EDGE: "Power struggle: the real differences between PS4 and Xbox One performance"

Skeff said:
Also of note recently is this from DICE:

http://www.oxm.co.uk/64205/dice-mak...n-all-platforms-would-be-the-cowards-way-out/

Apparently having the same game on all platforms would be the cowardss way out, so let's see what you can do DICE.
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So if parity on both, we should be mad?

The specs on both consoles should speak for themselves so with someone like DICE I would hope they could successfully utilize both systems well and hence use the PS4's extra power

DICE is pretty much saying in that article to expect different versions on different consoles right?

Or is this just PC vs consoles? Because that is obviously going to be very different depending on your system
 
SwiftDeath said:
So if parity on both, we should be mad?

The specs on both consoles should speak for themselves so with someone like DICE I would hope they could successfully utilize both systems well and hence use the PS4's extra power

DICE is pretty much saying in that article to expect different versions on different consoles right?

Or is this just PC vs consoles? Because that is obviously going to be very different depending on your system
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DICE said "every platform". Take from that exactly as it was stated.
 
LollipoPReapeR said:
Thanks guys. So to my understanding the only reason eDRAM can be regarded as better because it is basically automated compared to eSRAM...
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It sounds like a double edged sword, MS has promoted it's flexibility. It doesn't have to be a frame buffer, it doesn't have to be (and I don't think anyone uses it as) a cache. Flexibility comes with a development time price tag.

Like the PS3 and it's crazy Cell CPU and the 360 eDRAM; people will work out a easy best practice, techniques and probably automated tools. But that will come later so the eSRAM probably slows down the dev teams like the PS3 Cell did for PS3 launch games.

Once they get those best practice, techniques and automated tools they have something like a rough memory bandwidth parity but with lots of other limitations.
 
SwiftDeath said:
So if parity on both, we should be mad?

The specs on both consoles should speak for themselves so with someone like DICE I would hope they could successfully utilize both systems well and hence use the PS4's extra power

DICE is pretty much saying in that article to expect different versions on different consoles right?

Or is this just PC vs consoles? Because that is obviously going to be very different depending on your system
Click to expand...

I don't know why but since yesterday, it just dawned on me that all these multiplatform games are gonna be the same on both consoles. I'm not expecting developers making 5 versions of a game to sit down and optimize for any specific console. Especially if they don't really have any incentive to do so. From what people always say on Gaf, it's against their best interest to have an inferior version of a game out there.
 
Sword Of Doom said:
I don't know why but since yesterday, it just dawned on me that all these multiplatform games are gonna be the same on both consoles. I'm not expecting developers making 5 versions of a game to sit down and optimize for any specific console. Especially if they don't really have any incentive to do so. From what people always say on Gaf, it's against their best interest to have an inferior version of a game out there.
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You'll never get the same version of different machines though, what you can do is try to optimize the lesser version to try and get it close to the best version

Personally I'm holding DICE to their word and will wait on a comparison before I buy

Also by your logic the version a developer uses on the PS3 is the same they'll use on the PC which is obviously not true
 
vcc said:
It sounds like a double edged sword, MS has promoted it's flexibility. It doesn't have to be a frame buffer, it doesn't have to be (and I don't think anyone uses it as) a cache. Flexibility comes with a development time price tag.

Like the PS3 and it's crazy Cell CPU and the 360 eDRAM; people will work out a easy best practice, techniques and probably automated tools. But that will come later so the eSRAM probably slows down the dev teams like the PS3 Cell did for PS3 launch games.

Once they get those best practice, techniques and automated tools they have something like a rough memory bandwidth parity but with lots of other limitations.
Click to expand...

They'll never reach bandwidth parity, the 68GB/s is going to be the difficult bit, even putting things into esram from memory uses part of the 68GB/s.

Sword Of Doom said:
I don't know why but since yesterday, it just dawned on me that all these multiplatform games are gonna be the same on both consoles. I'm not expecting developers making 5 versions of a game to sit down and optimize for any specific console. Especially if they don't really have any incentive to do so. From what people always say on Gaf, it's against their best interest to have an inferior version of a game out there.
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If they did no optimizations you should look at the platform agnostic build rumor from e3.

CoD:DoG was coming out at 1080p@90fps on PS4 and 900p@15fps on XB1.

We obviously won't get that though.
 
SwiftDeath said:
You'll never get the same version of different machines though, what you can do is try to optimize the lesser version to try and get it close to the best version

Personally I'm holding DICE to their word and will wait on a comparison before I buy

Also by your logic the version a developer uses on the PS3 is the same they'll use on the PC which is obviously not true
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You're right I am oversimplifying. I just don't think the PS4 version will get optimized to the point where it's significantly better than the XB1 version. Will there be differences? Of course. But I expect more or less parity
 
Sword Of Doom said:
You're right I am oversimplifying. I just don't think the PS4 version will get optimized to the point where it's significantly better than the XB1 version. Will there be differences? Of course. But I expect more or less parity
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It will be more work to create parity than to have different versions.
 
Skeff said:
They'll never reach bandwidth parity, the 68GB/s is going to be the difficult bit, even putting things into esram from memory uses part of the 68GB/s.



If they did no optimizations you should look at the platform agnostic build rumor from e3.

CoD:DoG was coming out at 1080p@90fps on PS4 and 900p@15fps on XB1.

We obviously won't get that though.
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See that's what I mean though. The PS4 version is fine at that point. They'll dedicate resources to the XB1 version to bring it up to par with the PS4 version. That's what I'm trying to say.


Edit: I hope you guys are right. I've been a bit depressed to be honest
 
Sword Of Doom said:
See that's what I mean though. The PS4 version is fine at that point. They'll dedicate resources to the XB1 version to bring it up to par with the PS4 version. That's what I'm trying to say.
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That's not what they did with 360 and PS3, though. GAF was full of comparison screenshots showing terrible IQ, lower resolutions, and missing geometry and effects on PS3 versions versus the 360. Heck, the first Madden on PS3 was 30fps, while the 360 version was 60fps. There was obviously not much developer concern about parity.
 
Liabe Brave said:
That's not what they did with 360 and PS3, though. GAF was full of comparison screenshots showing terrible IQ, lower resolutions, and missing geometry and effects on PS3 versions versus the 360. Heck, the first Madden on PS3 was 30fps, while the 360 version was 60fps. There was obviously not much developer concern about parity.
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No, but they have certain targets to meet and they'll spend time trying to bring the Xbone version up to spec if the the PS4 version already meets the requirements.
 
Skeff said:
They'll never reach bandwidth parity, the 68GB/s is going to be the difficult bit, even putting things into esram from memory uses part of the 68GB/s.
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That's why I'd say a rough parity.

68GB/s DDR3 + 109Gb/s eSRAM = 177Gb/s which is roughly the same as the PS4 GDDR5 176GB/s with a tremendous amount of asterixs. The overhead would be a lot greater for the XB1 but in theory it could shuttle the same amount of data for a short period. It would waste a lot of it in bandwidth for moving data back and forth and reserving some of it to feed snap features. The useful bandwidth would be much less and there might be other bottlenecks but I found the fact they both added up to such close numbers curious. Probably the shared APU proto-type for the two was meant for GDDR5.
 
Liabe Brave said:
That's not what they did with 360 and PS3, though. GAF was full of comparison screenshots showing terrible IQ, lower resolutions, and missing geometry and effects on PS3 versions versus the 360. Heck, the first Madden on PS3 was 30fps, while the 360 version was 60fps. There was obviously not much developer concern about parity.
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Some devs care more than others(or are allowed to by their publisher overlords). If I were an XBone Bethesda fan, I might be a little worried as they obviously didn't get PS3 versions up to par. I'd probably hope that it was just due to some bias and hatred for Sony specifically and not a general reluctance to prop up a lagging system in that case.
 
Liabe Brave said:
That's not what they did with 360 and PS3, though. GAF was full of comparison screenshots showing terrible IQ, lower resolutions, and missing geometry and effects on PS3 versions versus the 360. Heck, the first Madden on PS3 was 30fps, while the 360 version was 60fps. There was obviously not much developer concern about parity.
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Yeah i remember. I'm playing Red Dead right now on PS3 and that game has serious issues.
So if developers are having a difficult time with the eSRAM on top of the power gap then games should either clearly be better on the PS4 or we can expect more delays like Watch Dogs and The Crew. We'll see how things shape up. It's going to be an interesting month
 
Leondexter said:
Off topic, but is this just a joke, or really the accepted abbreviation for Call of Duty: Ghosts?
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I think it's just me that uses that abbreviation. From the marketing material provided it seems to make more sense to be honest. (yes I know Ghosts is the name of the squad)
 
Leondexter said:
Off topic, but is this just a joke, or really the accepted abbreviation for Call of Duty: Ghosts?
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You know whats even funnier

Us - COD - DoG

Mark Rubin - we've been getting great feedback about the dog

Us - no we're making fun of you

Mark Rubin - the fans love him

Us - uh ok?
 
xiong644 said:
You know whats even funnier

Us - COD - DoG

Mark Rubin - we've been getting great feedback about the dog

Us - no we're making fun of you

Mark Rubin - the fans love him

Us - uh ok?
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Still not as bad as the "look at the fish move away, that's next gen!" tweet during a livestream, that ended up on the livestream and the presenter asked the Dev about it. I think the Dev said something along the lines of:

"uh...welll....yea, we have enough resources to do AI for fish...."

Cringe
 
Woah. So the consensus here is that if a multiplat title is delayed then its the Xbones fault. And if the PS4 version of said multiplat doesn't look any better than the Xbones then its because of parity?
 
DeltaJay said:
Woah. So the consensus here is that if a multiplat title is delayed then its the Xbones fault. And if the PS4 version of said multiplat doesn't look any better than the Xbones then its because of parity?
Click to expand...

Well...the first about delaying a multiplat because of xbone could hold true because of some of the microsoft policies, the xb360 version of rayman and the microsoft policy actually did delay the Wii U version. Though despite that I don't think many are saying that.

And regarding the second one for parity, yes. The PS4 is a much stronger console that is easier to program for. Unless a game is maxed out on both XB1 and PS4 (same res, locked framerate, same effects as PC) then both versions being the same would be for parity. You should read this thread to see why conclusively PS4 multiplats should be better than XB1s
 
Skeff said:
Still not as bad as the "look at the fish move away, that's next gen!" tweet during a livestream, that ended up on the livestream and the presenter asked the Dev about it. I think the Dev said something along the lines of:

"uh...welll....yea, we have enough resources to do AI for fish...."

Cringe
Click to expand...

AI for fish! Top that Kill Zone


DeltaJay said:
Woah. So the consensus here is that if a multiplat title is delayed then its the Xbones fault. And if the PS4 version of said multiplat doesn't look any better than the Xbones then its because of parity?
Click to expand...

No not really
 
geordiemp said:
Even if Albert knew what a 3rd party resolution was for a BF4 build say a few weeks ago, he should not say.

Imagine if he said what the resolution was, and it possibility impacted DICE pre-orders, how do you think Dice and EA would feel.

Really the blame for not knowing product details lies firmly with EA and Dice, and it may effect their pre-orders as many (like me) are waiting for reviews.
Click to expand...

I believe DICE has confirmed Xbox One version will be 720p. For PS4 they said it is currently running higher than 720p on dev kits but could not confirm what the final will be.
 
Sword Of Doom said:
I don't know why but since yesterday, it just dawned on me that all these multiplatform games are gonna be the same on both consoles. I'm not expecting developers making 5 versions of a game to sit down and optimize for any specific console. Especially if they don't really have any incentive to do so. From what people always say on Gaf, it's against their best interest to have an inferior version of a game out there.
Click to expand...

Devs wont have to make 5 different versions of a game. On PC there are usually four generic settings for video. When a dev makes a game for console A it could be set to medium settings, and for console B to could be set to high settings. Who is to say there will not be video adjusters in games for the consoles? One the Bioshock games had a frames lock feature.
 
Sword Of Doom said:
How would dynamic resolution work in a fighting game?
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nib95 said:
DR3 is not a fighting game?
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Sword Of Doom said:
Oh shit you're right. My bad. I thought they were trying to do dynamic resolution on Killer Instinct as well. I get them names mixed up
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Sword of Doom, you must be exhausted from the other thread.

Gir+Have+a+Cookie.jpg
 
Pimpbaa said:
It's not a fighting game but what does the genre of a game have to do with dynamic resolutions? Worked fine in Tekken Tag 2.
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I made a mistake, thought he meant Killer Instinct

And I don't understand when you would change resolution in a fighting game


edit: Thank you for the article :)

So the resolution change happens on the fly and is seamless?
 
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