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[fanboi]

Wow look at that he dressed as a black charcter without the need for painting his skin, interesting

In another thread people was saying it was racist to dress as a tribal man from africa...

So you see, it is impossible to not be racist according to some.

And that person in the image is clearly darker tone in his skin, which is matching the character he is supposed to be.

 

[Arde5643]

When the first five posts on a page are sarcastic strawman arguments, I think it's time to close the thread.

Good point.

 

[Fusebox]

A stupid answer without starting with an idiotic question - an improvement if I ever see one.

But it isn't blackface.

This is blackface:

The fact we can be on page 17 and have people still harping on about blackface doesn't bode well for productive discussion.

 

[Jak140]

Not so much the costume, more of the blackface. While she herself might not be a racist, it was quite a overt racist action considering that she's American (doesn't help she's white as well).

I understand that there is a history of blackface and that the act of darkening one's skin to portray a black person, even if it is not a gross exaggeration and the intent is to pay homage not mock, might come close enough to blackface to offend some, but I don't see how the act is inherently racist. It's obvious why blackface is racist, and why just reminding people of it might offend some people. It's not as obvious why doing something that reminds people of something that is racist should be considered racist.

 

[Ovid]

When the first five posts on a page are sarcastic strawman arguments, I think it's time to close the thread.

I'm surprised it's still open.

Circular reasoning.

 

[royalan]

I understand that there is a history of blackface and that the act of darkening one's skin to portray a black person, even if it is not a gross exaggeration and the intent is to pay homage not mock, might come close enough to blackface to offend some, but I don't see how the act is inherently racist. It's obvious why blackface is racist, and why just reminding people of it might offend some people. It's not as obvious why doing something that reminds people of something that is racist should be considered racist.

All of this.

This thread has been really depressing to read.

Good intentions all around, but a lot of people really need to look up what blackface actually was, and specifically what about it was actually offensive.

It was not the mere coloring of one's skin.

 

[junpei]

Crazy Eyes was based of a person that was not black. If the directors of OITNB can change Crazy Eyes race then the characters race wasn't a key part to begin with. You can dress up as you favorite character without having to resort to blackface .



Since everyone is posting cosplayers I thought that I post this .

I think that she looks great but some people have given her grief because she is black . Link http://www.xojane.com/issues/mad-back-cosplayer-chaka-cumberbatch

 

[Fusebox]

Legs for days...

 

[Angry Grimace]

As a black person, I'm pretty sure this isn't blackface.

Heard about it on the radio and now just saw the pic. I'm not seeing the basis for offense here. It's Halloween and it is a specific character. And it certainly is not in the racist blackface style.

The only thing that makes this offensive is the similarity to blackface-minstrel shows. In a vacuum this isn't offensive at all. I'm a little concerned at the kneejerk-ness of saying "she wore makeup that darkened her skin, it is automatically blackface."

Part of the problem here is the inability to use discretion. Whether something is actually racist should be dependent on the facts.

 

[mantidor]

Crazy Eyes was based of a person that was not black. If the directors of OITNB can change Crazy Eyes race then the characters race wasn't a key part to begin with. You can dress up as you favorite character without having to resort to blackface .



Since everyone is posting cosplayers I thought that I post this .

I think that she looks great but some people have given her grief because she is black . Link http://www.xojane.com/issues/mad-back-cosplayer-chaka-cumberbatch

Anyone who gives her shit can go die in a fire really.

The opposite would be interesting, what would happen if she uses make up to lighten her skin?, I would sadly expect people giving her shit again this time because "she is denying her race" or some other dumb stuff.

It's cosplay, and it's people who clearly are fans of these characters, I would've thought that was obvious but it unfortunately isn't the case.

 

[OfWhiteSkinOnRedLeather]

A better example would be someone appropriately using the word "niggardly" in a sentence. There's nothing inherently racist about that compared to any other word, offense would come from reminding people of racist usage by how it sounds rather than its actual meaning.

This shit actually happened back in '99:

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/01/31/opinion/liberties-niggardly-city.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/williams/williams020499.htm

Fucking ridiculous.

 

[Slayven]

How does the anti-paint team feel about this?

So black people equal a fiction alien race?

 

[Fusebox]

So black people equal a fiction alien race?

Maybe. More likely it was in reference to the "You can dress up as someone without having to paint your skin their color" suggestions and it was a thinly veiled dig at that over sensitivity. Or maybe it really was just your fictional alien race conspiracy, you can decide.

 

[Slayven]

Maybe. More likely it was in reference to the "You can dress up as someone without having to paint your skin their color" suggestions and it was a thinly veiled dig at that over sensitivity. Or maybe it really was just your fictional alien race conspiracy, you can decide.

they dressed as an alien, another species, that have distinct non human features ? Do black people have distinct non human features?

 

[Maxim726X]

they dressed as an alien, another species, that have distinct non human features ? Do black people have distinct non human features?

So this is really what it's come to, huh?

 

[inm8num2]

This thread kind of sucks.

 

[Kite]

It's like that slightly nutty co-worker who is still hung up over an ex. Don't mention her name, don't wear/mention/do anything that'll remind him of her. Treat him with kid gloves and walk on egg shells around him even though it has been over years ago. It doesn't make any sense but save yourself a ton of grief by just leaving him alone.

The actress looks like she tried to half-ass it and try to not offend anyone by going deeply tanned instead of using actually black paint but surprise surprise she still got shit on, that'll teach her. I've met beach surfer types and ganguro girl wannabes whose skin color almost match that but never mind that, remember those egg shells. Don't do it! Be this kid:

instead of this kid:

 

[Fusebox]

they dressed as an alien, another species, that have distinct non human features ? Do black people have distinct non human features?

Are you suggesting that as a rule for fancy dress people should avoid trying to recreate any distinctly human features of the person they're dressing as?

I mean, my alien comparison was silly to start with but the places you seem willing to go with that argument seem much worse in comparison.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

It's like that slightly nutty co-worker who is still hung up over an ex.

What a shitty, ignorant, condescending and offensive way to describe race relations and the history thereof in America.


Seriously, what the fuck is the matter with you?

 

[Kite]

What a shitty, ignorant, condescending and offensive way to describe race relations and the history thereof in America.


Seriously, what the fuck is the matter with you?

As a minority who isn't black or white, an outsider looking in on this farce. There is a huge difference between stamping out actual racism, both overt and hidden, and getting your undies in a twist over someone going deeply tanned in order to look like a tv character they seem to really like. For example those dead travon martin costume pics from earlier in the thread, outrage over that bs is 100% justified. The gnashing of teeth over the actress isn't. I would hope that in a sane world rational people could understand that a deep tan isn't blackface, but reality is stupid. Kid gloves, don't go near it. Thank god klingons aren't real so people can safely darken their skin and cosplay as one. No one needs to see pasty white Worfs running around.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

As a minority who isn't black or white, an outsider looking in on this farce. There is a huge difference between stamping out actual racism, both overt and hidden, and getting your undies in a twist over someone going deeply tanned in order to look like a tv character they seem to really like. For example those dead travon martin costume pics from earlier in the thread, outrage over that bs is 100% justified. The gnashing of teeth over the actress isn't.

That has fuck all to do with your first paragraph.

It's like that slightly nutty co-worker who is still hung up over an ex. Don't mention her name, don't wear/mention/do anything that'll remind him of her. Treat him with kid gloves and walk on egg shells around him even though it has been over years ago. It doesn't make any sense but save yourself a ton of grief by just leaving him alone.

What the fuck is that shit, agree or disagree with her costume, this just sounds like you have a bone to pick.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

As a minority who isn't black

...you have no right to tell people who are Black, how they should feel, no more than I would tell you how to feel about things concerning your race.

If you haven't walked in a person's shoes and all that.

 

[acrid]

What if a white person dresses as a Drow Elf? They have dark colored skin. Is it considered offensive then?

 

[royalan]

...you have no right to tell people who are Black, how they should feel, no more than I would tell you how to feel about things concerning your race.

If you haven't walked in a person's shoes and all that.

You're wasting your time.

Kite does exactly this in every thread dealing with race relations in the African American community.

 

[akira28]

What if a white person dresses as a Drow Elf? They have dark colored skin. Is it considered offensive then?

Only allow it if they're both hot and promiscuous.

 

[FyreWulff]

What if a white person dresses as a Drow Elf? They have dark colored skin. Is it considered offensive then?

Drow elves are fictional characters in addition to being fictional species.

Nobody is going to think you're in blackface because you painted your skin dark blue to be a drow elf.

 

[Stet]

What if a white person dresses as a Drow Elf? They have dark colored skin. Is it considered offensive then?

Yes, it's very offensive to Drow Elves. Are you serious?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

You're wasting your time.

Kite does exactly this in every thread dealing with race relations in the African American community.

It blows my mind.

It would be like me telling Women how to feel about controversy regarding Women's issues.

I am not a woman so I have zero authority to even begin to speak on them. I can empathize but I don't know what it feels like because...I'm not a woman.

 

[Kite]

It blows my mind.

It would be like me telling Women how to feel about controversy regarding Women's issues.

I am not a woman so I have zero authority to even begin to speak on them. I can empathize but I don't know what it feels like because...I'm not a woman.

There is a huge difference between telling women/black people how to feel on actual sexism/racism and calling out the trivial and dumb stuff like dark tan=blackface or a guy sitting down with his legs spread too wide=patriarchy. I try to never do the former and will always do the latter which annoys people I guess, oh well it needs to be said.

 

[acrid]

Yes, it's very offensive to Drow Elves. Are you serious?

Yes. It's still "Black Face" being done by a caucasian person. If a caucasian person dons black face to cosplay an african american fictional character on tv, it's racist. If they use black face to cosplay a fictional fantasy character in games and literature, it's not?

I'd say that most of Gaf knows of Drow Elves...we're just that kind of group here. But, if I went to a party dressed as one- if an African American not into the dorkier things in life saw me dressed as one, painted skin and all, would that come off as offensive?

Seriously, just curious.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Yes. It's still "Black Face" being done by a caucasian person. If a caucasian person dons black face to cosplay an african american fictional character on tv, it's racist. If they use black face to cosplay a fictional fantasy character in games and literature, it's not? Seriously, just curious.

the whole "african-american' thing is sort of key to blackface though. Blackface is painting yourself black (usually an exaggerated tar black) to mimic or parody african-americans.

 

[FyreWulff]

Yes. It's still "Black Face" being done by a caucasian person. If a caucasian person dons black face to cosplay an african american fictional character on tv, it's racist. If they use black face to cosplay a fictional fantasy character in games and literature, it's not?

I'd say that most of Gaf knows of Drow Elves...we're just that kind of group here. But, if I went to a party dressed as one- if an African American not into the dorkier things in life saw me dressed as one, painted skin and all, would that come off as offensive?

Seriously, just curious.

No, because you're dressed as an elf, not as an African American.

 

[acrid]

the whole "african-american' thing is sort of key to blackface though. Blackface is painting yourself black (usually an exaggerated tar black) to mimic or parody african-americans.

Ok, thank you. This is what I was asking. It's not so much the act of doing it, it's how it's portrayed?

 

[Kinyou]

No, because you're dressed as an elf, not as an African American.

So Mr. Popo would be okay too? He isn't human either.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Since everyone is posting cosplayers I thought that I post this .

I think that she looks great but some people have given her grief because she is black . Link http://www.xojane.com/issues/mad-back-cosplayer-chaka-cumberbatch

Shit we have idiots like that on GAF ffs.

I point to this thread about this very issue of black females in videogames which spiraled into some hilarious argument that black people can only look like black stereotypes because wait for it...black people don't have pink hair in real life. All the while naming white and asian characters with impossible hair colors, and the irony was utterly lost on them.

 

[someday]

As a black person, I'm pretty sure this isn't blackface.

Heard about it on the radio and now just saw the pic. I'm not seeing the basis for offense here. It's Halloween and it is a specific character. And it certainly is not in the racist blackface style.

Same. I see that it wasn't a smart decision on her part, and I'd talk any of my friends out of doing this, but this doesn't bother me like the Trayvon Martin fucker did.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

There is a huge difference between telling women/black people how to feel on actual sexism/racism and calling out the trivial and dumb stuff like dark tan=blackface or a guy sitting down with his legs spread too wide=patriarchy. I try to never do the former and will always do the latter which annoys people I guess, oh well it needs to be said.

LOL.

You just did the same thing again! You refer to it as trivial when, in this very thread, several people say otherwise.

Who are you to tell people that how they feel, based on their experience in society that they are "trivial and dumb"?

Maybe to a self proclaimed "outsider" it may seem that way but that doesn't make it true.

 

[soundahfekz]

I dressed up as Marty mc fly last year and not once did the thought come across that it was necessary to paint my skin white.

 

[Maxim726X]

I dressed up as Marty mc fly last year and not once did the thought come across that it ass necessary to paint my skin white.

Only if you did, no one would accuse you of being a racist.

You'd just look fucking stupid, like she did.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Only if you did, no one would accuse you of being a racist.

You'd just look fucking stupid, like she did.

Uh, most people I have read in this thread haven't called her a racist. They have said she prolly should have made different choices.

Not many people I saw posting here thought she was malicious in her intent.

 

[someday]

Also, it was unnecessary. Anyone who watched the show knew automatically who she supposed to be.

 

[Maxim726X]

Uh, most people I have read in this thread haven't called her a racist. They have said she prolly should have made different choices.

Not many people I saw posting here thought she was malicious in her intent.

There are many who are claiming just that. If she is doing blackface (which I still maintain it is not) then by definition the action was racist.

 

[soundahfekz]

Uh, most people I have read in this thread haven't called her a racist. They have said she prolly should have made different choices.

Not many people I saw posting here thought she was malicious in her intent.

Yeah not sure what his deal is. I honestly don't see malicious intent, but ignorance or lack of sound judgement in her actions.

 

[Supermanisdead]

This one is great.

who is this? it looks like literally the only character with a giant lion pelt and thick glasses from a movie......... but that guy was black. where is the paint?????

How does the anti-paint team feel about this?

this is worse than the hulk argument. look; mass effect girl = not real. black people = real.

All of this.

This thread has been really depressing to read.

Good intentions all around, but a lot of people really need to look up what blackface actually was, and specifically what about it was actually offensive.

It was not the mere coloring of one's skin.

the colouring of the skin was part of it. nobody is calling her an out-and-out racist like minstrel shows of the past. but i am uncomfortable and offended by anyone turning my race into part of their costume. it's unnecessary, it has too much baggage and it's trivializing. you can't put on or remove blackness. its as simple as that.

everyone in this thread saying it's okay. it's not. race is not a costume.

 

[Byakuya769]

How does the anti-paint team feel about this?

 

[Mr. Patch]

I had to double check to make sure I saw people comparing dressing up as fictional characters that are fictional races to... black people.

 

[roosters93]

So Mr. Popo would be okay too? He isn't human either.

I asked this earlier somewhat jokingly but don't think anyone answered. It's interesting and I'm genuinely curious what people think. As he is a fictional Japanese character that incidentally(?) looks a hell of a lot like a minstrel.

It blows my mind.

It would be like me telling Women how to feel about controversy regarding Women's issues.

I am not a woman so I have zero authority to even begin to speak on them. I can empathize but I don't know what it feels like because...I'm not a woman.

This seems like a dangerous viewpoint. If you feel like you can't even participate in such a discussion that's your problem and not reality.

 

[Maxim726X]

I had to double check

to make sure I saw people comparing dressing up as fictional characters that are fictional races to... black people.

As opposed to fictional people that happen to be black?

 

[Mr. Patch]

As opposed to fictional people that happen to be black?

Last I checked, black people exist in real life. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[J10]

I had to double check to make sure I saw people comparing dressing up as fictional characters that are fictional races to... black people.

I'm guessing they've never met either one in real life.