By insinuating that there was a history of this in the opposite case, which really has nothing to do with the current topic being discussed.
Julianne Hough (Actress/Singer/Dancer) Blackface Halloween costume
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By insinuating that there was a history of this in the opposite case, which really has nothing to do with the current topic being discussed.
DragonSworne
Banned
For some characters their race plays an important part in their identify.
Scroll up.
Yeah, it's a part of the issue. Whenever anything with race is brought up at all in this country it has to be racism. It doesn't progress any kind of dialogue at all.
Never said it was the only issue- Racism is running rampant in this country right now especially with the Tea Party movement gaining steam.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Is that the case here? If so, tell me why.
It is not even good cosplay, she could have gotten the hair done exactly like Crazy Eyes. Shit was lazy.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say.
There is a history of demeaning blackface, there is no history of demeaning whiteface.
Or are you saying Julianne blackface wasn't blackface enough and should be left alone? You can miss me with that shit.
There's an 'okay' kind of blackface now. The unintentionally racist kind. It has to be protected against minority oversensitivity.
Basically, that's what I'm saying.
There is a historical precedence for a caricature complete with big lips and a hankerin for some watermelon.
This is not that. When someone changes their skin color for anything (cosplay in particular), it's fine. If someone does this to a dark skin, it's blackface? They are not the same thing.
It seems we have an understanding, then.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
I just want to be certain.
You're in favor for moderate, 'tasteful' blackface. I just want to be sure where you stand.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Definition of blackface:
1. Makeup for a conventionalized comic travesty of Black people, especially in a minstrel show.
2. An actor wearing such makeup in a minstrel show.
Straight from the dictionary. This is not that.
This is pretty good.
edit: wow, Maxim legitimately agreed with that.
I mean, did people even bother reading the definition of blackface?
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Ah cool people are consulting Webster again.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah. It's been covered pretty extensively in the thread.
I should probably ask: Had you read the entirety of the thread before deciding to weigh in?
Word. Why would people use the literal definition of what is being discussed?
Crazy talk.
Broder Salsa
Banned
This reminds me, wasn't this someone from GAF?
I saw the show quite recently and immediately recognised all the characters in the OP. It looks faithful to the TV show and I doubt there was any intent to hurt there. It's also not blackface.
Race is a key part of the show in general. I can't be bothered to explain why, but just google "Orange Is The New Black race" to get a feel for it - or better yet, watch the show. There have been lots of articles written - both positive and negative, about the shows approach to race and gender.
On a side note I hate it when celebrities (or anyone else, for that matter) issue these half-hearted apologies after being bullied into them. Sometimes they are indeed needed, but most of the time they just sound completely hollow. I'd like to see someone with some balls stick to their guns and say "I didn't intend to cause any offense and anyone with two brain cells to rub together could see that, it's your right to be offended and it's my right not to give a fuck. I have nothing to apologize for."
Race is a key part of the show in general. I can't be bothered to explain why, but just google "Orange Is The New Black race" to get a feel for it - or better yet, watch the show. There have been lots of articles written - both positive and negative, about the shows approach to race and gender.
On a side note I hate it when celebrities (or anyone else, for that matter) issue these half-hearted apologies after being bullied into them. Sometimes they are indeed needed, but most of the time they just sound completely hollow. I'd like to see someone with some balls stick to their guns and say "I didn't intend to cause any offense and anyone with two brain cells to rub together could see that, it's your right to be offended and it's my right not to give a fuck. I have nothing to apologize for."
Well I clearly missed something.
Any particular reason why people wish to make their own definition of a word as opposed to the actual one? Maybe there was a recent update I'm unaware of? Rebellion against dictionaries? Dictionaries are racist?
Help me.
Not really.
http://www.racebending.com/v4/featured/academy-awards-2012-putting-blackface-context/
Context is everything.
It's the reason why Robert Downey Jr.'s decision to paint his face black to portray a black
individual was seen with little criticism while people such as Julianne Hough can get such a negative reaction for doing the same thing.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
It not being the exact textbook definition does not exclude it from being offensive.
I agree that context is the issue. It was a Halloween costume, not a Minstrel Show. It was a stupid, insensitive thing to do but it was not inherently racist. Blackface (I know, that guy using the definition of the word again) is, but this was not.
Maybe it's not comparable, but what if someone were to go out in a Lionel Joseph costume?
If you're a white guy going for accuracy in the costume, you'd have to do exactly what Akroyd did and darken your face with paint. Is it still racially insensitive? More importantly, is it still harmful?
How about if it was part of a group costume and you had a black friend dressed up the same way Murphy is. Would the costume work without painting your face?
If you're a white guy going for accuracy in the costume, you'd have to do exactly what Akroyd did and darken your face with paint. Is it still racially insensitive? More importantly, is it still harmful?
How about if it was part of a group costume and you had a black friend dressed up the same way Murphy is. Would the costume work without painting your face?
akachan ningen
Member
She's just dumb, she can't help it. It's not like she was trying to be hateful.
Not what we're arguing.
By the definition of the word, this was not blackface. You'd really have to stretch to even call it an act of racism.
I agree that it was insensitive, and I could see how it could be construed as offensive. It was certainly stupid.
She was imitating a character on a TV show. What part of that is demeaning?
Maybe it's not comparable, but what if someone were to go out in a Lionel Joseph costume?
If you're a white guy going for accuracy in the costume, you'd have to do exactly what Akroyd did and darken your face with paint. Is it still racially insensitive? More importantly, is it still harmful?
How about if it was part of a group costume and you had a black friend dressed up the same way Murphy is. Would the costume work without painting your face?
But this wasn't satire or irony. It was a product of its time, and nobody would get away with it these days, much like Gene Wilder in Silver Streak.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
In a vacuum it would not be demeaning. We do not live in a vacuum.
And not much stretching would be needed to call it racist because we do not live in a vacuum.
Context goes beyond where she was, like the history of the country she's in.
Why didn't she dye her hair black, get hairpuffs or get those goofy teeth-mouthpiece things so that she can more accurately look like Crazy Eyes?
ThisWreckage
Banned
I laughed out loud. But not for the reasons you probably think. The notion that modern day whites, or anyone with lighter skin, can't don makeup because of a history they had zero part in is a ridiculous notion. The minority oversensitivity remark is what killed me because you act as if minorities are the only posters that have an issue with this. But please do continue playing the besieged minority card.
Big Baybee
Member
If you are dressing up as a character that happens to be another race, don't paint your skin. People will probably be offended.
You lack any perspective whatsoever, and needed to look up the definition of 'Blackface' to make whatever point you were trying to make. Funnily, that definition doesn't even cover the full extent of Blackface is. This is coming from someone who's had to right college papers on a subject that you think can be defined by a fucking line from a dictionary. So I'm gonna save myself some time and not knock heads with you. Go read your Thesaurus or whatever you were planning on doing.
edit: *write for those of you who can't see past typos
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
This is my first instinct as well.
But of course any kind of blackface has so much baggage associated with it
Ohh shit you had to right college papers?
Well, I guess you are the authority then. Carry on.
roosters93
Member
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The argument about her use of makeup making the race into a defining aspect of the character is a bit weird for me. Okay, lets step into a hypothetical world where changing your apparent race with makeup does not carry with it the historical cultural baggage that it does in ours: why does using makeup to darken her skin mean that she's making "race define the character" anymore then her wearing a (crappy) wig mean that she's making hair define the character, or the costume she's wearing making the clothing define the character?
In other words isn't race being only a visual thing kind of the big happy family egalitarian goal that a lot of people are interested in?
In other words isn't race being only a visual thing kind of the big happy family egalitarian goal that a lot of people are interested in?
Unlike you both, I've done extensive research on the topic.
There's a lot more to it than a Webster Dictionary definition. I never claimed any authority.
But whatever, carry on.
Now I'm playing the race card?
I love how actively and intentionally partaking good old classical racism is key part of this too. For the dozenth time, people aren't even upset at her for this. Its stupid of her. Really stupid. What's pissing people off is the defense of it and the idiotic logic behind said defense.
One of many grammatical errors in that post... But I digress. Not the point.
I don't think it's intellectually honest to argue that you can detach the meaning (or as was said earlier, context) of what blackface was and boil it down to the fact that anyone who puts on black makeup= blackface.
Necromanti
Member
I don't know if I'd call it blackface, entirely, since there's obviously a big difference between her makeup and the exaggerated lips and pitch-black face coloration of most minstrel shows. The intent is (probably) different, but it displays ignorance on her part.
In theory, I think there is nothing wrong with accurately portraying the skin color of the character one is cosplaying (if possible), just like how you would dye your hair to match the character's hair color (or maybe wear a wig), and maybe wear contacts to match their eye color. Because in the end, one's skin pigment is just a color. There's nothing inherently different from denoting a skin color from hair color.
However, she didn't dye her hair black for some reason (and made it brown), and also retained her original eye color. With that, one may wonder why she'd bother to go the skin toning route. (Probably because it was easy and lazy.)
And realistically, she should have thought of the consequences of her actions and how it would appear to others, despite her intent. People have a right to take issue with it. Skin colors do not occur in a vacuum, unfortunately, and portraying oneself in a darker skin tone has a history one needs to be aware of.
In theory, I think there is nothing wrong with accurately portraying the skin color of the character one is cosplaying (if possible), just like how you would dye your hair to match the character's hair color (or maybe wear a wig), and maybe wear contacts to match their eye color. Because in the end, one's skin pigment is just a color. There's nothing inherently different from denoting a skin color from hair color.
However, she didn't dye her hair black for some reason (and made it brown), and also retained her original eye color. With that, one may wonder why she'd bother to go the skin toning route. (Probably because it was easy and lazy.)
And realistically, she should have thought of the consequences of her actions and how it would appear to others, despite her intent. People have a right to take issue with it. Skin colors do not occur in a vacuum, unfortunately, and portraying oneself in a darker skin tone has a history one needs to be aware of.
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