mouth. And if you can accept that relative to PC and the PS4, the Xbox one is more difficult then that's basically the issue. That's why you bringing up evolution is irrelevant. Because developers are not developing for the XB1 in a vacuum, they are developing alongside other platforms and if those other platforms are simpler and faster, then the XB1 will seem difficult. In this case difficulty is not a constant, it is relative.
viveks86
Member
Simple: Microsoft have built the Xbox One as an entertainment/media hub/Kinect machine first, & a gaming machine second (putting better specs on the backburner), while Sony have built the PS4 as a gaming machine first, & a media machine second (putting better specs ahead of media).
LowEndTorque
Member
He also called Titanfall when he said that MS locked up a huge 3rd party exclusive before it was announced.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
He's still not clarified exactly what he meant though. It could be the effect it has on software or the effect it has on hardware. It would be much bigger news if it was the latter.
Come on CBOAT, please just clarify that one detail!
spatenfloot
Member
I think most people simply mean it in relative terms. The PS4 is easier to develop for than Xbone, like Xbox 360 was easier to develop for than the PS3. Developers could still achieve very good results from the PS3, but most were unwilling to put in the effort. Same will likely happen next gen with the companies reversed.
Zatoichi's Cane
Member
Kind of missing the point here, these are launch titles so they could maybe be given a pass. I think what he is implying here is no 1080p for the entire life of the console, which would be huge.
If this is indeed true, then it's kind of mind blowing.
most indie games and casual stuff will probably run 1080p no problem at least
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Looking at the hardware specs, Xbox One doesn't appear to have been designed with 1080p in mind.
digoutyoursoul
Member
There is no excuse. They made sacrifices to create a box that during that May reveal, was trying to solve problems that are not there. After May, they have been chasing and chasing and with that could lose a lot of money in the long run, not just with hardware in their strongest markets but with what they saw as a key element to sustain custom, Xbox Live.
They totally forgot hardcore gamers are the early adopters and have been trying to appease ever since
Doesn't take a rocket doctor to see how similar the architectures are this time around. Still, if you got some old links talking about that without mentioning the complexity of CELL then I am all ears.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Exactly. It looks like a 720p-900p console. The three display planes and hardware scaler are there for a reason.
Zatoichi's Cane
Member
yes, I meant AAA, large budget multi plats and even some first party stuff. Of course there will be some 1080p games...
viveks86
Member
SwiftDeath
Member
So it would seem that the ESram has problems handling a game at 1080P?
I wonder if it's due to the small size 32mb?
I wonder if it's due to the small size 32mb?
Yes, that's what "suitable to task" means, like I said. Better suited to task doesn't guarantee it's superior in all aspects however, even just compared to the source from which it evolved.
If that proves to be true, let's just hope that doesn't bring ps4's versions down too.
I'm mostly worried about EA, but we'll know soon enough when BF4 is released.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
If nothing else, they appear to have gone out of their way to avoid such a scenario this time around, so I somehow doubt another RROD scenario. A healthy bit of their engineering focus seems to have been on precisely that issue. On the 1080p front, yea, I can see developers quite regularly opting for resolutions lower than 1080p to provide themselves some extra freedom to do some more with their game, and I quite honestly prefer it that way. If they can hit 1080p, and still make the game look and run great, then I'm all for it, but I don't see anything wrong with resolutions lower than 1080p. I'd take a higher level of graphics quality over a higher resolution everytime. As long as we aren't dealing with sub 720p resolutions, which I honestly don't see happening. Unless you have the performance muscle to spare, the benefit of 1080p is simply greatly outweighed by making an even more impressive looking game at lower resolutions.
Take Quantum Break as an example, no way in hell do I want Remedy to limit their vision because they somehow feel they must run at 1080p. Go as low as they need to, as long as that doesn't mean sub Anything at or above, I'm totally fine with.
No, I think some one reliable (forget who it was) dropped something along the lines that the Xbone was a "Supah-computah".
Based on that there was a window (however small it was) where it was expected that the Xbone would continue in 360's reign.
Because the situation this time is exactly the same, right?
As a former Genetics majors I'd like to point out the skeff is right. A fair amount of change is just drift without selection. Evolution doesn't have a direction, critical traits are selected for and against strongly but non critical ones can languish or vanish or become omni-present.
As for the ESRAM; it's a 'evolution' with an selective criteria of 'make it cheap', 'make it easy to shrink' and 'be okay for apps and gaming' and it seems in that order. The evolution he may be referring to is the higher bandwidth and larger amount versus the EDRAM; but it says nothing about it's relative comparison to the PS4.
Even so, you'd recall he's on the clock. That engineer, all the people from MS, Mark Cerny and all of the people from Sony have a transparent agenda. To feature their machine in the best light.
Skeff is also right, it's the relative difficulty. For the PS3 vs 360 the EDRAM was a bonus. Almost everything it offered was 'free' in comparison tot he PS3. The bar was low and the expectation for it's use low. The 360 GPU was already more capable and the architecture has less bottlenecks.
For the XB1 vs PS4 the ESRAM is not a free extra anymore. It's now required to overcome a bottle neck so more time will be spent tinkering with it to match the memory throughput of the PS4. By all accounts it's not NEARLY as hard as juggling 6 exotic mini processors that the CELL was but it is harder than the PS4 which seems more direct than current commodity PC's.
viveks86
Member
Seems a bit arbitrary doesn't it? It's like you have defined your own threshold, but you don't understand others' disappointment when their thresholds are crossed?
SwiftDeath
Member
What exactly do you think Cboat meant by this then?
It is looking more and more that it will be greater than just resolution tweaks on games
The PS4 will likely get better eyecandy as well
So XB1 versions may indeed have lower resolutions AND lower graphic fidelity
I don't think anyone knows this but people are just rampantly speculating the PS4 will be. We will just have to wait and see.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I actually think the opposite. I think it's certainly right there. It's just enough for high quality 1080p gaming, but I would still take the route where developers give themselves a bit more breathing room by lowering the resolution everytime. The PS4 looks like it has the raw performance breathing room where devs, if they even have to make such a decision as to go lower than 1080p, it will obviously be a far rarer thing than instances where Xbox One devs target lower than 1080p rendering resolutions.
That may be the reality of the situation, and I'm fine with that. I have a pretty powerful PC, and all my gaming is done at 1680x1050, and I think the new consoles are capable of a level of graphics performance now where a lower resolution doesn't exactly strike me as the end of the world. Look at the better looking 720p titles this generation. I didn't see very many complaints about those, and certainly high quality efforts on the Xbox One will easily top those, and should be almost certain to sport far better image quality.
Well, it isn't really my business what other people's requirements or thresholds are. I would never enjoy gaming if I spent the time dwelling on the perceived disappointments of others. It might seem selfish, but that's really the way it is.
Beerman462
Member
It seems pretty apparent to me that XB1 developers have been compromising since reveal. Ryse 900p DR3 30fps. The Alpha development units promised a lot more performance than final hardware is delivering and compromises were made.
Beerman462
Member
Does not compute
32mb esram is not big enough for many deferred rendering buffers.
For example Killzone shadowfall is around 47mb and BF3 on PC at 1080p was around 55mb, they are bigger than 32mb.
I don't remember the exact numbers for the buffers, but they're about right.
The PS4 does not need to struggle fit a buffer into memory as all 8gb of the PS4 memory is very high speed.
Reducing the same 55mb buffer from 1080p to 720p would likely make it lower than 32mb and fit in esram
In regards to the ability to run 1080p, I would have figured that it would be more due to a disparity between the GPUs rather than the memory configuration. Aren't there current gen games that hit 1080p with the 360's current memory setup which uses a lot of the same principles as the One?
Also, I wouldn't think that 1080p is a barrier in and of itself, developers should be able to target 1080p, I would think that the distinction is what they have to give up in the texture quality and effects that is the trade-off as to why they wouldn't hit it.
Also, I wouldn't think that 1080p is a barrier in and of itself, developers should be able to target 1080p, I would think that the distinction is what they have to give up in the texture quality and effects that is the trade-off as to why they wouldn't hit it.
Hyperbole much? I guess in screens I can see some improvements. But I've to see a title "completely shitting on" anything from either platform.
What would be your solution regarding frame buffers for 1080p games on xbox one? how would you store them? what solution would you use to the move towards deferred rendering and the difficulty of balancing larger framebuffers with the XB1's esram size?
SenjutsuSage
Banned
http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/samsung-syncmaster-2233rz/4505-3174_7-33499496.html
The better of my two pc monitor's top resolution is 1680x1050.
I don't really have a choice in the matter, but I also don't feel I'm missing very much. The games still look unbelievable at really high graphics settings.
Well, that wouldn't be too surprising if it did. The PS4 is the clearly stronger system after all. The real question is just what does less eye candy on high quality xbox one releases actually mean? I suspect that people won't be too disappointed by what 343i does with the next Halo, or what Remedy does with Quantum Break. Look at what Crytek are already doing with Ryse at launch. If that's what lower resolution and less eye candy means for the system, I don't think xbox one gamers will exactly be scraping the very bottom of the graphics barrel, do you know what I am saying?
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
PS3 is capable of delivering 1080p....just because it can, doesn't mean it was truly designed for it.
There are a number of limitations of the Xbox One hardware - ROPS, CU's, Bandwidth, that will make 1080p more difficult to achieve.
Ultimately I think we'll see more non-1080p games on Xbox One than 1080p titles. We already see that for launch titles...
Hence, I don't see how you can say it was designed for 1080p.
viveks86
Member
Eh? I'm not suggesting you need to dwell on others' disappointments. You seem to present your case repeatedly as if you expect others to be convinced. If all you care about is your own opinion and not others', then why bother repeatedly justifying your stand? All I'm trying to tell you is that people's thresholds are different. You can keep talking about your own, but it doesn't really add anything to the conversation if you aren't willing to understand how others look at it as well.
Sword Of Doom
Member
I'm guessing there are issues from up clock. Wether it's hardware or software who knows, but he didn't find it necessary to correct anyone for assuming the up clocks are causing issues.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
Pretty much, we'll see what compromises (if any) were made when gameplay for Quantum break finally surfaces.
But i... i just don't know how someone would buy an XB1 now that CBOAT has warned about a possible debacle akin to RROD... i just don't but... hey it's not my money.