There's a peak that the criticism can reach. Because the media will want to appear somewhat neutral by staying respectful in its tone.
US Federal Government Shutdown | Shutdown Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Raised
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There's a peak that the criticism can reach. Because the media will want to appear somewhat neutral by staying respectful in its tone.
"So you have this neighbor who has been making your life hell. First he tied you up with a spurious lawsuit; youre both suffering from huge legal bills. Then he threatened bodily harm to your family. Now, however, he says hes willing to compromise: Hell call off the lawsuit, which is to his advantage as well as yours. But in return you must give him your car. Oh, and hell stop threatening your family but only for a week, after which the threats will resume.
"Not much of an offer, is it? But heres the kicker: Your neighbors relatives, who have been egging him on, are furious that he didnt also demand that you kill your dog.
And now you understand the current state of budget negotiations."
- Paul Krugman
"Not much of an offer, is it? But heres the kicker: Your neighbors relatives, who have been egging him on, are furious that he didnt also demand that you kill your dog.
And now you understand the current state of budget negotiations."
- Paul Krugman
"Independents" aren't really in the middle anymore. They're largely former Republicans or Republicans who don't want the social consequences of being identified as one.
They are part of the ACA, but they can be changed with amendments to the law. In fact, the entire thing can easily be negotiated away still, since any taxes already collected from Capital Gains and Medicare payments can just be refunded in 2014, along with the individual mandate simply not being collected, but you would likely want to change tax code before the end of the year.
Does anyone know if the Republican House has even tried to make major changes to the taxation for the ACA, or did they only try to repeal it 40+ times? It is my understanding that the Republicans don't even want to change the taxes in with now, they simply want to set the budget allocated to the ACA to $0, or do they also want to just repeal all the taxes associated with the ACA?
Wouldn't surprise me if the recent madness pushed many independents into being Democrats, de facto if nothing else. Don't want to register with the party, but that's half because they're more the "only good option", half because I think it's kind of ridiculous to register with a party if you're not actively going into politics anyway.
It's been the demographic changes over the past 8 years or so. GOP has been shrinking due to Dems getting young voters nearly 2 for 1, while GOP's base literally dies off. It's why the GOP is going so crazy recently with blatantly manipulating everything/anything.
Kitschkraft
Member
Are student loans going to be affected if the debt limit isn't increased? One more semester and this is just fucking ridiculous. Respect to anyone that has already been hurt, but this particular thing will affect me personally.
Republicans only 8 points over the dems? Still far too close for me. I guess that on a national scale that's huge though?
Republicans only 8 points over the dems? Still far too close for me. I guess that on a national scale that's huge though?
That's where I'm at right now. I've historically identified with Republican stances, but at this point the social issues take a backseat to the fact that the party has been overrun by complete madmen who are actively harmful to the well-being of the country.
This is only independents.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
A lot of the "both sides are bad" comments I see online are from Conservatives who are reaching their limit with their own party.
I know a lot of people hate that meme, but take it as a step away from the GOP for a lot of people, which if you are liberal is a good thing.
I know a lot of people hate that meme, but take it as a step away from the GOP for a lot of people, which if you are liberal is a good thing.
Angry Fork
Member
I've been reading this thread for the last 5+ pages and have no clue what any of it means, which is a shame. It seems really important I just have no clue where to start.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Sounds like this is almost over. Plan is to fight sequestration after a new CR ends. Will be very interesting.
Boehner looks like an utter fool now.
Boehner looks like an utter fool now.
Now?
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Always and forever.
Despite all the anger that Americans have over this, for both sides in many cases, it's hilarious that Democrats are still in a better position now than Republicans were before they even started this mess.
Time to end this farce.
MasterOfPastures
Banned
I got all my papers. Now I just need to hand them in to a Social Security card center so that I start working as soon as possible.
How fast will the re-activation be? If the vote happens on wednesday or thursday, will the offices be open on friday?
How fast will the re-activation be? If the vote happens on wednesday or thursday, will the offices be open on friday?
Once the vote happens, it has to go to the President to sign. If that happens very late at night, I don't know how fast word would travel to get card centers open the next day.
Keep your eyes on www.socialsecurity.gov for news.
As long as it's not something stupid like "You have to ear X to get insured" or something...
I really need China to be the world economic superpower, as this shit wouldn't happen there. Only way that government is stopping is if they have a total revolution. As a non-American citizen, I'm tired of your backwards citizens voting in backwards politicians, dividing your country in half between the forwards and the backwards, without anyone able to unite them. I just bought a house and you're going to fuck up the world economy again. I don't need this shit America, get your act together!
I'm glad Canada is pulling back on American investments (and has been for a while) and focusing on Asia.
I'm glad Canada is pulling back on American investments (and has been for a while) and focusing on Asia.
If the US defaults the rest of the world needs to consider some sort of economic and trade action against this rouge state. I'm sorry, but your nutcase politicians bringing about the possibility of default affects our economies too and in a serious way. I don't just see this as a domestic issue.
Don't worry. The Republicans will make sure the US becomes a third world country pretty soon. You won't have to worry about us screwing you over any more.
Canada owns more US debt now than it did a year ago!
CitizenVectron
Member
Uh, you do realize that China just pegs its currency at whatever they want, right? They artificially lower its value in order to make production/exporting easier for them.
Also, it's pretty weak-minded to say that you'd tolerate an autocracy forever just because democracy right now is unstable.
If what we see happening in the US is the end game of democracy then it's past time for new forms of governance. Democracy is something I've completely lost faith in.
theprodigy
Member
I promise you the only necessary action is to remove the Tea Party and those that support them
NathanMcMahon
Banned
He doesn't understand things or the world really well apparently. He just wants his house to be okay.
Democracy itself is fine, the problem is the US doesn't have a representative democracy.
Mango Positive
Member
I'm in the same boat. It's hard for democracy to work when a significant portion of the voting population is easily manipulated. Of course, I'm not sure of an alternative that doesn't create a class system based on intelligence (which, honestly, would better than the current class system based on material wealth).
We all know that really smart people are smarter than we are. If we take away their ulterior motives by paying them well and eliminating lobbying and gifting, then theoretically, they'll do the right thing. I'm in full support of having a qualifying minimum IQ in order to hold public office. Of course, this makes me a monster. It's unfortunate that monstrous solutions would be so effective.
I completely disagree with this.
I have a fairly high IQ, but I wouldn't trust me making decisions or moving things forward.
Rewarding people based on their IQ is just as bad as rewarding people based on their social status.
Rewards should come from hard work and hard work alone.
lastplayed
Member
I'd hardly consider the US as the end game of democracy. My country's democracy works just fine thanks.
From what I read it is extremely weak now, as in you just put down a number and then it is later compared to your tax return and you receive or repay any differences. And apparently not everyone is checked later, just "selected" people, somewhere in the single digit percentage range, like a selective IRS audit. Some suggested this can cause significant cumulative fraud in the short and long term.
I don't think it is possible for the United States to not be allied with the United States... On second thought, maybe it is.
I'd do well governing the United States, and high IQ just means we process certain information faster than usual.
Although I do want to go into politics, so many broken systems to fix, I enjoy fixing things. I also love helping people, and having strategies that would beat opponents.
CitizenVectron
Member
Why do you think the current situation is the end game of democracy? It's the specific system the US has right now that is the problem, which allows extremist minorities to control the agenda due to old-fashioned supermajority rules, and 2 voting chambers of the legislature. Other styles of democracy, such as the British/Canadian Parliamentary democracy, are far more efficient and allow for faster action in times of crisis such as this. And minorities can't hold things up as much, and there is also no second elected chamber to stand in the way of the primary elected representatives. Also the executive is tied to the legislative, so you never have gridlock that way.
You sound like you are 18 and think the problems right now are new. They aren't. The extreme wing of the GOP is causing problems, but in a few years they will most likely go away, and things will return to a better balance.
Do you know what autocracy means? China is a Totalitarian nation. China is ruled by a politburo, not a single person. The party and poliburo elects a single person as president but it's the entire group that runs the show and delegates down to the rest of the party which manages each section of the country. China is a one-party communist state which is starting to lean on a fusion between socialistic ideals and capitalistic practices.
China has committed a number of atrocities among it's people or peoples within it's own idea of it's borders (not their actual borders) in the name of protecting the party that I absolutely do not agree with. They are a stable nation though, that doesn't have the same aggressive imperialistic foreign policy America has.
EDIT - Oh, and America is a limited "Representative" Democratic Republic. Not exactly the brilliant shining example of democracy. If I had my choice, I wouldn't want either America or China to be the economic superpowers.
Everyone thinks they'd do good in politics because "they think well and they have good ideas."
The problem is that these ideas will always, and without fail, piss of certain people. Doesn't matter if they're good for those people or not.
Politics aren't so easy. It's a popularity game just as much as a policy one.
I agree that smart people would probably enact some great policies, but I don't think they could win the popularity contest. And this could lead to some nasty situations.
As it stands, I think that the democracy we have is actually a good political system. We just need to have computers mandate the districts and we need to make voter suppression completely illegal.
That's exactly it, democracy relies on an educated populace and populations just aren't properly educated and informed enough to make uniformly good decisions. Like you said, electors are just manipulated by those with power and wealth and it completely subverts the process.
It's a nice idea in theory but in practice it does not work as remotely as well as anyone would hope.I think it's gone past the point of 'necessary evil', it's now just plain detrimental as far as I'm concerned.
CitizenVectron
Member
I wasn't referencing China with that, I was pointing out another system of government that is worse than democracy to show that democracy isn't that bad. Stability isn't the ultimate measure of how well a government works.
Ding ding.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
It does. Oh. Wait. I get it now.
I believe that those without the necessary qualifications are simply not in the right position to make decisions that affect everyone. That's what happens every time Joe Blow casts a vote and contributes to electing some twat that fucks everything up.
I wouldn't trust Joe 'I don't give a shit' Blow as a doctor or an engineer or a scientist, I expect him to be qualified. If he hasn't had the necessary training and education to make informed decisions then I won't trust him either as an elector.
America is halfway between a Representative Democratic Republic and a Corporatocracy
Of course same could be said about a lot of democratic states.
Anyways, didn't mean to derail with slightly off topic but I need China and EU to have more economic power than the States to balance the world's economy. I'm hoping America will be done being the sole economic superpower for the West.
Of course same could be said about a lot of democratic states.
Anyways, didn't mean to derail with slightly off topic but I need China and EU to have more economic power than the States to balance the world's economy. I'm hoping America will be done being the sole economic superpower for the West.
And a last point. Tea Party politicians, to paraphrase what George Carlin said, don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American workers, American families and American teachers; and they're put there by ordinary Americans who think they are doing the right thing.
But they're not doing the right thing. They're putting people into positions of authority who are fucking everything up; and they're doing this because they are too uneducated and ignorant enough to make intelligent, informed decisions. They are unsuitable to be electors in every way.
But they're not doing the right thing. They're putting people into positions of authority who are fucking everything up; and they're doing this because they are too uneducated and ignorant enough to make intelligent, informed decisions. They are unsuitable to be electors in every way.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Minimize the impact of manipulation by eliminating gerrymandering. No gerrymandering means the crazy can't be consolidated into districts and used to win seats.
I also think going to an instant runoff means we could have more viable parties, which ultimately discourages the use of mudslinging tactics and could get us more actual discussion of issues. Maybe I'm wrong on that though, but it seems like "lesser of four evils" doesn't really work like "lesser of two evils" does.
Of course education is the big thing. I don't know how it is elsewhere, but I live in Alabama, and we were basically taught nothing about the modern government, issues, and things like that. From K-12, we had one half semester course. The other half semester? Economics, which was also not otherwise covered. So yeah, it's no surprise to see people completely clueless here.
Edit: We also need to get rid of career politicians. Passing term limits is going to be very difficult though, especially since the Supreme Court ruled previously it can't be done on a state level.
theprodigy
Member
You're house might decline in value regardless of what the US does because of the housing bubble, and China could be in a more precarious financial position than you suspect.
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